Forum Post: Voting matters, in the month of May.
Posted 12 years ago on May 31, 2012, 10:03 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8342)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This is NDAA 2013
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39897
of the 120 nays do we even have to ask how many were Ds?
This repels indefinite detention:
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39904
of the 182 yeas, how many Ds, how many Rs?
This one restricts spending in Aganistan to only what is needed to get out:
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39906
of the 113 yeas, do you think we will find a Republican?
But here’s a real winner it stops us from reducing the nuclear weapons we have already agreed to:
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39908
only 162 voted against that, should we see what the D/R count is?
Go vote for the best boss to run your business of death!
keep your head in the sand and let the 1% rule, what use is a voice if you don't use it
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got 11 Rs to go along with ending indefinate detention out of about what 250 in the house. that means about 175 of the 200 or so left voted against indefinite detention, if only there were fewer Rs in the house...
You seem to "forget" that indefinite detention was codified by NDAA 2012 - a bill with bipartisan sponsorship (like NDAA 2013 is) that passed BOTH houses of Congress with huge bipartisan majorities before being signed into law by "Democratic" president and corporate puppet Barack Obama. If you removed ALL of the Republicans from both houses, NDAA 2012 would STILL have been passed by their corporate puppet brothers in the Democratic Party.
Wrong you lying 1%er, 2/3 of the Democrats voted against NDAA 2013 and NDAA 2012 in the house, no Republicans no NDAA, the facts are the facts, eve if you don’t like them.
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39897
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/37467
Bi partisan usually means there is a larger than usual deception being carried out
George Carlin
Don’t believe what “tj” says, truth is 2/3 of the Ds in the house voted against both, it’s not as bad as some would have you believe.
so you will agree that everyone in the Senate is corrupted beyond all recognition?
No I agree people do things in the reality based world, like run for state wide office in a country where those that really care are scattered and confused by people telling them it is wrong to vote for anyone who is not 100% pure, that they should throw away their votes on third party fools, so evil wins while the good guys are divided.
Unite, defeat Republicans, and WIN!!!
you never manage to top yourself....
I don't own the truth, it just is, accepting what is, is the only true path forward. Those that ignore what happens while pretending to care are just trying to deceive, you want OWS to do nothing because you fear the coming change, you should.
That last line is most telling.
"Unite, defeat R's, and WIN." Yeah, that sound like a winning strategy. It also sounds suspiciously like the line used at the end of just about every comment made from the most blatant Democratic shill on this forum.
Go ahead tell me how neither Romney nor Obama will win or that it doesn't matter which one wins, you are either a fool or a lair.
Obama will win. Whether it matters or not remains to be seen. My money's on:
Not.
that's what people, (Nader) said about Gore too, some said that it didn't matter (Nader), people like that probably don't believe in things like climate change, many still don't, thanks to Nader
Don't get me wrong, facts. I don't believe both parties are the same, per se. But I have absolutely no faith in the Dems either.
Faith is for church, I want to make the country a better place to live for all Americans, when I look at policies and how the parties vote I don't have any problem seeing who is fighting (mostly) for the people and who is fighting 100% for the 1%.
If you actually care, this is how I came to be where i am, in the early eighties when CSPAN became available I was hooked, I watch vote after vote I would read each amendment and decide if I thought it was a good ideal or a bad one, then I watch the voting to see if I agreed with most of the Republicans or most of the Democrats, I think we know how it turned out.
So I did my study, I know what I'm talking about and I pray to God we do this thing this time, because I really do believe we are running out of time. The demographics are so against the GOP they will push their voter suppression crap to the point hardly anyone will be able to vote, then it is game over. Maybe not forever, how long did Mubarak rule? Maybe after a hundred years or so we might have a bloody revolution again, but if we rid ourselves of the GOP that won't be necessary, we can fix this through the ballot box, if we do the smart thing.
Look I don’t know where you are really coming from there are many GOP supporters on here throwing the third party crap because they are afraid we might actually do something, they always come out every time things get a little tough and people start waking up. The saddest day on earth is the one Nader file for the Florida ballot.
I'll give you one thing, facts. You have paid a great deal of attention to politics over the years, of that there is no doubt. The only thing I have issue with, and this seems to be a growing theme, just because we support the concept of third parties, that doesn't make us GOP supporters. Puleeeze! Your attitude about us, and our refusal to support Obama, is dead wrong. DK gets it, why can't you and your buddies? If you paid half as much attention to what we say as you do politics, you'd see that. That's what starting to piss us off, your insistence on turning this site into an Obama camp. I'll say this again. Try to pay attention:
Just because we don't support Obama doesn't make us Republicans or right-wing whackos. Got it?
The concept that the individuals who are ( apparently ) supporting the democratic party should take - is the enemy of my enemy (corpoRATists/corpoRATions ) is my friend. Yes - there is no way in hell that I or any sane person would want to see mittens as the next president.
If votes are pulled away from the two party nominees right now will a third party get elected? Um not real likely in this election as there has been no ground work laid for the success of a third party nominee. No one has been singled out for support - united support - so basically besides making a statement that the Repub and Dem candidates were not wanted by these third party voters - one or the other Obummer or mittens will be elected in this next go round at the polls. One has to hope that the support that is said to be behind mittens is all lies as I do not understand how a republican ( a true republican ) could support this insane asshole. Registered Independents are the largest reported voting block right now - the question is how many are former repubs and how many are former dems. Knowing this would give a better idea of who will be hurt more by the independent voter - did the dems lose to many direct supporters(?) or did the repubs? Where will the majority of the Independent vote go?
