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Forum Post: US/Israeli Crimes Against Palestine - Noam Chomsky

Posted 1 year ago on Nov. 20, 2012, 11:55 a.m. EST by struggleforfreedom80 (6584)
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17 Comments

17 Comments


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[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

In our recent elections, it would be very hard to come up with a more significant reason for the republican losses than the fact that they told the truth about themselves.
Why can’t we also learn the truth from what the PLO says about the “Palestinian people” ?
: On March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with
Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein.


”The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese.
Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of “Palestine”, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”


A provocative story? It’s more than that. It is the truth.
Truth does not change. Truth is truth.
If something was true 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, it is still true today.
And the truth is that only 30 years ago, there was very little confusion on this issue of Palestine.
You might remember the late Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir making the bold political statement:
“There is no such thing as a Palestinian people.” The statement has been a source of ridicule and derision by Arab propagandists ever since. They love to talk about Golda Meir’s “racism.” They love to suggest she was in historical denial. They love to say her statement is patently false – an intentional lie, a strategic deception – but is source from a PLO leader!

What they don’t like to talk about, however, are the very similar statements made by Yasser Arafat and his inner circle of political leadership years after Meir had told the truth –
that there is no distinct Palestinian cultural or national identity.


Pretty clear, isn’t it? It’s even more specific than Golda Meir’s statement. And it is hardly the only such statement of its kind. Arafat himself made a very definitive and unequivocal statement along these lines as late as 1993.
It demonstrates conclusively that the Palestinian nationhood argument is the real strategic deception – one geared to set up the destruction of Israel.


On the same day Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, Arafat stated:
“Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel.”


No matter how many people delude themselves that the aspirations for Palestinian statehood are genuine and the key to peace in the Middle East, they are still deceiving themselves. In the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as Palestine was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland.
It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.
Why now has it become such a critical priority?
The answer is because of a massive deception campaign and relentless terrorism over 40 years.
Golda Meir was telling the truth. Her statement is validated by the truth of history and by the candid, but not widely circulated, pronouncements of Arafat and his lieutenants.
Israel and the West must not surrender to terrorism by granting the killers just what they want – a public relations triumph and a strategic victory. It’s not too late to say no to terrorism. It’s not too late to say no to another Arab terror state to launch attacks at the only Jewish state. It’s not too late to tell the truth about Palestine.


▬►Why didn’t the PLO accept any of the MANY two state solutions proposed by Israel & America in the last few decades?
▬► If the Arab nations were interested in peace or simply aiding their brethren , they would support the West Bank as part of Jordan & Gaza as part of Egypt ( as it was occupied by Egypt 1948-1967 ).
▬►And they would be sending food to Gaza in stead of guns & rockets.
▬►If the Gazan militants were really fighting for the Gazan people, they would not launch their rockets from civilian neighborhoods. by Joseph Farah

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 1 year ago

How do these claims - whether they're true or false - change the fact that Israel is a terrorist state, responsible for serious human rights violations and conducting an illegal occupation.

[-] 1 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

facts are facts
Israel does not blow up buses full of children
Israel has attempted moves to peace since its founding
the PLO rejected them all


Heres a bit of homework for you:
Since then in 1948 ,
where is the greatest threat to Arabs & Moslems?
how many Arabs/Moslems have been killed by Israel?
how many Arabs/Moslems have been killed by Arabs/Moslems?

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 1 year ago

Not surprisingly you totally ignored the question I asked.

Once again: How do these claims - whether they're true or false - change the fact that Israel is a terrorist state, responsible for serious human rights violations and conducting an illegal occupation.

Israel does not blow up buses full of children, they blow up palestinian homes full of children.

[-] 0 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

Israel is NOT a terrorist state
Israel is NOT occupying Gaza
Israel is NOT occupying a country called Palestine


Israel killed 35,000 Arabs/Moslems since 1948
Arabs/Moslems killed 11,000,000 Arabs/Moslems since 1948


so what do we do to resolve the MAJOR threat to Arabs/Moslems?


