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Forum Post: Wall Street Frat Mocks Occupy Wall Street

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 8, 2012, 6:03 p.m. EST by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

108 Comments

108 Comments


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[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (26055) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep.

Put downs by the corrupt/greedy.

This is their tactic. Because they have no real defense.

They try to belittle us.

They try to break our spirit with stupid put downs.

They try to tell the public that we are whining children throwing a tantrum.

Mud slinging to try to smear our relevance.

Too bad for them, as we are not going away. nor are we huddled and broken by their insults and put downs. We are not children on the playground being picked on by bullies. We are adults in the real world being beset-upon by corruption. As adults we are fighting for truth and are standing up against corruption.

All we need to do is to keep doing as we have and as we are. Educating the public, promoting awareness, pointing out crimes and criminals, and demanding change. We are in the right with legal protest, and it is starting to make difference.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by tomahawk99 (-26) 2 years ago

denial is the 1st step of grief. The movement is dead. Had some good ideas, but was blown with the occupy stuff.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26055) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Typical blind marcher rhetoric.

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the US could stop dropping bombs today

[-] 0 points by tomahawk99 (-26) 2 years ago

dropping bombs, you mean on the islamofascist terrorist?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

is that the other frat ?

[-] 0 points by tomahawk99 (-26) 2 years ago

you don't make any sense. adios

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

Thank you for this great video, BradB. If any of us ever forget why we are here, watch this video!

Occupy Wall Street!

[-] 2 points by EconomicCrack (22) 2 years ago

Well, this forum tolerates stalkers, psycho freaks, but don't you dare try to network resources for the movement on here. Maybe the movement needs a little poking to weed out the kids from the activists.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Man...now that guy flat-out told it like it is!!! He should get an award for that.

[-] 1 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

man, this might be a good video but I can't get past a couple of minutes of that host with his "hand quotes" and mannerisms..........a bit tough to watch. What was it about?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

er

thanks for the support

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 2 years ago

That wasn't nearly as bad as I expected.

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

This entire rant is based on a script read by Cenk Uygur. Why would anyone that mistrusts corporations and the Gov lack the same skepticism when it comes to a completely un-corroborated and un-vetted YouTube video?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

There is a concept call "does it ring true" this rings true.

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

We should require more facts before we make judgments about a whole group of people. Particularly if we already have a bias towards that particular group, race, religion, gender, or other thing that makes them somehow different than we are.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Not a whole group, just the silver spoon jackals that were born on the top of the mountain and stand around slapping each other on the backs talking about what great climbers they are.

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

People are not equal. Some people are smarter, stronger, taller, shorter, born to rich parents, or born in a slum. That's just a fact.

Because we are not equal and are free to pursue self interest there will be un-equal wealth and un-equal influence in Gov and other institutions like Universities.

So what can we do about this?

Solution 1: Give the Gov power to force equality. The price of this is freedom.

Solution 2: Minimize the effect that these institutions can have on our lives. The price that we pay for this is security.

As Ben Franklin put it: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

Right now we seem to settle for a bit of both solutions, however of late we favor what is behind door number 1.

BTW People born poor have one advantage over those born with the silver spoon: the latter will never know the joy and accomplishment of climbing out of the slum.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Are you kidding me, you look around and you call this equality? Solution 1? If you think it builds good moral charter in our job creators to stand around and poke fun at those not so fortunate in their birth, then we just disagree.

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

People are not equal. That is the point.

The question is what if anything is to be done about it?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

equal oppertunity to the extent possible, the same quality schools for everyone, collage for free, for those who qualify, with grades, strengten unions, we could do a lot better than we are

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

If you let the Gov force people to be equal you will give up your liberty.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

There's nothing in my statement that "forces" anyone to do anything

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

How do you achieve "college for free" if you don't force someone else to pay for it? How do you strengthen unions if you don't force people to use union labor (like public schools in the US for which we are among the top three in the world for education cost per student, but rank 27th in Science and Math; a national embarrassment)?

I agree that we can always do better. We must strive for excellence. The Gov however is the antithesis of excellence. They are the champions of mediocrity. Move everything that we can as fast as we can into the free market.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Of course people have to pay taxes if we’re going to have a country, taxes should be determined by the people to pay for what the people decide to do (it’s wrong to pass on debt). I’d like America to be the kind of place people are proud to pay their taxes and to be Americans, but I got a clue for you if your not paying taxes here you will be somewhere, just the cost of having roads, ect.