I think everyone and I mean everyone needs to be supporting or opposing issues. That our best effect will be in gaining control of the Senate and the Congress. Pushing issues by demand will be our best start ( IMO ) in that effort. That and ejecting corpoRATist politicians from office ASAP.
Look I voted for Anderson, so it's not that I don't understand, but I also lived through Bush, so I hope you can too.
The worst part is that they dont realize that our unified approach to THE GOVERNMENT AND CORPORATE INFLUENCE was the main reason for the previous HUGE numbers we had.
These pawns have done nothing but alienate probably about 80% of the population with their nonsense.
Hence our numbers are NOTHING near what they were. They have managed to subdue it, to turn it into a political partisan front, which is the last thing the vast majority of the population wants.
Im not sure if that was their plan, or that they are so brainwashed they simply dont get it.
Our numbers were large when we spoke of wealth inequality, people thought we had something say, we could again. We must crush the Republican Party or we will have done nothing, all who care about OWS know that, you are a troll and supporter of the 1% and all know it.
Thoughts on this pic?
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=434746296570044&set=a.251867728191236.64940.251838778194131&type=3&theater
I didnt see any Vote for Obama pics on their site, at all. Not a single one. hmmmmmm.... Has someone been lying?
looks like you have a good plan to keep the 1% in power as long as just one of them votes, I don't know if the rest of us will go along with it though, I sure hope not
Quick!! What percentage of the general population would have to vote for a decent idea in order for it to beat the two corporate parties?
See there you go thinking we can't do this all we have to do is tell the truth, or is that too hard for you?
Yep. I just got done telling someone basically that on a different thread, how their partisan bullshit has chased away a good number of sincere people.
There's basically two entities on this forum now. Ours and theirs and the twain shall probably never meet but I'm not too concerned. The way I see it is, and I'll bet you agree, Obama wins in Nov. plus they'll be an unprecedented number of Independents, which may get some people to rethink the whole concept of third parties. As long as people keep playing this R or D bullshit, nothing will change. What I don't get is, why don't more people see that?
Push issues not party politics. Find the support for good issues and unite and find opposition for bad issues and unite.
I'd like to see an end to all disparaging remarks.
And this is why you are well-suited to OWS:
"I guess part of my perspective comes from work experience too - as I had to look at complete processes and break them down into component parts to analyze the whole process and see where individual steps could be taken that would improve the process just by them self - each step improving the whole."
I went ahead and jumped up here. Figured it would be easier.
I think the comment goes a long way to explaining the importance of separate issues. They are part of the whole of what is good or what is bad in any system. Thanks for the affirmation.
Parts of a whole is good way to look at it, since most if not all our problems are so interrelated. Like a web.
Yes - society is a complex weave. The hard part can be getting others to recognize relationships/connections.
The issue I care about is fixing this budget by raising taxes on the wealthy, do you really think I will find anyone in the Republican Party willing to do that? I know how exposed I am for speaking my mind, like sitting in the park at night alone, but sometime you have to care more about taking effective action than making friends, I've been watching this a long time, i have no doubt who the emeny is, when more understand thatwe will move forward, Obama's biggest mistake was thinking he could find Republicans that were still willing to do the right thing, none are left, i didn't make it that way, Norquest did.
Then you should find this interesting:
On special Interest money.
From - PCCC - take back democracy.
Yesterday, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI) made national news when he spoke with Progressive Change Campaign Committee members across the nation about next steps for campaign finance reform.
If you missed the call, click here to listen to the highlights -- and join our Take Back Democracy campaign to be invited to future calls!
Here are some media reports about the call:
Los Angeles Times: Sen. Whitehouse vows to continue effort to alter Citizens United
Huffington Post: Sheldon Whitehouse, Disclose Act Sponsor: 'We Can't Give Up'
Listen to call highlights.
Here are some things Sen. Whitehouse said:
On PCCC activism: "There was such outpouring of support for the DISCLOSE Act. It was really astonishing to a lot of my colleagues...I thank you for how energetically you all have supported this effort. And I’m with you all the way."
On why these Democracy issues matter: "It’s important for us to remember that this isn’t just a process problem. These big money donors are not out there fighting to protect the middle class. They’re not out there fighting to protect Social Security. They’re not fighting to do something significant about climate change...They’re fighting against all those causes."
On how states and towns can help: "States and municipalities are investing their own money...Apartheid in South Africa is a good example of how citizen engagement can lead the government to change its investment strategy, which, in turn, can help accomplish these goals. There’s no reason that public money should be being invested in companies that won’t tell the public what they’re doing with it in the political sphere.”
On Elizabeth Warren's Democratic convention speech: “I think she has a really important message that will resonate with folks. And it’s right smack down the line of what we’re talking about here: That special interests have over and over again preyed on the middle class, that the middle class has been taken advantage of over and over again with the tax code, pensions, attacks to Social Security, with attacks on Medicare and that that’s an important context for us to approach this election."
Want to hear more insights from this national progressive rising star? Click here to listen to highlights from our call with Sen. Whitehouse -- and join our Take Back Democracy campaign!
Thanks for being a bold progressive.
– Stephanie Taylor, Adam Green, Josh Wolfsun, Jason Rosenbaum, Amanda Johnson, and the PCCC team
Thanks for the info, I think you know that I believe we must completely rethink money, what it is, what we allow it to control in order to have the lasting change we need, efforts like this to remove the power of money from governmental action is vital.
Yes money out of government is one of the essential 1st steps to be taken.
indeed
the government should fund only government jobs
Reply to above: you first sentence is well put. I've said numerous times that I don't support Mittens. But in their eyes, since I don't support Obama, apparently I'm a Republican? Your one of the more level-headed guys on this forum, DK. They should take a cue from your playbook and realize those of us that don't support Obama are still on the right side of this thing. That makes us allies. They don't think so.
