Forum Post: Utilities try to help restore power but are turned away.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 13, 2012, 1:21 p.m. EST by SingleVoice
(158)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Crews from Alabama were insulted, called scabs and scumbags and turned away when they showed up to help restore power in New York and New Jersey. It's sad when you have to be a union worker to help fellow citizens with their basic needs. What is wrong with the people there that would deny their neighbors help because of their intolerance. Typical crap from "so-called" compassionate people.
Crews from Georgia were also turned away. A man from Florida received a black eye in the confrontation that resulted from them showing up to help with utility lines. People in the South help their neighbors...of course they have been thru many of these storms before and know that they can count on fellow citizens in other states for help. It's sad when union workers deny help from right to work states. How is that fair to the people suffering from the wrath of this storm. People have been quiet about this as well as the media. Maybe the public in NY & NJ need to know what has been going on.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2953596/posts http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2954353/posts
Many of those crews were not up to snuff, did not understand overhead line safety because in their states lines are buried. Many trucks did not pass inspection.
The union story is a front. Lies.
That's absolutely not true...The power goes out in the south from downed trees the same as anywhere else. Also, that would be no reason to act so hostile to people who really want to help by insulting and assaulting them. You act like trades in the south are unqualified. They have to pass the same qualifications and rigid standards as any other state. That is only the lie being told to keep the public from being outraged. I think the people without power for so long would have a different view.
No, that is information from friends who work for Con Ed and LIPA.
Tree's do go down in the south, but codes are different in both regions. For instance building codes are much stricter up north. Electrical safety codes are also. Many southern trucks were accepted, some weren't.
Actually, codes are much stricter in the south especially along the east coast and gulf. The south deals with many more hurricanes and tropical storms every year as part of life, which include downed trees and power lines, etc. Building codes including electrical codes are very tough in hurricane and tornado regions along the east coast and throughout the south, gulf and midwest. I'm guessing that after this, the northeast will adopt many of those codes for any rebuilding or at least, they should.
Of course you will hear that line from ConEd and LIPA employees. They are the ones that don't want the help because they feel threatened to not make all that overtime. It works for them to make the crews that come appear to be unqualified. It sounds like union employees in the northeast have a very low opinion of non-union employees from elsewhere. The only reason trucks were finally accepted was because the gov't had to step in and grant waivers finally. It took a week to finally let them in.
I'm glad people from all over were finally allowed to help restore power to people in devastated areas. I personally know what it is like to lose so much and feel the frustration of help coming too slowly so I hope there is a fast recovery for all.
FYI- my ConEd service was restored by a team including a man who came to NY from Mississippi
I guess it depends on where in the city or state you are. I'm glad you got your power restored and that a crew from Mississippi was able to help you. There were other places that haven't been so lucky. These events happened last week. Some of the crews just went to other cities and states that welcomed their help. The Alabama crew ended up in Virginia.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57544237/ala-utilities-our-crews-not-turned-away-from-n.j/.... http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/non-union_utility_crews_welcom.html. http://www.politickernj.com/60797/alabama-power-company-recalled-workers-due-union-membership-requirement
So it appears from your own sources that they could only help if they joined the union. What bullshit...Deny the people help unless the help joins the union so they can take union fees from their pay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klPSoD0-XgA
Here's one about a Florida crew.
http://theunionlabelblog.com/2012/11/12/ny-union-prevented-florida-utility-workers-from-sandy-recovery/
"The greedy union leaders want them to sign over to them contributions of 22.5 percent of each employee’s gross salary to the IBEW annuity fund; payments of $9.75 an hour to the union’s health and welfare fund; 3 percent of their gross salary to the union’s “craft division skill improvement fund”; 3 percent of each worker’s gross salary to the union’s National Electrical Benefit Fund; and lesser amounts to other funds."
Is there anything left for the worker to take home to his family?
As usual, with the unions it's about money instead of compassion.
According to your own source, if you go to the original article, no crew was prevented from working. The issue was resolved. No one was required to join the union.
Right...they went to other states or went home rather than sign away their wages. So the people in trouble didn't get the use of their help.
