Forum Post: War Criminals Indicted
Posted 11 years ago on June 30, 2013, 11:10 a.m. EST by TikiJ
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Maybe this post string is the right place for this post. Not sure if it will be seen on Egypt string. Call it a 200 Year Revolution that is a work in Progress.
Seems people Protest around the world Against Government or Rulers that always sell out the people for things like:
1) Keeping the Military, Intelligence, and Security Apparatus going, keeping up budgets for these military institutions, and for keeping people with careers in military institutions in good jobs, in a kind of power structure, and to promote conservative or right wing agendas ... like the Cold War, the Fight Against Communism, the War on Drugs, the War on Terrorism, the promotion of fear against liberalism....
2) Control over the people, control over Wages & Benefits, control over economics and Resources, and control of Religion & politics.
3) Control over Crony Insider Deals within a Capitalist System or Totalitarian System.
4) Relationships with the USA, Funding from the USA, Weapons & Training from the USA, Resources from the USA, and Access to other important Power Players through US Representatives.
But I think this 200 years of Revolution is still going after the same basic things:
A) Economic Freedom, Affordable Food.
B) Education & Health Care.
C) Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Press, Freedom of Religion, Liberty, Democratic Governments free from monarchies and Oligarchies, Freedom from Corrupt Institutions & Universities, Privacy....
D) Individual, Civil, and Human Rights, Justice, Freedom from Torture, False Wars, Secret Police, Secret Prisons, Extraordinary Rendition, the rights to speedy trial and Due Process, the Right to an Attorney, Freedom from police brutality or excessive police charges for taking pictures of public officials and public places or just for protesting or gathering... freedom from being tazzered for a traffic stop or ... tear gassed for protesting peacefully.
E) Freedom from a Stasi Style Police State with constant surveillance, huge institutions that store & share all data that can be recorded and kept about it's citizens ... Clearly creating a risk, a grave risk of Public Officials and Judges for being "Blackmailed" by anyone of a million people which have access to the data.
F) Freedom from Corporations with power or Oligarchs from using information gathered by government organizations to "Compete" with smaller businesses or foreign competitors.
G) Freedom from Connected Corporations or Oligarchs from sending people to Jail, to work in prisons, to fill contractor prison quotes for total inmates ... or just misusing the power of information for personal gain or entertainment.
H) Freedom from a Society that lock people up for Laws simply because the laws exist ... without questioning if the laws are Just or constitutional... i.e. marijuana cigarettes, adultery, sodomy, witchcraft, Wicca, Islam, Christianity.
J) Freedom to live in a society that recognizes that money must flow in the economy to provide opportunity for common people to grow. If there is little money flowing to the common people then the government must act to divert or create money that will go to the adults that live in the society.
K) Freedom from banks that won't spend money in the economy in bad times, Freedom from Corporations that can never be patriotic or take care of communities, Freedom from Economic Hoarders who take money out of the Economy (National System) while disallowing tax increases on the highest tax brackets or those entities that disassemble economic businesses and cause higher expenses to be paid by social safety net funds and by society. Hiding Wages in Trust Funds to Defer Taxes, Hiding Wages in an Off-shore bank account to avoid taxes, getting special Tax Rate for being a Hedge Fund Manager, Using Lobbying to Create Special Loopholes, Using Accountants and Lawyers to create "Shell Companies" to hide transactions, earning, financial health, get tax breaks, and "Game" the system....
L) Freedom from Governments or Rulers who refuse to even measure the economic trends, financial loses, disease, the cost of health care, the cost of education, and the cost federal defense, intelligence, and security apparatuses and foreign wars.
Well written and comprehensive.
Thanx. Hope to get peoples creative juices flowing... Sometimes it seems like a creative process that feels good when I look at things different and write them down.
Funny - that is the length of time most civilizations/governments can not get past - 200 years or sometime just before and - CRUMBLE.
Something to do with forgetting about the well being of the general population.
I agree. Only think how many civilizations we don't even know about since they were minor ones without books in our libraries.
Some civilizations carve laws into stone. I think they were on to something there. The Persian Culture, Classical Period of Greece, Rome, Carthage, Assyrians, Sumerians, ... seem to have done better than we have. Even Venice had a longer period of success.