Only corporations should be “forced” to use union labor, but no one should be forced to be a corporation.

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

BTW this nation survived for 137 years before the Constitution was amended to include a Federal Income Tax; and it was supposed to be voluntary.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I agree about getting rid of the income tax and replacing it with a property tax, all froms of property. BTW when did we start this crazy "standing army" thing if we got rid of that we could pay off the debt I would think.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

Only about 15% of the federal budget is spent on defense ($ 550 billion). Our national debt is $15 Trillion. 30 times the defense budget. The largest expense by far, 60 % or about 2 Trillion dollars, is spent taking money from one group of people and giving to another group in the form of CHIP, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Education, Federal worker retirement benefits, and other social programs.

Now before you get all excited about Social Security and Medicare they are not paid for by the people that are taking money out. In fact people take out on average twice what they put in to the system.

The real crime is that our inept Gov only manages to give $ 0.27 on the dollar to welfare recipients when a typical charity gives $ 0.90. $ 0.27 on the dollar, not only is that a disgrace it's immoral. And you want to give them more money? Don't throw good money after bad. Let the people keep their money and use it wisely for good purposes.

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

We sadly accept an inept Gov that only manages to give $ 0.27 on the dollar to welfare recipients when a typical charity gives $ 0.90. If the Gov could reach that level of excellence I would support it. $ 0.27 on the dollar, not only is that a disgrace it's immoral. And you want to give them more money? Don't throw good money after bad. Let the people keep their money and use it wisely for good purposes.

Corporations are just a group of people that join together in order to achieve some great thing. Like Google, or Apple, or the Church of Latter Day Saints (Yes, they are incorporated). The good news is that if a corporation does a lousy job competitors eat their lunch and they go out of business. Government, on the other hand, can go on day after day producing the same crappy product, charge outrageous prices, deliver poor service, and continue in business forever.

If a corp executive steals there is a chance he will go to jail, if a Gov executive steals he gets the Kennedy medal.

All democracies are doomed once the people discover that they can vote themselves largess.

  • de Tocqueville
[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The government gets 93 cents out of every dollar taken in out to the provider for healthcare, while the private sector gets about 67 cents to the providers, you've made a great case for socialized healthcare. We spend a lot more on healthcare than we do welfare so fixing this first is an even better idea.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

start a thread

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Of course many people would prefer monarchy, the Republican Party works tirelessly day and night to fully restore inherited power and wealth. The elitist have always feared democracy; you seem familiar with early American history so you know this,

I know what corporations are they are collective capital power and as long as they negotiate with collective labor then we got a chance of keeping things sort of fair, of course the corporation will always have the advantage because it is easier to sell a share than quit a job but as long as every corporate job is a union job then we might have a chance.

Corporate execs going to jail, that’s so funny.

[-] 0 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

People are not equal. That's just a fact. Some people are smarter, stronger, taller, shorter, born to rich parents, or born in a slum. Some people have a talent for football and some can play a violin that will make you cry.

A lot of what I read in this forum is about why we should fight against one group of people or another because they are different or believe something different than we do. But I have never heard anyone say they hate someone because they have a great talent for playing the violin. Why then do we hate someone because they have a great talent for making money?

Because we are not equal and are free to pursue self interest there will be un-equal wealth and un-equal influence in Gov and other inequities.

So what can we do about this?

Solution 1: Give the Gov power to force equality. The price of this is freedom. Solution 2: Minimize the effect that these institutions can have on our lives. The price that we pay for this is security.

As Ben Franklin put it: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety"

Right now we seem to settle for a bit of both solutions, however of late we favor door number 1.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

----> 'How do you achieve "college for free" if you don't force someone else to pay for it?"

with a "Social Reserve Bank"

[-] 1 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

What is a Social Reserve Bank? Are the deposits voluntary like charitable donations. If yes then have at it. Let a private organization run it. If they do a poor job fire them. If they steal send them to jail.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

in reply to 1sealyon's post... thread ran out of nest capacity ....

it would be funded same as the Fed... the purpose would be to pick up the needed issues that the Fed is not interested in ... ie finance for domestic job creation, education, health ... etc....

I have a 2nd, better explanatory draft in the works ... taken from comments here.... I need to first finish some programming then I will put it on the table...

have at it ... critique it completely ;)

[-] 2 points by 1sealyon (434) 2 years ago

I read though the posting and comments but am still not getting it.