They didn't actually have to. "The dispute was settled the weekend after the storm hit following intervention by the American Public Power Association, which represents 2,000 municipal utilities across the nation. Nicholas Braden, a spokesman for the association, said although it took several days to resolve, he did not believe it delayed workers from arriving to the region" http://www.newsday.com/long-island/fla-utility-union-delayed-crews-for-lipa-1.4205898.
Your link is not coming up so I'm not able to see the whole article but I'm glad to hear that. The things I questioned happened in the week after the storm. They may have gotten it straightened out but not before many crews moved on or went home. A good friend of mine was in one of those Florida crews and they weren't treated very well by some.
I'm just saddened that bureaucratic bullshit delayed or ended help flowing in from elsewhere. I'm tired of the bullshit. And I'm more tired of people defending the bullshit. We are all neighbors and Americans. Why does the fact that people weren't union cause such a stir and delay progress. I don't have a problem with private sector unions but I have a problem with people being forced to join unions. I thought this was a free country with freedom of choice. And I have a problem with gov't employee unions where the taxpayer not the wage earner is paying for their benefits. Unions are like little gov'ts of their own, power using the people. And why do people that say they are for fixing problems in our government, defend problems and bureaucracy in our communities?
I wouldn't say claim that union behavior has always been what it should be, but if you look at where we would be without them, I think the good far outweighs the bad. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-morris/when-unions-are-strong-am_b_846802.html
That was true in the early 1900's when unions were very important. But they are not relevant today. There is no more child labor abuse in this country and people have more choices of where they want to work (at least when the economy is healthy). People are fully capable of negotiating their own salaries and paying for their own 401k's and healthcare. The cost to the individual for both of those if far less than what they are paying the unions. They could keep half their salary which is what they are giving to the unions today and choose how they want to spend that money. Also, they could donate to whomever they choose if they choose to donate rather than letting the union donate their money for them to whomever the union chooses. The unions are a lobby group of their own financed by their employees and the people they give contributions too. The union leaders are wealthy while their members are not. Another abuse of power.
Also, if people choose to join a union, I don't have a problem with private sector unions. I do have a problem if people are FORCED to join them. People should always have a choice of whether to turn over their earned income to a union or not. The unions at this time collect half of a wage earner's gross salary. I think that is criminal. People that talk about a living wage and then support the confiscation of money in order to have a job confuse me. The unions have a monopoly on all employees where there is no right to work laws.They are as bad a "corporation" as any maybe even worse because people are forced to join their corporation in order to get a job yet no one seems to see that.
I DO have a problem with gov't employee unions because it is not the wage earner but the taxpayer that pays the benefits of those employees. Why should a taxpayer pay for the benefits of a gov't employee while they are paying for their own benefits. No wonder the federal and state budgets are in such a mess. And if a gov't employee goes on strike, the taxpayer who is paying for his benefits suffers. Something seems really wrong with that.
While the set of problems may have changed somewhat since 1900, as in the issue of child labor, at least in the industrial sector (there is still child labor in the agricultural sector) the issues of wealth disparity and poverty have not gone away. Both of these are very much on the rise. When you say "at least when the economy is healthy", that's a big if. It is not healthy, and wealth disparity is a big reason for that. The abilty of individuals, in all but the higher skilled areas, where there may be a shortage of applicants to negotiate will always be at an inherent disadvantage. I don't know where you got the idea that employees are giving "half their salary" to unions. Even this rabidly anti-union site acknowledges that the average is 1.5% to 5%. http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2012/04/26/yet-another-reason-why-todays-unions-suck-dues-devour-wage-increases/
State & fed govt budgets are "such a mess" because of republican irresponsible fiscal policy. 2 wars on cr card, tax cuts for thewealthy, world wide economic crash.
Uinons didn't do any of that why should those hard working decent public workers pay for the mistakes you repubs made.
And unions are absolutely needed today because otherwise greedy, selfish corps run roughshod over individuals "negotiating for themselves"
"there is power in the union"!. "you can't scare me, I'm stickin with the union"!
