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Forum Post: Union Busting: A New Beginning

Posted 1 year ago on Feb. 15, 2013, 4:56 p.m. EST by shooz (17749)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Watch as the influence of the Randists, takes hold in Canada and listen carefully as you hear the story of union dismantlement begin anew.

Same old playbook, different country, different millennium.

Any bets on how long it will be before they are referred to as thugs?

http://rabble.ca/columnists/2013/02/unions-are-more-necessary-ever-defence-against-powerful-interests

56 Comments

56 Comments


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[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21424) 1 year ago

"It's that same corporate elite, and its political and media supporters, who now assure us that unions are no longer relevant.

This is curious, since corporations still see the wisdom in collective action for themselves; they band together to form business lobby groups. But, when it comes to working people, collective action is apparently out of date."

Great point.

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

We're not dead yet.

Unionization still possible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/16/panera-bakers-union_n_2688639.html

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21424) 1 year ago

Nice. Good luck to them. Power to workers, everywhere!

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

They/we need the luck!

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

Most of management could be replaced with computers. Unions are indispensable if you have a workforce.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21424) 1 year ago

LOL. That is so true.

[-] 3 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

I can still remember what caused all those tire blowouts in the Ford Explorers.

Supervisors made all those defective tires during a strike.

[-] 3 points by ZenDog (13263) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I have a solution for all of this bullshit but unfortunately it isn't even civilized.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

(que doomsday soundbite)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4

:^ )

[-] 1 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

Did you think Walker was going to let up?

The Koch's want their monies worth.

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Not me. I always knew this would be next.

Just thought I'd get the evidence into the forum. No one seems interested.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

This doesn't support the concept of duopoly.

It does however show just how far ALEC has penetrated the States.

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

It is a profound infiltration right down to the core of every state legislatures.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

Yes.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

She hits on a good point when she wonders why, "since corporations still see the wisdom in collective action for themselves; they band together to form business lobby groups. But, when it comes to working people, collective action is apparently out of date."

Nice link!

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Good post shoozy. When people start to realize that the 99%'s downward slide, directly corresponds to the demise of unions over the past 30 plus years, perhaps then they will wake up

It is not only unions who benefited from being organized, but those in competition with union workers who had to pay their workers a higher rate to keep them

And then of course you have to add on to that, the stimulative effect that middle class people had on the overall economy when they had disposable income

As most of us know here though, neoliberalism which searches for the lowest production costs while handsomely rewarding themselves, preys on the defenseless, hence unions cannot be tolerated,

And so they must be demonized

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

I thought it was pertinent to see the same tactics they used here being applied in Canada, where they have had a reasonable relationship with unions so far.

Also interesting is to hear from certain poster that reiterate the linguistics of those propagandists.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

On the down-side...yes, it seems like the Canadian oligarchs (they're one in the same in reality) have learned some lessons from our's

The up-side though is really, realy COOL, and BEAUTIFUL as people throughout the world have started to awaken to their nefarious scheme that was packaged in lovely wrapping paper

It is very important in order to build the UNITY that we will need, that we do not get "baited," and into "dog-fights" that are often promoted by our opponents

I know that is not easy to do all the time, and I definitely deserve criticism in not living up to that concept,

But we should both do our part in setting the tone on here, where disagreement between two people who dearly want our struggle to succeed does not turn into animosity

I'm up for that challenge, are you shoozy?

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

I'm not sure who you have perceived as "disagreeing" here.

I'll gladly dog fight with any who are anti-union.

The sad part is how few of us there are.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Anyone here who is anti-union either does not realize the tie between th 99%'s downward slide, and the demise of unions, or he does not want to see this struggle succeed

I was referring to the differences that we have had in the past on how our struggle should progress, and although we will probably never completely resolve them, we have a mutual respect (I hope) for each other. That's all.

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

Thanks in solidarity, for your union support.

I really like how this woman made her case.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Yes, she did a good job at tying in the plight of unions with the plight of us all

Getting ready to leave for DC tomorrow morning

Solidarity my friend,

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Oh, about 24 hours. Give or take a few.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

"Unions are more necessary than ever"

I believe you and I have both said that several times around here.

We've both been called thugs and worse over such statements.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

Yes, they are. It's a damn shame watching Canada. It really is.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

It's what happens when the corporations take over.

It's the exact same playbook.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

That is the part that is amazing. It is the fact that you can see how this has played out in other countries but still take that same path. This is not ignorance, this is calculated.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

I'm sure the PR and marketing firms involved have spent billions over the decades to study how to do it, so yes, VERY calculated.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

At some point the people will have had enough.It has happend before and it will happen again.The union leadership for the most part has sold out the workers.All our gains have come from working against not with the owners.

[-] 3 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

I'm sure you get all kinds of front line experience with unions in Montana.

Thanks for repeating the next line of propaganda for them though. You saved me the trouble and proven how deeply the propaganda has penetrated in this country.

[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

I worked union shop for over thirty years.

None in montana

The union leadership has sold out the workers.

perhaps you are to young to remember the eighties.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

What "shop" is that?

I suffered through the Great Reagan Layoff in the 80's.

You?

[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

No .never was layed off.Always had a job.always had decent bennies etc. The ground work for the mess that young people face today was laid by the corporations at that time.And Union leadership which did know better went along with it and unions continue to do so today.A polisy of apeasement if you will

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

No. I don't will, but apparently, you do.

