Forum Post: Truth About Minimum Wage and Jobs
Posted 11 years ago on Feb. 13, 2013, 3:14 p.m. EST by OTP
(-203)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Boehner is completely wrong when he states that raising the wage would hurt small business. It would hurt BIG business. It would do nothing to small business, because small business owners dont pay their employees like GARBAGE!!
If McDonalds has to pay more, they cannot get rid of more employees to make up for the loss of revenue. IT would make their response times too slow, and they (we will put Burger King and Taco Smell in there too) would start losing customers to their competitors.
They could all raise their prices, but the reason people go to those dumps is the price. Take that away, and they now have to compete with real food. Not going to win that one.
So their only choice is to eat it at the top. By Boehner's logic, raising min wage from 735 to 10 would be an increase of 33%. So does that mean that 33% of employees will be laid off? Not likely.
This entire issue brings about Occupiers desire for decentralization and no more imperialism. There is no reason why all of these global events would be affecting comunities if it werent for globalization.
We dont want to shop at Walmarts. We dont want to shop at Lowes. We dont want to buy food from Monsanto. We dont want to eat meat from some factory in the midwest. We dont want to bank with some multinational monster. We dont want business people and beauracrats telling us how to teach kids. We dont want any of that shit.
Communities are strong when people know each other, when people learn how to work together. All of this outside interference from DC and the States is only helping to further the fascist agenda.
Its destroying communities, its putting your favorite community spots out of business, and its destroying the basic staples of life- food, water and shelter.
An immediate disbandment of Congress and all State governments would do wonders for the people's ABILITY to fix this.
We can argue about minimum wages for days. What should it be. How often do you reasses for inflation? What, exactly, is a living wage? t PErsonally, if I was a congressperson- I wouldnt get let in, I do this weird thing called thinking and calling out bullshit- I would vote for the increase.
But its like putting pots under the sink to catch the leak. Ya, its a good move, for the time being. Will work for a second. But to then simply say "you are the guy who will change the bucket when its full" when its getting worse and worse seems self defeating.
Why doesnt someone call a freakin plumber? Or heres a novel idea- put their own plan to fix it together.
Raise the minimum wage. Dont count on this congress to do it, they are 100% funded by corporations and 100+ years of corruption, lies and greed. But go ahead and raise it. Id vote for it. I declare that we are wasting our time because we should be focusing on the bigger issue, so after we do this, we need to fix the REAL source of the problem.
And after we did raise it, ya know what? Id be sitting there all alone, with about 5 other congresspeople, going "Where the hell did everyone go, we've got more work to do"....
I was thinking about this earlier. Do you remember when Clinton did the welfare reform? So, the deal was that all of these people could go to school..........for jobs that were being outsourced anyway.. made a few bucks more and they were kept a half step up from being able to receive aid.
It's no secret, and it is very visible in Florida, that undocumented workers and those that are in the process of becoming citizens legally, have kicked the US citizens out of low income jobs. Kinda like this
Of course, the undocumented workers win detention and the fuckers that hired 'em have to pony up cash. If they get popped.
got a five pound bag of potatoes for for $2
french fry street value estimated $60
minimum wage increase petition. Please sign.
http://signon.org/sign/congress-raise-the-minimum?source=mo&id=62875-14080434-gDtmYcx
$9 an hour ?
not enough. But important to the poorest among us andsomething to build on.
PLEASE sign, and pass it on.
something to scrap over
Or not. I understand. Not everyone supports helping the poor. Hell this President is the 1st in decades to even mention "poverty" in a state of the union speech (or many others).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/02/12/obama-talks-poverty-but/
I have to take everything offered and keep fighting for more.
a real money change will be put off indefinitely
a $9 minimum wage is still poor
Sounds like a good reason to withhold support!
Thanks anyway.
Potato chips sell by the once, and don't come in dime bags.
Sign petition for min wage please
http://signon.org/sign/congress-raise-the-minimum?source=mo&id=62875-14080434-gDtmYcx
It doesn't matter what they do now. It won't be enough to offset our spiraling economy and inflation. But I'm all in favor of raising the minimum wage.
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM
OsiXs (Revolution 2.0 - The Smart Revolution!)
Boehner says "if we raise minimum wage and increase costs of employment we will reduce employment."