The way I see it (we've probably already discussed this) is Obama, barring fraud, is a lock in November so I'm not concerned about not voting for him. He's in, I think. I think Mittens knows it too, otherwise wouldn't he be trying some kind of damage control considering all his gaffs recently? Or is it that he isn't concerned because HE'S a lock in November? If that's the case it bodes ill for the voter regardless.
I harbor no illusions that a third-party will get in this time. That's flat-out impossible. But I also think that there will probably be a record number of Independent votes because people are leaving the R's and D's in droves:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2011-12-22/voters-political-parties/52171688/1
Good article - http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2011-12-22/voters-political-parties/52171688/1 - thanks.
Yes growth of the Independent voter is I believe a wonderful and very inspiring thing to see. As if you have ( and I think it likely ) noticed the analysis of what an independent voter is what an Independent voter is concerned about - the analysis says that while some independents have left or right leanings - their main concerns are issues and not party line politics. THIS BODES WELL FOR THE FUTURE ( IMO ). We can actually push issues.
There was a series on TV years ago that might have been called "Connections." I think it was on in the late '90's, I think with a British guy. Although some of his assertions were a bit of a stretch, the basic premise was sound. Like, the Internet wouldn't have existed without television being invented, television wouldn't exist without the invention of vacuum tubes, etc. Ring a bell? Sounds like the kind of show you'd watch.
No it is not familiar - I know it sounds like I spend a lot of time watching TV - but truth be told - After I got out of school - I was working going home to fall over and recover from work and then going back to work again ( lather rinse repeat ) pretty much 365 days of the year. I would however find something like that to be interesting I also like science engineering construction and nature etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc programs articles books as well as history.
Yeah, this is why I believe that, ultimately, OWS will be a success. It is slowly getting people involved in numerous ways, and that's the key. Everything from voting in November to "buy local." And a whole host of things in between. But as the savvy people on this forum are aware, it's going to take a long time, just to achieve sufficient numbers in all these areas to reach critical mass. But it will happen. That's why I wish some guys here wouldn't get so hung up on who votes for who in a couple months.
I would also like to see an end to disparaging remarks about armchair activists.
Yes - we must adopt a long view - and lay plans and take part in actions that support the long view - there will be many changes to be made on the way to a healthy society/world.
I guess part of my perspective comes from work experience too - as I had to look at complete processes and break them down into component parts to analyze the whole process and see where individual steps could be taken that would improve the process just by them self - each step improving the whole.
It took a while to find that damn link. Man, I have to clear off some of these bookmarks.
Yes, it does bode well. That's why I'm not really concerned with this November, my focus is on 2016. I'm trying to figure out a way we can reach many of the disparate Independent voters (and they're all over the map, politically) and somehow rally them. Many of the third-parties have overlapping platforms to varying degrees, now, how to combine some of them? That's my dream for 2016.
I am trying to do the same while also focusing on the day to day. If we can start getting traction and some victories on things like the move to amend campaign - I think those types of things will catch the attention of the public. No the MSM won't cover the campaigns but they will make some sort of halfassed announcement when things like that get passed. These separate issue campaigns is where I think we can find inspiration for the public at large.
Exactly. We've talked about this before and I think it's one of the smartest concepts I've encountered on this forum and why, although I do have a problem with a couple of the D shills here, I don't consider you one. Your flurry of letter-writing lately is also commendable. I meant to tell you that before but have been distracted from the forum quite a bit lately, as evidenced by my three or four extended absences.
Life can have a tendency to interfere with personal plans. Thanks for the compliment on the open letters - it is another attempt of mine to get people thinking and communicating. Awareness - critical thinking can be fostered in adults - it is just harder to do if they have not been fully aware of the propaganda bombardment we live within on a daily basis.
My only defense that I offer for the die hard Dem supporters is - that there actually is at this point in time very discernible differences between them and the republicans in office right now.
The majority of the corpoRATists in office right now are very visible in hiding under the republican banner - yes there are nodoubt plenty of Dem corpoRATists as well - but they seem to be much better at being covert about it. The Repub/corpoRATists though seem to be shouting look at me look at me and fuck you American People - just WTF do you think you are gonna do about us - nah na na nah nah.
This is exactly why I push the recognition of issue and for people to look at voting records to identify good individuals as well as bad individuals.
But not to leave the government ( ever ) in the hands of elected officials - but that the population must become directly involved with directing government.
Totally agree. I'm determined to help put us back on the right track, if possible. We're just going to go about it in different ways, which, I don't need to tell you, is a good thing. A multi-pronged attack and all that.
Multifaceted - Yes - I like that - keep the opposition hopping and confused.
Whats wrong with Dem supporters?. I thought OWS was made up of Dems? Dem pols support OWS. I know that Repubs attack OWS just like they attack Dems. Just like you. Are you a repub? You didn't say you had a problem with repub shills. Are repub shills ok with you? Why did you leqave them out? Aren't they the problem?
Basically, there are no Repub shills on this forum. Repubs are absolutely the biggest problem in politics right now. I also have no problem with people supporting Dems, if that's what someone thinks best. I realize you just got here yesterday, but really, you should do a little research before you start posting. This site isn't supposed to be a political forum, although that's what it's becoming. All you had to do was read the forum rules to see that. And had you plugged 'gnomunny' into the search engine on the archives page you would've seen that, out of the half dozen posts I've made, TWO go into great detail about Independent parties, and state that I have no intention of voting for Romney OR Obama. It might have saved you a rant.
