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Forum Post: Union History: Down the Memory Hole

Posted 8 months ago on Aug. 16, 2013, 10:29 a.m. EST by shooz (26731)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I suppose when one looks at how union history is being sullied, tarnished and out "(R)ight" lied about, it's not so hard to understand the antipathy I've faced on the subject around here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023467597

I wonder who wrote and OKed those text books?

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/09/07/313270/history-textbooks-labor-unions/

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/09/we-came-to-work/?_r=0

http://veracitystew.com/2013/05/17/stew-update-gop-assault-on-american-workers-continues-petition/

http://www.occupy.com/article/bart-strike-gets-called-worker-concerns-are-growing

Support workers.

Support unions.

79 Comments

79 Comments


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[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 8 months ago

It is a shame to see the legacy of the unions being tarnished. I did not begin to learn about the unions' contributions to our modern way of life until college. All the talk of solidarity and honor that you all strive for is a major tenant of unionism. One of my favorite movies honoring our rich heritage is "Matewan." If anyone has a minute, I suggest you watch it. Although, the language may be a little too extreme for some of you bleeding hearts, which in some respect I happen to be one, just not when it comes to political rhetoric . Political correctness is a passion killer and a motivation suppressor. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwEMIvDEFy4&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqwEMIvDEFy4

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 8 months ago

(Merle Travis)

Some people say a man is made outta mud A poor man's made outta muscle and blood Muscle and blood and skin and bones A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do you get Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain Fightin' and trouble are my middle name I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died One fist of iron, the other of steel If the right one don't a-get you Then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do you get Another day older and deeper in debt Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go I owe my soul to the company store

More lyrics: http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/t/tennessee_ernie_ford/

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

The real shame, is watching posters here continue to smear them.

They'll sometimes pay homage to the formative years, but absolutely no common support for them today.

BTW, good movie, although I haven't seen it years, I'll see if I can still find it on DVD.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 8 months ago

I've read this whole tread, shooz. I kinda understand the resentment some might have to the unions. The unions capitulated to big money when NAFTA was sighed. In order for them to keep their standard of living, they allowed the supply chains of the major manufacturing outlets to be shipped across the boarder. And like Wsmith said, unions have always been quick to turn a blind eye on exploitation when it was not directed at them. I just hope that the ideas of what unions stood for can transcend the betrayal that is felt when people review NAFTA. We need brand new unions where they are run by people who are not tainted by luxury.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

That's their issue. Unions are fighting for their very survival these days.

Unions are made up of their members and those members are human and capable of mistakes. what they don't have is the level of organization of those who are opposed to them.

To think that they are on the same level as the corporations they have challenged over the years, has always been the aim of the propaganda aimed against them.

Now that they are few?

The propaganda has become wholly accepted?

That is truly a sad, sad thing.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 7 months ago

The fact that "Unions are made up of their members and those members are human and capable of mistakes," does make the argument against them weak. For that simple fact, we are all fallible, it is no surprise that what passes for politics is sometimes deemed as the best we can do. Just FYI, the argument that it is labor's fault that corporate America sold out the nation is an argument that has never held traction with me. It is a blame the victim mantality to ever buy such propaganda.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 7 months ago

The fact that Union history is being re-written, is an incredibly in your face level of support for my argument about the strength, level and organization of propaganda that's being used against unions these days.

As another level of proof, take a look at the "not anti-union" opinions in the "dems betrayal" thread.

There isn't a word about this re-write, and there is almost no level of support for unions in the entire thing. Indeed it was limited to a few unions that offered support of a particular demonstration.

The propaganda against unions is so strong and has been continuous since before ANY of us here, was even born.

And it shows.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21783) 8 months ago

It was the latest disappointment for BART and workers, but a strike is now off the books -- at least until October 19, when the 60-day grace period would come to an end. If there is no deal at that point, workers are adamant they are ready to take their grievances to the next level.

One BART worker, a member of the union, told Occupy.com that he believes the governor is intervening in their ability as workers to have their voice heard. He, like other employees, expressed a sense that workers are being manipulated by the governor’s office and the BART management.