Business groups agree and have made this ridiculous false claim for decades. Every time the Dems fight for a minimum wage increase, the repubs and their corp puppet masters spew the same lies.
http://news.yahoo.com/obama-business-groups-differ-minimum-wage-plan-090207898--finance.html
Don't believe the hype! Support the increase for the poorest American workers.
Get pissed for the 99%!!!
how do you know when an R is lying?
when he is awake
when an R opens his mouth, lies just fall out
(say this out loud:)
why do they call them Rs?
because when something comes out of either end, it smells the same,
LOL. cute. & true.
I think that is suppose to be "politician" not just R's...
Unless you actually support the stuff going on, Bensdad.
I support many but not all of the D agenda
the $9 minimum wage is good - it could be better
stop building the F35 & finance pre-schools
Reid should have checked the filibuster
The new Nolan / Pocan amendment bill should get every D in congress to support it - Obama has supported an amendment
AGAIN
my goal is ACHIEVABLE goals & ELECTABLE 99% supporters
Forum Post: SOLUTION: Raise the minimum wage to $110,000 per year
Postedon Nov. 10, 2011, 3:49 p.m. EST by DemandTheGoodLifeDotCom This content is user submitted and not an official statement
http://occupywallst.org/forum/solution-raise-the-minimum-wage-to-110000-per-year/
yes Bensdad, we have heard that many times, which is why you may want to go to your local Dem headquarters and figure out a way to help that cause.
Couldn't agree more. Boehner really pulled a boner with that statement!
[Deleted]
raising the minumum wage is another obama sideshow.
Before Obama it's only ever been dems pushing the minimum wage "sideshow" and only republicans speaking for corps and fighting against the minimum wage.
Many people don't care about the poorest among us, but I know the increase will help people feed their families so to call it a sideshow is just offensive.
"disbandment of Congress" can't support that, there are a few politicians i like.
In fact many support indexed min wage incr, & living wage. Some support the Volcker rule/glass steagal reinstatment too.
Maybe we should identify the pols against these important issues (Which we must work on simultaneously along with other issues BTW) and disband them specifically.
And FYI minimum wage increase will improve economic growth and therefore create jobs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/07/minimum-wage-increase-help-economy-experts_n_872617.html
http://www.timeforaraise.org/benefits-of-raising-the-minimum-wage/
Not trying to be a douche here...but anyone that is really interested in minimum wages should read David Neumarks "Minimum Wage"....probably one of the most in depth looks at the minimum wage i have read. What he find is that it ends up hurting the people you're trying to help. It actually increases unemployment for low skilled workers and those in poverty.
He also recaps all of the studies done on minimum wages. What they find is that about 66% of them show similar findings. If you then take out the studies done that were poorly put together you wind up with about 80% of the studies showing that minimum wages actually decrease unemployment for those your'e trying to help.
You're second article assumes something you see quite a bit....it assumes that that money that will be "spent" by the new laws for minimum wage wouldn't be in the economy had they not implemented a higher minimum wage. That dollar difference is still circulating in the economy with the lower minimum wage....it's just somewhere else in the economy.
To make it really obvious for people....if the minimum wage doesn't hurt jobs...why not just raise it to $100/hr? Everyone in the world knows this would cause massive unemployment.....but on a smaller scale it's hidden somewhat better...as the affects aren't as substantial.
Why not fix the root problems of what is wrong with the economy first? If there is still an unemployment/pay problem then by all means tackle minimum wage. To me it's like popping your tires because you're driving on a road with nails....and then instead of cleaning up the nails you change your tires and keep driving. Not tackling the real issues.
Incr min wage hurts workers? Can't agree.
http://rdwolff.com/content/minimum-wage-blog
The website is actually right in that if you raise the minimum wage you don't see a 1:1 job loss. LIke OTP said above if you raise the minimum wage 33%, there will not be 33% less workers....that's not how it works.
But seriously...if minimum wages don't adversely affect jobs....why low ball it? Why not 100$ an hour?
Why not attack the root cause of why the poor and middle class are getting squeezed so bad? Inflation.
Yeah we must end inflation!!! I agree. Not sure how.
But I know how to get incr in min wage (which will add jobs, by increasing consumer spending/economic growth/demand and then hiring)
Why not ask for $100 an hour min wage?.
