Forum Post: US Plans Nuclear Missiles 300 mi. off China: S. Korea + Taiwan
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 17, 2011, 9:17 a.m. EST by bklynsboy
(834)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
If there's no crisis, the US manufactures one. Anything to spend money on the Military-Industrial complex and take away from the 99%.
Since 2007, residents of Jeju Island, also officially designated the Island of World Peace, have been risking their lives and their freedom to prevent the construction of a naval base. This military base, if completed, will be home to both US and South Korean naval vessels and a sea-based Aegis ballistic missile defense system. At last count, more than 125 international organizations were listed as supporters of the anti-base effort.
The planned Jeju naval base facility would have a capacity for two submarines, 20 large destroyers and up to two aircraft carriers. Its purpose, as stated by both South Korean and US military officials, is to project force toward China. Many experts believe that the location of the base will provide a forward-operating installation in the event of a military conflict between the US and China. The Jeju base could become a flashpoint to trigger a large-scale military conflict between superpowers.
Up to three Aegis Destroyers will be present on the base site. That number could rise to six or even higher with occasional visits of US Aegis ships that should be expected. The base also is expected to serve as a temporary port for US submarines and carriers such as the USS George Washington, which has been involved in war-gaming exercises with the Republic of Korea Navy.
China is and will continue to be increasingly concerned about the Jeju Island naval base. The base will create far more problems than it will solve. Contrary to some misconceptions in the press, South Korea and China have positive relations. In fact, China is South Korea's No. 1 trading partner.
What would the US do if China had nuclear missiles at a Caribbean base? This is a reverse Cuban missile Crisis, with the US provoking.
Patriot missiles (Raytheon) to S. Korea and Taiwan. We make huge profits from war.
http://www.defencetalk.com/raytheon-patriot-missile-defense-systems-for-taiwan-39005/
N korea,Iran,china, all those countries are future war project to make money for the military industrial complex
Exactly! Win or lose the US wants endless war for profits. From repubs and democrats.
I second this comment!
The military - industrial complex (Halliburton, KBR) (FEMA) (various security companies) = DISASTER CAPITALISM
Not to worry.
Anywhere that you have a US naval presence, you have nuclear missiles.
Anywhere there is an Aircraft Carrier or a Nuclear Submarine, you have nuclear missiles present.
It has been that way a long time.
My point is having this omnipotent military is draining the US of money to survive. There are cuts everywhere: health, education, seniors, veterans, infrastructure, home aid, job creation, but the money keeps pouring in to the pentagon. They are structured to fighting the Cod War and Russia, which haven't existed for 20 years. We spend as much as the rest of the world combined on military, but don't even have one bullet train or ice breaker. US is crumbling.
1st china is not a super power 2nd no one is putting nukes there 3rd we must counter the chinese 4th you obviously have limited knowledge of the world.
China has surpassed us, or is close in every aspect except military.
no my friend they will never pass us they don't have the ingenuity to pass us they are all clone drones.
That remark shows clearly that you are an idiot.
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Fact: they surpass us in GNP Fact: they surpass us in energy consumed Fact: They have higher school test scores Fact: They graduate more engineers
school test scores do not determine intelligence as shown by the failed no child left behind program. it just encourages narrow thought and itemized learning.
NCLB was s scheme for Bush's brother to sell educational programs. What should schools use to test intelligence?
World war 3 is on horizon
Only if provoked by America. The MIC wants endless war, win or lose to keep the taxpayer money pouring in. China doesn't want war; it hold trillions of US debt and is making too much money. Iran is posturing; nuclear war is suicide to them with the US backing Israel's 300 nuclear bombs.
The money isn't real. Just digits in a computer, or printed on paper. This country has been printing money based on debt that can never be repaid, thi is why the deficit clock grows every day.
USA has been bankrupt since 1933, and operating under HJR 192 ("chapter 11 protection/reorganization equivalent) since
It was never meant to last this long.
The money game just keeps people working for material possessions, etc.