"no republican shills"? I spent a lot of time reading posts this morning. I saw republican shills.
salta. slizzo. joethefarmer. I know I'm new but your not. Did you miss them.? Or are you covering for them? Why are they ok? And I read the rules. I haven't broken any rules. You gotta be a special kinda moron if you think the OWS site is not political.
I thought OWS was interested in getting money out of POLITICS.. I thought OWS was trying to build a new POLITICAL system.
Are you trying to get me to stop posting because I am a dem? I see no rules against dems. I think it is not the spirit of democracy to try and shut me down. What are you afraid of? You know the republicans are the problem. Dem pols support OWS. Republican pols (and FOX) attack OWS.
Are you sure your not a republican?
Your opinion isn't better than mine.
Fuck man, you sound just like vq in your suppositions and accusations. Where did I say you can't post? Where did I say you broke any rules. Where did I say my opinion is better than yours?
I said exactly two 100% truthful things. This forum isn't supposed to be a political forum. If you can't get that from the forum rules, you're not a 'special kind of moron,' you're retarded. And I'm not a fucking Repub. The three people you mention have no credibility here, except maybe Joe, who does seem intelligent. Had you been here any length of time you'd know this.
Just what we need, another stupid motherfucker ruining this forum. Don't waste my time again.
This forum IS political. And you are a moron who can't handle different opinions. but it seems only those that are Dem.
You ignore the the Republicans I mentioned so I guess you are ok with them.
Your trying to push out pro dems 'cause you are a republican in secret.
So fuck you.
bullshit like yours I suppose, i mean this third party crap, the thing we must do is kill the GOP and make room for a new party, with winner take all elections it will always be two, what we need are a better two to choose from, in Britain everyone supports the national health plan because they got rid of their crazies, we could do the same if we stick together
It's not bullshit. The concept of "this time Obama's got our back" is not only bullshit, but delusional. The GOP's killing themselves, slowly. Although I don't wish for a Romney president, I can see one good thing if he does make it (which he won't). He'll be one of the worst Presidents of all time and probably be the nail in the GOP coffin.
"...the nail in the GOP coffin." Perhaps then the people on the other end of the political spectrum will be awkened too.
Perhaps some of them. I hear their generally a pretty hard-headed bunch, though.
The ones who are far to the right are definitely too far gone
Maybe you think this is a game where we can take a chance on stirring things up, this is not a game the SCOTUS is about as bad as it has ever been, if we don’t stick together we will lose and the TEA party and the GOP will win and they will hire cops and soldiers and do what ever is need to stay in power. We think things can’t get “that bad” in America we are frogs in a pot on the stove, if we don’t wake up and do something now, we can change the course, all we have to do is tell the American people about the Republican Party.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/supreme-court-may-be-most-conservative-in-modern-history/
the British have proportional representation parliament
each party receive representation by their voting percentage
It made it easier for them to get there, i would prefer something like that but not enough to trust a constitutional convention, of course they have parties, because that's what people do, they from groups of similar interest and support each other, but they have more since they can get a seat at the table, I do wish we had that but we don’t so I try to make do, I wish I had healthcare too but I’m an American.
I don't think the current system will last much longer
if the Consitution fails, things will get much worse
You are polluting this forum factsy.
so speaks the keeper of the true path; ALL HAIL ODIN!!!
I mean really I say this
"bullshit like yours I suppose, i mean this third party crap, the thing we must do is kill the GOP and make room for a new party, with winner take all elections it will always be two, what we need are a better two to choose from, in Britain everyone supports the national health plan because they got rid of their crazies, we could do the same if we stick together"
and this is your reasoned response?
"You are polluting this forum factsy."
lol At least your not using profane language anymore. We have exchanged many comments in which I have tried to reason with you. By this point i know what you are here for, 'to co-opt this movement into the dem party. Let me guess what your line is. 'All will be well when we hook-up with the dems.' Right??
do you guys decide on which lie you wil "stick to" I hear this from every troll "no need to make a case I already did" why don't you send me the link to the comment where you make any case at all as to how you see neither Romney nor Obama winning that we should not pick one and support them so we can have a voice, you can't because you never have. Of course I remember when you would PM me about how you would vote for Obama, back when you thought I was just another fish.
Whoa factsy, "fuck you." It's not surprising..... sign of real frustration on your part. Are the veins popping in your neck? Is your face turning Red? Seven replies to me, and counting, wow!
Perhaps you are right to criticize me for responding to your comments, after all you just go round and round and never say anything, hope I didn't scare you or anything, did a grownup walk into the room?
Do all this outside the OWS forum, and do away with the dems too while you are 'out there.' You are polluting this forum factsy."
So speaks Odin keeper of the true path, holy overseer of The One True Way!!!
PS fuck you
I think the fear that this nation, and all its #1 propaganda, may be a farce is simply too much for people to handle.
As long as there is someon to point at and say "Thats the bad guy" then no one really takes a look at themselves.
Thats my guess anyways...
ANd I agree Obama is a lock for 2012 (no bankers have gone to jail, and it keeps happening with NO penalties)..
Oh yeah. I've talked to a couple people who have basically said, once they began to realize some of the things going on, they were basically shocked. Disbelief. Denial. Depression. I've known about a lot of it for decades, the thing that's surprised me the most is the sheer number and depth of the problems. There is not one single aspect of human existence that hasn't been tainted, twisted or corrupted in some way. It's truly staggering.
Well get a grip. Snap out of it. Stop whining & attacking your fellow OWS supporters and start doing something positive.
Never seen men whining so much. Big babies. Get to work.
"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man."
Looks who's whining. Fucking tool. This will be my last comment to you.
Fuck you. right wing wacko!
You can see the uncomfortable look people get on their face when they have voted for D/R all their life and you start listing off criminal aspects.
