Forum Post: unrestrained abandonment thinking
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 16, 2011, 10:33 p.m. EST by fishb8
(62)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
this so called revolution is about as sensible and focused as a herd of cats . . .
Literally every post here is an individual rant about a very individual point of view . . . 100's of different brain farts from very gaseous people...... scattered . . . directionless . . . .a blob of people coming together for a pity party that apparently never ends nor will ever run out of pity. Strange, unproductive, uncreative . . . hobby . . . for the likewise!
A useless rant on useless ranters. Make sure that hypocritical finger wags back in your own direction, will ya.
Agree, except that I support his freedom to say what he or she wants even if I find it hypocritical, as this poster does not seem to want to extend the same freedom to others that he or she exercises.
I fully support his/her (who knows) freedom to express an opinion, while equally, fully disapproving of the blatant hypocritical manner in which it was expressed. Who says I can't be fair and unbalanced? Oh wait, that's Fox News I was thinking of.
edit: fishb8 = fishbait ;; what a clever boy/girl (minnow?)
It keeps my mind sharp from all of the arguing.
Yes, we have had reactionaries saying the exact same thing for every other protest or movement in the history of America; anything new or original to say? Don't you think that we have heard this multiple times before?
Ah great so what you are saying is we have finally created a truly democratic forum where all voices can be heard equally...yes democracy is not supposed to be clean. It is supposed to look messy when everyone actually gets to speak and try to get others to engage in their "individual point of view". Or perhaps we should only stick to debating issues that were constructed solely to divide the population to make it easier for the two party system to split the heard and focus on getting votes, lets just keep trying to convince each other that abortion is good or abortion is bad. Hot button issues like that tired old abortion debate (which was not even really debated until Reagan realized he could use it to get the evangelical vote) and issues used to make people think they actually have an opinion does not work here. Once upon a time there was true greek democray two thousand years ago, where people stood in public squares debating the issues of the day, eventually the important issues start to rise to the top and the political candidates realize those are the issues the people are concerned with and then next thing you know you have presidential candidates debating about the growing gap between the rich and poor and the need to control the influence of corporations in our democracy. This is what democracy looks like. Sorry if it is too messy for you, perhaps a nice clean dictatorship would be nice...one person telling all the people what is best for them. would that make you feel more comfortable. or why don't you actually participate in this democracy and share your opinions on issues that matter to you as an individual, we will actually listen to you and engage in real friendly debate if you are civil and not just name calling. Iknow you must be passionate about your views as you are here reading and posting. why not take part in your democracy, if you don't others will be deciding things for you.
mic check: Everyone talking at once is not discussion. Everyone demanding their own way is not a functional, productive system You can not eat or wear ideology no matter how loud you complain.
And you seem like one of the bozo's who come here with the intention of making it seem like such. I dubb the just another lame troll - byte me.
logic is your enemy . . , assault would be your method, and your final solution leaves only you standing . . .alone.
Hallelujah for free speech!
And those herds of cats (ows), is the hope of the world.
Not until they can learn to focus on a couple of goals at a time. I wish Occupy had made an attempt to recruit people to run for congress, they had a national network and could have run people in primaries, been taken seriously, and made a difference. As it is there will be demonstrations about a variety of things over the next few months, but I really think it's missed it's chance.
The world freedom movement started with Gandhi- then MLK, eastern Europe, Serbia, Arab spring and now ows- each movement learned from the one before it- ows understands more that you could possibly, imagine. they are unstoppable !
Gandhi and King had a political movement going at the same time as the popular resistance was taking place. You're seeing what you want to see in OWS. I see it as evolving into nothing more then a sort of lapel ribbon for social justice, makes a nice statement but doesn't accomplish much. Too bad, it had potential, even now it could turn things around if it wanted to.
It is turning things around, even now. The indications are subtle, but they include images of Boner sweating on national TV, advocating job creation - a distinct change in tone from the months of budget debate when the intent was to tank jobs numbers and hope for political gain.
I Know the kind of change you are looking for - you want repelican policy of deregulation to prevail.
