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Forum Post: Re-titled: Right to work states and what it means for you.

Posted 2 years ago on March 10, 2012, 11:20 a.m. EST by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Today, I asked for a 10 minute break in a 7-8 hour shift, I was sent home. That was to be my punishment. I told them to start looking for a replacement. I suggest every one of you start doing the same. Demand your rights at ALL cost. Never back down.

I have lived in many cities and expected a10-15 minute break for every 4 hours worked was a federal law, well it isn't. It's a state law. This story is the fate of anyone letting go of unions. If you want to get rid of unions, fine. But how do workers get rights and protections without them. How much shit will you eat for a paycheck?


Some informed debate on this thread was educational. The results of the information they offered is the reason for the following thread

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-free-ride-is-over-get-off-our-backs-2012/

167 Comments

167 Comments


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[-] 3 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

The page you linked to specifically states that breaks are not required to be given by the employer, but if they are given they are compensated. Anyone thinking of demanding their rights better do some searching to find out what those rights actually are.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

To True. A rude awakening. I had those rights in other states I have lived in, my bad for assuming. It doesn't make it any less ridiculous to expect 7-8 hours of work with no break any more rational or acceptable. So I'll be making my fight about this right :)

[-] 2 points by WildMan (27) 2 years ago

Your profile states that you live in Florida and Florida does not require a 10 minute rest every 4 hours according to the document you linked to. Florida is not listed and the bottom of the page says:

"States not listed do not require paid rest periods. All of the eight States with paid rest period requirements, also have meal period requirements. "

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I have updated the thread. Turns out you're right. Kinda paradoxical that they require employers to pay for a break that isn't required. Also enlightening that Florida has so little worker protection.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Remitted

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

WildMan has a point. If the law in Florida does not require the break, you cannot rightfully demand it.

You can certainly ask for a break and convince them that in the end it would help you to be more productive to step away for 10 minutes.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I fixed the link, the employer is required to cover the cost of 10-20 minute breaks. How can that be is no break is required? Maybe he's right. If Florida doesn't have this requirement, maybe it should. Maybe thats the case I should be raising.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Maybe Florida should but it does not. It has been proven to more often increase production depending on the job.

The point is, if there is no law you cannot "demand" it. You can ask for it, or lobby the state legislature to pass a law.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

lol, I can and I did. Law or no law, I'm not going to work my ass ff in a hot kitchen for 7-8 hours with no break. It would have been nice to have a law on my side and there should be one, but looking out for my interest never requires any backing, only a sense of self.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Oh, you certainly have a right to quit. I did not think that was the point of your post.

You have a right to chose your destiny. Hopefully you will improve your circumstance by acquiring valuable skills.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I will spend the free time between jobs marketing my product

http://richardkentgates.com

You're right, this skill thing may take me somewhere. Time will tell, just getting started.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

Good idea.

Some tips from someone in the industry.

I would update you web site. If you are marketing web site services you need more then a two page site. Ad some dynamic content, nice graphics, menus...

Make sure you include mobile and responsive wed design in your skills tool bag since there are many resolutions out there these days. Mobile is hot!

Good luck!

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

The lack of content is temporary while I finish v3 of my platform. After that, the product details, tutorials, and other info will be available on the website. Most current mobile devices render standard HTML, including javascript and CSS. The site has a fluid layout and has been tested all the way down to Iphone/Droid level with no complications. I don't see how designing for outdated devices would help but thanks for the interest.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I was just trying to help.

You have to admit the site is pretty lame and by the way it is not fluid. The header is static and the images do not resize as I shrink the window.

Here are examples of a responsive web site. Make your window narrow and you will see what I mean.

http://www.anderssonwise.com/

http://naomiatkinson.com/

Who said anything about designing for outdated devices?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

you have a scroll bar with no space to scroll, almost no text content(SEO), your topic header links extend the width of the page so hovering over empty space activates the :hover psudo.The point of a social button is completely lost by placing it in the contact page. I could go on. To Top it all off, it's built on a common CMS. Not impressed. And no, your images do not resize. Cross browser checking much?

and yes, my layout is fluid.

[-] 0 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I am not sure what browser you are using however they resize for all the important ones.

Your design is not responsive. There is a difference between text that flows in a div and a responsive we site . Make the window very narrow (320) and watch the graphics . Many mobile phones are 320 width some 420 some newer devices are 640. Then you have ipads and galaxy and Motola. "Media queries" help change the layout based on device.