Yes - think how long civilizations lasted prior to being discovered by other civilizations - like in the impenetrable Congo or in the vast Amazon basin. Hell - I do not know the truth of this story - But - about twenty or thirty years ago there was said to have been a tribe of aboriginal people discovered for the 1st time in the USA - somewhere around eastern California - I think - I would have to look for the story - but it was a sensation at the time. Hard to believe it could be true when one considers how long the USA has been extensively settled and the lack of follow-up stories on it all. But??? is it completely impossible? There are places that people rarely go.
There was a movie called "Last of the Dogmen" with Tom Berringer. And there was an old store about Shangri-La in Tibet (movie about this also). In Ecuador or Peru Indians brought a priest old artifacts from a hidden cache un the mountains where the hid their sacred relics from the Spanish or Inca or both.
There is a point to be made about hidden history, relics, artifacts, ruins, ruins in the ocean or Black Sea, and... new species still to be cataloged and discovered all over the world... I think there were pigmies in Malaysia that were 3 foot tall.
So much is unknown - above ground below ground - below the oceans - lakes and lochs too.
As above, so below.
Well - depends on the above - we do not know all there is to know here - and there are plenty who want to just chuck it to explore that upper - outside of the atmosphere. People always in a hurry to get somewhere that they miss what is right next to them. Hey?
Perhaps the metaphor for the Elite is worth exploring. What do the Elite see or think of the Truth above ground or below ground.
Personally, I suspect that the Elite and the monarchies have moved earth and heavens to capture history and historical artifacts for themselves.
It seems reasonable in the face of capitalism and monarchy and even monotheism .... that the Vatican, Royalty, and old Rich Families would steal history for personal archives. Remember that the English often would have mummy parties in which they would unwrap a mummy in England for a social event...??
Those in power Historically have always sought to capture technology and artifacts. Well, that and destroying cultures and people as the Romans did. Burn the Libraries they said. And the Spanish, English, French, and Portuguese killed people for their gold while destroying their culture and history. Missions from the Vatican worked the same way it seems.... Gold is power in the old world. But as it was in the past, so is it today.
There must be many old families that know that old cities lay under the seas and under the dust of Mesopotamia. There have been probably at least 2000 years of powers searching the world for technology ... just as the Nazis did. Because History is not yet known or is not yet being spread through education. Most of the world is made up of commoners, of course...
Why give away competitive edges to commoners... if it can help you make better deals, more advantageous deals, or create monopolies. And really if you can convince political powers that you have old knowledge and older technology ... then you may build relationships with all political players through many generations.
Convincing others is political power. Building Relationships is political power. Establishing relationships in the government or political class is political power. Being an Investment banker is political power. Being able to draw military powers, military officers, and Defense Department Offices to you for Money and Funding is Political Power. Being able to draw Foreign Officials to you for Funding is Political Power.
These things we hold as Self-Evident. But it is opposed by the knowledge that all people are created Equal.
Elite - wealthy - royalty - etc adnauseum = assholes that think they are the next best thing to god. Though if they were to pay attention to their exemplar ( the bible ) they would find that they are supposed to love - guide - uplift. Not steal from degrade push face 1st into the mud or otherwise abuse.
I know what you are saying here. I doubt that God or Religion plays a strong part of the life of the rich. Sure, the kids are taught with lots of tutors and special schools... and at some point they are ready for accounting and money management.... Obviously I am making this up since I am not from a wealthy family.
Money is all consuming... and the risk to a family from mismanagement and loss of networking, relationships and contracts could destroy a whole family fortune.
Countries, Cultures, Economies, Commodities, Currency, ...they all are more important than national sports teams. To the .1% anyway. It is just like Royalty. In fact I think the .1% think they are Royalty that is unrecognized.
Yeah, They think they are Royalty. And you can trace some of their family names in the US Government back to Mesopotamia. You can trace our Government Officials back in time to old Europe. They just want control, always social control, depression of the common wages, multiple class systems, suppression of any discussion of the class system, ... and careers and self promotion.
Nuf Said...
Late Add: Of course World Government Workers tent to educated and conservative. This is further evidence of the Control being enacted. Of course the surveys of Government workers don't come out as slanted to the right or as conservative so much since they have already looked at this as a bad revelation... they fixed this somehow.
But as Executives we would indoctrinate our work force and staff to be conservative and to hold conservative principals.
Fine. Conservative Principals in Accounting, Finance, Congress, Politics, and Law... all make sense. But we are a Revolution based on Liberalism... or Social Liberalism. We want to be free of Monarchies and Totalitarian Governments... and we want social safety networks in government. We want help with poverty, K-12 Education, Health Care, Medicare, and Social Security,... as well as maybe affordable Education Loans for College and Unemployment Insurance.