Ain't gonna happen.
Members of both parties are only interested in reelection and spending. The difference is in what they want to spend on. What I want are new people to run in primaries and push an agenda of overhauling the tax code and to reform the way elections are funded. I want to see Occupy develop a clear platform and work to get politicians to support it.
OWS is letting things drift, politicians are latching on to a few causes that may or may not be traced back to Occupy. It's backwards, the politicians are using occupy instead of the other way around. Part of the problem is the whole cause du jour appearance of the movement.
For OWS to engage in politics would immediately alienate 50% of the population. To take a longer view a 2020 view, where we actually change the dialog in america wher ewe actually raise awareness of issues before we immediately creat divisive political candidates is the goal of movements who want real change on a core social norm level. We mus tchange the norms by getting 99% of society to wake up and make greedy bankers into social pariahs, that is when real change happens when society starts to band together against corporate influence over our democracy is when change will occur. No one political candidate is going to change the government. Only the people can create a new generation that doesn't hold money and greed as ideals to strive for. Only parents can raise a new generation of children with real democratic ideals. This will take a movement that can transcend politics. We must take the long view. Civil rights movement started long before MLK first his predecessors had to get it in their children's heads that racism was fundamentally wrong. That took a generation or two. WE are sowing hte seeds, watch when 2020 rolls around you will start to see the effects on a local level when mayors and town council are being elected and as those people move up the political ladder they will carry their ideals with them. patience is very difficult in a political system that only responds to crisis situations. This is bigger than two party politics, these are human lives that are affected at the core, poverty does not see what candidate you voted for.
So it comes down to just letting things drift along and hope you can capture the hearts and minds of all the people before you actually tell them what the movement's specific goals are? If the economy picks up you'll find support evaporating and you'll have accomplished nothing.
http://www.the99declaration.org/ Check this out. Hold tight it is just beginning.
I've seen it and read it. It offers a list of what may or may not be on a list of possible grievances, a wish list. It puts off making any decision until July. By then it will be too late to have much influence in local elections for congress.
Worse still, your election turnout could turn out to be politicly microscopic. What happens if you don't get participation from all congressional districts, or if voting in those districts numbers in the dozens? Your wish list will be ignored or some of your ideas will be co-opted by politicians already running, to help themselves not you. The system will use you and control you instead of the other way around.
The whole thing looks like people playing a game of democracy and pretending there isn't already a government here that they have to deal with. The only good I see is that it may wake occupy up to the fact that they are very small in number and need to use whatever goals they someday agree upon to build a strong political base and start voting good people into the system we already have.
Apollo 13, the movie, has a great scene when they are accessing the damage to the spacecraft. After the people at NASA realize just how bad the situation is, they finally ask, "What is working?" What we have right now is the will which is primary. Building on a healthy foundation, as you stated, is the next step.
By the time they get organized and get a goal things will have passed them by. Successful movements start with a reason for being, they don't take 9 months to find themselves.
Conception, whether of an idea, or an individual human being, is the beginning of the process. Gestation is the period of organizational development required for viable life functions to develop in an appropriate manner. Historical circumstance that needs addressing will not magically disappear, but will continue until the appropriate form has manifested itself. Our time is our own to develop as we will.
If you are content with the make up and size of the movement as it is then fine. It's yours, keep to whatever timetable you desire. If you seek to gather supporters it would be nice to let them know the specifics of what your goals are. I'm saying that there is a good chance that by the time you put together a platform, there won't be many people that care.
The goal is simply justice in all its manifold beauty.
Not going to work, it's the details that make something work, not the vague good intentions.
Justice is not vague at all, it is clear as a bell like the liberty bell in Philadelphia, the one with a crack in it that needs some minor repair like our Nation. And it will too work! ( You) Betcha $10,000 dollars worth! :) Lord have mercy, what are the alternatives?/burning in a blue hell? I prefer the sun in a green grassy field, thank you.
Epic fail!
Winning is matter of steps. Life is a learning process. "There is no failure here sweetheart, just when you quit" (Miracle drug U2).