I understand you points concerning SEO and social media however they are not as important with this site, It is an architect site. It needs to be graphical in nature. People building museums or skyscrapers already know AndersonWise and are not searching Google or FaceBook for an architect. SEO is not as important as design in this case.

I did not quit my job because of a ten minute break. I make six figures doing this work and the first digit is not a 1.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Good for you. I guess you felt all of that was important to me. I have nothing against you, I'm just trying to express to you that this is not the time and place for critiquing each others careers. The more I tried to make it uncomfortable for you to continue this line of discussion, the more you wanted to tell me about how awesome you are. You should think about that.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Please call and let gogle know that simple doesn't sell. For design advice, I use web design forums. You should try it some time.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

OK I give up, your site is great and will attract the business you want. Do what you want since you know better. Hopefully you will get that 10 minute break you are looking for. That is a great goal.

Web design forums do not cut it for me. My work is more extensive than web site design. They are one piece of is enterprise class service oriented architectures. Most of my work is behind the firewall. I use Java, c#, Spring, .Net, Oracle, Mysql, HTML5, CSS3, JQuery, YIU, GWT, PhoneGap, iOS, android, alfresco, SSAS...

Good luck!

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Good for you. Just say'n, don't throw turds, your shit stinks too. Glad you make so much money. I would be happy with a fraction of it, especially doing something I love.

[-] 1 points by JoeTheFarmer (2654) 2 years ago

I was no throwing turds. I was trying to help. I think you would agree your site is pretty minimal for someone trying to attract people for site development. You took it the wrong way. You need to learn to take criticism without being offended. That is an important attribute I look for when I hire someone. People skills are as important as technical skills.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

I agree with you 100%, Richard. Worker rights have been eroded to such an extent that most employers think they can get away with just about anything. Bravo. Good for you if you can afford to take the risk. In this economy, most people can't, hence the power often remains in the hands of the employer.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I can't afford it. I will begin looking for another job, any job, and will look for my rights to be respected in that job as well. Our generation is already fk'd. We fight now or the next generation will be just as fk'd.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

It really stinks but you are doing the right thing. If we want to make change we have to send the message. I quit a "temp" job a few years ago because I was being unfairly treated and before I left I told them exactly what I thought. What's worse? To sit and take it or take the risk and stand up for yourself? I'll be thinking of you and wish you the best.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Back in the day people used to be black balled or black listed for standing up for their rights. Every prospective employer would have heard of you. Effective terror tool.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

Today, you just get fired. LOL!

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Often times now no reason is required. The truth behind "at will employment". A step backwards for society.

I think I might have that policy name wrong but it is close. Comes down to you agree to work they agree to pay. Employment to be freely ended by either party for no reason. This was presented as a safeguard to unethical employment contracts. It has been golden for employers not so much for employees.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

Yep. It's "Employment at will." Should be "Employment at will of the employer" because, of course, the employee has so much more at risk than the employer. The employee must feed his family and hope that he can get another employer to hire him should he be fired. The employer, on the other hand, has only profit making at risk and has the pool of employees to choose from as the employer is the one who makes the job offer. Very unfair balance of power and not one that enables a healthy society.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Truth - This policy allows an employer to maintain a high rate of turnover. Avoiding such blasphemous things as increasing pay and benefits. Pop one employee out and pop in a fresh one. The death of longevity in the workplace.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

I think this should be one of Occupy's main issues. Worker rights. Unions failed at maintaining them, what can we do to get them back? We can't have a healthy society without them.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

unions failed? if your in a union you get breaks.. and lunch.. and vacation, and sick days.. how did the unions do anything except force non union employers to abide by these rules in order to hve workers? its the death of the unions that will let employer abuses become the norm. in 20 years.. no one will remember that use to.. you got a 10 min break every 2 hours and a 20 minute lunch. ows should push unionization. for every type job.,

right to work states cannot prohibit unions.. only instill fear in the employees for talking or thinking about unionizing.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

Well, union membership is less than 12%. Somewhere along the way unions failed to increase membership and to prevent the erosion of workers' rights. I'm not saying I'm against unions but they haven't worked so well at protecting all American workers.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

yes they do well for the ones that belong.. theres nothing you can do for workers that are against joining together to demand their rights is there?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

Many of those workers who are anti-union have fallen for the sentiment that they will be better off without the union, blah, blah, blah. Unions are bad for the corporations who will make your life better if you don't join the union. Little do these same employees know, however, that, in reality, most American workers are worse off than 30 years ago, so maybe now is the time to show them how powerless they have become without the collective bargaining.