They usually come back with a comment about the other side, like a well trained dog. Or they shut down all together.
Once people become awoken, they never go back.
How true. We also have, unfortunately, a new 'friend' to the forum. You'll meet him soon, if you haven't already. He just called me a "right-wing whako." Classic!
Fuck, I though vq was bad. "You ain't seen nuthin' yet."
repubsRtheprob (0) - seems to me to be too familiar with the forum to be new - more likely a recycled/incarnated attacker.
I see it gnomunny.
Oh yeah. Many others do as well, I'm sure. Thanks.
Your welcome. Being an independent thinker is no longer acceptable on here.
damn right it's not
Be careful, it's toxic to agree with me. You could well be -100 by morning. (I lost 240 pts over-night) lol Anyone who doesn't want to see this forum turn into election central is getting voted down in blocks, and in at least factsrfun's case multiple pseudonyms. Their objective is clear. They are trying to co-opt this movement into the dem party where it will become ineffective. Keep in mind though that the people who are making th true sacrifices, and who know what this struggle is about, know better.
I see what you mean, and have twinkled in response. Not that it'll do much good. Screw those numbers, Odin, that's just feel-good shit for the children and the unenlightened. One of the shills the other day congratulated Matt for topping 10000, as if it was some kind of reward. Seems I lost a few hundred since yesterday as well. So f---ing what, eh?
Correct - content is what is important.
I bet i get to 0 pts. before you? lol
I love a good challenge!
me too.
I'll race ya!! ;-)
Reply to below, of course.
You're on....and you get a 443 pt. handi-cap!
He cant help shilling. It's in his blood.
The dems aren't nearly as perfect as the GOP, the GOP is perfectly evil, while the Ds will let anybody in, they just don't have the purity standards, some call that a weakness, I don't.
I'm coming up with 12 Republican nays on NDAA 10% of the nay votes, not bad for the GOP, too bad there are so many of them in congress, though this one would have failed with fewer Rs in there.
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You seem to "forget" that indefinite detention was codified by NDAA 2012 - a bill with bipartisan sponsorship (like NDAA 2013 is) that passed BOTH houses of Congress with huge bipartisan majorities before being signed into law by "Democratic" president and corporate puppet Barack Obama. If you removed ALL of the Republicans from both houses, NDAA 2012 would STILL have been passed by their corporate puppet brothers in the Democratic Party.
but since the repubs wrote ndaa 2012 then we wouldn't have it (if we removed all repubs)
Right?
Wrong you lying 1%er, 2/3 of the Democrats voted against NDAA 2013 and NDAA 2012 in the house, no Republicans no NDAA, the facts are the facts, even if you don’t like them.
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39897
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/37467
tell me if this bills will appear in voting bulletin? most definitely not. so why even bother yourself with voting process.
actually I do believe a number of Democrats will be talking about these votes in their voting bulletins, the GOP will mostly hide theirs, but believe it or not there are places where even the GOP will be proud of how they voted, we could change that; by spreading the truth
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTbLslkIR2k&feature=youtu.be
thanks for the link.
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I say voting no longer matters: watch this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTQ1WOC9RgY
see also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R_jT015UdU&feature=youtu.be
I think all of the above mattered.
Obama! Obama! Factsrfun! Obama! I cant thank you enough for your tireless day-in, day-out efforts in praise of our glorious leader! So what if he's corporate-funded like Mittens? Who isn't? So what if he demands the same power to make Americans disappear that Bush/Cheney had? Who wouldn't? Black or White, Might is Right, right? And that whole drone thing has been blown WAY out of proportion. I mean the technology, targeting and triggermen are getting better all the time, right? Cant deliver Democracy without SOME form of Death from Above, right? And so what if Obamacare sets the precedent for government to tell us what to buy and penalize us if we dont. It's all for the greater good, right! O-BA-MA! O-BA-MA! Join in, Jart! O-BA-MA!
You may have to up your game a bit, if the bosses see this you might get fired.
You should research the repeal of Glass Steagall
could you send the link? what was the HR number when they did that?
362 YEAS in the House - 207 R's and 157 D's - http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1999/roll570.xml
90 YEAS in the Senate - http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=106&session=1&vote=00354&TB_iframe=true&width=720&height=540
Bipartisan support for failed deregulation policies that helped create the financial collapse.
Even way back in 99 about half the Ds saw it coming with 86 voting against this in the house while almost all the GOP were pushing it, that’s what I been saying all along, we don’t need the Rs cause the Ds are two parties in one (we’d need to split it)
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/8065?s=party
Thanks for the HR number
How do you propose splitting the Dem party? Wouldn't that essentially be creating a new party?
Of course it would, this would happen as we either drove the corporatists from the party or pulled the populist from it, it is the only way really, you must reveal the GOP for what it is thus reducing their portion of the vote to 1%, then by action in the primaries, but most likely as we see in the far northeast eventually the GOP gets so weak that independents can win, little by little weaken the GOP to their proper 1% of the vote, then one day voting for someone other than a D won't be handing it to a Republican, I know all about "Why not start now" the answer is this GOP is really that bad, and things just can't wait that long, we must move quickly, the quickest way to where we want to go is right over the dead body of the GOP.
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OK so let's take the first one, no need to go further if you're just full of shit, so I see 104 Ds against NDAA and 14 for it, while there are 222 Rs fore it and only 77 Rs against it, now I’m against it where do you stand?
Should I say asshole now?
Agreed. You ARE an asshole, Factrfun. Now what say we get to the truth: NDAA is an annual event on which many votes are taken: some for substance but most for show. Let's stick to FINAL votes - the only ones that count - and let's pick a SPECIFIC year and bill. Now reply with an LOC.gov (Library of Congress) link to the FINAL vote on the specific year and bill you wish to discuss...