What does the SRB do? How is it funded? What is it's purpose?

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

We're all God's children. Some of us just deserve a higher allowance.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

that's funny SC... I just might join the Marxists now ... ;)

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

All the best.

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[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

awww.. how touchy. Mentioning about a party but no evidence to back it up. And then going on and on, spewing rhetoric. Forget WallSt, even Main Street mocks you guys.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

And, we mock you.

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

And, with all due respect, I don't care.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

I don't care if some Wall Street heavy hitters mock us either. Mocking people for trying to lift people out of poverty and for trying to get control of the government back into the hands of the people is pathetic. These Wall Street folks sold their souls a long time ago. I feel sorry for them. We'll never agree smartcapitalist, what can I say?

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

We can agree to disagree and from my side I should probably be a little more courteous with my disagreements. But I cannot agree with most of what you guys say. What would you have me do? Should I say that I wake up every morning and do an evil laugh and point my finger on the globe and tell myself "muhahahahhaa... lets tank that economy today..muhahahaha"? Well I dont and neither does anyone in my office. And this whole 99% versus 1%, we never think that way. Most of us are from regular middle class background and making fun of the 99% would be like making fun of our parents. But OWS is a not 99%. To us, they are group of hippies who want a life full of free lunches. And thus we dont hold a favorable view of them.

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

That's fine. I know you are decent enough, smartcapitalist. I'm no hippie by the way, so generalizing about us is not fair, just as I know not everyone on Wall Street is an evil greedy grubber. Certainly not. Plenty of working class people work for those firms.

And, we're not looking for a free lunch, for goodness sake, we're looking for an economy that works for everyone. I don't think it is too much to ask. You guys (not you in particular) look for favorable tax breaks and loopholes and ways to exploit and control our government thus, we don't hold a favorable view of the heavy hitters on Wall Street and the big corporations they support. :(

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I'm a hippie .... I put flowers in my hair ... to remind me that it's bad to kill these greedy fucks !!!!

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

Thanks for the laugh!

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

it's true ... ;)

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

I still think it's funny!

[-] 4 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

yeah... maybe we should all get together and send ZenDog some flowers if he don't have some... it might calm him down ... hehehe ;)

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

I think he has flowers, and trees up there.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Hey, I tried that, but my hairs too thin, so they keep falling out.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

OMG. Shooz, you are so funny. Everyone is so funny this morning! I'll take it after all the drama of the past few days...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It has gotten pretty intense around here.

I've grown tired of repeating myself, for the sake educating "conservatives".

Over the last few days, it seems they've pushed every "right wing" talking point, to the nth degree.

I need break, and am planning an outing to the butterfly house at the zoo. Photography is what I've taken up in retirement..................:)

The flower thing reminded me, I need to get back to that,

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

Nice. Have fun, shooz. :- )

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Thanks, it helps me get in touch with my inner artist.

Politics, has become such an ugly art, these days, I start to crave the creation of a more beautiful things.........:)

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

You are a warrior here, shooz, you deserve a break.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Good for you. Take a break and breath the fresh winter wind. That's just what I did. Breath in and out. It feels sooooo good!

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Thanks GK, I mostly need to flush out my mind, and get my creativity flowing again. ( Politics gets to be such a flow blocker after a while.)

I'm on a self induced hiatus, but the hunger to create, is growing stronger all the time..

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I know the feeling. We will be able to do both, but only if we shephard our energy and sanity. The battle, sadly, will not go away in the forseeable future. The mindless seem to have unlimited reserves of energy, and don't seem to be bothered by living covered with slime. But in the end they always lose anyway.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26055) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Good. Always take care of your health physical & mental. We all need to feed and recharge our spirit.

It has been quite intense lately and I expect it will only get more so as we move forward.

So support yourself as you would support those around you. We have a long road to travel.

[-] -1 points by tomahawk99 (-26) 2 years ago

the loser retreats

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

What a pointless statement.

What is it you think I've lost?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

sorry for butting in...hope you don't mind

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

I don't mind at all. The more, the merrier.

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

oh i know u r not a hippie and sorry for the generalization. Tax loopholes, yes we like that and so does everyone else ;-) But govt control, not quite. Sure we want favorable laws and so does every group. But it's not like a conspiracy as you guys make it out.