[-] 0 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

It would seem to me like anyone thinking this way has never worked for decent people.

I personally have the "luxury" of being able to let all my help go and scale back anytime it's deemed necessary.

The flip side, they are quite independent and can walk anytime they want, I certainly cannot force them to do anything, no more than a union can force any employer not to shut an operation down.

Do you suppose Unions can negotiate guarantees of employment term and success of the employer's business?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

thats the flawed thinking that is causing the unions to die.. people believe in the goodness of others. if this were in fact true.. unions would never have emerged as the only way to force companies to treat workers humanly . and to think that abuse and inhumane treatment will not agian become the normal day to day operations if not checked is living in a day dream. i do not think you employ very many people.. if you did you could not send them all home and still stay in business. its good your a good guy.. but do not believe this to be the norm.. it is not.

[-] 0 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

or could it be that those I "employ" pull their own and can break away any time they desire, they may have to save up to provide themselves with what I offer, but, I did it.

You think my thinking is wrong, I wouldn't remotely consider changing how I do things to accommodate the additional red tape of a union or any help that feels they are unable to deal with me directly.

Have you ever owned a business?

I've a pretty good notion of what the norm is, I've been working for over 35 years.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree. Occupy should really push these types of issues. What we need to know is which companies are doing it so we can systematically boycott. We need to vote with our dollars. That'll get their attention!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

Agreed. Many, many are doing this stuff at all levels, in all industries. These are huge problems for the American people.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I think I can help. We have an Occupy group in my town finally, and there are others from Florida that come on this forum. Maybe we could start an "Occupy 'Right to work' states" thread and point people to it. Maybe see what the Occupy in FWB could volunteer as far as time and material. Thoughts?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

I'm really interested in worker rights so that sounds like an awesome idea to me. I live in an "Employment at will" state, but honestly, most workers are not unionized today, so it is just as bad as the "Right to work" states. "Right to work" mostly affects employers that have unions, although it continues the relentless degradation of worker rights.. Let me know if I can help in any way.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Right on. I think I'll start a thread later on today to see if it gets any traction. Don't want to just go spinning my wheels

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

Sounds good. I'm going to give some more thought to this as well re: what we can actually do to effectuate change.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It is definitely an issue of fighting corruption it is definitely an issue of regaining the Government - State and Federal.

We are here we are moving forward dragging issues into the light of day for all to see and understand.

Awareness Grows.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

The way I see it is that employment is part of the Social Contract. How we view, respect and remunerate labor at all levels is an issue of political philosophy. I feel we have lost our way. Profits are fine but they should never come before people and when they do all you get is suffering.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Exactly where we are today - Suffering from the misuse and abuse of the corrupted.

Do unto others as you would have done unto you. Morals and consideration are under attack and have been for decades.

And so we find ourselves here today.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

So true.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you for being here and taking part. Thank all of you supporters in the fight for health and prosperity for all.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Well said!

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

It still happens. Making it worse, is the few companies here that are buying up all the privately owned places and re-opening them under their corporate banner, meaning if you quit one, you quit them all. The diversity of ownership is shrinking throughout America.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is the truth about monopoly - syndicate and diversified ownership is the same thing. Effectively.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Instead of quitting, is getting the union in an option?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Nope, Florida is a "Right To Work State". Even if I file a complaint, it will be disregarded instantly when I tell them that I chose to quit as a result of the infringement, as if the infringement never took place.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

So your job already has a union? If so, I guess quitting was a mistake instead of getting the shop steward involved. I'm really sorry. I hope you get something better soon.

There is, however, something you cold try. It's a long shot, but there is something in Labor law called a "constructed discharge." It basically covers those scenarios in which a person had no choice but to quit, given the working conditions or violations of the worker's rights without the possibility of resolution. In other words, you were forced to quit because the workplace was refusing to comply with your rights and making the workplace onerous or dangerous. I brought such a case against an employer a number of years ago and won.

Is that a possibility for you? Have you talked to your state's branch of the NLRB?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

We don't have unions in Florida homie. Sorry I wasn't able to make that clear. "Right To Work" states are states operating under anti-union legislation (no unions).

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

right to work - does not mean -no unions. it only means that a person cannot be required to join a union at a job that has a union. dont spread this dis information!.. it is still a law that any group of workers can start a union if they so please. they cannot be fired or in anyway disciplined for doing so.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Please show me where I stated they were illegal or prohibited?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

"Right To Work" states are states operating under anti-union legislation (no unions).

