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Forum Post: Trapwire

Posted 1 year ago on Aug. 13, 2012, 2:47 a.m. EST by NLake72 (510)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Trapwire is a yoke no American, no human being, should be willing to endure.

One day the people will rise up and cast off the chains of their masters, and say firmly "no more."




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[-] 2 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I'm old enough to remember when your "permanent record" was a joke told to small children. Now it's a commodity created and updated by the exact people who have no business making money by getting in my business.

I happen to be young enough to have been a recipient of just that kind of warning . . .

As far as cameras go - I find them to be a piece of dual use technology. I lack sufficient data to determine if their overall positive affect is outweighed by the negative or not - and I cannot see the end result of the trajectory of time on this issue.

It is, perhaps, subject to the outcome of this, and other like, intense debates taking place even now . . .

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 1 year ago

I'm ok with security cameras in general, I trust that the images are generally put to honorable uses. Trapwire is a subversive attempt to actively betray that civic trust. Frankly, it's no different than if some pervert was selling stolen video of shopping mall dressing rooms. It's a complete violation of our privacy for somebody else's personal gain.

If anyone should be angry and protesting, it's the police and soldiers who are sworn to defend our civic freedoms. These are tools they use, supposedly for good purposes, that are being twisted into something maniacal and decidedly evil.

Trapwire is a line in the sand. Or, it should be.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

In my opinion it is simply an update of something already in use - but the term will certainly serve as a flag pole - hopefully lightning rod in this instance.

I began screaming about this entire topic mid to late 1997. It was already highly sophisticated by that point.

By it I do mean predictive behavioral technology as a whole.

Some of trapwire is advertised as simply an automated analytical tool to identify reconnaissance of sensitive targets. A benign use, when used as advertised.

I would love access to the technology - I would turn it all on the pnac gallery of fools, just to watch them squirm . . . .

  • and I would make them squirm
[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 1 year ago


Yeah, I figure the cat's long been out of the bag, but what the heck :)

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

has it? I found a definition of the term

  • neural linguistic reprogramming

in a dictionary in 98 or 99 - later the book disappeared.

No psychologist I have spoken with will discuss it.

Any predictive behavioral model provides opportunity to interdict. A predictive behavioral model taken to it's logical conclusion must predict death - for death is the ultimate conclusion of life.

If we can predict death, we can incorporate that prediction within a neural linguistic environment and use the prediction to modify behavior.

What I am saying is we can conduct mock execution - right in public - using clueless actors, and that mockery can be attended by the appearance of death, death for which one is, apparently, responsible for, when the suggestion is crafted in such a way that the message is behave or else.

If we can predict death, then we can engineer death - and the entire process as above also applies.

the public presence of tripwire as a product for sale on the open market, and out in the open, is an indication of the comfort people who deal with such products feel . . . and that should be indicative of the need to act, and act as quickly as possible, to round these people up, and lock them away or kill them, as quickly as may be.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

can we get an umpire in here?

I have never seen NLake post anything that merits removal, and I do believe it will prove uncalled for in this case.

Who is behind it. What is the agenda. I should not have to ask again.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (5783) from St Louis, MO 1 year ago

Your questions are rhetorical.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

sometimes I begin to suspect that perhaps all questions are rhetorical - and suddenly I am convinced that that is both true and not true

in any case . . .

back to the rhetoric?

[-] 2 points by NLake72 (510) 1 year ago

Rhetoric is the only way to win this revolution. At the same time, a great way to agitate and draw attention to Trapwire has been suggested in the OP link. Non-violence at all times, of course, but we can unify against an Orwellian police state, and Trapwire is a silent attempt to profit from the sale of our personal privacy... for no legitimate reason.

So, I think we suffer from camera pollution, what do YOU think? Wait. Don't speak, don't even think it. Instead, let your actions speak louder than words. Read the #Op Trapwire, and consider where your personal line in the sand is actually drawn. If not here, then where?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I don't care one way or the other about the cameras themselves.

The reason that I do not care about the cameras themselves is because the possibilities posed by those cameras already exist without them.

While the cameras in one geographic area may extend the capability of a single small network to engage in stalking and intimidation, in another area they may serve to reduce that capability - it all depends on who is conducting the data analysis and what they do with it.