[-] 2 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

well... SC ... you admit we do need some regulation ... no ?

personally, I dream of a time like John Lennon's Imagine .. where we need or have no government ... but I also realize that is a dream ....

how about the recent thread about Parallel Foreclosure's ie.. http://www.parallelforeclosure.blogspot.com/

do you deny this is happening ? ... I doubt you support it..

so there does need some rules in place.. no ?

I and I think all of us... want very little govt ... but we also want to see very little (actually zero) hunger & starvation.... why can't we as a human race provide that ? ...

SC, I don't think many of us believe in conspiracy theorys .... but we do believe in organized corruption & crime .... do you not agree that fraud was a big part of the economic collapse ?

[-] 2 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

I think what you refer to as parallel foreclosure is basically 'dual tracking'. That has been going on for ages. Nothing new. Though I am not quite sure whats happening with homeowners, not really a part of my work.

As for regulations, some regulations are good but not all. I cannot make a blanket statement on that, it has to be taken on a case by case basis.

As for hunger and starvation, there is actually very little of it in here but in other parts of the world its a far bigger problem. Why cant we get away with this? Lot's of reasons other than just a simple 'greed'.

Was fraud a part of the economic debacle? To an extent yes. Like repackaging tier 2 and 3 tranches and getting a AAA on it, people knew what they were doing and thought they could get away. But many really believed those investments were sound. If banks really knew that the ground under their feet would disappear, they would have implemented contingencies, which they didn't. When you see everyone around you going long on mortgages, you would be mad not to do it yourself. Financial models are all fine but they are models and therefore not perfect. They depend on the assumptions of the analyst and if you plug in fancy numbers you can get fancy results but that result does not necessarily have anything to do with reality.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Do you think the banks should be prosecuted for their fraud? Like you said, they knew what they were doing.

Should the banks be prosecuted for this? And I'm not talking about paying settlements that are so small as to be just a cost of doing business. I'm talking about real punishment for their crimes. As if they are not above the law. As if they should be held appropriately responsible and accountable for their actions.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Yes, I know. You would like all of us to be behind bars.

On a serious note, if there is malpractice it should be dealt with. But losing money in business is not a malpractice. You win some you lose some. And during a bubble everyone makes mistakes. Like the dot com bubble.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Again, spare me the ad hominem. I don't want you or all of "you", whoever you are - behind bars! Don't be ridiculous.

Being dumb, losing money, is not criminal. It's the result of bad business decisions. But this is separate and distinct from selling securities and portraying as something they were not.

A repackaged mish mosh of tier 2 and tier 3 tranches, with maybe a little AAA thrown in there, fully rationalized as if it were diversified enough to be relatively low risk, and portraying that "as if" it were as good as AAA, or close to it, is fraud.

That's not a mistake. They were sold with the intent to defraud investors. If there were no intent to defraud, they would have fully disclosed those tier 2 and 3 tranches. They did not.

Don't make excuses. Either people are responsible and held accountable for their criminal actions or not. Don't duck the question. Yes or no.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Well frankly I agree on the repackaging allegation and cannot deny it. Happened a lot. Should people be penalized? yes. But on a case by case basis.

[-] 2 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Why shouldn't the institution as a whole as be held responsible for actions of it's employees, their business model and business decisions? The institution is responsible for creating the environment that allowed the fraud to take place. Whether it be for aggressive marketing or lack of internal controls or faulty risk management. The institution as a whole, and the executives in the upper levels are absolutely responsible for this. How can it be that these executives get the rewards for the good business decisions and get rewarded also for very poor business decisions and fraud?

A case by case basis is not appropriate because the actions were so wide spread. These were not actions taken by a few isolated individuals gone rogue. If that were the case, I might agree with you. This was widespread fraud. The fraud was standard operating procedure. The institutions benefitted hugely from it. And suffered little when the market turned. GS did a good job of recognizing this earlier than others and did a good job of dumping as much toxicity as they could, again, on unsuspecting investors, using fraudulent selling methods.

You can't have it both ways. Reward for success and reward for failure.

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

I know you hate banks and bankers and would like all of us behind bars, may be because you are jealous.

Do you know how a business works or more specifically the trading floor? Even across desks people wouldn't know what the other person is dealing in. The CEO or CRO may not even understand some of the more recent products because those are so niche and complex. How can you say every executive is responsible? Are you omniscient and omnipresent? It is the exact similar thinking that the Muslim terrorists have about us, that we are all somehow inclined towards eradicating them from the face of the earth.