Being anti union is anti American worker, and pro corp 1% plutocrats.
Nothing is that black & white. You think forcing people to join a union in order to secure a job is good. Therefore the 50% of their earnings confiscated by the union must also be good. So after paying the union half of your earnings and the federal, state and local gov'ts another 25% of your earnings, you take home 25% of your earned salary....yeah, that's fair. Stop making everything about your narrow view and look at things from the standpoint of freedom to choose and loss of freedom to choose and then being punished financially for not having a choice.
I think you have a very narrow view of everything. The collapse of the economy was because of democrats as well as republicans repealing and putting into place laws that benefit their bottom line, most notably Glass-Steagle. Both parties are responsible but this discussion about unions has nothing to do with that. If you want to join a union, go right ahead but don't force everyone to do that. If you feel you need a "negotiator" because you are either incapable or not able to negotiate your own terms, than by all means join the union. I'm against taking away people's choice if they don't want to. That is anti American.
Also, gov't unions used to be against the law because it is wrong to have taxpayers foot the bill for workers benefit packages. They should pay for their own like the private union members do and the the rest of Americans do.
Your suggestion that union dues are 50% of a paycheck is absolutely not true.
"there is strength in numbers" This is a trueism unrelated to parties, or corps/unions.
The individual has no leverage with corps. Unions provide that leverage.
Without unions hardworking Americans have had stagnant wages for 30 years.
If our leaders would support unions we would have had less outsourcing, higher wages, better, cheaper healthcare, and intact pensions.
Unions serve decent hardworking Americans. Corps and their repub tools have been busting those unions and hurting those decent American workers for decades.
I stand with the decent American workers, the 99%. You stand with the corp 1%?
Actually, I stand with people with a brain and the power to think for themselves.
This is part of the letter the electric crews from Florida and other states were told to sign. They were told they had to be union to work to restore power to the people in Long Island. I calculated all the figures in the letter and the union would have taken half their salary.
"The assent letter — if signed — made out-of-state workers temporary members of the union, who receive Long Island’s prevailing wage, regardless of what they received at their home utility. Included in the contract that temporary union members sign, according to a copy of it provided to Newsday: contribution of 22.5 percent of each employee’s gross salary to the IBEW annuity fund; payments of $9.75 an hour to the union’s health and welfare fund; 3 percent of their gross salary to the union’s “craft division skill improvement fund”; 3 percent of each worker’s gross salary to the union’s National Electrical Benefit Fund; and lesser amounts to other funds."
http://theunionlabelblog.com/2012/11/12/ny-union-prevented-florida-utility-workers-from-sandy-recovery/
Using that info and the tax rates of New York City, a union employee making as an example $40 per hour or $1600 per week would have $360/week deducted for IBEW annuity fund, $9.75/hour or $390 per week for union health and welfare fund, $48/week for unions craft division and $48 per week for Benefit fund. That's $846 for the union out of the $1600 earned and that's not counting the "lesser amounts to other funds". Those fees are taken out of gross earnings. The federal takes approx $70.19 per allowance per week for income tax plus 6.2% or $99.20 for social security, plus 1.45% or $23.20 for Medicare. The state of New York takes 6.85% or $109.60 for state income tax and the city of NY takes between 2.907% and 3.648% or (going by the lower figure) $46.51 for city income tax. The total left of the $1600 the employee earned after union fees is $754 and then after taxes ($348.70) he's left with $405.30 and that's if he claims 1 allowance on his taxes. The union gets nearly 50% of his earnings, the gov't gets just under 25% of his earning and he only gets just over 25% of his earnings.