“We have fought hard for our rights, better pay and a secure future. We want to compromise, but BART doesn’t seem willing to do so at the moment and now they have the support of the governor over this,” said the worker, who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of his comments. - See more at: http://www.occupy.com/article/bart-strike-gets-called-worker-concerns-are-growing#sthash.WyVCEFUW.dpuf

I haven't heard a peep on this one. I have been following it in the news.

See, here is the thing that really pisses me off. First the little forum chanters were all about the union and ows should be separate. In order for me to support ows they will have to stay away from the union.

Then came the plethora of articles that had approached it honestly. With the message, we were very careful because of the perception

Then came the bullshit and, my ultimate favorite line from the forum dipshits, The unions should fight for everyone's rights

Even though, it has been repeated on the forum the number of ways that unions do benefit all.

Now, comes the same chorus line of bullshit,

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-democrats-betrayal-of-labor-unions/

So, here is the deal. I don't want to hear anymore bullshit. Right to work is right to work for less. I don't want to hear about how someone gives a damn about the middle class or the workers if all they are going to do is to attempt to destroy the unions.

Fuck 'em.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Yeah I saw that article on BART too, but figured they wouldn't comment.

They pretend to sort of support unions, until you mention "right to work" legislation, and suddenly they become very quite.......then they start a new thread on Monsanto, or drones.

Unions forgotten.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (21783) 8 months ago

Yep. But, I don't give a damn anymore and I'm not interested in hearing the added bullshit.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Not a single supportive comment from those that like to repeat over and over about how they are "not anti-union".

This makes them undeniable liars.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

The Reich has a big problem with Unions, as well as Truth, Justice, Equality, Democracy; but a big ass prejudice against Organized Labor or Organized People, as in unwashed masses, riffraff, the 99% ~ especially when we get together. When we get together we are Strong and we Get Our Way.

Strength in Numbers. That poses a threat to People who make big money from millions and millions of masses of vulnerable individuals paying taxes, buying products, fighting & shooting, keeping their mouths shut, their wallets open, and/or being good wage slaves: 1% People. When individual consumers or slaves turn into powerful groups it threatens profits.

So hating Unions in exponential proportion to their greed, the 1% or PTB have their henchmen & trolls Reich or GOP break up, divide, agitate and denigrate Unions, Collectives, Mobs and even Intellectual Congregations.

We see this in text books, news papers, MSM, Web Sites, on the Streets and even Here. It's a war on Organizing in ANY way. An evil greed war on any possible impedance of 1% profits.

That's why we have to Unite and Win.

Evil never rests.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Conspicuous in their absence, are all those liars who claimed they're "not anti-union".

Yes they are The lying shits.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

SPREAD THE WORD!!!!!!

Major False Flag rhetoric going on the board!!!!

(Cons feigning homey Occupy mutha fukas!)

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Yep.

Not one pro-union comment and NO comments on how certain "entities" are re writing union history.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

Nor do they have alternatives to anything they criticize!!!!

Religiously void of better ideas,

JUST BITCHING!!

Just mudslinging!!

Just finding fault!!

Go Unions! Go Dems!

END Citizens United & Republicans!!

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Whatever it takes.

I'm just sick and tired of all the union bashing around here.

They don't "promote" right to work, but they won't say a single word against it.

they haven't a clue..

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

The state has no right to make a say on anything in area of work. Right to work is a blatant violation of the 14th Amendment

14th Amendment:

" In Meyer v. Nebraska (1923),[77] the Court stated that the "liberty" protected by the Due Process Clause "[w]ithout doubt...denotes not merely freedom from bodily restraint but also the right of the individual to contract, to engage in any of the common occupations of life, to acquire useful knowledge, to marry, establish a home and bring up children, to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience, and generally to enjoy those privileges long recognized at common law as essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."

Right to work is a blatant violation of right to contract.

Unions are declining across the entire nation, not just right to work states. Its an overall symptom of excess, but its starting to reverse as the movements of Walmart workers have shown.