A definite truism spoken about in that inspired writing - "more likely a camel should pass through the eye of a needle than a wealthy man should enter heaven". Funny - Hey?
Worse people are willing to give them that status. Not are willing - they give them that status. UnF'nbelievable.
DAMN - BIG F'n DEAL - we "all" trace back to the beginning of life.
Absolutely - it is not that progress can not be made - that is not conservative - conservative is cautious - NOT dead in the water.
And progressive is not irresponsible - it is looking to continually grow to continually be better then we are today.
Conservative and Progress can and should be complimentary.
Yin and Yang anyone? Balance damn it. BALANCE.
Conservative and Progress can and should be complimentary. -EXACTLY. I think this is how Europeans or Germans see Progressive Ideas.
And progressive is not irresponsible - it is looking to continually grow to continually be better then we are today. - I'm totally with you on this point... and it is an easy point THAT Most Americans should be able to "GET".
I also agree that in the USA Citizens grovel and lose their minds when they are in front of an Executive.
OOOO look a person who has money - do you think they shit gold? - I bet they do - oh OH look look LOOKY - he dropped a cigaret butt - quick grab it before someone else does - gosh just think a rich person souvenir - think it will bring us luck - OH gosh I think I just wet myself.
I guess there is a better word for this. Obsequiousness. 1. sycophantic, flattering. 2. cringing, submissive. See servile. Well maybe Sycophant is the word.
American's are so hungry for a career, so hungry for higher wages, so fixated on getting ahead, so competitive with their family, friends, and peers on the values for higher wages...
Money makes people keep their nose to the grind stone, trust their leaders even when they don't get told the full picture or political powers involved... why don't we ask about the political plays involved in a plan, a national strategy, a national Solution, an Act of Congress like Immigration....
Why don't American's care who the Lobbyist are, what they are saying, and who the Power Players are, and what their interests are.
But I might as well ask... why American's don't demand Transparency?
Apparently we haven't evolved to that point, ...or perhaps we have retreated from that point after being tired of the Cold War, the 50 years of constant Cold War Footing, ... or some other stress that we got tired from.
Why don't we demand Transparency for every big spending bill or Washington Fear based War Footing? War on Terror??? War with Iraq???
Because most Americans believe they are benefiting from the Defense Spending, the War Spending (remember the old economic myth that the economy benefited from War?), .... Americans even believe they are benefiting from the Tax System with loop holes for Investments, for owning homes, for working within the government to get the pensions, for working in Emergency Services or the Military to get those benefits & retirements, ... for getting union benefits somewhere in our country....
Why don't we demand Transparency? Because we have been sold a part of the System where we think we can get ahead, get a job or hold a career, where our sons or daughters can get careers, where we can go to college for a degree that will give us a big boost in life and a career.... and on and on.
Help me fill in some blanks here...
Older Americans joined the system, tolerated the Cold War, Tolerated the start of the War on Terrorism, ... then losing their career and pension and Retirement benefits... they were already Brain Washed in the system. They had decided 20 years earlier that they were not protestors. They were the type to go along to get along... trusting that they could use brains or brawn to prove themselves and become successful.
This above would indicate a longer horizon for any OWS Activism... more like 20 years of effort in the Public Eye.
But clearly the Propaganda Mill is working to convince people that Social Security was intended for only people over 65+ and intended only for those that didn't die early... say for 5 years average on Social Security total till death. The propaganda is that no one in America Deserves Retirement. The propaganda is that no one can expect retirement. The propaganda says that Social Liberalism was always a Ponzi Scheme. This is happening today.
Classic Liberalism is Austerity. The Neoliberals are hard at work in my area of the country. You are only free to work for a big organization or to start your own business... this is freedom from monarch and Tyranny. But of course many people don't start from an equal playing field... they have the property rights, mineral rights, farm land, and wealthy family roots.
As to your comment below ( no reply button ). It has been a concerted effort by business and by government to brain wash or otherwise condition the population - to #1 be bored by government ( oh hell that stuff puts me to sleep what do you think of-----nice hair charming - - - lets vote for him and we can be done with it till the next cycle ) #2 Be shallow and to want glitz glamor and possessions - to hell with marriage as there are way to many pretty people for me to fuck to want ta get married - besides if ya get married ( and you know damn well that it is not going to last ) then when you get divorced you get taken to the cleaners - Nah best to forget about all that noise and concentrate on making big bucks fast so I can get more things and chase more women in expensive places......... shit now if we could get government to deregulate business - we could make a real killing - damn government restrictions anyway....
