Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: war on stupidity

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 12, 2012, 1:12 p.m. EST by untold (24)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We need to EDUCATE. Most voters don't take the time to thoroughly research what's going on. I used to be against voting until I was reminded that having a vote is better than not having one. I'm 26 and this next election will be my first. The reason I didn't vote before was because I didn't want to waste hours of my life researching how this candidate barely differs from that candidate when actuality tells me that they both suck. I'd rather watch porn. What's the point in choosing between shit and poop when they both need flushed? The point is the idea of "choice". We DO have a choice. That is the point. But having a choice doesn't seem to matter when we have a poor selection to choose from. Imagine if we could choose from 100's of candidates that we actually could relate to. I am disgusted with our political selection as much as the next person. We need political variety. We must diversify our representation. We need a better selection. How do we do this? We must create tools that make it easier for CITIZENS to understand politics. We must make it easier for CITIZENS to get involved and organize with likeminded individuals. Let's beat these selfish mother fuckers at their own game!

A tool for EDUCATION. A tool that let's us visualize ALL the ISSUES on one screen. The tool must show all different perspectives on that issue. The first step in change is realizing that the candidates themselves do not matter; rather its the issues they represent. We must FOCUS on the ISSUES and NOT the CANDIDATES. A candidate is only as strong as the ideas he stands for. This might be a bad example… but If I stand for the idea of freedom; killing me won't kill the idea of freedom. (might be a stretch since "ideas" and "issues" aren't synonymous and freedom is more like a value rather than a stance on any issue but you get my point)

LEARN, DEBATE, ORGANIZE

GOALS- We must FOCUS on the ISSUES and NOT the CANDIDATES. 1. SMARTER VOTERS 2. BETTER LEADERS

i.e. common issues - abortion, immigration, health care i.e. uncommon issues - government design flaws, uninformed voters

We must create tools that allow NEW LEADERS to emerge. We must FOCUS on the ISSUES and NOT the CANDIDATES. Voter education and awareness must be CONVENIENT.

I have gobs of ideas for different tools that I think could help this movement and other movements.

29 Comments

29 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by ClearView (74) 2 years ago

You make some very good points here, especially that effective politics is more issue focused. When a daring politician brings up a potent topic of concern, like: "corporations are people and money is free speech????.....NOT" and all you hear in mainstream media is about the messengers foibles and not that representative democracy is at great risk, we have a breakdown in effective issue-centered dialogue. I also like the phrase "Smarter Voters, Better Leaders."

[-] 3 points by untold (24) 2 years ago

Thank you! I understand that "smarter voters, better leaders" might not address bigger issues like our dangerously stupid FED, but this is where you begin in making the most influential fundamental changes.

EDUCATION allows us to all be on the same page.

Many of us have a disproportionate understanding of what is going on. I understand this well, you understand that well. Each of us gets our information from different sources. Understanding something one way isn't enough. We must understand stuff in as many ways as possible.

There isn't just one problem. There are hundreds of them. The more issues each individual thoroughly understands, the greater likelihood that that individual can take a step back and view the bigger picture.

We must encourage seeing stuff in new ways.

DEAD/OLD THOUGHT does not work in rational debate. We must stop using words like Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism when we argue. We must use new terms.

[-] 2 points by godsbestjoke (122) 2 years ago

Selfish motherfuckers! Nicely said and I agree with what you said.

I don't have a problem with America, Americans, or the American flag. I just see an opportunity in what most folks call a problem. I like the flag. I HAVE one. It's just that I no longer want to "promise to die" for (it). I want to spend what time I DO have left pledging my allegiance to the betterment of mankind as a whole. It just seems like the right thing to do...in the long-run.

I'm not really religious, but lately I've been wondering what god might say to a person just prior to judgement who has pledged his allegiance to a symbol that represents democracy, truth and justice for only 1/20 of his most prized creation? Maybe he'd say; "Why would I just bless America?...I BLESS EVERYTHING!"

Maybe we could start thinking a bit more...just sayin'.

[-] 2 points by PandoraK (1678) 2 years ago

We speak of the issues yet we don't identify them, we (generic we) allow the politicians to present 'issues', mostly non-issues, that will achieve an emotional response.