So getting to the numbers on the link that you provided, or are you just full of shit as I suspected? ASSHOLE
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I don't know, f. You rail against us third-party guys but then say you want to start one. I think your so fixated on being a Dem, you can't see the contradiction in that. I see no reason to split the Dem party. Why not just pull like-minded Dems into an existing third-party, next time around, of course?
I fully agree nothing can be done this time, third-party wise.
I am fixated on destroying the Republican Party before it destroys America, or have I not been clear about that?
Let me help you with an early link:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/do-republicans-serve-a-purpose-in-american-politic/
I'm with you.FrF.
The tea party can be very helpful in destroying the republican party. several states have TP candidates running and Dems are seeing some moderate repubs coming over to the dems. So tp can help facilitate repub demise.
Amongst other strategies.
The TEA party is taking a very conservative party father to the right, and the dems are following with no real pressure from the left to fight for the people, I think we must show the Madison TEA party what people will do when they are scared and hungry, I think we must move away from the center and start fighting for the people. I know it will get worse, but I think we have to throw out anybody who talks bi-partisan. If we don't push back this bullshit that money equals freedom then they will use the words of the founding fathers (and the Court) to take America back for the holders of inherited wealth (ie the Kings) remember they are fighting for their children too, this will get ugly
I think that is an accurate prediction. If a real left wing does not build strength and exert consistent pressure, the far right TP will move the country yet further to the right. It's hard to believe since we've been moving right (even dem party proper) for 30 years. Remember Clinton was head of the Dem Leadership Council set up in the '80's to fight the "liberal, tax & spend, weak on defense" labels that repubs had effectively used to defeat left wingers. That was a major retreat from progressive principles.
We must grow and show that taxing the wealthy, spending on the working/middle class, & cutting military budget/actions is CORRECT.
And we can't be afraid of civil disobedience. Challenging unfair law is risky, but the police have abused us and their power. Just yesterday another cop was punished for illegal treatment of OWS protesters. It's too little, too late but it is a small start. And it is what has to happen. We must challenge the laws that allow police to cage us in the street, mace us,silence us & beat us! It is unconstitutional.
anyway. I'm ranting.
Peace
Here's a good Colbert with Chris Hayes, it seems the GOP has been filibustering disclosure and here I though Rand Paul was trying to pass it, just goes to show you got to watch them tricky bastards.
http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/thu-august-2-2012-chris-hayes
thanx. I'll enjoy this.
The police are in put in place to keep the peace. From what I have seen on the news, etc. Some protesters have been crossing the line or throwing objects at the officers and this causes them to react.
Oh yeah. "seen on the news"?
Well I've seen on the streets. I saw the police mislead protesters onto the Brooklyn bridge then arrest 900 of them. I also saw in the news that the courts found against the police. I saw on the streets many cases of unnecessary pepper spraying of peaceful protesters. I saw in the news recently that those police were punished. Several! Tony Bologny, the California campus dude, and others. Many other police were never prosecuted.
You don't know what your taklin about. The peaceful protesters are treated like criminals, Like rioters. The police come with overwhelming force, with riot gear. That is what creates the escalation!
The police cage us in, unreasonably, preventing us free movement around our city. "WHOSE STREETS? OUR STREETS!" New laws are implemented and enforced to silence us. No amplification? Why the fuck not?. We have huge crowds to address. We are protesting!, That means annoying the comfortable people to get them to act!. We're supposed to be loud. That is what protesting is!
You focus on the few incidents that the MSM presents in order to discredit this great peoples movement.
We disagree. Good luck in all your good efforts.
Peace
I understand your fixation. The main purpose of my comment, really, was in the question. What do you think? You've probably read what it takes to start a new party, it daunting. Wouldn't it be easier to try and mobilize disaffected voters around an existing party? How about we co-opt one of those? I think it would be easier.
Why not the Democrats? Let's co-opt them. They seem in the best position to win seats, whatever we do we cannot in any way increase the chance of a Republican winning the down side of that is too great.
In case you wonder how we do that we throw out every one that even whispers bi-partisan (like the TEA)
find some willing to speak against war
I believe Dennis K has said a few things, hell even Obama ended one and is closing the other, but sometime it's easier to be mad than to read stuff
Obama has continued and expanded the number of countries subject to US aggression
Dennis K was cut out die to redistricting
How many lives saved if Nader had kept his word, and kept his name off the ballot in Florida, we will never know.
none
the election was fixed
Now as recall Obama ended the Iraq War, or am I wrong on that? Do you think in Libra he went too far?
and Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen
I don't know if that's possible. Let me think on that.
I wasn't on the forum yesterday or I would've answered sooner. I'm not that slow. Really. ;-)
you think we can change the country, but we are not able to seize control of a party? well lucky for me I don't worry about such things, I think if I just tell the truth, the rest will work itself out and if we can't take them over, the truth can if we tell it
I'm not sure if we could seize that particular party. It's entirely possible we could, I just don't hold out much hope. I'm just a skeptic, to a fault. You know I haven't followed politics for years until OWS, facts, so I'm playing catch-up. I think we talked about it before. I also think we talked about my not being concerned with this Nov, I'm trying to put something together for 2016.
Dunno about Dennis K.
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it's fired them up, and driven the nations agenda and held the government hostage to filibuster and anti-tax terrorists.
There is a lot of untapped voters in the land.
How can we reach all the dissed masses, and get them educated and registered.
We need an organized, targeted, national voter's drive. and a candidate that will actually inspire the people. the media don't mention my Justice Party candidate, Rocky Anderson.
Could NYC and other places get some left candidates elected that are favorable to the cause, or is it out of the question not gonna happen.