Already you are passing off the corporate propaganda as reality.

It isn't.

[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

The fact that wages and benifits are down is not corporate propaganda.At the same time productivity and executive salerys are up.Again not propaganda.The fact that union leadership has allowed a two tier wage system for new vs old employes is not propaganda.They have done nothing but allowed workers to take hit after hit making them and the unions inept to counter any assult by the corporate overlords. It is in fact thirty pieces of silver that has passed hands .As union leadership kissed the workers cheeks.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

The 2 tier system was extorted from them.

They made all sorts of threats. It's what they do.

The rest of what you're saying is pure crap.

What's next? You gonna blame unions for underfunded pension funds?

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

I am not blaming the unions.

I belive it was the over fed union leadership that I blamed.

The unions are strong when they have not been coopted by the political system.

The leadership did know this but became all too comfortable with a large lifestyle.

It is the workers who have paid for their treason.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

never been in a union all my life

[-] -1 points by Nader (74) 1 year ago

I was in one for a couple years. You aren't missing much.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

It's hard to blame unions when they seem insignificantly rare

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

You're not blaming the unions, it's just everything you say?

Overfed? You think they're all fat?? Or zillionares? It's not so.

Unions are strong when they are growing, solidarity is understood and they have support in the political arenas.

( Besides, it's all politics, even these messages to each other.)

See my response to overfed.

The treason was on the part of the corporations who have never actually bargained in good faith and actually paid lots and lots of money to PR and marketing firms to debase unions..

Money their customers were "FORCED" to pay.

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

We did not begin this talking about what the corporations did or did not do.We all know this.We were talking about the union leadership that sits a table and trys to play politician.Most times they do there Monty Hall impression,lets make a deal.And let me tell you the deals have not been all that good of late.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

Union busting IS what corporations do, so YES it is what we started out talking about.

They DO bring union busting to the negotiating table.

Threats of all sorts are common.

What actual options do the workers actually have?

[-] 0 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

Again It is the weak comfortable leadership that is the problem.We all know what managments goals are.Union leadership has sold the rank and file out by a policy of apeasement.Nothing has been ever gained by this.One give away after the next.Now my good man the store is empty.And union leadership did not only not stop this but helped .

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

That's all you can do is keep repeating the corporate line and then end it with a personal insult?

I take it negotiation isn't on you list of things to know about.

Care to predict when you think the Canadian corporations will begin using the lines you've been repeating here?

[-] 1 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

You really need to stop repeating the same old corporate lines.

It does get old, especially from a guy who claims very limited experience with unions.

I never saw a contract that corporation didn't "sellout" on. They have better lawyers and PR.

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

Than why play that game?.And no the lawyers are not better or worse.And pr is not as good as word of mouth. The Union"Bosses"sold out the rank and file long time ago.The structure of all unions is set up in a top down structure that allows them to do this.Only when the workers are in command of all decisions is this not possible.Those who play by the corporate structure are bound to lose.It is evident that the workers in this country must organize in a New way.One that does not allow a few fat cats dictate what is not in the best long term intrest of those whom they employe.Ihave told you that I do have first hand knowledge on the workings of a union ,yet you persist in in your false statements"a guy who has limited experience".It is you who are an apolagetic for a system in which you have no first hand knowledge.I would assume that the only part of your body that has ever worked is your finger tips.

[-] 1 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

AGAIN.

That's not how it works.

AGAIN.

You are repeating the corporate anti-union line. Word for word.

Now if you would be so kind as to equate this thinking to Canada.

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

Well I am not repeating them perhaps they are repeating me!The point is that membership has been sold out.That can not be debated if you look at any contract signed by and pushed by union leadership in the last several years.All give backs.multi tier wage and benifits that not only split older and younger worker but also solidarity.The very existance of union power is Solidarity.Something that the AFL /CIOcompleatly ignored due to its president being in bed with the politicians. And that along with many other betrayals is why corporations now have the upper hand. In the begining it was the CIO that divided labor into Craft unions.This division only insured a weak divided labor movement. When Taft Hartley was invoked a little noise but no action by an already fat cat top down leadership system.Designed and run on a corporate model.With most elections styled on the banna republic model.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Unions are donating to people who sign free trade deals with slave labor nations. This is totally unacceptable and there is some reason they keep doing it. Someone is winning on the union side. That needs to be addressed.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The same options they have had since day one: Organize and fight back. Make a stand. Demand. And dont stop until its finished.

Only 3 out of 10 were in unions in the glory years, now its one out of ten. People need to start to learn how to organize.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17749) 1 year ago

How's that repeal of "right to work" going in the deep south?

It's going to our extremely conse(R)vative supremes, here in Mich.

They like to brag about what a success it's been in the south.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

They can brag about whatever they like. The power has been, is, and always will be in the hands of the people. Its up to them to exercise it.

I am working on a post on how everyone here can help organize actions, to gain more momentum. Would you be interested in helping?

[-] -1 points by freehorseman (267) from Miles City, Mt 1 year ago

Unions need to boot the leadership.It being structured from top down.This has given management all the cards it needs to defeat workers. Also need to reorganize not using the devisive capatalistic tactic of organizing into craft unions.A better model would be along industrial lines such as the IWW envisions. The new leadership must put solidarity first.Not an after thought as it is today with the craft structure.Todays leadership has caused many problems accepting two tier contracts that pit old workers against younger ones. In the end it must be a more democratic model and not a corporate banna republic.