[ what is really scary - is there are people who think this way - the programming was very suck-cess-(pool)ful ]
Yes, Brain Washed to Consume and to take on debt... Dazzled with Advertisements... and Controlled by the Research on Brain Washing. Sex really Sells. Be young. Look Young. Live a Young Lifestyle. Be Sexy at all costs.
I'll bet your thinking about this story here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_His_Tribe
Well, there a few Last of the Mohicans stories. If you meet a Steel worker.. chances are he has a last of the Mohican Buddy. I meet one in the Detroit Area... no clue if he was Aboriginal. But I guess the Daniel Day Lewis movie doesn't apply here.
Just saw a movie where the Nez Perce were the last free Indians in 1877 when the decided to fight the US Army which was ordered to take them off the reservation somewhere in Oregon... so the decided to fight, and headed toward the Bitter Root Valley and Canada.
But passionate people can be found later in history as the Mexicans crossed the US Border after the 20th Century I guess.
When I grew up all this info was out of reach. The internet is so much better... perhaps we will have a US Awakening in this next 10 years....???!!!
It's a shame so much of history has been lost that way. Tribes with no written language that have passed into history. Who knows what knowledge has been lost?
And I gotta agree. The net is a pretty amazing resource. I remember as a kid trying to find info about some obscure subject and not being able to find a damn thing, even at the library. Now, its just a few clicks away. Amazing.
Would it surprise you that the Hmong ( out of Cambodia ) had no written language until after the Vietnam War?
Hell, why start now, heheheh?
If it were my choice? Well not really - just think of lost history dependent on verbal memory story telling - ooops died before my apprentice learned it all.
Yeah, the amount of lost knowledge must be staggering. I was watching a show once and they had this glass vessel from either the Romans or the Egyptians, I believe, two or three different colored layers and some intricate cutting involved that they still can't figure out how it was done. An amazing piece of glassware, made with a lost technique.
Imagine all of the lost knowledge that is to be rediscovered - will it - be rediscovered? - think of the natural sciences prior to machine technology. A whole different frame of thought. A whole different direction of research. Natural - of nature.
Yeah. So much will probably never be rediscovered. The burned libraries like Alexandria. I think Alexandria burned three or four times. The thousands of Mayan books burned by the Spanish. I think there's only a handful of authentic Mayan books left. Out of thousands.
"Now I'm off to la-la land." - Me 2
"See you tomorrow night" - Ditto
PEOPLE :
GREED = The #1 Cause of Disease Death and Destruction - IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD.
Disregard that fact at your own peril!
Agreed.
Now I'm off to la-la land.
See you tomorrow night, DK.
As I Keep Trying to educate the public as well as the charities as well as the American cancer society - remove the crap from our environment and food and they will make a huge step forward in reducing the incidence of illness while they work on finding cures.
But hell that seems to fly in the face of for profit health care ( medicine? )
Exactly. It's all about the profits. That's why it's going to be an uphill battle to clean all this shit up. I don't think they want people living longer anyway. Hell, Gates admitted in one of his Ted talks his vaccination program is really about population reduction, so we have some very powerful people aligned against our interests.
Not so funny when you think of the fact that business/industry is fucking us up - shit in the air shit in the water shit added to the food - all of it fucking up our health in one way or another - Yeah IQ is being slaughtered.
IQ and life expectancy both. I'll bet the drop in both is tied to the same things. The shit in the water, air and food.
Just imagine the Library of Alexandria - if it had never been sacked and burned - what amazing knowledge was there? People are not smarter more intelligent today then back then - the difference is in the direction intelligence took.
Yep, according to that doc that shadz linked a week ago, 'Surviving Progress,' our brain basically is the same as it's been for 50,000 years. So, we're definitely not smarter than ancient man. Hell, I just read recently we might have lost some IQ points in the last decade or two. Intelligence might have already peeked, heheh. And the way things are going, maybe life expectancy as well:
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2012/09/doctors-warned-life-expectancy-could-go-down-and-it-did/
It's all downhill from here buddy! heheheh.
I don't think so - ( I could be mistaken - i once thought I was wrong but ....) unless the story was loosely based on actual events - as the undiscovered ummm newly discovered was a tribe - not an individual.