Again, how can you say these actions are wide spread. Because some journalist without the slightest clue of finance and who needs to sell his newspaper says so? Or may be because some politician in a bid to gain popularity says so?

And how do you know who was rewarded for what? Some of the stock options etc get accrued over many years, so even if I did badly in the third year but good in the first two, I might still get a good bonus.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I understand. You find it difficult to come down too hard on your own kind. : )

Too funny!
"All I have to do is glance at my Blackberry, and my wife rolls her eyes and then shuts up. It's awesome."

And all this time I thought he was just a BB junkie he was actually doing it on purpose?! That's so mean!

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

I am single. And my girl friend hates my BB

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You're right, I don't know who all should go to jail. That's why there needs to be an appropriate investigation, for which there hasn't been.

And the safeguards clearly were lacking given the amount of damage that was caused. Seems to me we can't rely on internal safeguards. Which is why Glass-Steagall or something similar needs to be enacted. Stronger regulation for financial institutions. They can't be trusted to safeguard themselves and the consequences of the downside risk for the rest of the economy is too great.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Anyways, enough serious talk. Read this https://twitter.com/GSElevator

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

And I'll tell you how I know. It doesn't matter if one trading desk didn't know or did know what the other was doing. Leaders are responsible. That is part of the territory of being a leader. When you are the leader you accept this. The rewards and the responsibilty that goes with it. A CEO or CRO that doesn't understand the complexity - that is a fail. None of us can claim ignorance of the law because a situation may be too complex. A CEO/CRO/CFO is responsible for putting safeguards in place. Putting in rules,proceducres and safeguards to protect the organization from fraud or other illegal activities.

It has nothing to do with some journalist writing an article. This is all common sense. But as far as there is evidence of fraud - see Sen. Carl Levin's investigation of the financial crisis, done almost 2 years ago. His committee sent over thousands of pages of documents to the DOJ. Because there was evidence of wide spread fraud. For there not to even be an investigation by the DOJ, that is the problem. You're right, I don't know for sure whether that evidence would result in indictments, how many or how much. But the fact that there was not even an appropriate investigation by our DOJ is a problem. That is unacceptable.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

those safeguards exist and yet you cannot make it full proof. I agree that the law needs to catch up with crooks but to say that the CEO should be sent behind bars because of a rogue trader is unjustified. Its like saying that Toyota's CEO should be held accountable for those car accidents we heard a few years ago.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I don't hate banks or bankers and I don't want all of you behind bars! Stop putting words in that I'm not saying or implying at all.

I'm saying, there should be appropriate accountability. And it is justified at the highest levels because they are ultimately responsible for the actions of their organization. You can't have it both ways. Institutions and CEO's that get rewarded for both success and failure.

Had it not been for the taxpayer bailouts, more of those institutions would have appropriately failed. Like Enron or WorldCom. The Wall Street banks were spared this ultimate measure of accountability. Yet still have not been held accountable on the less drastic scale of appropriate fraud indictments.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

thanks.... I never heard of "tranches" ... aside...

re ---> in other parts of the world its a far bigger problem. Why cant we get away with this? Lot's of reasons other than just a simple 'greed'. ...

I agree ...Why is it that much of today’s corporations, government bodies, court systems, etc. so in-festered with illegal and selfish activities? Is it simply greed? Or could some survival be involved?

as far as hunger is the US... I can tell you first hand it is real ... I look homeless and fit well (welcomed) in homeless environments... I know places in DC where there are likely over 500 homeless residing per location/s ... I would guess that there is at least 20,000 homeless in DC alone... and DC is in good economic position compared to much of the US...

now I know homelessness & hunger here doesn't compare to some places of the world.. but if we can't fix it here... somethings wrong...

back to the fraud ... ---> If banks really knew that the ground under their feet would disappear,..."

well ... I tend to believe that many banks did know... they should have .. I knew and I'm just a construction worker ... anyway if they didn't know why were they selling short ? ... am I wrong ?

now I also look at it as a big casino game... everyone trying to win at the next big gamble ... including the no doc housing speculators ....

and the speculators lost ... I don't feel bad for them... but the collapse of the banking which also brought down many businesses and therefore jobs ... left a whole lot of hard working American's w/o the ability to pay mortgages they carried long before the speculation game... and now those banks in trouble are going after whatever they can get .... am I wrong ?

and honestly SC... our real problem ahead world wide is providing enough jobs .... and we have to fix it ... or we will either be forced to socialize or forced into war...

