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Forum Post: true in spain and true here

Posted 8 years ago on July 13, 2012, 7:15 a.m. EST by flip (7101)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Julio Novillo: "We, the workers, have to sacrifice ourselves for others — for the bankers, for those who don’t pay their taxes. There is no equitable distribution of suffering over this crisis. The same people always pay: the public workers and non-public workers." - i might add that the same people benefit also - the .1% - notice the decimal point!



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[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 years ago

''The Bell Tolls for Spain's Two Party Era''

''Spaniards have delivered a punishing blow to their nation's establishment political parties, while the left has made major gains. For decades, Spanish politics has been a two horse race. - But Not Anymore.''!

Hola flip :-) Happy - Solstice/Xmas/Yule/NY & Much Merry Mularkey at you & your nearest and dearest.

Solidaridad y Viva Los Indignados ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23372) 5 years ago

All survivors of this forum should read this piece about the Occupy movement (all former participants, too!). You will find it very moving.

You'll have to click on the link embedded in this tweet:


So many truths.

"Occupy Wall Street created a new discourse, brought thousands of people into the movement, shifted the landscape of the left, and even facilitated concrete victories for working people. But at the same time, a substantial chunk of its leadership was allergic to power. And we made a politic of that. We fetishized it, wrote articles and books about it, scorned the public with it. Worst of all, we used it as a cudgel with which to bludgeon each other."

"And when I’m in doubt, I remember the most important lesson I learned at Occupy Wall Street: We don’t know shit. The secret truth is that Occupy Wall Street wasn’t supposed to work. But it did. It created a whole new world of possibility. That possibility is here — we can feel it in the very heart of the movements being born around us. And we have been invited; the only question, now, is whether we will rise to the challenge."

[-] 4 points by Viking (417) 5 years ago

Thanks. It took a bunch of mostly young people in a NYC park to awaken us. They will forever have my respect, and gratitude.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23372) 5 years ago

Mine too. We hear it everyday now. The 99%, the 1%. Occupy shined a light on inequality in America, and planted seeds of change that are beginning to grow.

[-] 3 points by Viking (417) 5 years ago

I agree, I think that Occupy's main legacy is that it "..shined the light on inequality in America," brought back activism at a time when we needed it most. The cat is out of the bottle, and it is not going back in.

Some of the people in Occupy have moved to groups that are dealing with their biggest concerns, or in other cases where they feel they can make the biggest difference. People also had to find an equilibrium in their lives where they could maintain their involvement, while at the same time concentrate on their everyday lives. That's vital. I think we all realize that we are a lot more helpful to the cause when we are able to maintain our own health. Establishing that, and building friendships with kindred spirits along the way will be invaluable especially in the darker days, which will undoubtedly come. Even so, I hope we can get it together in time.

One of the things that I have gotten back into over the last couple of months are Letters To The Editor. You learn the different peculiarities that different papers may have, and whether they have a word limit or not. And sometimes you have to bite your tongue, and not say that someone is an asshole, even if he is!! lol That's good though, and it has forced me to write in, I believe a more convincing way... I try to be polite, plain spoken, but in a very firm, and sometimes in a smart ass kinda way. The Forum, and the people on it, no matter what relationship I had with them, prepared me quite well. :). Thanks...

Anyway I have written two letters to one of the local papers over the last couple of months. Actually the paper is a free one... circulation (guessing in the low 1,000's).... does not come out daily.... has mostly news about the towns in the county.... lots of advertisements.... an editorial, and a full page (often more) of letters from either regular dudes, people affiliated with different groups, or politicians. The latter also write columns on another page telling their constituents what a good job they're doing (while they kiss their corporate benefactors' asses). Gee I've gotten really cynical.

My last letter that appeared in the paper was in response to my Congressman (US) R who heavily criticized Sanders in his debate for saying that climate change was a national security issue. The fact that changes in the climate, the link to fossil fuels and the very detrimental effects it had on people in his district did not even seem to register on his richter scale bothered me a lot! I wish that I had done a bit of a better job, but overall wasn't too unhappy with it. The best part was when I went to the library to get some more copies of the paper, and knowing that one of the offices in my Congressman's district is nearby.(the next bldg. over).. I decided to take a walk over there to see if him or his staff had seen my letter, and give them a paper if they hadn't. I told the guy at the front why I was there, and then an aide who had overheard us, and who had read my letter invited me to a table in the back where we had a 20 to 30 minute conversation. I didn't want her to feel intimidated and didn't want to seem like a lunatic, and I don't want to misrepresent her here though. Much of what I had to say was already in my letter, and we had an interesting conversation on other stuff too. I do really think that deep down, she knew that a lot of what I had to say was true, and it was indefensible to her. I suspect that she will have more meetings in the future with people like me (and you too).

I sent in another letter ... better than the previous one in MPOV, that might be in the paper soon. That letter was in response to a Town Councilman who wrote in to give his warped advice on the war on terror, and in particular, us buddying up with Israel. I hope that it gets in as it was kind of hard.hitting.

We should all look for ways to advance our movement in our everyday lives.....seeking good conversations, supporting good businesses, and voting with our dollars, in general are excellent ones. And we have to realize that the changes we want, although much more profound, start with ourselves.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23372) 5 years ago

"The cat is out of the bottle, and it is not going back in." That's right. They can no longer convince people that being poor is one's own fault. We now know that the 1% has been hoarding profits for themselves and underpaying workers and creating economic havoc for the 99% for 40 plus years now. Trickle down was at best a myth and at it's worst, a blatant lie. We're now coping with these truths and change is on it's way thanks to activists, like you, who have continued to spread the word loud and clear.