Politics should not be about emotions, it should be about the actual issues that affect us all.

Debt, deficit, consumer issues, GNP issues. Look around, prior to WWII we were an industrial giant, today we don't even qualify as a good sized midget. Our industry has been outsourced, even much of our military hardware is made in places other than here.

We have used and abused our resources, not only for ourselves but for the world. A world that watches us now to see whether we rise or fall. A world that fears because our tentacles reach every where.

We can no longer afford to allow politics and politicians to present issues to us, but rather to accept and react to the issues we present them.

Birth control, abortion, 10 year olds cleaning toilets are all smoke screen, diversions.

Issues, campaign finance reform, Glass/Steagal reinstated, a real jobs program, let's put our infrastructure back together.

[-] 2 points by shield (222) 2 years ago

There has been such focus on presidential elections that many people seem to think that increased awareness of who the candidates are and what they stand for will CHANGE who those candidates are and what they stand for. It is my opinion, however, that it is much more important to know who your senators are and what THEY stand for, since most of the time they are the ones who will be writing the laws. Even more important than that is understanding the law and the history of this country. For even if you find yourself being persecuted by an unlawful act of congress (and there are MANY such acts), you can do nothing to defend yourself unless you know the law. Sure, you could hire an attourney to represent you (lol) but you'll end up likely paying more than a year's wages in order to afford it and they can't do as much as you can do to represent yourself. The early Americans made it their business to learn the law because they knew full well what would happen to them if they weren't able to defend themselves in court. The law was their only defense against tyranny. The same is true today. Funny that people think that senators and presidents will protect their rights when such people are the ones who have been trampling them for over a century. It is up to each and every one of us to take responsibility for our own lives. There is a worldwide war going on. It has been going on since the beginning of time. One day I woke up and thought: "When did world peace descend on this planet...?" I realized that my only defense against the largest criminal organizations in the world was their own laws, which even they must follow.

[-] 1 points by untold (24) 2 years ago

"it is much more important to know who your senators are and what THEY stand for, since most of the time they are the ones who will be writing the laws."

"I realized that my only defense against the largest criminal organizations in the world was their own laws, which even they must follow."

well put.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

A tool for EDUCATION. A tool that let's us visualize ALL the ISSUES on one screen.

I agree ... the information is out there... it's in the Blogs and in the non-bought media sites... I believe the tool we are looking for is a people driven index to the data... validating content & building consensus as it goes...

think about this.... how many of the same statements are made here.. just on this site... which are dis-proved as false.... over and over again .... a validating index ... could immediately link to the dis-qualifying data...

I have imo one in the works... whether it ever get's finished ... who knows... but I believe it is close

[-] 2 points by untold (24) 2 years ago

i like the idea of a tool that helps you discover the issues and see the issues from a variety of different perspectives.

realistically, when it comes time for the average citizen to choose between this person and that person... the average person doesn't do the research. the information is out there, but there is an art to finding it AND understanding it. we have to eliminate this time-consuming task. i want to be able to instantly compare/contrast viewpoints on different issues with Obama, Romney, Ron Paul, my buddy down the road, my mayor, the governor, me, the governator, etc.

[-] 1 points by votersway (15) 2 years ago

You're right, voter education and organization are very important.

votersway.com

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the issue will be easier to discuss if they are not associated with a particular party

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

Why do we have to choose? Why is our first reaction to line up behind some leader? Are we sheep?

The first order of business is to change this propensity that we have for finding someone else to make decisions for us, tell us what to do, and force their will on us. Why are we willing to risk our lives to leaders that we have never met, know nothing about, have dubious motives, and more often than not turn out to be inept.

The question is not how do we select better leaders, the question is how do we reduce our dependence on them so that we can do without them.

[-] 2 points by untold (24) 2 years ago

being uneducated makes us sheep does it not?

i was never saying we should have to choose. i'm emphasizing the importance of having a choice. i agree with you in that our choices SUCK.

we need to create a leader-incubator. i feel as if that's what occupy essentially should strive to be.

imagine if congress was filled with open-minded creative problem-solvers. imagine if congressmen were better educated and made decisions for US and not THEM.

would we be here doing this?

even though i referred to them as "leaders", i would hardly consider them "leaders". they are occupying an institution that plays a leadership role in our society. ideally, they would be leaders. money is their leader, not rationality. incumbents are sheepier than any citizen. the idea of there not being leaders is silly. we need better leaders. being a sheep isn't bad when your leaders are the shit. martin luther king jr. makes all of us a sheep and that my friend is a great thing.