Personally, the more workers organize the better we are as a whole because its a participatory system.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Spoken like a true anti-union man.

Unions are declining exactly because of right to work and a concerted, on going effort to mis-educate.

The libe(R)tarian BS about "personal responsibility" is another driving factor.

Attacks on unions are all around you.

http://wepartypatriots.com/wp/2013/08/22/stl-beacon-missouris-right-to-work-bill-wouldnt-even-have-unanimous-republican-support/

I'm still waiting for your oration on the UAW.

I could have believed you, if you had spoken long and loud about events in Michigan and Wisconsin.

But you didn't.

You were all on about a co-option by unions.

Worried about the AFL-CIO and SEIU.

I do recall.

And now you want to quote some court case?

Where did you find that info?

Where's the link?

Right to contract??

The GOP/libe(R)tarians/conse(R)vatives, have been tearing them up all over the country.

Wanna talk about Detroit again?

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

"Some court case"? Really?

My position on unions has been the same as everything else. The power of the people is the force that cannot be stopped.

My position on "right to work"- another slick named piece of garbage- has been the same--- the state has no right to interfere in what me and you agree to. Two consenting adults are just that. Consenting. They have no rights to declare whats fair, allowed, etc.

Getting people to exercise it is a whole other story.

The circumstances to organize now are no where near as difficult as they were in the 30's. Its all there for the taking. I can pass out all the literature I want, but it comes down to people wanting it. I can't force that.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

UAW

C'mon.

Let's hear your oration.

Let's hear you tout the SEIU!!!

Teachers unions!

Better yet, let's hear you tout collective bargaining.

Your position on rtw, is either right wing or purely libe(R)tarian.

It's not about two consenting adults, when one of the adults is a corporate citizen with roots all the way back to Wallstreet.

Collective bargaining!!!

Is what they HATE.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

"It's not about two consenting adults, when one of the adults is a corporate citizen with roots all the way back to Wallstreet."

Then stand the fuck up already for cryin out loud!! wtf...

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

That's not saying anything at all positive about unions.

You fail to understand the concept of collective bargaining.

Ziltch.

In fact as usual, you are driving the conversation way from them and attempting to insult.

So.

Hey??

How are you doing on the money trace in N. Carolina?

You never did make the connection.

I doubt you will.

You've avoided everything so far.

[-] 0 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

There is no way a small group of people can withstand the bargaining power of tens of thousands if they use that power.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

You get less clear with every single statement.

"right to work" prevents them from fully utilizing that power and the rewrite of union history reinforces it.

The rewrite that's the topic of this thread.

It's a rewrite being perpetrated by the right wing and libe(R)tarians.

While they rabidly force right to work down peoples throats.

and you just shrug. because you endorse the libe(R)tain tripe on the subject.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

come back down to earth, son.

http://wepartypatriots.com/wp/2013/08/08/teamsters-at-mckesson-in-year-two-of-contract-fight-while-ceo-takes-159m-pension-benefit/

Oh, and let us know when you can throw a fastball over the plate for a strike at 99mph.

[-] -2 points by Narley (-634) 8 months ago

Are you kidding me? Why should people be forced to pay money to a third party (Union) just to be able to get a job? Seems to me people should have the right to "not" join a Union if they so choose. Getting a job should not be dependent on joining a union. History tells us some unions are as corrupt as the companies.

It's fine with me if people want to join a union, but I shouldn't be forced to pay my hard earned money to a Union just to get a job.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

OIC

You much prefer to bitch about what you're not getting.

How you can't afford to make the country a better place, because you don't earn enough.

You are a conundrum.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

Limiting unions and forcing people into unions are both unacceptable.

The state has no right either way. Right to work is a pile of garbage, just like a lot of moves of the union leaders.

It all comes down to centralized power and the people have no say in the affairs.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

See?

Anti-union at every turn of conversation.

Cribbed from CATO, this is.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

Did you collectively bargain to send all of our jobs out?