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

I would not agree that corporations now are any more into illegal activities than they were earlier, if anything they are probably far more ethical. earlier you could easily cover up but now with Youtube and blogs, things spread like wild fire which is probably why we think that there is more corruption. Govt oversight and norms have largely increased and these days companies are far more careful about their image.

Only a few banks were selling short most weren't. Which is why they and their investors lost a lot of money. No one feels bad for speculators, not even the speculators themselves. They know the game they are in and loss an occupational hazard.

Our real problem world wide is well first ensuring everyone has enough food. Jobs, thats more of a first world problem.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

---->"Only a few banks were selling short most weren't. ..."

hmm.. think about this... most of us here believe the same... that's why we continuously target the 5 big ones who did sell short... and repackage junk...

they are the 1%.... but because all the bankers are still defending them... it's starting to look like all the banks were in on it....

and I know that is not true....

the honest straight-up banks should be in this fight w/ us

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Not all the big ones. Mostly GS, they are smart.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

if they were selling long & short at the same time they are also corrupt

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

--->I would not agree that corporations now are any more into illegal activities than they were earlier,... I can agree with that...

Our real problem world wide is well first ensuring everyone has enough food. Jobs, thats more of a first world problem.

total agreement... but the first world does have a problem. ... now that the third world has it's jobs ... ;)

hint hint ;)... a Social Reserve Bank ... dedicated to job creation ... and everything else the economic investment world is not interested in supporting...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

I agree to disagree with you. You are fun to talk to, btw. :- )

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26055) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Amen. Agree to Disagree. Unite in common cause to end corruption and it's manipulations. Lets all move forward together.

Republican, Democrat, Left, Right or middle. It does not matter.

There is corruption throughout government State and Federal..

There are good people of all of these persuasions ( listed above ) still in government also.

Let us stop arguing about differences, and start discussing common cause.

Let us all get past the distractions, and start working together to move forward in healing government, stopping corruption and making a better world for "ALL".

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21442) 2 years ago

Well put.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26055) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you. It is where we must go.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Thank you.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I do believe you often wake and think "how can I reduce labor costs today" and you just don't think of what that does. Like any player in the game you play according to the rules you have but rarely think "Are those rules fair" the people in charge of writing the rules are the ones who are wining, if it were up to the Yankees would they be sharing revenue? We need to find a way to get the "losers" to the table so we can see what's wrong with the rules, cause if you look at the scoreboard this game is getting pretty boring.

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

Since I don't employ labor I don't have to think on those lines but sometimes I do that kind of thinking for my clients. And anyone who is running a business should think about reducing costs and increasing profits. You don't think that way because you don't run a business and bottom line is not your responsibility. Should people think how to increase labor cost? That like saying a aeroplane designer should think how to increase drag and fuel consumption. Or may be a coach should think, how to win with a lesser margin because hey as long as we are winning right.

Tomorrow if my firm starts making lesser profits and if I lose my job when I am almost at the verge of getting promoted, you wont find me complaining or occupying the lobby of the building. And I dont see why the rules be any different for anyone. When companies go out of business do they complain? Is Yahoo complaining that Google should not build a faster and vaster database for it's search engine? Did Microsoft complain that Apple is not sharing some of the portable music player market with Zune? Did Jerry Yang, Andrea Jung or Carly Fiona complain when they got ousted?

I am sorry to say but I can only see absurdity in the notion that companies should not work towards cutting costs when their consumers are constantly demanding even better products at even cheaper price.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

When we assume we make mistakes, I was going off your statement “around my office” I don’t think that one’s personal experience is that relevant to the rule making, so I am going to, for now, avoid the temptation of my bio. How about a thought experiment instead: Let’s say the NFL decided to let the owners just go ahead and directly buy points. OK I think you know where I’m going here, how long would people watch the games? Of course business should cut costs and we should repeal all “right to work” laws as the government interference that they are, and establish “card” laws to make it easier to organize, as a matter of fact all corporations should be required to be unionized so that collective capital can be on equal footing with collective labor. Just a few ideas off the cuff, yes everyone should play to win, but we should look at the scoreboard every once and a while and make sure we got a good set of rules.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

so SC, don't you see where this thinking all leads ?

the businesses tighten up... (which they should do) ... more people loose jobs ... less people buy for lack of money... more businesses tighten up ... more loose jobs... less people buy.... etc. until there are no businesses or jobs left...

no ?