I used a salary of $83000 per year ($1600/week) but according to the website below, an electrician makes roughly $60000/year in NY or $29/hour.
http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Electrician-l-New-York,-NY.html
Let's take that same employee in Miami, FL where his salary is accurately $46,000 per year or $885 per week ($22/hr). He pays no union dues and "fees". His taxes would be approx. $40/week for 1 allowance plus $54.87 for social security, plus $13 for Medicare. There are no state or local income taxes in Florida so his take home pay is $777.13 for the week. The Florida wage earner takes home almost twice as much as the NYC union worker. Now the Florida worker can set up his own Roth 401K ($50/week) and put what he wants in it for his retirement instead of the union deciding what they will do with his pension money. He can also collect his own interest on that money instead of the Union collecting it. The Florida worker can also buy his own health insurance at a cost of $100 per week for a top plan. So even after he takes out what he would spend on his own health insurance and 401k, he's still bringing home $627.13 (much more than the union worker). Also, keep in mind that food is much less expensive in Florida, homes are much more affordable (average home price in MIami is $150000), the cost of living is much less so his take home pay is worth even more because it purchases more.
Yes...keep letting the unions run your lives and take your money for their own wealth. They are nothing but corporations under the disguise of helping people. They're corporate crooks as much as any other corporation. They only get away with it because people have been brainwashed to believe they are for "the people". The only difference between a union and a corporation is that people are forced to join the union.
I disagree, & I don't believe you. You are clearly anti union.
So that is your business.
Peace. Good luck in all your good efforts.
Of course they are not on the scale of corp execs but the unfairness is still the same. I guess it's okay for the people the union execs supposedly represent make less than 17% of the union exec salary.
Also, the amount that they take from a salary was listed in the letters they gave the non-union electricians to sign. I calculated the results using the figures from the letter. I posted all that info above. So I guess the letters given to the non-union crews were just to take advantage of them? The percentages the union wanted them to sign away don't apply to their current members? They were just screwing these out of town workers.
What is it with people that don't see the similarity between corps and unions regarding abuse of power. I was in a union. They did nothing for me but force me to join to get work in my field. When the work ended, we were all sent on our merry way with nothing to show for all the money we paid in but we could keep paying in to the union anyway to keep our membership with no work or income. I did that like a blind sheep until I couldn't afford it and finally realized that they weren't looking out for me or my friends in the same field. It was all about their power and wealth. That was in the 1970's, a similar economic crisis like today, but I don't see where much has changed in the northeast since then.
It was better to move to where I, the employee was in control of my employment and not the union. I have negotiated my own terms of employment since then throughout my life and came out better with higher wages and more take home pay and benefits that are mine to keep and not a company or union's benefits that you lose when you leave.
As I've said, I'm not anti union, I'm anti forcing people to join a union in order to work. Unions should be a choice not a requirement. There are cases and certain fields where a union can still be important. I'm for freedom to make personal choices. That is what liberty is. If you want to join a union, go ahead but don't force everyone else to do it. Just because you believe in them, doesn't mean everyone else has to. They are a corporation too.
We are seeing more and more of our liberty taken away but the same people that see that and complain about that, still support authoritarian institutions that run everything and have all the power in certain areas of the country like unions.
The threat to our liberty is from the corp 1% oligarchs who have bought our govt, and squeezed our middle class.
We need unions to battle against that evil, greedy, selfish. outsourcing, do nothing, corp 1% oligarchs!
You and I disagree. I stand with workers against corp 1% oligarchs. You appear to stand against the 99%. You certainly spew the corp 1% line.
Peace. Good luck in all your good efforts.
This may show why the union needs to collect so much of the workers pay. How else would they be able to maintain these salaries.
This list below is taken from the IBEW website.
Name Title Total Compensation EDWIN HILL INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT $381,592.00 LINDELL LEE INTL SECRETARY-TREASURER $315,437.00 PHIL FLEMMING INTL VICE PRESIDENT $272,913.00 SALVATORE CHILIA INTL SECRETARY-TREASURER $253,520.00 LAWRENCE NEIDIG SR EXEC ASST TO IP $250,199.00 TED JENSEN INTL VICE PRESIDENT $248,913.00 CURTIS HENKE INTL VICE PRESIDENT $245,292.00 MICHAEL MOWREY INTL VICE PRESIDENT $244,650.00 DONALD SIEGEL INTL VICE PRESIDENT $244,001.00 ROBERT KLEIN INTL VICE PRESIDENT $242,575.00
http://www.unionfacts.com/union/International_Brotherhood_of_Electrical_Workers
If the average electrical worker salary in New York is $60,000 per year, these union leaders salaries seem a little out of touch with the whole "fair" wage thing. And keep in mind that the union takes nearly half of that $60,000 and the govt takes another 25% so the union worker takes home roughly $15000/year. I'm glad to see that the employees are so happy that these leaders are doing such a good job advocating for themselves rather than the "decent hard working Americans". It would appear that they are "squeezing workers". Union leader greed? I stand against corporate greed but I also stand against union greed that would take from hard working Americans to line their own pockets as well. They sell a good line to their members but maybe their members need to look a little deeper into who's taking their hard earned money and what they are doing with it.