I hope that isn't a serious question. Obviously there are many politicians who will (and always) fight against any increase.
We don't need people to be spending...we need them to be saving. The fact that the Fed has to artificially lower interest rates should clue everyone into the fact that right now the US is in a major lack of savings crisis.
You have to make enough money to have some to save.
Unionize everything.
Savings rate definitely must increase. Spending IS necessary to grow the economy and increase hiring.
Savings rate will increase when we address stagnant wages by increasing wages.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/05/31/u-s-savings-rate-falling-amid-stagnant-incomes/
By Jeffrey Sparshott Wall St Journal
The government made a sharp downward revision to fourth-quarter income figures Thursday, a sign of stagnant wages and a potential hurdle for consumer spending.
The figures, tucked in to the latest GDP report, show real disposable personal income–income minus taxes, adjusted for inflation–rose only 0.2% in the fourth quarter, compared with an earlier estimate of 1.7%. The change is largely due to lower-than-expected paychecks. Real first-quarter income was unrevised at a 0.4% gain.
The upshot: consumers are saving less in order to spend more. Consumer outlays rose a solid 2.1% in the fourth quarter and 2.7% in the first three months of this year.
But the personal savings rate for the first quarter dropped its lowest level since the start of the recession. Americans stashed away 3.6% of personal income in the first quarter, down from 4.2% in the fourth quarter and a near-term peak of 6.2% in the second quarter of 2009.
“With real wages and salaries now estimated to have grown at only a 0.7% annualized rate in [the fourth quarter and first quarter], and the saving rate revised down, the consumer is clearly in a weaker position than previously reported. Lower gasoline prices will help to cushion the blow, but, as always, the direction of the labor market will be the key variable in coming months,” Joshua Shapiro, chief U.S. economist at MFR Inc., said in a research note.
The wage and salary revisions dragged down one measure of economic growth. Real gross domestic income, an alternative measure of growth which tallies the costs incurred and the incomes earned in the production of GDP, was revised to a 2.6% growth rate in the fourth quarter, down 1.8 percentage points from the previous estimate. GDI was up 2.7% in the first quarter.
There definitely is a point of diminishing returns with every business.
No one wants to overpay for their labor, but you need a certain level of skill and quality.
I think basic jobs starting out at 10/hr is ok. But inflation is not addressed, as you stated, we are all just running in circles.
I don't think raising minimum wage by a buck or two will cause massive levels of unemployment....but like you I see it as a patch job or a bandaid treatment....you're not getting at the root of the problem, just covering it up. So it's guaranteed in a couple years you're going to be dealing with the exact same issue once again.
This is why minimum wage is so low
http://bringiton22205.tripod.com/id30.html
http://www.examiner.com/article/republicans-call-for-lowering-eliminating-federal-minimum-wage
Repubs call to LOWER minimum wage!!!!
Went to a GMO meeting last night, and had a great discussion on whether politicians act on will, or if social pressure is needed to get them to do anything. I don think you get the action without the pressure.
So that being said, when they control the conversation because no one in the civilian world is making any noise on anything, then they always get to choose the band aid.
The band aids...i guess it makes it look to the public like they're actually doing something.
"So that being said, when they control the conversation because no one in the civilian world is making any noise on anything,"
The sad thing is that i don't think the people will really wake up and make noise until a vast percentage of them have to deal with these issues on a personal level. If we keep down the path we're going on...that's gonna happen eventually...hopefully they wake up before then.
Think about this: The gov is fine with Monsanto. Monsanto is fine with Round Up as a side dish with every meal. 1 out of 5 people are relying on the gov for their food, a gov whose "food policy"- why the fuck are they involved to begin with- is to bow down to Monsanto.
Its going to be 1 out of 4 people by the end of Obama, and the next guy, if nothing radical happens, will take it to probably over half.
So we then have over half the nation eating shit, thats fucking up their health AND their brains, and those very ones are the ones that are needed and society relies on to make the changes happen.
And further down the toilet we go.
I hear ya.....on the bright side:
http://www.boulderweekly.com/article-10634-monsanto-vs-mother-nature-guess-whos-winning.html
Maybe the farmers will wake up before they fall inline with the "next generation."