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

No. Some people will lose jobs and they will probably relocate to other jobs. Over time those jobs would disappear altogether. Such a change can happen due to outsourcing (comparative advantage) or technological change (computers came and typists lost their jobs and so did a lot of low level actuarial people). The economy gets into a higher orbit with higher skilled jobs and higher salaries. Happens all the time.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

SC.... the middle class ... provides the consumer base... and therefore drives the local (nation level) economies.... developing third world is great... I'm all for it.... and capitalizing on that is great also.... I'm all for people making profit ... but when we completely abandon supporting the local (nation level) economies.... eventually all will collapse....

ADDED: we are a very creative and resourceful people... we can in fact replace lost business with new ... BUT we can't do that w/o startup and operating capital ... the investors & banks have abandoned America in reach of fast off-shore profits .... the thinking needs to change .. or Wall Street will be in the unemployment lines too ...

I suggest we not wait for Wall Street to change ... I suggest we move forward and build our "Social Reserve Bank" to rebuild our America

[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

the middle class does not just comprise of factory workers, waiters etc.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

that's true... look at the job cut lists... it's in everything... every business

reposted from economicallydiscardedcitizen (today) http://occupywallst.org/forum/top-hiring-companies-guess-what-hiring-managers-ha/#comment-633485

[-] 1 points by economicallydiscardedcitizen (676) 4 hours ago And as of yesterday, a few thousand employees of American Airlines in Dallas, TX and many others announced daily here: http://www.dailyjobcuts.com/ February 10 , 2012 Chiquita Brands - Possible 200 Job Cuts in Ohio YRC Freight in Lake Park GA - 88 Positions Thermo Fisher Scientific Inc - 43 in Milwaukee Nova Scotia Power ( International ) - 40 Pasadena City Hall CA - 14 Layoff Notices February 9 , 2012 Idaho National Laboratory - up to 185 C&D Technologies Inc - 120 in Milwaukee Oregon hospitals - Layoffs Continue Danske Bank - 2,000 Update: PepsiCo - 150 in Chicago Pepsi Co Inc PepsiCo - 8,700 Job Cuts in 2012 / Layoffs Alcatel-Lucent - up to 1,800 Europe Positions Update: The Interim LSU Public Hospital - 55 Layoffs, and 161 Positions Possible Bank of America BofA - 450 Jobs in Concord American Airlines - 500 Flight Attendants, On top of the 13,000 The city of Downey CA - 12 Layoff Notices TriMet Portland - Layoffs Possible February 8 , 2012 McLeod's Loris Hospital and Seacoast Medical Center - 48 Pella Window Corporation in Macomb Ill - Furloughs instead of Layoffs San Lorenzo School District CA - 133 Pink Slips to Temporary Teachers The Saint Louis Science Center - 24 Update: Xerox Wilsonville Campus - Some Layoffs in 2012, No Number Yet Xerox in Webster NY - Some Layoffs, No Number Tenet Healthcare Corp - Consolidation of 2 Atlanta Hospital Could = Some Layoffs Graphic Packaging International Inc. - 69 in Kansas City Virginia Beach Schools - Budget Cuts Could Mean Layoffs AL Gov. Bentley - Budget would Likely include Layoffs The Livingston Medical Group - 27 California University of Pennsylvania - 11 Preble Shawnee Local School District Ohio - 14 Nokia - 4,000 Prairie Mountain Publishing Co - 17 Montreat College - 29 Capital Health ( International ) - 34 Booz Allen Hamilton Inc - Layoffs Went Beyond Management AmMed Direct LLC - 223 Layoff Notices, May be Closing Utica NY Schools - 150 Job Cuts Next Year, Worst Case City of Westminster CA - 48 Layoff Notices Reynolds American Tobaccoville NC - Several Layoffs, No Number Riverside County CA? - 180 Layoffs Needed to Cut Cost Corner Brook Pulp and Paper ( International ) - 9 and 33 More to Come February 7 , 2012 Student Movers - 50 Supervalu - 800 Sega Studios Australia - 1/2 of Staff or 37 Macquarie Group ( International ) - Layoffs very Possible The Rosie Show - 30 Smith & Nephew - 800 Bryce Hospital in Tuscaloosa AL - 34 Livingson Medical Group CA - 24+ Update: Lloyds Banking Group - 990 Pacific Northwest