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

it's hardly revolutionary to view Right To Work as hostile to unions, thus anit-union.

(no unions), glad you noticed the brackets.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

it came across as though you believed that right to work equals a prohibition of unions

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

that is implied yes. The results of Right To Work legislation are very different from the myriad of interpretations it can be argued as. The larger, overall effect can be seen in the states adopting similar practices even today.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Crap. Sorry to hear that. I though "Right to work" didn't ban unions, it just made them voluntary for each employee to pay dues or not in a Union shop. A constructed discharge lawsuit might still be possible, though, if the company was insisting on breaking labor law and punishing you for trying to make sure t was enforced. I would go to the local branch of the NLRB and find out. At least you would have more information, and it could hurt.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

do you think that once the company knew it was you causing the problem they would not fire you "at will" ? they can fire a person 'for any reason' 'at anytime' why would they allow you to continue working?

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

They can fire you at will if THEY are not breaking the law regarding your conditions of employment. Otherwise, they have to provide restitution or compensation for illegal termination, even if that termination is in the form of forcing you to quit.

As I said, I once sued a company in Federal labor court for doing just that to me, and won.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

and you still work there? and you worked there the entire time the lawsuit was pending?

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

No. As i said, I was forced to quit, and then I sued. I received $12,000.00 dollars in compensation as a result. As part of the lawsuit, the plaintiff (me) has to act in good faith to mitigate damages, so I found another job as quickly as I could. The payment the judge demanded of the company was for wages lost before I found the new job combined with wages lost to their illegal activities while I was working there.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

so you see my point.. people are not going to give up their job to complain. and they will lose that job if they do.. without a union,, a worker has no choice but to accept what they get

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

I agree that the system is definitely rigged in favor of management. I fail to see where I asserted otherwise.

However, once a worker finds him or herself in a position where their job was lost due to illegal activity on the part of their employer, one avenue is still available to them, even if difficult and without guarantees of any sort. I was simply advising Richard to pursue that avenue as one among his many possible courses, not recommending that everyone just up and quit their jobs.

My comment was specific to his circumstance, not a general strategy for workers.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Not everyone has the time to spend in court, or wins their case. There are enough articles about how hard it is to enforce these laws, I don't need to re-post them.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

No, of course not, Richard, I did not mean to imply guaranteed successor ease of any kind. I was only trying to offer one possible avenue for you to explore, and get information about to see if it could work. As I said i t would be a long shot, at best. And sometimes, even if you don't personally win, it makes the company more careful in the future with the employees still working there.

It is not a sacrifice for their sake, though, that I offered the idea, but merely a possible action for you to find out about to see if you could benefit from it in any way. As it is, quitting makes you ineligible for unemployment benefits, and that has to be tough.

Again, I wish you the very best in whatever you choose to do.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

even when owed to me, I have never collected unemployment. I have a pride issue. Thx for the well wishes, the same.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Hurt who, one business that is doing what their competitors are doing to keep up? I just don't see my targeting one company as productive, considering how many people I can reach thrue the movement about the issue, with less of my time.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Sorry, It was a typo. I meant to say getting information couldn't hurt.

At any rate, i wish you the very best of luck.

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[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Completely agree. I've watched people back down to employers on what are clear rights time and time again. Good for you for standing up for what's right. Those bastards think they can just ignore the law. This isn't just random. It's systematic. They need the pushback. You did the right thing and the rest of us should stand up and do the same.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I would like to see more of the same from others as well. Once employers realize that ever person they fire, results in hiring yet another person with the same expectations, we won't need courts or unions to protect us. We can do it just fine if "The People" would just stand up for themselves.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

the 'people' will not stand up. they are not about to risk everything they have over some abuse of rights at the workplace. look at all the fools that have i phones.. and actually do work related task on them after hours.. knowing that if they do not.. they will get fired for lack of 'getting thigs done' and they pay for the iphone and service to boot!

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Occupy? Lots of Standing? Metaphorically and physically?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

stand up.. the inverse of .. backdown in the post above yours metaphorical of course

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree 1000%. This is important.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

then support unions

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[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Do you mind me asking what you do for work? That is pretty harsh. I used to work at WalMart and even they used to give us 15 minutes every 2-3 hours.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I cook for a living.

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 2 years ago

Well good luck to you. The restaurant will pay the price in the long run. I learned a long time ago that happy employees are more productive employees.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

They go thrue a dozen or so people every year. They have 3 steady employees that talk about finding another job but never act, and 3 rotating positions they can never keep filled. But if you ask them, there really are that many losers in the world, nothing wrong with them lol.