Activism of any type, any medium, and any voice is important. And, you, for one, have found so many different ways to be an activist. You are a stellar model for the rest of us and I'm honored to have shared this forum with you for so many years now. All the best for 2016 and may all of our hard work make for a better future for our children and grandchildren and future generations to come. May they find a world that is healthy, not only environmentally, but economically, socially and politically as well.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 5 years ago

Thanks for understanding my confusion ...;-) on that idiom. My kids would most likely have had a good laugh with that. The purpose of my sharing some of my "activism" is not to put myself on a 'pedestal,' but rather to encourage us all to share what we are doing, or could be doing.

Throughout most of my life, I would not have had the time to do what I do now, and believe me in comparison to many others: That isn't much. Our situation is very serious as we all know, but that does not mean that we cannot have fun with some of our activism. Before this is over we undoubtedly will undergo a wide range of emotions, and they won't all be good. Is it worth the risk? You bet it is! Just look at your progeny. So regal in your efforts, and build camaraderies with those people who are on the same path.

You didn't need me to tell you the latter, obviously. Thank You. It's been a pleasure being on the Forum with you too!

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

The cat is out of the bottle

Goat'n - the cat is out of the bag - the genie is out of the bottle.

Can you be more lame?

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

Maybe the genie IS the cat that drank the bottle dry so it is not going back in for nothing. Pouring a shot of whiskey into the hole may entice it.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 5 years ago

Another snide comment from you. I'm not surprised.

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 5 years ago

A great organizing mind in that one, eh? Snarky, irritable and very easily insulted. Sounds like a typical D/R politician to me!

Happy New Year friend.

And you would be laughing your ass off if you saw my crew of friends and me when out partying all doing our Viking Horn noises together like a bunch of, well, crazed Vikings :)

[-] 3 points by Viking (417) 5 years ago

Yes the Vikings were barbaric (at times) heathens, and wild, "crazed" partiers. That's inarguable and the former is indefensible, but they were more than that. We should incorporate many of the lessons that they left us into our everyday lives especially since we are in the struggle of our lifetime now.

The Nine Noble Virtues: Viking Values for the Warrior Lifestyle


The Vikings were also known to be very good traders, having even traded in the Middle East. I remember visiting Birka, a Viking stronghold and burial ground, years ago. I bought a little book at the gift shop called, The Viking's Guide To Good Business, and sent it to one of my daughters who has her own business. When she finally did read it, she got back to me and told me she loved it as it reinforced the way that she did business, and it provided a simple, yet powerful guide for her. I do know that doing business in an unethical manner is strongly discouraged in the cottage industries that her and her peers run. She has turned away opportunities from people that were ignoble. To me, this shows the change in ethos that we must have is well underway.

All The Best to You and Your Loved Ones for the New Year and beyond. So you (me too:) can whoop it up, but you have to do the right thing too. :)

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23372) 5 years ago

"Podemos has run a campaign of anti-austerity, anti-corruption and anti-status quo."


Hmmm. Imagine if American politics was no longer a two horse race?

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 years ago

Prof.R.D.Wolff .. ''on Spain's new left government, how Harvard is run like a business and new research showing how widespread hunger is.''

IF Bernie gets removed from POTUS run by HRC & The Corporate Donkey Machine - then he should run for POTUS as an Independent & use the Democratic nomination procedure & pahlava - as a springboard as I believe that Sanders wins any three-way between HRC, Trump & he! IF D.Trump gets ousted by the RNC machine then maybe he can do the same!! Thus - that could spell the death-blow for US Duopoly!!!

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23372) 5 years ago

Down with austerity.

"Austerity is so powerful today because it feeds off of itself. It makes people uncertain about their lives, their debts, and their jobs. They become afraid. It's a strong disciplinary mechanism. People stop joining forces and the political status quo gets locked down.

Even the name of this tool, the "cyclically adjusted budget," carries an aura of respect. It diverts our attention. We don't question it. It creates a barrier between the individual and the political realm: it undermines democratic participation itself. This obscure theory validates, with its authority, a big economic mistake that sounds like common sense but is actually snake oil - the notion that the federal government budget is like a household budget. Actually, it isn't. Your household doesn't collect taxes. It doesn't print money. It works very differently, yet the nonsense that it should behave exactly like a household budget gets repeated by politicians and policymakers who really just want to squeeze ordinary people."

"...the cyclically adjusted budget can be easily maneuvered depending on which way the political winds are blowing." From your link above.

I'd say OF COURSE the "the cyclically adjusted budget" can be manipulated in any way we wish or dictate because economies are man made. Economic systems are not part of the natural ecology of the earth. Man makes it, man controls it. Time to control and maniupulate the economic system to work FOR THE PEOPLE.

[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

Yes - ''Economic systems are not part of the natural ecology of the earth. Man makes it, man controls it. Time to control and maniupulate the economic system to work FOR THE PEOPLE.''!! + Further, fyi, re.Duopoly - consider:

I excerpt .. ''The economics of our politics is deepening. It is no longer totally trapped in the tedious old debate over private versus public ownership, and markets versus planning. The Twentieth Century - was obsessed with what were two parallel forms of that debate: (1) "Capitalism versus Socialism" and .. (2) Neoclassical versus Keynesian economics. That obsession is dissolving in the 21st century.''

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8277) from Phoenix, AZ 8 years ago

We hock the country to the bankers so the 1% will own the output of the citizens forever, almost got messed up for the USA in 1993, but by 2001 when it started to shrink the debt, some people raised a stink about too much coming in and got the taxes cut, before any real harm was don to their plan.