They want new cars all the time, etc so they are assigned a value. This value translates to a type of work value and you work. You want education, house, etc you have to make more money and work more and more. You offer Labor in exchange for money to pay a debt that is created by a bank based on a debt owed to the federal reseeve bank.
It is all debrt on debt, no gold or silver/anything tangible backing curreny.
You, me our property, value of labor, money we leave in bank, invest, purchase keeps the wheel trurning - you me, we & our property are the collateral to the federal reserve bank on the bonds they borrow against us.
Good insight. The world seems to have embraced this system of labor for goods. It can only be changed by everyone going to barter or subsistence existence.
And then and only then we can have fair trade.
The nature of man seems to be having an advantage. Regulation and enforcement are needed, but not militarily.
At least, there has been some progress on slowing down the push for war in Syria:
As the result of a significant Russian war-avoidance intervention, combined with splits in the Arab League and strong U.S. Pentagon resistance to another Libya-style military intervention, there are some signs that the London-led forces promoting violent regime change in Damascus are being pushed back, and are in some disarray.
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/21045
If US pushes too hard, there will be Russian and China intervention. They are to US now as US and allies were to WW2 Germany. I would really not like for China / Russia to drop a couple of a=bombs here and restructure our society as we did to Germany for same acts. In eyes of outside world view that is what US looks like. Thank our corrupt leaders and politicians. The system is obviously hijacked.
Our foreign policy is totally failing.
We have Japan/China and North Korea/South Korea getting along better than ever. If US is pushed further out of the group, they will form alliance.
If this trade alliance is successful, you will see severe demise in our economy.. further aggravated by current downward trend, QE3 and devaluation.
Martial law must be implemented to keep order, recall everything is order out of chaos. Severe economic depression will occur as the war is ramping up
Public will not go for this , chaos and civil war/faction-ism will ensue.
Other countries may seize opportunity under humanitarian effort to take over.
This will be done wit UN and remaining allies, possibly UK will stay out of further conflict.
At same time as all of this, Israel/Iran war & Syrain conflict, we will be spread too thin.
Bombs get dropped here like we did to Japan. This will shock everyone and break will.
Counter strike intercontinental ballistic response, to strategic targets in China, Russia, Iran, etx. This will result in yet another counter offensive from other nations.
This will go on for a bit, nuclear winter, famine, poverty, and whatever is left and whoever is in charge will try to rebuild world unity and peace as this will be only solution.
World unity, one goal toward "human" evolution, one government, one economy, one new religion, one system.
I cannot say all details will happen, but this is trend we are on some details may not happen, slight change of order but the end result of the game is checkmate. No other end possible
The end
Actually, the US could be a part of, or even a leader of the development that's occurring in Asia. If we impeached Obama, and undertook development projects like those of FDR, but on an international scale.
For example, a train route has long been discussed that would connect Siberia to Alaska through a tunnel or bridge across the Bering Strait. The US could be involved in building a system like this that would connect all of Europe and Asia with the Americas through a vast train route.
There are factions in the US pushing for this approach now. It could be done, whether or not it will depends on us.
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japan and china hate each other you are a fool.
http://www.truth-out.org/protest-heightens-against-military-base-south-koreas-island-world-peace/1323972026
have not found many links to support this
By Matthew Hoey
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/ML16Dg01.html
the image I posted here is now being suppressed from view here
here is a link http://www.truth-out.org/sites/default/files/20-full.jpg
Now that N Korea has a power struggle, the US will run and save the world by blowing it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryongchon_disaster
With 10 years of Iraq and Afghan wars, we let N. Korea become an unstable nuclear state. Well done.
I hope that doesn't justify nuclear weapons in South Korea
Absolutely not. N Korea knows it' suicide to use its bombs. Probably uses the technology to make money globally.
the technology is 67 years old and no great secret
Agreed, but they sell weapons and expertise.
fission tech is good for producing unusable bombs, electricity and so medical procedures
Unfortunately N Korean weapon sales destabilize regions buying them.