[-] 2 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

Martin Luther was a hero.

If we all had 1/10 of his courage and humanity our problems would be over.

[-] 1 points by untold (24) 2 years ago

no doubt he was a total bad ass.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by ironboltbruce (371) from Miami, FL 2 years ago

If you search Reddit Politics for "NDAA" or "National Defense Authorization Act", why doesn't this show up?

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/pm1i6/national_defense_authorization_act_protest/

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by FreeDiscussion4 (70) 2 years ago

The majority of media, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, AP, NPR, NY Times, Washington Post, Boston, Chi Tribune, LA Times, etc and etc and etc,,, ALL lean left. Yet the highest rated news organization is Fox News and only there,,, with the majority,,, do you get the best balanced news coverage to make a decision.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (17837) 2 years ago

"... ALL lean left." ?!!! WTF ?!! ab absurdum ?!

[-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion4 (70) 2 years ago

All the liberals LOVE the left media. ALL the liberals HATE Fox. I guess you can put that on any graph paper you have. ?!!! do fus

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (17837) 2 years ago

See : "ELITE PROPAGANDA ; The Myth of the Liberal Media The Propaganda Model of News" ; http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6435.htm .

Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky demolish one of the central tenets of our political culture, the idea of the "liberal media." Instead, utilizing a systematic model based on massive empirical research, they reveal the manner in which the news media are so subordinated to corporate and conservative interests that their function can only be described as that of "elite propaganda."

ad iudicium...

[-] 1 points by untold (24) 2 years ago

The most influential media organizations are mainstream. Mainstream media is very selective as to what it airs. I don't look for them to TEACH anything. They are socially irresponsible in that RATINGS dictate their industry rather than EDUCATING.

When you look at the media's role in our society over time, the internet is the true game changer. The internet is an awareness revolution. It's given rise to social media.

MASS MEDIA VS. SOCIAL MEDIA

MASS MEDIA - newspapers, radio, and television In mass media, the flow of information is TOP DOWN. mass media = few senders, millions of receivers

SOCIAL MEDIA - facebook, twitter in social media, the flow of information is BOTTOM UP. social media = millions of senders, millions of receivers

The internet gave rise to social media. The internet has heightened our understanding and increased our awareness. My grandma gets ZERO of her information from the internet. Millions of older people are completely unaware of the worlds that exist on the internet. Different information circulates in mainstream media.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

yeah all of them except one are full o shit ... hehehehe ... maybe because Fox News is willing to make up bullshit ... to get their ratings ... entertainment TV ....

and actually for the record ....Jon Stewart’s Ratings Are Now Higher Than All Of Fox News ...

http://www.politicususa.com/en/jon-stewart-fox-ratings

[-] -1 points by FreeDiscussion4 (70) 2 years ago

Jon Stewart's rating are higher,,,,, WOW,,,, that is GREAT NEWS. SO now I would assume you and others knowing Stewart is giving the news out that you will not have a need to put Fox News down since they are not a threat. THANK YOU BradB for setting the news straight. NO NEED TO BASH FOX NEWS... Good news. Lets move on according to Brad

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Good news. Lets move on according to Brad ... Cool ... I Agree .. ;)

btw , even in the mist of all Stewart's Jokes there is still more truth that comes out of his broadcasts than all of fox news....

[-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion4 (70) 2 years ago

Why did you need to comment about fox news at the end of your comments? They are a NOTHING,,, according to YOU now. There is NO need to put fox news down because you said they were already down. Move on BradB,,,,, move on.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

ok.... ;) but before I leave ... what do you think of .politifact.com ? just wondering ;)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/rulings/false/

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

meh

facts would be more interesting

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

oh ... I agree ... but if you click on the links and follow the articles ... and think you might find some validation... but I agree .. there is some entertainment in the mix

[-] 0 points by FreeDiscussion4 (70) 2 years ago

I know nothing about politifact.com until Jon Stewart recommends it.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hehe