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[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - the reality of being a wage slave. It does not really become obvious until you are faced with a need to leave.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (19203) 2 years ago

Exactly, but those of us who can stand up, must. I give Richard credit.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree completely beautiful world. Well done Richard.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (27542) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

We move forward in protest.

[-] 1 points by Frank (19) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

Check the law in your state. If breaks are allowed, contact the HR dept. or person who does payroll. If they don't relent, file a complaint.

Guarantee, you'll win. Has nothing to do with unions, if a break is a law, its a law.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

You didn't re-read the OP after you changed user names :/

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

That is why the Emplyee Free Choice Act is insufficient and we need to go right to the root and repeal the Taft Hartley provisions of the National Labor Relations Act. Further the National Labor Relations Act needs to be considerably strengthened to give union organizers (including employees active in organizing a union) have considerably more lattitude and freedom of action in the work place without the threat of being disciplined or discharged.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

HeLL YeS! thats what I'm talking about, a man with intellectual ammunition!

[-] 1 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 2 years ago

Right to work for LE$$ is what that is about.Ask any scab on this forum.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Every once in a while, when I read comments like this. I think of Orwell's "1984". Although the book is powerful, I think the visual presentation of the movie, made in 1984 no less, is an even more powerful medium for getting this whole idea of where we're headed across to people.

Starring John Hurt and Richard Burton (in his last film role). Highly recommended.

If this doesn't inspire people to rise up and throw off their oppressors nothing will.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Lots of sci-fi writers mentioned the plight of the working class in most of their works.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2740) 2 years ago

Rights are maintained by the exercise thereof from time to time or the usurpers will strip them away. I am glad that Richard has realized this perennial truth -- a necessary step to be freed from being a wage slave or being controlled by others. Demand your rights, knowing fully well that they are only abstract concepts, UNTIL your actions make them become REAL. There is NO other way because there will always be usurpers. I hope that things turn out better for you, Richard. A leap into the unknown is often beneficial for growth because the simplest formula for increasing successes is to increase failures. The odds may not change but it does NOT take multiple successes if you have learned how to play it defensively afterwards.

Richard, dangerous equipments and failure to pay overtime are all citable offenses. OSHA regulates workplace safety. The failure to pay overtime is rather pervasive as the employer can easily claim that you are part of the management. Yeah, right! I can almost hear them saying that you are "managing" the cooking and the staff (which almost every kitchen has). OSHA may have more teeth.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Thx. It doesn't take a defensive game plan, you simply omit the employer that violated your rights on your next application because they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway.

[-] 1 points by grapes (2740) 2 years ago

You seem to have misunderstood me. Often the really great breaks in our lives came due to mishaps that had really changed our minds, to do the necessary reassessment and change to a new viewpoint. It is not necessarily submitting another application. That implicitly says that others can reject it. What I really mean is: is there something that you can think of in your background, history, friends, and so forth that can help give you a new start? It is perfectly fine to go off on a tangent sometimes because we tend to get into a rut and stay on the beaten path and the beaten paths do NOT hold many gems due to the heavy pickings done before. All you need to do to be all set for life is to pick that real gem OFF the beaten path and not crow about it when the fox tells you how well or beautifully you can sing.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I got it. I wasn't debating the merit of that statement, it is valid. I spent my youth moving to new cities with no more than a backpack of clothing and around $300 dollars, always managed to make it happen, had some cool girlfriends, yada yada. I was just trying to reassure anyone else reading our conversation that it isn't hard, you just have to decide you're going to live by that standard and it will work out.

[-] 2 points by grapes (2740) 2 years ago

Very true indeed - I was happy staring at white fluffy clouds in the blue blue sky on a sunny day, crouching in a "foxhole" with a "comrade." I was basking in the sun eating sweet wild blueberries on a mountaintop. I was wading in the mountain stream trying to catch those fast fishies. There are moments like these that stay with us virtually forever although people say that nothing lasts forever. If you asked me how much money I had, I would answer, "What a stupid question!" I came with no money and I aspire to go with no money, which is just a social-organizing economic concept.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 2 years ago