No? Well the answer isnt more unions, its better unions.

Let me know when you catch up to reality. Until then, keep pretending the only problem is the legislators.

Its much deeper than that.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

We tried, you lying, disingenuous fool.

Shove your CATO crap back where it belongs.

You still haven't offered a cogent comment on the topic.

Driving it farther away with every post.

Who is it you think is rewriting union history?

And yes, the answer is more unionization, not less.

They will be good or bad, because they are made up of humans, bargaining with other humans, some as far from the truth as you..

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

Stay on it and tell everybody!

Massive False Flag posting going on !!

Unite and Win!!

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Unions made the middle class and the country strong.

It was giving the workers a collective voice and they didn't like that.

So now they attack the USPS.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

Absolutely!!

Unfortunately, in the day, the hard fought successes some unions made, were not shared with other unions or workers. Bad mistake!

This seeded resentment against Unions and their current demise (with massive Big $ help).

Unionized (Organized) Labor and Collective Barraging RE-Education is in massive need! They don't know!

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

Headline and lead or I don't go!

Unite and Win!

[Removed]

[+] -4 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

People who vote for free trade signers are the underlying problem in all of it.

Union or no union doesnt matter when you job is on a boat leaving and saying "fuck you" on the way out.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

That's what happens when folks like yourself promote "right to work" legislation, while screaming about how they are "not anti-union".

Yes you are.

[+] -4 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

I dont promote right to work or forcing people to unionize. Let them decide.

Like Ive said before, the power is in the people. Perhaps you should get out more often and preach some of this stuff if you care about organizing so much?

I actually work with some groups that focus on unionizing while you sit here making baseless acusations all day, every day.

[-] 3 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

OIC

Misunderstanding is your forte.

You just support the legislation that hinders unions.

and then you toot your horn.

All that without a single comment on the thread topic.

[+] -4 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

I dont support any of their legislation.

Besides posting on the internet, what exactly are YOU doing about any of it? I mean, you are in ground zero for manufacturing getting screwed.

[-] 2 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

hchc?

WFT

I get tired of you pretending you just got here.

I've answered this question of yours so many times, I am very tempted to start swearing in frustration, but I won't.

I will just say that your constant repetition of a question I've already answered to you numerous times, is why I have NO respect for you.

How many times have YOU been banned?

Under how many nameplates?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

HCHC the bus stop boxer!!!

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Prime purveyor and spokes model for the soap opera of the banned.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

Just say it: Troll!

False Flag TROLLS!!!

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

Sounds like Get A Job!! type logic to me.

People just want a level and transparent set of rules shooz. Something humans have been fighting for since long before this site popped up.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Around here?

It's what trolls bitch about.

it's a cover for dishonesty.

You've proven that.

[-] -2 points by Viking2001 (-97) 8 months ago

You do know that WSmith is VQ/InclusionMan, don't you?

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

I don't "know" anything of the sort, nor do you.

You're making assumptions.

Should I assume, by your moniker that you are the 45th coming of odin the horrible?

Some day, I hope you tire of the bullshit of the soap opera of the banned.

that would be a hopeful thing.

[+] -4 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

You dont have any respect for just about anyone shooz.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

That's just your excuse.

I think I've been plain about my disdain for bots and puppets, and those who use them.

As well as my disdain for conse(R)vatism.

You have only admited your disdain for the truth.

So.

How many times have you been banned?

How many nameplates have you used?

[+] -4 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

Why are the bots and puppets after you is the question you should be asking.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (21783) 8 months ago

The question that you need to be asking is why you need this much deception to get your message out.

[+] -4 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

And like I said, when your username is magically yanked out for arguing with someone, and they said the same nasty shit, and there they are given a pass...whose deceiving who?

What message are you lacking clarity in?

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (21783) 8 months ago

You had the opportunity from the get go, Jeremy, not to be deceptive. You chose not to. You have no message. None. So, don't play that victim shit.

What kind of asstardian shit is this, Jeremy? http://occupywallst.org/users/louisa/

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

How the hell do I know what that was?!!