What boggles my mind is that California had the opportunity to send a message to the country about GMOs....how the f'k could you vote that down? I lost a lot of hope when the results of that came in.
There are studies for and against all over the place, I dont need some dumb study to tell me what is in front of my face: A corrupted government that is bombing people with no end in sight.
Disband the machine and you will find TONS of politicians you like, because they are actually real people in your own community.
Help get the process started:
https://movetoamend.org/bring-move-amend-your-community
Let's see who supports the we the people amendment introduced monday. That will be a good measure. No?
Bombing is bad we must end it.! We must also help the poorest amongst us. Right?
We can't let our military crimes be the excuse for inaction in helping low wage Americans.
Fight for minimum wage/living wage!!!
After discussing this, I realized there is another way that these multinational, shit wage paying companies can make it through a hike- make the quality of the product even worse than it is.
I mean, if people are willing to eat taco bell now, then whats to stop them from eating something that is even more disgusting?
If anyone is in Tampa for a vacation and wants some great tacos, check this out- http://www.taco-bus.com/#!food-faqs
So if you say "price" is the reason people go to those dumps then what do you think will happen when the minimum wage goes up.
I remember when a hamburg at McDonalds was $0.25.now it's a dollar and in some places more. Why is that?
Is it because of inflation, cost of goods and services going up or is it because of "minimum wages" going up or did the companies profits go up?
Do some research and get back to us -
Obviously inflation is a problem. Corporate profits are inflating as well.
85 billion a month in bailouts tends to skew reality a bit.
2% inflation is a problem? Isn't that historically low?
That is the problem. Period. When the value of the dollar has been obscured by inflation, those who do know it's value will take advantage of those who don't. It's been happening for the last 40 years.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3LcsZ1p27Tg/UOuChOrF1uI/AAAAAAAAFRc/vOSrM-LSxPc/s640/InflationChart.png
Does this help you understand?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemmanuelgobry/2013/01/03/this-great-chart-shows-how-wonderful-inflation-is/
Are you suggesting we go back on the gold standard? Maybe I should buy gold heh?
You dont need a gold standard to control inflation. You need responsible government.
Yeah. We must educate people and vote.!! Right!?
I'm with YOU!! Damn irresponsible government!
What is the problem?
Inflation, the constant devaluation of our currency to the point that it's value is blurred. The minimum wage adjusted for inflation was over $10 an hour in 1968. Obviously the people working for $7.25 an hour now don't realize how badly they are being underpaid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:History_of_US_federal_minimum_wage_increases.svg
I also support increasing the minimum wage to the 1968 level (highest ever). Unfortunately there are many pols who always fight against it.
But there are also politicians we can depend on to fight for it.
What WE the people must do is continue pressuring all polsto increase it and index it as well. Ifwe are lucky and we defeat the pols who proudly push the anti 99%, pro 1% policies we can them build on that and push for another increase.
Ifwe lose to the politicians against an increase, we identify them and retire them in 20 months.
But minimum wage is not enough, We must implement more progressive tax reform, and cut health costs for the working class. We also must end the too big to fail bankster system that preys on the 99%.
break em up. force abolishment of high interest cr card principle debt of the working class.
And we must get ALL wages up! not just the minimum wage,
So much must be done.
My question was about the current 2% inflation. Why is that the problem?
Because inflation blurrs the value of money. If you didn't know the value of a diamond, who would likely get the better deal if you traded it for something? The person who did know it's value or the person who did not?
Yeah. I never buy jewelry. Diamonds don't impress me.
So then the wage increases, tax reform, I mentioned are exceptable to you.?
Most important is education. A well informed population would never permit continued inflation. Legislation can't protect us from what we don't understand.
And how do we stop inflation?
By not printing more money.
Ok. Should we protest for no more QE free money to banks?
"Does occupy have an offshoot effort or working group on this.?"
Not that I'm aware of. We need to teach basic economic theory to the people. With that knowledge they won't settle for their tiny share of the economic pie.
Education. Yes! Agreed.
Thanks. Onward to educate the people!
That would be a start.
Excellent! I am with you on that. Does occupy have an offshoot effort or working group on this.?
exactly
Try 8-9%...
So inflation is not really 2%.? It's really 9%? Wow that's kinda high.