Could you give more detail to your experience. Possible good could come from this with more knowledge. What type of work did you do? How long were your other breaks if any? Did other employees get breaks and not you? Is it a right to work state? Why were you so kind to give them time to find another employee? Tell us anything you can to get a real complete story.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I'm moving beyond the personal aspects of this. I think there is an appetite to address this further and more comprehensively, beyond chasing down someone to maybe give them a small fine. Social perception is the tool in hand at the moment and it's far more effective than a silent slap on the wrist fine.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 2 years ago

Then without out a clear picture of the circumstances, I could neither support or condemn you.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Your user name tells me that I am missing an important endorsement.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 2 years ago

Wow, an insult. Wonder if they even care you are leaving. We did not need to go there.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

It wasn't an insult, it's the name you chose. You decided at the point you clicked to register that you were ok with all the perceptions that came with that user name, and you decided it was ok. Don't blame me for the image you chose to project. It was however, sarcasm. Lighten up. How do you have a name like that and no sense of humor? Paradox much.

[-] 1 points by wellhungjury (296) 2 years ago

The name was done in humor, but my dialogue with you was sincere. You chose to pick at a name rather than respond to the dialogue. My feelings were hardly hurt. Besides, sarcasm does not show up too well in written copy. Good luck in your venture, though I suspect there truly is more to the story than you are sharing. (sarcasm)

[-] 1 points by dantes443322 (148) 2 years ago

Umm, where do you get the 15 minutes allowed by law? I think there should be, but I don't think there is a law regarding it.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/rest.htm

sorry, 10 minutes. It's actually only the time needed to smoke a cig that cooks ever ask for. Usually about 6-7 minutes, wash hands and back on the line in 9-10 minutes total. Thats not a lot to ask, and it's the law.

[-] 1 points by dantes443322 (148) 2 years ago

I didn't see anything on that site regarding a mandatory break given. And you're right, it's not a lot to ask and should be done even if it's just to boost morale. But it may be just your employer being a dick.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

If you didn't see it, you weren't reading it.

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[-] 1 points by timirninja (263) 2 years ago

it depends of your salary range. if it very low and employer treat you like a slaves you should say no. Another version of the same song http://www.youtube.com/v/x_2o_oFeenw?version=3&f=videos&app=youtube_gdata

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Good job, Richard!

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Thx girly. Lucky for me, people will always go out to eat :)

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

If this is documented you can report them and they will be fined, especially if they are doing this to other workers. It would be a nice thank you gift to them for all your time as a dedicated employee.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I live in Florida. Florida decided long ago to become a right to work state. What that really means is strengthening the power of the haves over the have-less. There is no social mobility in such a sate.

The complaints go nowhere except a file, never to be seen again.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Have they violated state law or federal law?

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

After reviewing Florida labor laws, in my case, no. I still feel justified in my request and actions. A 10 minute break in a 7-8 hour shift is not unreasonable. Do they break the law, yes. Dangerous equipment, failure to pay overtime, ect... it's pretty common in this area.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Richard, I live in FL too. I used to work within the gigantic machine. I am very familiar with how they operate. Employers in FL might get away with some things legally, but they cant get away with violating Federal Labor Laws, as Federal law trumps State law. They might not be in violation of either. Then again, who knows? It might be worth the effort to investigate Federal Labor Law because if your place of work is not real familiar with them and is in violation then you can nail their ass to a tree.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I have other things in my financial future. I think using this for motivation would be a more effective use of my time. If I knew I would win, I might invest the time just to make the point, but I don't know that. I do know that there are others that feel the same as I do and that social pressure is having more of an impact right now than anything you can fit in a filing cabinet.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Ok. Just so you know, you don't have to get involved in a lawsuit. If they are in violation, you only have to report them to the Feds and the government will take it from there. The Feds are operating on behalf of all US workers, and would, at the very least, order them to cease and desist.. Depending on the violation, they might fine them as well. Just depends on the nature and severity of the violation.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I have reported employers in the past and not even so much as a followup was performed. Failure to pay and not paying overtime.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

It just probably failed to get the necessary attention due to being lost in the massive government bureaucracy. In such cases, a call to your Congressional Representative specifying the date of filing and the case # can sometimes break through the red tape, especially during an election year. You'd be surprised how fast things can happen if politicians think you might go public with a violation that you let them know about, and that they failed to take action on.

But I also understand your viewpoint. I state the above not only for your benefit but for others who might read this.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I understand, but you see how quickly it can snowball into a cure thats worse than the ailment.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I don't follow. Are you talking about retribution? Depending on your company, they may have whistleblower protection in their policies and bylaws. If they don't, try to get hired next time with a company that does.