These are very small exec salaries compared to the tens of millions corp execs take without earning. AND it is refreshing to see the transparency of putting their salaries on a public web site.
Thanks for showing us that the Union leaders are well paid but not obscenely (like the fat useless corp execs).
And Unions DO NOT take half of anyones paycheck.
Sorry. You are not being honest and clearly you're anti union.
What don't you believe? The amount of money stolen from a paycheck? That they are worse than a corporation because they force you to join them and give up half your earnings.
The quote in my post was from the letter the union wanted these electricians to sign. That is a fact and you can look that up yourself. I gave you one link but there are more.
Live in your dream world and when you're ready to wake up and face the truth, do your own research. It's hard to discuss logic with people that don't think logically so I'll leave you to your utopia world that doesn't exist.
It's so sad to see so many spout talking points that have no basis in fact. And it's even sadder to see so many giving up hard earned money to union corporations that spend it on their own wealth and political contributions.
Finally, I'm not anti private sector union if the workers are allowed to choose to be a member. I'm only anti union if the worker is FORCED to join. I am against gov't employee unions because I don't think the taxpayer should pay for their benefits while paying for their own benefits. I don't think that's fair.
How much of your paycheck does your union take? not in a union? I was in a union. They did nothing for me but take money from me. Problem was that I had no choice if I wanted a job. That is wrong in America. I believe in liberty and freedom to choose, not authoritarianism that requires me to pay to get a job. For people that are anti-corporation, I don't see any distinction between unions and corporations.
You are mistaken. Unions advocate for decent hard working Americans. Corporations take advantage, and squeeze workers.
We disagree,that's all. I stand with the American worker against the authoritarian corp 1% oligarchs. You stand with the corp 1% oligarchs.
Peace, Good luck to you in all your good efforts.
lies,. from freepers, surprise, surprise.
The unions lie because they don't want anyone to keep them from making all that overtime...no matter that people are desperate for electricity and really hurting from the lack of it.
Is con-ed still doing their lockout?
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Right to work states still have to follow OSHA laws and federal safety regulations. They just get to keep more of their money because they don't have a chunk taken as union dues and given to political campaigns.
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Then support them with your own money. Don't force someone who for example might support the green party to have money taken from their paycheck to support the dem party. The unions are just another corrupt lobby group pilfering the paychecks of hard working Americans for their own gain and power. The days of their real relevance are long over. Now they are just another political action group.
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unions should get those people higher wages
Those people have more take home pay than the union workers after all the union deductions and federal, state and local taxes. And they live in states with no state or local tax and lower costs of living. And they didn't need to give some corrupt union official and the gov't most of their pay.
example ?
This is part of the letter for the crews to sign.
"The assent letter — if signed — made out-of-state workers temporary members of the union, who receive Long Island’s prevailing wage, regardless of what they received at their home utility. Included in the contract that temporary union members sign, according to a copy of it provided to Newsday: contribution of 22.5 percent of each employee’s gross salary to the IBEW annuity fund; payments of $9.75 an hour to the union’s health and welfare fund; 3 percent of their gross salary to the union’s “craft division skill improvement fund”; 3 percent of each worker’s gross salary to the union’s National Electrical Benefit Fund; and lesser amounts to other funds."