We all know busses were TARGETTED by the PLO
Any civilian homes in Gaza TARGETTED by Israel ? And your proof ?


I like numbers - don't you?
How many Jews are in Arab state legislatures ( around 20 countries )
How many Arabs are in Jewish legislatures ( exactly one country )

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 1 year ago

Israel IS a terrorist state and Israel IS occupying Palestine

Last time I checked about 10 times more palestinians have been killed than Israelis.

Israel is conducting an illegal occupation of Palestine which is condemmed by the entire world except US/Israel, Israel has an obligation to stop the atrocities and the occupation.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28244) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Both sides have an obligation to seek peace.

[-] 3 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 1 year ago

When a state is conducting an illegal occupation, the victims have the right to defend themselves against the aggressor and occupier. This is called self defense. Self defense, including the kind I just mentioned is fully in accordance with international law, and is also pure logic and reason.

What you just said makes just as much as sense as if someone said that both the individual who is being attacked and beaten, and the individual attacking have an obligation to seek peace.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28244) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The issue is not one sided - and your attempt to make it so is lame to say the least. What prompted any sort of occupation at any point in time. Response to terrorist attacks. Are you gonna try to tell me that terrorist attacks are OK? As long as you are not Israel? And if you are Israel that you just have to accept being attacked? Is this the point that you are trying so hard to convey?

[-] 3 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 1 year ago

The main responsibility is on the state taht's conducting the illegal occupation.

Do you concider norwegians fighting back with arms against NG terrorists?

Again: At this moment, and for many many years Israel is conducting an illegal occupation - it's an illegal occupation, no matter what started it.

The Occupation is illegal. If Israel is responding by doing things that are illegal, then it's logically still illegal..

When a state is conducting an illegal occupation, the victims have the right to defend themselves against the aggressor and occupier. This is called self defense. Self defense, including the kind I just mentioned is fully in accordance with international law, and is also pure logic and reason.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28244) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Again - did the Norwegians - start a conflict by making terrorist attacks on Germany - or did they allow terrorist attacks to be made from Norway?

Or were the Norwegians defending against a country - GERMANY - bent on world domination and following a program of genocide?


Consider:

So what do you think Norway would do if Sweden started launching a series of terrorist attacks on Norway - continuing for years and years and years and then started shooting missiles as well?


I make my reply here as the system won't let me respond to your comments

[-] 3 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 1 year ago

You're not paying attention. If it's an illegal occupation, whatever caused it doesn't make it legal

NG was conducting an illegal occupation of Norway. Did Norwegians have the right to defend themselves from the state that occupied illegally? And do you concider the Norwegians fighting back against the state that occupied illegally terrorists?

So what are you saying? That if the state which is occupying illegaly is bent on world domination and following a program of genocide, then self defense is ok, but if if the state which is occupying illegaly is not bent on world domination and following a program of genocide, then the ones occupied and fighting back are suddenly terrorists and don't have the right to defend themselves? You're making no sense.

[-] 0 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

When was there a nation "Palestine"
Who was the president/ prime minister / king ?


There are 22 times as many Arab countries as Jewish countries
this proves what ?


some of these countries stone people to death for adultery
some of these countries won't let women go to school
some of these countries are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Arabs/Moslems
some of these counties slaughter their own

[-] 4 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 1 year ago

Whether or not Palestine is an official Country or not, or whether or not some/many of the laws in Palestine or other areas are immoral, does not change the fact that Israel is conducting an illegal occupation, and has an obligation to pull out of the occupied territories.

[-] 0 points by mideast (506) 1 year ago

How many square miles of Gaza is Israel occupying?
Most Arab countries supported the two state solutions in past decades that Arafat refused

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Hillary is going to swoop in and save the day, and buy us a little more time with the people of the middle east, as we continue to bomb them.

The group with their own personal kill list, coming in to broker peace. Unreal. What a charade.

[-] 0 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

lol, good call. ^