That wiki link is a story based on actual events. Don't remember all the details but he was a member of a lost tribe that wandered out of the forest one day. I think he was able to lead anthropologists back to the location of his village, but I don't think anyone was alive there.
But then you could be thinking about a different story entirely.
I am thinking of a story reporting a tribe that purposely hid from the outside world and lived as they had always lived - their fear was of being discovered and made to change. So they knew about us - but did not want us to know about them. If I am rememberizing correctly - the 1st notice of them came by a satellite mapping discovery.
Interesting. Completely different story then. I wouldn't mind reading a little about that.
Took a quick look but this is the only thing I found so far - and it is not the story I remember - the one I am thinking about came out in like the 80's.
Newly-released photos of uncontacted Amazon Indian tribe give us a ... photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/02/01/5965571-newly-released...
Newly-released photos of uncontacted Amazon Indian tribe give us a glimpse ... boring out in the middle of a ... in these United States of America.
That's a shame, man. Illegal logging might wind up being responsible for wiping out one of the last unknown tribes on the planet. Where will it end?
Do you believe in inspired writing - fore-sight - premonition?
I believe there's a possibility that premonitions exist, yes.
Do not laugh - please - I have had more then one experience of foresight - some might call it dejavu - but a couple experiences I had was a viewing of a future experience that I would have. Another experience I had was in grade school - I all of a sudden tuned into my teacher and one of my class mates in the front row - I said word for word including tone and inflection and timing every word they said back and forth for like 5 minutes just prior to them speaking - a girl sitting next to me heard it all - her eyes were as big as saucers by the end of the conversation. I have always believed that we could tap into a collective consciousness.
Cool story, and no I wouldn't laugh. I don't doubt it a bit.
Absolutely - for one thing medical science is still in it's infancy - WWI was still the dark ages of medicine. ( modern day medicine - no telling what was destroyed previously - like in Alexandria ). Take that into consideration - then add on the stigma of being identified as less then perfect - MY GOD WEAK - and the fact that guys were raised to deny that as well as to despise that and - well - shit - like 50% of the population self medicating ( can you say alcoholic? ) as they were not about to out themselves as being weak/human - Not A Man. Oh Hell No.
Really is a sad thing when one can easily relate to having an off life - Hey? Even if I was never understood without intense thought - I would prefer to be a rare case rather then common and wide spread.
It's probably more common than we'd like to believe.
Off Day????????????
I have an off life.
I think medical marijuana would be helpful - for many. {;-])
Sorry - whining.
An off-life, heheh. I can definitely relate to that statement.
To follow-up on your kind acceptance of my story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6AJUvr183E
You are exceedingly kind.
Well, I try to be. Sometimes I have an off day. ;-)
Like I say - it hit the news about 20 or 30 years ago. Probably should be able to find a mention one way or another = hoax or truth - by doing a quick search - I never did look into it - I just remember the story.
Yeah, it should be fairly easy to find somewhere on the web, I would think.
I have yet to find any reference.
Nah, don't worry about it. If I get around to it, I'll do some searching. No reason for you to do my legwork.
I found this - but it is not a whole hell of a lot of help - check it out:
California tribes - Native Americans www.aaanativearts.com/tribes-by-states/california_tribes.htm
Tolowa-Tututni Tribe (California ... Letter of Intent to Petition 04/28/1980; ... They were historically located in the drainage area of Pit River from near ...
"You know how it is."
Yes - Yes I do - and if you find something I expect that you will educate me.
I most certainly will.
Well now that it comes to mind - I am very curious as to what the final wrap-up was. I mean undiscovered/uncontacted into the late 1900's - in the USA? That is just wild - and I would have followed-up on it at the time - except I had no life - I was working 12 to 16 hours a day up to 7 days a week. Now this conversation has reminded me of the story - and I am exceedingly curious.
If you do find something about it, don't hesitate to send me a link. There's a fair chance I'll be distracted by other things and might never get around to it. You know how it is.
Most critical issue. Without justice regarding 9/11, the world will continue to sink into Hell.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/massive-911-billboard-coming-to-times-square/#comment-982606
Meanwhile, in more recent news:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THlaMUq6MKU
Regarding justice and a free world, All Roads Lead To 9/11.
just got some tab wanting to talk about privacy
pretty obnoxious
I think they need to add Stephen Cambone to the list.