Using that info and the tax rates of New York City, a union employee making as an example $40 per hour or $1600 per week would have $360/week deducted for IBEW annuity fund, $9.75/hour or $390 per week for union health and welfare fund, $48/week for unions craft division and $48 per week for Benefit fund. That's $846 for the union out of the $1600 earned and that's not counting the "lesser amounts to other funds". Those fees are taken out of gross earnings. The federal takes approx $70.19 per allowance per week for income tax plus 6.2% or $99.20 for social security, plus 1.45% or $23.20 for Medicare. The state of New York takes 6.85% or $109.60 for state income tax and the city of NY takes between 2.907% and 3.648% or (going by the lower figure) $46.51 for city income tax.
The total left of the $1600 the employee earned after union fees is $754 and then after taxes ($348.70) he's left with $405.30 and that's if he claims 1 allowance on his taxes. The union gets nearly 50% of his earnings, the gov't gets just under 25% of his earning and he only gets just over 25% of his earnings.
I used a salary of $83000 per year ($1600/week) but according to the website below, an electrician makes roughly $60000/year in NY.
http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Electrician-l-New-York,-NY.html
Let's take that same employee in Miami, FL where his salary is accurately $46,000 per year or $885 per week. He pays no union dues. His taxes would be approx. $40/week for 1 allowance plus $54.87 for social security, plus $13 for Medicare. There are no state or local income taxes in Florida so his take home pay is $777.13 for the week. The Florida wage earner takes home almost twice as much as the NYC union worker. Now the Florida worker can set up his own Roth 401K ($50/week) and put what he wants in it for his retirement instead of the union deciding what they will do with his pension money. The Florida worker can also buy his own health insurance at a cost of $100 per week for a top plan. So even after he takes out what he would spend on his own health insurance and 401k, he's still bringing home $627.13 (more than the union worker). Also, keep in mind that food is much less expensive in Florida, homes are much more affordable (average home price in MIami is $150000), the cost of living is much less.
put the numbers in clear tables
http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/basics
I thought what I wrote is pretty clear. Those workers didn't want to sign something that took most of their earnings. People on this site talk about living wages and then support organizations that take your money by force. A wage in one part of the country buys a lot more than a wage in another part of the country especially when you live in a right to work state and don't have to worry about being forced to join and pay a union in order to work.
You asked for an example. I gave you one. The math is correct. It doesn't seem that hard to understand.
Are you kidding me? Do you know how much I make on overtime after a storm like this? Why should I share the opportunity to make so much extra with a bunch of Hee Haws?
So screw the victims as long as you make your overtime. I'm sure even with their help you would still get plenty of overtime. As usual, the people that support the unions are NOT the compassionate ones but the greedy. Typical progressive thinking....as long as it doesn't affect me, I'm compassionate.
Both this reply and what you are replying to are concocted. Why? Whats the point of making false statements, pretending to be someone you're not just to come back and shoot it down? Is the manipulation of this forum going to change anything, is it all you have in your life? How little you must think about the real problems we face for you to spend a year doing this over and over. Low life.
None of this is concocted. Crews that wanted to help were told they would have to sign forms and become union workers to help. In so doing, they would sign the forms giving money to the unions out of their pay. These crews refused to do that so some went home and some went to other states to help. My original post was to bring this to the attention of the public who have been waiting far too long for their power to be turned on. The responses I got show how a few people don't care about helping their neighbors as long as the union gets their money and from the looks of it, the union wants a lot of their paycheck.
People all over this country have been trying to help in any way they can because that's what we do when catastrophe strikes. However, the people that have been waiting for help should understand what has been going on behind the scenes. Read thru some of the responses above and tell me how many of them really care about how the unions have delayed their power from coming back on.
http://theunionlabelblog.com/2012/11/12/ny-union-prevented-florida-utility-workers-from-sandy-recovery/
To relate this to things we need to fix and the reason for this website, it's just another example of a lobby group's greed affecting the lives of American citizens. The greed of other lobby groups are what started the economic collapse and 4 years later, absolutely nothing has been done to fix that. Yet people on this site, side with a similar lobby group that is affecting daily survival in devastated communities. These are the same people that claim to be compassionate yet only in words, not actions.