We need people more liberal than Obama. He's a right-centrist.
occupy the conventions
Bernie Sanders 2016 http://votesmart.org/candidate/27110/bernie-sanders
Register to vote here...any state. Register early (30 days before election is a common requirement.)
PS Glad your back ZenDog!!! Fired up!
Coming from you, Zen, I'm not sure how to interpret that. ;-)
Let me help you catch up I have been watching closely since I left the service in 1980, I jumped right in working for change and supporting Anderson, then I got Reagan and started learning things. Now here’s the deal the SCOTUS is the only body in government capable of really stopping what OWS represents, if Romney wins, we are in huge trouble for decades to come, this may truly be our only shot.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/supreme-court-may-be-most-conservative-in-modern-history/
Like I told you last winter, he's not gonna win. Trust me, I've got the inside scoop. But, don't tell anybody else, it's supposed to be a secret. ;-)
Did they throw Dennis K out?
The repeal of the Glass Steagall Act had overwhelming, veto-proof support, to my recollection, and it was signed into law by President Clinton, DEMOCRAT, and to add insult to injury, he gave one of the signing pens to Sandy Weill, former Chairman of Citigroup, which of course is one of the banks that caused so much human misery world-wide. This comment should be worth at least a minus 5.....time for you and your multiple pseudonyms to get to work......don't you think factsy?? lol
To his credit Weill regrets what he did, not so for Clinton, though.
Even way back in 99 about half the Ds saw it coming with 86 voting against this in the house while almost all the GOP were pushing it, that’s what I been saying all along, we don’t need the Rs cause the Ds are two parties in one (we’d need to split it)
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/8065?s=party
people make mistakes, I welcome those who voted for Nader to join me now in support of Obama, hell I even welcome those who voted for Bush
what about all these votes cast this year nothing to say about those I see
Yes "people do make mistakes," including me, so I welcome you to join this defiant revolution, and figure out a way to contribute to it constructively, minus all the partisanship.
soon as you tell me about how neither Obama nor Romney will win, then I will quit caring about that, till then I think it's very important, of course you could decide to let the facts persuade you
Considering how Obama has grabbed the 'baton' from Bush, and ramped up its assault on our freedoms, and its support of the corrupt status quo, you are naieve if you think it makes a difference?
you are becoming more childish with each comment odin,
as with all cons you step away from what is the key element under discussion to throw vague aspersions, you are reveling more of your 1% self as well
lol The reason that I have become more "childish with each comment," is because I know who I am replying to factsy.
I know I am but what are you
I am a person who will not let you try to co-opt this movement into the democratic party where a sea change in the way our political, and financial institutions will not be possible.
Do you really think your circular arguments will do anything? Do you think there are those that are stilled fooled by you? I guess given your persistence I am lucky you are so inept, so is the nation, and the 99%.
lol No one is fooled by you, and your foolish belief that we should all become dems.
Yet you work so hard to distract people, I think you, fear the truth as do all supporters of the 1%. You certainly avoid truth here on the site that's for sure. But it does not matter I tell the truth others can hear, or not the choice is theirs.
'This person' who you have labeled a troll...supporter of the 1%...a republican.. and whatever else will be back in the streets of NYC this weekend. Where will you be factsy? Let me guess, trying to have this movement co-opted by the dem party from the comforts of your adobe. Right?!
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Going for the gold in getting banned vvvBrucie? What is your current record? 10? more?
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How many bans are ya gonna go 4 2day vvvBrucie? Will U be attempting to set a new record? In honor of the Olympics or something?
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Did U get banned again vvvBrucie?
The fact that indefinite detention even came up for a vote is disgusting. That the people are allowing them to even think of it is really disgusting.
The fact we arent just GETTING THE HELL out of Afghan is sickening.
Focusing on nuke arms reduction while currently bombing 5 nations is pathetic.
This is all just fodder for the masses. Nothing is changing. And nothing is going to regardless of who gets elected from these two parties.
I saw where you like to count up the votes did you see these? Or do these not matter to you?
The vote on NDAA? I believe it was 93-7. Another landslide screwing for the people to shovel in their mouths..
err did the house vote on that too or are you just being selective, let’s see oh yeah I linked it here, so what do you make of 299 yea to 120 nays and I think all of the nays coming from the 191 democrats, if only we had, had more eh, don’t you agree more democrats and we could of stopped NDAA?
http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39897
If you can't see the underlying trend here over the last 30 years, then there is no point in discussin this.
I guess it depends on if they have ever served in the Senate or not, according to your logic.
FAce it. They dont fuckin like you. None of em do. They dont care what you think/want/say/anything. They are in DC, you are a lowly citizen.
Now hc don't you think this comment expose you to revealing your total support of the 1% and their politcal party the GOP? Yes the trend has sucked since Reagan in 1980 and that is when the GOP went crazy, but you know that you love it.
Your inablity to see anyone who is different than you as something besides GOP/Libertarian is very telling of the massacre the media has done to this nation's ability to think/speak/discuss.
I am very capable of listening to you explain how niether Obama nor Romney will become President, go ahead.
Apparently the people are either too lazy or too dumb to come up with something better.
Which one is it? Because the vast majority dont want either...
And why haven't you you come up with something better?. I'm sure you don't apply the insults of "too lazy or too dumb" to yourself. (thats only for the rest of the country.)
You are above us all I guess. So educate us. Have you come up with something better?
of course he has "something better" all would be Kings do, makin' things the "I" say they should be, is what the 1% is all about
He seems more interested in attacking dems, defending repubs, insulting anyone who disagrees with him, all while rarely suggesting any positive solutions/actions.
He seems like an anti dem partisan republican!