I've been in pocket for 13 years, more or less. I take it for granted that if I chose to break the law, I may well be permitted to get away with it. I also take it for granted that at some point, there will be consequences.

What you are asking, in essence, is at what point will my own personal rebellion cross the line into illegal behavior.

I do not think any of us want an answer to this question.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 1 year ago

I agree, it's a radical step, and the downside risks are very high. Also, you're quite correct that the technology exists otherwise, and so it's a bit of a waste of time and energy. Given those facts, I think this is one of the best ideas anonymous ever came up with. I'm not an anon, nor am I OWS, nor am I affiliated with any group. However, this strikes me as a really great way to generate emotions about the topic, and maybe enough citizens will decide to make a unified statement that cannot be ignored. I'm on the watchlist already, but that's a badge of honor for yours truly.

My main concern is that this is exactly what the police state wants... A way to get people on the terrorist list, and possibly justify drone technology for domestic surveillance. It's Orwellian any way you slice it, but nobody I have talked to have heard about trapwire, so it's my duty to get the word out, and let the people decide for themselves what to do with the idea.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

It is unlikely this kind of action can result in positive media coverage - and so to control public perception - or rather, to ensure the alternate view is widely available, that this action is something other than pure vandalism - is highly challenging and would require a media campaign.

As far as drones go, I believe I have seen two, on separate occasions. Probably they belong to engineering students from UVM.

Since today they may be as small as a small bird - possibly smaller - I don't see anything that will prevent their use.

And again, alternatives already exist.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 1 year ago

Yeah, the media message is critical. That's up to anonymous to get it right (and, I have little faith there, tbh.)

It probably is the ultimate jousting at windmills moment, and it may get people talking about all the wrong things, but...

Ah heck, you're probably right. Nobody I know really gives a shit, so I figure we all get what the masses deserve.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I personally don't know too many people who are interested in the capabilities posed by such programs - or the ways in which behavioral analysis may reveal weakness that may be used to drive a person quite mad.

People generally don't care, they do not understand how it can affect them. They do not understand how it may affect their community.

It can be very difficult to explain why they should, in the absence of a concrete demonstration.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 1 year ago

Well, I don't know what it'll take to raise this issue in the national discourse, and even then it'd be a slow news cycle fluff piece, if anything.

Either way, I don't support a lot of what anonymous stands for, but I think this is an idea that has some merit.

Probably, exactly Jack Shit will come of it, but #OP Trapwire is directed at exactly the right people, for exactly the right reasons, which is a pleasant change.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I have, in the past, been tempted to set my self on fire, in an effort to break this issue into the national and public dialog - but that does seem rather extreme. And certainly I would not be able to enjoy the fruit of my labor . . .

One of the major drawbacks has always been lack of an appropriate bumper sticker for such an event.

[-] 1 points by NLake72 (510) 1 year ago

Man, I thought of that too. But, would it actually get any news coverage?

As I remember it, some guy at an occupation threw himself off a building with his pocket full of fliers... I still have no idea what those fliers had printed on them.

So, no reason to set yourself on fire, because it's just a waste. And, it's an outcome that nobody you like would be satisfied with. There's a better way. There are many better ways to make a statement.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (13694) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

Thanks for the link. I smoke too much, woke up coughing, and I really should go back to bed. So I won't review the material this minute - the print is kinda small and it looks like there is a lot of it.

One of the many problems with the overindulgence in our surveillance industry is that it tends to breed what I call little networks of nitwits. This in turn can create greater demand for products of the industry - thus creating its own little technology war in a community, creating dependence, and since we are talking about tools that do indeed lend themselves to the manipulation of others . . . .

well. Who, really, can say what inspired any particular surge in demand. Industry? Natural events?

Can natural events even exist when they take place before the camera lens . . ..

And with so many networks of nitwits - spreading into networks of networks, and all of them nitwits, who can say who is piggy backing off of whom?

Or when?

If I have a predictive behavioral model, who can say no one is calculating my behavior with the model? And if someone were calculating my behavior with the model, who is calculating theirs . . . .

where does it end and to what purpose . . . .

It is a giant circle jerk - and we have global warming right around the corner.

We really should have prosecuted treason when we had a chance. Now it is far too late. Everything my forebears helped to achieve is flying right out the window.

So it does seem.