South Korea, Japan and China are all more successful economies
Patriot missiles (Raytheon) to S. Korea and Taiwan. We make huge profits from war.
http://www.defencetalk.com/raytheon-patriot-missile-defense-systems-for-taiwan-39005/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/finnish-government-gives-transit-permit-to-cargo-of-patriot-missiles-to-skorea/2012/01/04/gIQAhiKDaP_story.html
raytheon needs a threat so countries will buy their missiles
"New" pentagon budget leaves it mostly unchanged.
http://www.truth-out.org/president-obama-wants-build-new-house-pentagon/1325860817
Win or lose, the MIC doesn't care.
sales is sales
endless war for profit.
and power
Just one bomb on Pyongyang is all they need. Just one.
eh
doesn't NATO drop 100s a year
You have no evidence there will be nuclear weapons at the site. Positioning and location of nuclear weapons is highly classified. You can't know.
I agree
the title is misleading
Fact: Nukes are carried on US war ships. Fact: US warships will dock at this base. That's the point: force projection.
Fact: Some US warships carry nukes. Fact: Some US warships will dock at the base. You can't assert warships docking at the base will carry nukes.
That's what the islanders are unhappy about, possible provocation between superpowers that would destroy their world.
I agree. There is no way some guy on the OWS forum knows for a Fact where the US is putting warheads.
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Warmongering much today?
Heres a concept, the USN doesnt base Trident submarines in foreign countries.
Because if the US based Trident Subs in Korea, the Chinese could track them in and out of the base.
Why would the USN volunteer this information to the world, let alone the Chinese?
Nimitz class carriers are 100,000 tons, but the port is going to be good to 80,000 tons
http://www.asiarooms.com/en/travel-guide/south-korea/jeju/how-to-get-in/transportation-in-jeju/jeju-port.html
The point is, nukes based in China's backyard. China isn't an enemy. It's a trading partner. They have trillions of US debt. They don't want a war. They're making money off the US.
Nobody "wants" war, but when people get broke, they start fighting.
The military industrial complex wants endless war, win or lose for profit.
http://warisaracket.org/
Smeds! Awesome! Connects all the dots! War is a racket!
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does that mean you disagree?
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Nobody's putting nuke anywhere. If you could find this out, I promise you, the Chinese have known about it for months.
The carriers and missile subs have that capability.
Just because they can, doesn't mean they are. If word was out that we were loading nukes onto subs and heading over there WW3 would begin. I would be the same situation as when N. Korea stands at the border. S. Korea freaks out. That's just tanks and infantry. If we sat in striking distance, there would be huge reprocussions.
What do you think our missile subs carry, Roman Candles??????????
They carry missiles. They have the capacity to carry nukes. They also have the amazing capacity to carry nothing at all.
Brilliant! The world's most lethal force shooting blanks, costing us hundreds of billions taxpayer money. Your country is grateful you command nothing in the military.
Nobody's shooting anything. Blanks or otherwise. We have so much money tied up in China(all those fancy "American icon" cars?? Parts are from China). One call from them to call in the money we owe them, or else they cut us off, things would get bad quick.
And trust me, if I ran shit, there wouldn't be half the soldiers out there as there are now.
Exactly the points China and the US will avoid war. Plus they have trillions in US debt we borrowed from them.
our nuclear armed subs never reveal their locations and they will never.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-3hZsXrxaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
The US is the primary force on the planet for war and destruction. Our largest export is weapons.
Please see http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/ft900.pdf for a factual description of US Exports in services and goods.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/10/news/international/america_exports_weapons.fortune/index.htm Weapons: America's Hottest export
Your reference says, "The Department of Defense last year told Congress of plans to sell up to $103 billion in weapons to overseas buyers," but never defines the time-frame over which these sales will occur.
The article at http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/06/us-pentagon-weapons-idUSTRE7B500R20111206 does provide an annual figure. It says our weapons exports were $34.8 billion in FY2011 (Oct 2010 - Oct 2011).