He ain't kiddin me.
http://www.justicepartyusa.net
Looks interesting. Never heard of them. The agenda looks a lot like the democratic party agenda.
Didja notice that.?
Certainly the pres candidate ain't on the ballot anywhere, and they have no other candidates for any other office but certainly the agenda sounds great.
If you support them why have you never mentioned them in our many exchanges. You have many negative attacks on the democrats but you have never mentioned this 3rd party. Why is that? don't you want to increase their support.
In any event maybe instead of of insulting everyone as "too lazy or too dumb" you can discuss all the issues your 3rd party supports?
Whatever you think is best.
Good luck in all your good efforts
I've spoken of him on here plenty, even top posted it, but this is OWS so I dont delve into it too much.
He's already on quite a few ballots, and we almost have in on in Florida. Yes, its very similar to the Dems platform, just not tied at the hip to corporations land war ike the Dems. Which means less exposure, but a free soul.
Here is an incredible video that you should check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZLccjU4hqI
I'm afraid he can't win.
But rest assured I support his agenda and I will expend much energy trying to get the party that shares your agenda to push it a few steps forward even though they are bought off, and corrupted.
I'm with you. We will make progress. The most important item is money out of politics. (did he include that in his agenda)
Only donations of $100. Per person. Thats it.
He cant win. We arent doing this with the intention of winning in the greatest upset of all time. Its about expanding the expectations of people, about themselves. We are out helping a new guy, who else is helping somehting different? Thats whats up. Creating something new. If I still believed in Dems, I'd still be campaigning for them. Fuck em.
In fact Rocky had been a lifelong Democrat until he quit last year, writing a scathing letter to the DNC in response to a fundraising email:
http://rockyanderson2012.tumblr.com/post/16589120187/rockys-letter-to-the-democrats
"fuck 'em"? what is that about.?
Can't you have one exchange without the school yard nonsense. And once again you have anti dem rhetoric. I get it you hate the dems.
But you support the justice party who has a dem agenda.
Good luck i all your good efforts.
so is this your way of saying that it actually does matter who we vote for? does this mean you are going to join the cause and start working to defeat Republicans as all true believers in OWS are doing and will continue to do?
Only someone who doesnt ever go to their local occupy would post something like that.
Please go to your GA and spew this idiotic nonsense. "Ya, lets vote for criminals!!"
Morons like you are a big reason why the numbers are down. We were diversified and uniting against corruption in the beginning. Then the hacks tried to turn it into a pro-Dem movement and hence alienated about 75% of the population.
You don't think the relentless vicious republican attacks minimized our support? What about the repub bullhorn fox news? didn't their efforts diminish our numbers. And the anti free speech/assembly bills/police tactics didn't diminish our numbers?
It was the democratic OWS supporters on this little used site? That doesn't hold water. Sounds like you are just anti dem.
I am a dem! I support OWS. I can express my opinion without diminishing the OWS support. In fact OWS would be nowhere without dem leaning progressives.
You should get down on your knees and thank the left wing, 'cause there would be no OWS without the left wing.
And who are you to accuse anyone of "alienating 75% of the population"
Ridiculous statement.
Congress has a 9% approval rating.
People are leaving the two major parties in record numbers.
Those who only see criminals and dont vote are the largest voting bloc (40% of the population).
Independents are the largest registered voting bloc (47million)...Dems have about 42 mill, and R has around 38mill.
Left and progressive are much different than mindless Democrat party supporters.
Do you ever vote for the socialist party? Socialist Workers Party?
Check out the Justice Party. Or Green. Or any of hte other choices without the massive, 100yrs of built in corruptoin that the D and R parties have.
Where are you from?
You want to "verify I participate"?. Ha! Are the OWS police.?
Can I comment on this site if I don't participate? You are trying to find something to attack me personally with. Yes? Some way to discredit me?
Because I support Dems.? That seems wrong. I thought Dems were allowed on this site. I thought Dems made up OWS. The people I've met at OWS are dems (I won't tell you where or how often I protest)
In fact I only see repubs attacking OWS. Dem Politicians support OWS.
No, there are plenty of Dem supporters in Occupy. Im just saying most of the time the Rah Rah Dem bullshit is asked politiely to save it for the campaign office.
We are going for real change here, not a new bumpersticker.
You are wrong that the 40% who stay home do so because "they see criminals" they are apathetic (mostly poor left leaning) who see no hope that anyone will help them.
Whatever numbers the ind, D's or R's have only one (the D's) have the right agenda and can also get elected.
I support greens, socialist policies, and such. I think it is unproductive and hurtful to the movement to call dems "mindless". Since that is where our supporters mostly come from.(and it's untrue!)
The comment shows you are anti dem. Do you support OWS?
Where I'm from is unimportant and I think I will keep my personal info private if it's all the same to you.
Where you are from can then lead to verifying you actually participate.
Over half the nation is anti DEM and REP. Get over yourself. You are endorsing criminals, the status quo, and everything else that 100+ years of two party regime brings along with it.
I read somewhere that the majority of americans are independent, socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Sucks that that lunatic fringes in both parties have gained so much power.
Thats how they want it. A unified public means that ALL OF THIS BULLSHIT AT THE TOP STOPS.
Keep the sheep pointing hooves at each other and they all get to skate free.
I vote to defeat America's enemy, the Republican Party, if you gave a damn you would too.
save it? Aren't I allowed to say what I want? Are you an OWS official? Have I broken some rule? I think I'm allowed to express my political opinion on this political site.
why don't you stop by and shout your love for Romney? see how far you get, I live in AZ we know who the emeny is we have no problem calling out the GOP dogs
the fact that Republicans are re-elected...