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (21783) 8 months ago

http://occupywallst.org/users/louisa/

You know precisely what that is.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

They are after me, because I honestly express the truth.

So now.........once again......I will ask you........

How many times have you been banned?

How many nameplates have you used?

And one more, since you bring it up.

Why do you support bots and puppets, even though you know they do the most damage to the sites integrity?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

Who's after you??

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Why, the notorious, soap opera of the banned, of course.

They are dogged in their attempts to drive conversation.

Off base and off the wall, the lot of them.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 8 months ago

The definition of Trolling!!

False Flag Trolling going on!!!

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

You think people are pissed at you because you "express the truth"?

Why dont you try asking them.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20533) from South Burlington, VT 8 months ago

you are funny

Neocons won't discuss Unions either - unless it be to discuss the best method of destroying them.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Evasive as usual.

Is it more fun to be in with the "in crowd"?

I always did piss them off.

Some things never change.

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

Thats funny, because the "in crowd" is usually Dems and Reps.

Its why you guys shut us down.

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Who's "them"?

How many times have you been banned?

How many nameplates have you used?

Why can't you say good things about unions?

[-] 1 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

"won't apologize, for what I've been taught. I'm only sorry that you weren't.."

Will you answer any of the questions, or will you continue to pretend hchc knows best in all things and all ways, therefore whatever means you use to an ends is OK?

NO words on the UAW

No words on bots and puppets.

No words on who "them" is.

Just constant spinning 'round and 'round, never facing a single truth asked of you.

[-] -3 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

Everyone has made it clear they are sick of you marching around demanding answers to your questions.

And here you are, a recovering "libe(R)tarian" who wants everyone to follow along.

No thanks. I dont need people to lead me. And I really dont need to be answering quesitons to neocons such as yourself.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

You're a constant liar.

Avoiding the truth at every single turn.

You're a union hater.

That isn't even honest enough to admit it.

Not a single solitary word.

You're a fraud and a hater of the 99% that's even called them names.

I no longer have any issue at all with you being banned.

I have an issue with you constantly returning to perpetuate your lies.

A name caller that cries like a baby when it gets turned on you .

Get a life beyond your marketing firm BS.

SCREW the soap opera of the banned.

And all who defend them with lies and insults.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Who's them?

Who's us?

Please don't wonder why your evasiveness begs ever more questions.

Questions, which of course, your non answers beg even more questions of.

So, in the final analysis, all your defense of the soap opera of the banned has done, is pay an extreme disservice to unions, by way of complete avoidance of the topic at hand.

Kudos for opacity?

I'm sure your fellow members of the "in crowd", will be giving them to you.

[-] -1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

You are really out of touch.

Try getting out to support the unions instead of sitting on this site if you care so much about them, Otherwise you're just another hypocrite. They're right in your own backyard for crying our loud!!

"soap opera of the banned" What an self absorbed asshole.

Us attempting to raise hell about being silenced is a diservice to unions. You are one slippery little rat Shooz.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Who's "them"?

Why do you "them" as an excuse for you to support puppets and bots?

I believe I've also been clear, that at an early age, I was taught to question everything and everyone.

I won't apologize, for what I've been taught.

I'm only sorry that you weren't..

Are you using your current nameplate to pretend you didn't hear me admit these things?

[-] -2 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 8 months ago

"I won't apologize, for what I've been taught. I'm only sorry that you weren't.."

Attacking what now? Upbringing? Family attacks, nice.

You're the one who wandered down the Libertarian path, following the Koch Brothers, not me.

Perhaps you didnt get taught as well as you thought.

Judging from your intolerance here, I hope you aren't "teaching" anyone anytime soon.

[-] -3 points by Solzzzz (-9) 8 months ago

Private unions are good. Public unions are bad. Shoes shills for both. Shoes hates taxpayers.

Hypocrite.

[-] 0 points by shooz (26731) 8 months ago

Not really, unlike you , I don't mind paying people for the jobs they do.

You hate workers.