Per the export data at http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/ft900.pdf , our exports for the first 10 months of 2011 alone totaled $1747 billion for the partial year.
2011 weapons exports represent less than 2% of US exports in 2011.
Is there any other fact-checking I can do for you ?
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/storysupplement/up_in_arms/?iid=EL
That's the middle east alone. We spend almost as much as the world combined on military and weapons
Yes, we do spend more than anyone by far, I never disputed that. I was disputing your claim that weapons are our largest export. They aren't.
We often sell weapons to nations simply so we control that nation's ability to wage war. A modern military can't run for more than a week without resupply, and we control whether they get the spare parts they need. Iran's F-14 fleet, for example, was useless within 6 months after they booted us out.
When we sell weapons, we also have the benefit of knowing exactly what capability the buying nation has, and this too gives us power over their excercise of military power.
If we don't sell weapons, the people who want them will simply buy them from China, Russia, or France, and we will lose any knowledge or control over them.
I don't like the fact that we sell so many weapons, but it may be the least evil of several evil options.
Finally, be careful when viewing these sales by dollar amount. Go look up the cost of an F-15, F-16, M-1 Tank, and Patriot missile system. The dollar figures people quote are really big, but they don't translate into as many weapons as people might think.
"we" is funny when applied to Nations
so 300 million people know who "we" sell weapons to ?
By "we" I meant the US Government/military.
You can know who we sell to as well; our arms sales are very public.
the US government should belong to the US people
It does. The US People elected every single one of our representatives, and they have to approve all arms sales. Proposed and pending arms sales are made public well before they occur, typically several years before.
arms sales are planned in advance
Yes they are, but there is a lot of time between when they are first proposed to when they are approved and go through. The recent sale of anti-missile systems to UAE, for example, was first proposed under Pres Bush but is just now through approval. There's plenty of time of the public to weigh in if they want. We generally don't.
Good points. The entire apparatus of fear mongering by both parties ensure unencumbered budgets for war at the expense of the 99% and crumbling America.
I would contest the 'unencumbered.' First, see the historical trend os a percentage of GDP at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_defense_spending_by_GDP_percentage_1910_to_2007.png . Second, remember that the budget Super-Committee, by failing, has now put $600 billion in DoD cuts on the table (see http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/21/news/economy/super_committee_failure/index.htm ).
"Unencumbered" was an exaggeration. Try Bloated, disproportionate, excessive, inflated.
Bloated by your definition. We have a Democracy so that we can arrive at some compromise between the different views each of us have on such matters. All arms sales are made public well before they occur, typically several years before, and all of them are subject to Congressional approval. We don't let our arms manufacturers sell whatever they want to whoever they want. If you or I don't like one, we can lobby our representatives and/or replace them with folks who support our policies on the matter.
Exactly! My writing a letter or phone call to my congressman has zero impact compared to the many millions lobbyists shower on congress to curry yes votes for military contracts. The MIC wants endless war, win or lose, to keep your tax dollars pouring in.
We need 1000+ bases around the world? We need more subs, carriers, jets, new nukes and missiles? THe cold war is dead and we're in a race with ourselves. America is 2nd world. We're crumbling. Everything is cut to keep feeding endless wars and the military. We have lower education and higher death rates than other countries. We have no icebreakers in our fleet and must lease one from Sweden. We have to hitch rides on Russian space rockets. We shut street lights in cities to save money. We have no bullet trains. Our roads, bridges, tunnels, ports are crumbling. We're pathetic. But there's always money for more jets, bombs and wars.
I'm a huge fan of getting the money out of politics. See my post at http://www.themultitude.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&p=4355#p4355 .
No matter how much money is flowing through Congress, we can still boot them out and replace them with people who will implement our desires. We the People have just been sleeping our way through Democracy, we need to wake up.