National Laboratory - Hoping for Less Than 100 Layoffs to be Announced Later this month Salt Lake City video game developer Eat Sleep Play - 8 February 6 , 2012 Carhartt Hopkins Co. Plant - 150 Alpha Natural Resources - 152 in W. Virginia, and 168 in Kentucky AvMed Health - 95 Local Eastman Kodak Co. Ohio - 80 Xpect Discounts - 58 Fisker Automotive 25+ MetLife - 804 Positions in Irving TX Cox Communications - 100 Layoffs When it Shutters Wireless Service Greece - Debt Deal = 15,000 Public Sector Layoffs 9 Food Lion Tennessee - About 360 layoffs Update: EA Confirms Small Layoffs at Vancouver Studio Qantas Airways Ltd. - Warns of Possible Layoffs February 5 , 2012 Daytona State College - 14 at School's Television Station Kenosha Unified WI- 28 Layoff Notices Nippon Sheet Glass ( Japan International ) - 3,500 February 4 , 2012 Bose Corp. Speaker Plant Near Blythewood - 200 Schneider Electric in Loves Park - 6 February 3 , 2012 Verizon - 336 in NJ Leonard J. Chabert Medical Center - up to 80 Layoffs Possible Montreat College - 4 Academic Programs and 29 Layoffs Electronic Arts EA Vancouver Branch - Small Number of Layoffs Jackson Health System - To Announce "Significant" Layoffs in About 2 Weeks Patriot Coal stop production at the Big Mountain Mining Complex - 250 Layoffs Philadelphia School District - 90 The Orleans Parish Public Defender's Office - 10 Alliant Techsystems - up to 200 Thirty-One Gifts - 182 Public broadcasting station KUHT Houston - 12 February 2 , 2012 Tracker Boat Center in Miami Oklahoma - Moving to Missouri = 112 Layoffs Detroit Bus Drivers - Brace for Layoffs Ryan International Airlines - 200 Cigna Medical Group - 100 in Phoenix Manheim San Antonio - 70 Impala Platinum Holdings ( International ) - Fires 17,200 Workers After Illegal Pay Strike Update: HSBC Holdings Plc - Move Fund Operations Unit to Ireland May = 200 Jobs Lost AstraZeneca - Next Round of Layoffs will = 7,300 Westpac Banking Corp - 300 to 400 Update: AA American Airlines - New Estimate Around 13,000 Jobs / Layoffs Sumco Corp. - 1,300 Kennedy Space Center - Another 200 in the Coming Months Virginia Port Authority - 11 TE Connectivity - 135 Southern Coal Company A & G Coal - Some Layoffs, No Number Update: THQ - up to 240 Job Cuts Corner Brook Pulp and paper ( International ) - 43 February 1 , 2012 American Airlines - May Cut / Layoff up to 15,000 Jobs Microsoft Corp. - 200 Canpages ( International ) - 500+ American Greetings Ohio - 30 UMass Memorial Health Care - 700 to 900 Layoffs Pfizer Inc Pearl River Plant - 71 Ace Distribution Services Inc - 32 at its New Berlin Facility SeaChange International Inc - Some Layoffs, No Number Oakland city workers CA - 80 THQ - Mass Layoffs of 170 Coming? Human Genome Science Inc. - 150 Flickr - Reported 12% of Staff Kenosha Unified’s WI main office - 22 Secretaries IBM - Could Cut up 8,000+ Jobs in Germany Janesville Grainger facility - 20 Sub-Zero Inc - 100

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[-] 0 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

thats expected when the economy is down. Look at pre 2008.

[-] 1 points by flip (7102) 2 years ago

no one with any intelligence is blaming you or any individual - the system is the problem. a system that has pushed working people (like you parents most likely) into more difficult lives and promoted the wealthy and ruling classes beyond any reasonable standard of living. you cannot deny the changes that have taken place since the 70's - if you think they are good that is fine - if you think they help the 99% you are mistaken. if you think the people in your office are working to help the 99% you are not thinking!

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

SC, according to us.. the 1%, is not defined by the top 1% wealth ... it is defined by the top 1% greed & corruption ...

in your words...

if you do not point your finger on the globe and tell yourself "muhahahahhaa... lets tank that economy today..muhahahaha"?

then you are not the 1% .... welcome ;)

[-] 1 points by smartcapitalist (143) 2 years ago

welcome :)

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

well .. if that's how Childish "Main Street" behaves ... we ain't got much to worry about ... do we ?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ;)

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