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Forum Post: Unconditional Basic Income $1500 for every US citizen age 21 +

Posted 11 years ago on Sept. 1, 2012, 1:56 a.m. EST by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Posted 1 day ago on Aug. 30, 2012, 4:50 p.m. EST by ubi (2) This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Unconditional basic income ( $1000 / month ) is a particular form of guaranteed minimum income, which gives all people access to some income irrespective of their current work performance or their past work performance. A guaranteed minimum income in this sense is something which has existed in several European countries for a number of years, but basic income differs from the existing guaranteed minimum income along three dimensions: first, basic income is strictly individual, given to all people on an individual basis irrespective of their household situation; second, it is given to all irrespective of income from other sources (labor income or capital income); third, basic income is not subject to whether people are willing to work or not. It is not restricted to the involuntarily unemployed, but would be paid to everyone, including people who choose not to be engaged in paid work (for example, housewives / househusbands, volunteers, students, many artists, caretakers, etc.



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[-] 2 points by Area51 (31) from Alamo, NV 11 years ago

I hope it will be tax free.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

the money would have to be collected from those that gather it to reimburse into the system


it's not socialism it is giving money to populous to direct each other

those that want money can work for for the peoples money


instead of the banks providing money through loans

the money would have to be collected from the people

PoliticalBabbleKillsOWS (12) 0 minutes ago

Last sentence: Not really, because you can earn as much money as you want.

Agreed. It would be a type of capitalism with a foundation of communism. Indeed, two contradicting ideologies crashing in a strange way. Socialism is usually what marries these two into a more unified and comprehensive system.




[-] 1 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 11 years ago

A fixed basic income will probably not work well. As a mechanism to regulate a labour surplus it may have some advantages. Basic income depends on the income from production and therefore it is not possible to have a fixed basic income as an undeniable right. The basic income will be dependent on tax income and therefore less production will reduce the basic income. This will then create an incentive to work.

Basic income can reduce the supply of labour but the price of labour will rise when it is in short supply. This will increase the income difference between people that work and those who do not, which then produces a greater incentive to work. If there is a basic income then there is less need for benefits. Because people do not lose their basic income like they lose their benefits when working, working is more attractive with a basic income compared to benefits.

A basic income will reduce the exploitation of workers as unattractive low paying job vacancies will not be filled. The pay for those jobs will need to rise. A high basic income can make a country less competitive, but when there is a demurrage on the currency, there will be no negative trade balance, and the national currency will drop in value. Consequently the basic income will be lowered and the country will become more competitive. The demand for labour will rise, which then will increase the income difference between people that work and those who do not.

A basic income combined with a lower minimum wage can help to bring people with a lower productivity into the workforce. This can reduce the cost of disability benefits. A basic income will also help to make people with different work ethics live in harmony. It is sometimes argued that a basic income will attract illegal immigrants but illegal immigrants are not eligible for basic income. Immigrants are attracted by wealth differences and job opportunities. Those wealth differences and job opportunities probably will not change much because of the basic income.

If production is meachanised and automated or if we intend to refrain from unneccesary economic activities that harm the planet, there will not be enough work for all unless people work less on average. Basic income is a market solution to reduce average working hours with a minimal need for regulation. The alternatives are heavy competition between labourers or useless economic activities that destroy the planet to employ more people.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

Basic income guarantee for the US

Posted 10 months ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 12:11 p.m. EST by DMolloy (3) from Northvale, NJ This content is user submitted and not an official statement

We discussed this exiting idea in a group this morning, and should consider adding it to our demands (e.g. at Wikipedia, visible for the press). Media bringing the idea up would be a success already. Our movement might be the chance to make them discuss it in public.


An existing experimental project in Namibia: http://www.bignam.org/

Please read it, start discussing it, and spread the idea. It would be a big chance to make the US more humanistic and "free" (doing jobs only to avoid unemployment is -not- "free").

The concept is being discussed in detail in political parties and organizations of several European countries at the moment. Some (including bank CEOs) call it our only answer to increasing unemployment due to automation, artificial intelligence and outsourcing. Also, some African countries consider the introduction since experimental projects have shown that it could be more effective than development aid. A single "official" discussion in the government would be fantastic already.

Best D. Molloy


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (8266) 1 day ago

This is one way to ensure that everyone in society has enough. This is a way to stop pitting the capitalists against everyone else.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (11559) 2 hours ago

it would promote businesses to compete for the people's money

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (6845) 1 day ago

The fact that you got immediately 'stinkled' for saying that on this thread speaks volumes to those with the ears to hear & speaks to the kind of people shadowing this forum. Have a 'twinkle', I know you don't need it but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCvuVUUNHE & relax, I ain't hitting on you, lol !!

ad iudicum ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (8266) 1 day ago


[-] 1 points by shadz66 (6845) 1 day ago

"Ralph Nader - Occupy the Minimum Wage and Impact the Election", by Chris Hedges :

http://truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=6933:ralph-nader-occupy-the-minimum-wage-and-impact-the-election .

sapere aude ...

[-] 1 points by hchc (2075) from Tampa, FL 1 day ago

Too bad all those Gore votes cost Nader the election.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (6845) 1 day ago

Yep & re. 'The Minimum Wage', a couple of relevant links :

http://www.nwlc.org/resource/fair-pay-women-requires-increasing-minimum-wage-and-tipped-minimum-wage &

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/07/26/590571/top-three-myths-conservatives-use-to-oppose-increasing-the-minimum-wage/ .

ipsa scientia potestas est ...

[-] 0 points by kaiserw (212) 1 day ago

Yes, it's well intentioned, and sounds good on it's face I agree, but it has unintended consequences largely similar to what we face today. 2 wrongs don't make a right kind of thing.

It's an old idea, It used to be called a national dividend I think.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (8266) 1 day ago

This would definitely be complicated to implement in the U.S. but it wouldn't necessarily have to be just the way ubi described it. Since our economic system is clearly not working right now for the majority of people I think it's good to start thinking about new ways to organize our economy. It definitely has merit, in my opinion. We need to re-think how and why we value labor the way we do.

[-] 2 points by hchc (2075) from Tampa, FL 1 day ago

What would happen to the status of food stamps, SSI, medicaid, Sec 8, free busses and phones?

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1704) 1 day ago

I bet most people receiving these benefits are already doing a lot better than $1000 a month.