Personally, I support what we do with our military, but I also agree that we need to spend a little more time on some other deficits in our infrastructure, etc. I'm in the 3-5% group in terms of income, and I am willing to pay more taxes to fix what ails us.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't think we have a future of "endless war." We defeated the Soviet Union and brought down the Iron Curtain. We have as much as defeated China by getting her so connected internationally that she is unlikely to get to military on us (we still remind her to behave just in case she gets expansive, but she'll soon be so intertwined with her neighbors, she wont want or need to be expansionist). We're currently trying to get the middle east connected into the world, and have been wildly successful except for Iran (which is about to fall as well... see http://news.yahoo.com/iran-threatens-action-u-carrier-returns-irna-082124042.html ). All that remains is Africa, and they're not a big military threat. The end of Nation-On-Nation war that plagued the world for literally hundreds upon hundreds of years of war is upon us.
Mankind is finally near fully connected and people are starting to see themselves as citizens of the world rather than local tribes. The economies of the world are becoming deeply linked, and any nation that steps out of line with world opinion risk exclusion to the great detriment of their rulers. The plan has come to near full fruition.
The plan I describe is called "Globalization." It works, and it's near complete.
You may call yourself an optimist. I wonder if you're awake or in dreamland. Billions of Chinese will never be integrated. The billions in pentagon cuts are farts in a windstorm because even with the doomsday trillion of extra cuts, over 10 years, the military will be at 20076 levels. Still bloated and disproportionate. Furthermore, homeland security, surveilance, war costs, hundreds of billions of veterans' costs, foreign aid are huge, due to wars, and not counted. Your construct is built on a house of cards.
What's the factual basis of your statement, "Billions of Chinese will never be integrated" ?
".. the military will we at 2007 levels. Still bloated and disproportionate." In your opinion, not in mine. I see America continuing to provide much of the security around the world for the foreseeable future.
Homeland security costs will fall as we integrate the Middle East and the conditions the bred Extremist Islam are removed.
Your construct is built on an assumption there is no plan and that our efforts to bring peace through integration will fail.
Only history will tell whether your or I are correct in our outlooks.
I'm willing to admit I may be wrong. Are you ?
Globalization exists to maximize corporate profits. There will be a backlash as people lose markets and jobs with NAFTA approvals by congress. Their sole purpose is corporate profits. People are pushing back with OWS. Unfettered military actions and spending are also on the radar. Things are seriously changing for the benefit of the masses. This is happening globally.
Jobs are only lost when there is a large disparity between the standard of living between two countries. As these emerging economies mature, their people demand more pay, shorter hours, more vacations, better working conditions etc. You may be to old to know this, but we were all scared the Japanese would run the world at one point too, and we watched as Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, etc have matured and become less and less a "threat" to American jobs. Look at our trade balances by nation.
At present, the west is struggling greatly because we're trying to integrate a very large labor pool in China. Once they're integrated, wages and balance will be restored. There are no big labor markets left that will be as difficult to integrate as China has been (and will be for a while).
Our defense budgets aren't "unfettered." They are no longer the costliest item in our budget, and they are set to decline rapidly (remember, when the super-committee didn't decide, they put $500 billion in defense on the table).
Globalization is probably driven by profits, but it also yields the "global citizen" and enmeshes countries in relationships that make war very costly. Global citizens combined with economically interdependent countries pretty much eliminates the factors that drove the Nation-On-Nation warfare that dominated human history before 1945.
I'm pretty confident the world will soon wake up and start working international agreements to bring the big multi-nationals back under regulatory control (i.e. global pollution standards, work safety, health care, etc).
I see globalization ending in positives, but it's a hell of a struggle along the way, particularly for those who started strong and are shouldering the negative impacts of trade agreements, etc. In the end, however, I think it represents the natural evolution of civilization away from nation-states to a global mind-set.
You may have noted that I'm an eternal optimist. I thing there are significant things to change and address, but overall, I have faith in mankind's ability to continue progress toward a better, more responsible, and fair civilization.
How else can we stop them from manufacturing IPads using unpaid children. America stands for justice....more nukes off China coast...until they stop slaving children. Do you hate children?
And help America's sick, poor starving children losing their homes from foreclosures.