FYI, any government employee is protected by whistleblower laws against retaliation for reporting violations and/or abuse of federal or state regulations.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

no, I was talking about the great lengths an individual may have to go just to get results. All the employer has to do is deny and stall, next thing you know, it's a part time job pursuing justice.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Ah. You might be right. I've never gone through it. Others have. Each person has to draw their own conclusions about whether or not it's worth it.

[-] -1 points by SatanRepublican (136) 2 years ago

Yeah, but none of your conventionally thinking programmed people care to hear how to take care of your own using your gawd given talents and skills. Most of you truly believe you must toil in another MAN'S field to scratch out a reasonable existence.

I've tried to tell many here how to, and doing so has resulted in the rank and file majority attacking me personally and spewing counter-productive liberal vile.

Pick your poisons people.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I think you're taking the limitations of text based communication too personally. Take the average misscommunication people experience on a day to day basis, add a dash of human imperfection, and remove all the flavor until you reach pure text. What do you have?


To fix the recipe, I have my own mix I like to add.

Try harder, expect less.

[-] -1 points by SatanRepublican (136) 2 years ago

Unplug and use your own gifts to help as many as you can.

I know people who make more money scrapping trash and junk than many here are wanting to negotiate with a corrupt government to assure them as a minimum wage.

And have plenty of time for their families and lives.

I chose a much different path.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I'm a pretty simple person. I don't want or need much. My working is only a result of having family to provide for. I could easily get by on side jobs, always did when I was younger, and look forward to it in the future. For some reason, side jobs and the payer never seem to encroach on or have any interest in sidestepping rights. Doing side jobs has always been a friendly experience for me. Construction, IT, landscaping, ect...

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[-] 0 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

Unions are not needed and the vast majority of employers will treat you fair if you are a good worker. Unions have created an atmosphere whereas the individual can now set on his / her ass and the union will protect them no matter what. Unions are going by the way of the dinosaur, extinct

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Legally an employer may neither encourage or discourage their employees from joining a union. That said, I personally know several employers who are staunchly pro union and believe that collective bargaining would be of considerable benefit in their relationship with their employees. If these most sympathetic of employers understand that a union would be of benefit to workers in their business it seems to me that there is literally no conceivable work place in which collective bargaining would not be of benefit to the people working there.

What makes a democracy work are not so much elections or due process but rather the existence of mediating institutions of civil society, which includes all voluntary institutions the largest of which in a democracy tend to be organized religious groups and labor organizations. It is widely understood that for the effective establishment of a totalitarian regime the first institutions which need to be reined in are independent religious organizations and working class organizations. Labor unions in the United States today are weaker than they have been at any time in the past 90 years since before virtually all the modern labor legislation was passed, which is a kind of back door approach to an increasingly powerful corporate state. It may well be that labor unions are going the way of the dinosaur, but if that is the case, so is democracy itself,

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Utterly fact-free horse shit. On every level.

You are simply a mouthpiece for the 1%.

Go away, troll.

[-] -2 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

Go take your socialist bandwagon somewhere else clown

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Guess what, moron. Every single thing you have on your job was won for you, at great, bloody cost, by the unions you despise.

The 40 hour workweek, time and a half for overtime, worker safety rules, child labor laws, health care benefits, retirement packages, and DOZENS of other things you sit back and enjoy.

So you can take your stupid, ignorant, ungrateful ass and shove it.

[-] 0 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

Trumka is that you???

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Troll moron is that you?

[-] 0 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

Obama said he wants to make all "57 States" right to work States

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

So you must be his biggest supporter.

Prove it, asshole.

On ANOTHER thread!!

But nice try attempting to change the subject.

[-] -2 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

I bet he will too. You talk scary and your caps are much more authoritarian than any I've other seen. onetime, you probably better listen, I think it means business.

It scares me and I'm not scared of anything.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Bet he won't, since Obama is opposed to "right to work", anti labor laws.:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/13/alexander-obama-administration-attacking-right-to-work-laws/

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2011/feb/25/christopher-peace/del-chris-peace-says-tim-kaine-lock-step-obama-opp/

And this thread is not about Obama, now is it?

And Onetime's response was a total avoidance of the response to him, wasn't it?

Duh.

Tell, me, Grasshopper, what is the sound of one brain cell not communicating with any other? Troll!

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

No

the vast majority of employers

do not treat employees fairly. They provide the absolute minimum and expect maximum performance. In many cases, including those that go unreported every year, the rights of workers are violated and workers exploited. whether or not it is required by law, refusing a 10 minute break in a 7-8 hour shift is not fair treatment or ethical by any stretch of the imagination.