Any evidence of that?
Didn't consult John's data until you asked (got 9% from another source). His numbers are a bit lower (6-7% last year and 8-9% 2008), but his methodology is sound and very well respected... In essence, the basket of goods is being debased (among other statistical manipulations).
http://www.shadowstats.com/
I can't argue that govt numbers (Unemploy, inflat) are accurate. My natural inclination to distrust politicians kicks in. So I have always assumed the numbers are fudged..
Mr Williams has stated that the major changes to inflation calc/basket items occured in '97-'99, in an effort to keep SS annual increases (& other govt outlays based on CPI) low.
So for 15 years the inflation number has been relatively untampered with. It is still not accurate though. I can assume inflation is higher than the govt says. And I support efforts to end inflation. I've only really heard "educate the people" as an action.
What action/plan fo you propose?. I prefer increasing wages, investing in job creation, tax reform to benefit the working class, and encourage insourcing.
My bigger concerns are Mr Williams prediction that by this Oct we will have a major economic crash because people will begin selling off dollars. Hard to believe since we are the best economy on earth. But ok.
What can we do to prevent that very devastating (to the poorest) event.
And how should we prep for that doomsday? He seems to think Real estate and precious metals are a safe haven. What are you doing to prep.?
I'm not proposing anything, merely observing that official USG inflation figures are being manipulated and debased. The wealthy also "support efforts to end inflation" (because it erodes the value of their fortunes), usually by using austerity programs.
"[S]ince we are the best economy on earth" is a subjective value judgment. Perhaps Mr. Williams knows something we do not....
His writings have not impressed me. I've always known the govt manipulates the numbers. and he seems very much like a doomsday prepper.
I can't say he has proposed any particular solutions, do you know of his proposed solutions?
Am not particularly concerned wether or not his work impresses you. His work is what it is, taking the raw numbers and crunching them... As far as doomsday prep is concerned, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. Considering the political, economic and financial circumstances we face, I'm inclined to agree with John, if for no other reason than he has a long-standing and accurate track record.
As far as "solutions" are concerned, until both Ds and Rs are removed from power, there will be no solution.
Then I guess doomsday is coming. Mr Williams "long standing and accurate" opinion is that the economic doomsday is coming in about 8 months so I suppose you're preppin huh?
Not particularly. I've suspected for a long while that things would come to a head, sooner or later. As far as John's October timeline, perhaps he knows something (as a result of his particular interest) we do not. All I can say is that he's made some accurate financial and economic predictions in the past. But no one is one hundred percent -- we all make mistakes.
http://www.shadowstats.com/
On the other hand, based on what is obviously going on around us, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Obama Administration thinks there will be serious social dislocation in the near future. DHS issuing reports that domestic terrorism (in the form of returning war veterans no less) is our most serious threat? Buying an enormous stockpile of weapons and ammunition for domestic agencies? Congress passing the NDAA and a President claiming both legislative power (executive orders) and that he can murder, excuse me, execute, American citizens (not to mention the rest of the world) at will based on secret evidence in a complete absent of due process? What Constitution?
Reminds me of the financial industry lobbying (successfully) to tighten bankruptcy laws during the go-go days of the boom, 2004-05, when seldom was heard a discouraging word about the housing market.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/14389-austerity-us-style-exposed
It's a judgment call regarding when, but not if.
Aaaah so the president is getting ready for massive civil unrest?
Wow I better buy bullets, and canned food. It's all going to shit. There is no hope.
But you are NOT prepping. I guess you don't really believe it or you don't really care?
You do a lot of guessing about other people...
I ain't guessing that the Pres/Govt is expecting massive civil disobedience.
Have you heard about the FEMA army/camps? I heard the "brown shirts" were being readied to come confiscate our guns in order to blunt the massive civil unrest you described.
Did you hear that?
"doomsday" will be brought to the usa via the obama administration.
Ok so we got 4 years until the end? I just read one of you guys claiming it's gonna happen by oct '13.
No?
No. You are.
what i do is my business.
As long as you are safe & prep for the coming doomsday.
Good luck.
whatever you have to.
What are you doing about it.?
dhs( and other agencies) buying billions ofrounds of ammo and guns, state by state laws that conficate guns, obamas civilian army = fascism
I know. What should we do?