I think you are so right on point here with the idea of having someone run for congress . It would have put a real face to OWS. Right now there seems to be so little clarity on the real issues. It's becoming a free for all , for every gripe and grievance. Every unhappiness in the world is " occupied". I really had high hopes, that maybe, just maybe the American people would ALL stand behind this movement on the major issues. Now most just shrug and change the topic.
They could still do something, but they are rapidly becoming the stereotype, hipsters throwing a little fit, expecting some sort of Harry Potter to wave a wand and make governments, banks, and corporations change.
They are going to have to do something other than " occupying" and demanding. Hey Id love to see all the wrongs in this country righted.. but those changes come from actually doing something other than " occupying" . The laws are not made on Wall Street, they are made in congress, thats where they should be. Not by hunger strikes and blocking streets and demanding space from Trinity church. Kind of the ole " bite the hand that feeds you" mentality. There is so much anger and so much finger pointing in this movement. The 99% that they claim to represent is just not interested in listening anymore. Most of us will attempt change at the voting booths in 2012 and hope we chose the right person to represent us this time.
I agree with you. I've had similar discussions with others. Some say they are taking a long view and that having a platform would alienate too many people. No point in talking to him about it, he simply believes he can someday convince everyone to just change things. I'll wish him luck and look to fix my little corner of the world on my own.
What more did you expect from the Obnoxious White Students movement?
I expected more from what I thought was an educated group of mostly young folks. They can all quote and link to sites of history, but when it comes down to it, I just don't hear practical solutions. I dont hear any talk of any self accountability or responsibility. Over and over I have made suggestions about jobs, housing and self reliance only to be shot down. I'm hardly a 1%er, that group is tiny and unreachable by most, but I am certainly not part of the unemployed, homeless and the angry . I do what I can to help my neighbor and community and for that I can sleep at night. Maybe they need to start doing the same instead of demanding. Small steps at a time.
I agree 100%. You should dump OWS and join us at the Tea Party.
I keep thinking to myself.. maybe.. just maybe.. Then I watch the live feeds of breaking into Trinity's lot, and the running and yelling in the streets and think.. this isn't the way to make any change. And of course I will get voted down on my posts because voices of reason aren't tolerated.
Read the forum posts for a while and you'll see just how mixed up this group really is.
Ive been reading them from day one.. had my name deleted on several occasions . So much for free speech with this group. Mixed up is an understatement. The key issues seem to have been tossed into the wind .
Same here. and as soon as you disagree or have another point of view, you are called a "troll". This group is nothing but a bunch of grade schoolers.
OWS has become the Obnoxious Whining Student movement.
Thats the part that just annoys me.. there is no room for any dialogue. I have made suggestions over the months on different topics.. such as finding work/creating a way to make a living. But that too is shot down.. there is always a reason why they can't. Always an excuse. I have suggested putting a face to OWS and getting key issues into DC.. thats not good either. It's a constant " us vs them" . Forget about asking about accountability on the donations to OWS. Thats an automatic shut down. The old " whats good for the goose is NOT good for the gander" on this forum.
The key issues are out there and most Americans are tired of much of the government policy concerning taxes and corps and all the outsourcing of jobs. It is real and very much a part of everyone's day to day, but breaking laws and stamping feet is not going to make a change. I'm old school maybe.. I was raised to be accountable for my actions, learn to be self reliant and help stand up for those who can't. But I'm not going to stand up for those who won't.
hair ball coming up . . .aaaccckkkk
Alex Jones
http://www.infowar.com/
15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America. Information Clearing House, Grafiken über Einkommens- und Vermögensverteilung in den USA
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25399.htm
http://www.pauljorion.com/blog/?p=11384
http://elboheme.blogspot.com/2010/05/die-wahren-ursachen-der-krise_12.html
Bilderberger
http://www.bilderberg.org/
Peak Oil and 9.11.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com
LaRouche Movement
http://www.larouchepac.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-3hZsXrxaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SQqjTxI3vc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
What more did you expect from the Obnoxious White Students movement?
Too true.