[-] -1 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

Unions are going away and there is less than 10% left in the US and why is that?? because the unions are corrupt

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I didn't say I love unions. Being against something does not by proxy make me for it's common alternative. I have my own views on how I would like to see it handled, it doesn't involve unions.

[-] -1 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

It would be a lot fairer if everyone was on the same pay scale. For instance a welder at GM and a welder at a mom and pops shop should be making the same wage across the board. That way everyone depending on the job duties would be on the same pay scale and employers could not be unfair about it

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

what if one works harder than the other, has a better production rate?

[-] -1 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

Then they could be paid a bonus or something on their merit. What I am getting at is for example a GM welder in some cases is making a lot higher wage then most other shops pay. When the cost of living rises then the GM worker is still making out alright but the other guy at another shop is suffering because of it

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

If I had to be a non union welder, I'd prefer to be a non union welder in a union state. If you want manual labor to be the same across the board, come live here. wages are pretty much the same, shitty. It pays to live and work in a union state, for the simple reason that the employers of non union shops have to compete with the union shops.

[-] 0 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

but if each employer had to pay each welder the same pay as the others then it would be equal. Then there would be no need for unions

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

So what you are advocating is that we raise the minimum wage and do away with the unions. Well, i believe unions do more than just ensure competitive wages. They ensure the work environment is safe and are a check against power hungry supervisors who have been known to some times allow a promotion to go to their heads. I believe if there is not a law that says this is how much you have to pay each employee, then employers will take it upon them selves to profit at the expense of their employees. They want their profits and labor is the most malleable part of overhead.

[-] 0 points by onetime (-67) 2 years ago

They ensure the work environment is safe/////////////////////////////This is not always true as I worked in a union shop for over 15 years and I have seen OSHA paid off by the company. So at times there was never any inspections

[-] -1 points by JesusRepublican (110) 2 years ago

Not even close.

What kind of welding do you do?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

How are you going to tell me? You need to stop running you mouth and recognize. I've lived and worked in many states, and right to work states are right to gouge states. If there is not a government boot on the neck of the employer, meaning worker's rights federally or locally mandated, he/she will take advantage of the employees. It's human nature so get over it.

[-] -1 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

Shut up that wigger ghetto fabulous garbage.

If you were good at what you do, exceptional even, you wouldn't need to work for another MAN.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

Take your Randian bull shit and sell it to the ill informed. I work where they are hiring. I guess i could just say fuck it, and have your sorry ass subsidize me through welfare and foodstamps, and by the attitude you have i'd probably enjoy spending your hard earned money.

Now, to address your racist comment, I speak ghetto fabulous because pretentious white speak has no soul.

You are a stupid, racist twit, if you believe you will never work for another man. You sound like my old, retarded drinking buddy who got a hold of same bad literature.

[-] -1 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

"Now, to address your racist comment, I speak ghetto fabulous because pretentious white speak has no soul."

Actually, this makes you more racist, soul man.

I only work with people I like and actually don't have to work at all.

Nope, I won't be the one subsidizing anyone. Heartbreaking, huh?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

have you ever thought about taking a writing course or two?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

so what are you saying? That you don't pay taxes. Also, I can make fun of white, pretentious speak because it is not racist to poke fun at one's self or culture.

[-] -1 points by JesusDemocrat (193) 2 years ago

Oh and what I said wasn't making fun of your white ghetto speaking self?

Save that cop out and double standard for the small minded masses here.

Wrong guy.

[-] 0 points by JesusRepublican (110) 2 years ago

I do not seek or pay for "average", "adequate", "marginal", or even "baseline". I can't afford those with lower skill or achievement levels.

Striving for fully self actualized and showing progress towards it is an absolute minimum.

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[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

i'd like an hour lunch so I can nap and be more productive in the afternoon

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

When it's your legally approved right to do so, I suggest you demand that right be respected. If you don't respect the law regarding my rights as a worker, what laws to you respect?

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[-] 0 points by SatanRepublican (136) 2 years ago

Pipe down, eat your gruel and get back in the galley rowing with the rest of the gawdam slaves!!!!

Be happy you have some gruel and I make no apologies for your having to eat it off the floor!

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

...an amusing way to express your perception of the situation.

[-] -3 points by SatanRepublican (136) 2 years ago

I've been there and disconnected from "the world" many years ago. I do my own thing, I don't bother anyone, and I do without very little.

Good luck.