Forum Post: To Those Who Would Have Us Take a Shower and Get a Job
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 5:40 p.m. EST by ARod1993
(2420)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Incidentally, I'm fully behind the protests, and I'm a computer science major at MIT. Underachiever? Pfft. Don't make me laugh; if you can call three to four hours of sleep per night underachieving then I want to see your schedule. I came from a working-class to poor family and I'm already reviewing high-level internship opportunities from companies like Boeing. And yet somehow I'm still behind these people. Why?
Because my family went through hell in order to put my sister and I on the track we are now; my mom left a teaching job to homeschool my sister and I to keep us out of a dysfunctional inner-city school system, so we've been living on one rather precarious income since I was three. My dad's union job got through almost to the end, until a hedge fund by the name of Brynwood Partners took over and decided to break the union. We would not have survived the resulting eleven-month strike and plant closure were it not for unemployment benefits, food stamps, and a strong community that really cared for us when we needed it most.
Here's the thing: because of our family and community my sister and I were uniquely equipped to weather the storm that hit us; not everyone is so lucky. Any number of small things could have derailed us at that point, and for every one of me who makes it through there are ten more who through no fault of their own get screwed out of an opportunity to move up.
I was raised the old-fashioned way; life doesn't owe you one particular outcome over another. Life doesn't owe anyone a job simply by virtue of their existence. Jobs, wealth, happiness: all of these things are earned. The one and only thing in this country that a man is owed is a free and fair opportunity to better himself, and it is these opportunities that have been drying up over the past three decades.
In the old days, if you were good with your hands and willing to work you could get top-notch vocational training and hold down a solid middle-class career with just a high school diploma (or sometimes not even that). In the old days, the ordinary American had opportunity after opportunity available to him and all that was asked of him in return was that he got off his ass and grab one.
These days, that's all drying up. Vocational training of the old sort is dying out, and half the new sort is provided by for-profit "colleges" that often screw unsuspecting students. Academic degrees leading to the professions are hardly for everyone, and whole groups of people get closed out of that game before they even realize they're playing. Getting a decent job of the type that sustained our parents and grandparents is getting more and more difficult.
In short, we will be happy to stop stinking up your parks and get jobs if you will point us toward opportunities we can reasonably be expected to be able to take advantage of. Until then, we will stay exactly where we are and grow stronger and stronger until the system has no choice but to make these opportunities available to us again.
Well written. But not only is this about creating opportunities, it is about corporations taking home multi-million dollar bonuses while simultaneously cutting 30,000 jobs.
Your story and those like you needs to get out... to those who in the media say "get a job" This group is not a bunch of lazy slackers its college grads who are smarter... I say it is about time the people stood up for the people.
Great post ARod1993! I think you speak for many - no one is looking for a handout, just the opportunity to work hard and make a decent living. Decent living = afford to put a roof over our heads, a reliable vehicle to get to/from work, affordable health insurance, and to be able to put a little money away to fall back on in the event of a crisis. Is that too much to ask? I don't think so!
The majority of Americans already have access to opportunities allowing them to work hard and make a decent living. The median income in America is more than enough to put a roof over your head, own a reliable vehicle, have reasonable health insurance, and save some of your money.
Nice. Well said, friend.
Thanks for that. So clear and straightforward.
True, it's drying up, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
From another CS major: Hear, hear!
All excellent points.
Here's the thing...you have an amazing family. You are obviously fully capable of charting a positive path, earning the right to influence others. Why on earth would you wait for someone else to point the way. One great thing about America (there are many great things) is that no one points your way for you, you get to find your own path. The path is never straight, and not easy for most, but it belongs to the person walking.
I'm not really waiting for someone else to tell me which way to steer my life nor what to stand for. Regardless of what happens with OWS I know where I want to go with my life and generally speaking how I plan to get there. My alliance with OWS is not about giving that up so much as it is about setting a little time and effort aside so that others may have more opportunities to direct their lives toward success.
I don't take responsibility for what they choose to do with the opportunities they receive, and if they squander those opportunities it's not my problem, but I want to do my part toward giving them the same breadth of options that my family and my community gave me.
Preach it brother.
naw... kick their ass... force them to give ya that blow JOB ... and a sponge bath... hehe... ok.. just kidding... maybe....
Modern vocational training: http://railsforzombies.org
Everything you said is great, and makes perfect sense... except how those people at Wall Street can actually help you attain those goals and ideals, or if it's their responsibility at all. And I am speaking as a fellow college student very much like yourself.
No one owes you nothing
I never said I (or anyone else out there) was owed more than a good faith opportunity to better himself. I personally am fine; I made it. I'm here on behalf of the people I used to know from my neighborhood who couldn't.
Sorry if i came off a little harsh, but its just that billions of people are suffering way more than we are and we should give thanks for what we were given in life. Try living in Somalia or Burma and then you will see how easy we have it.
theman is out there on every post telling people not to fight corruption because Somalians have it worse. What is your solution to the financial crisis theman? Right now it seems you are just wasting peoples' time.
Seems like you "occupiers" are doing a fine job of that yourselves.
I think it's strange that you start by talking about these amazing opportunities you have, and then close by saying that we should point you and the OWS movement towards opportunities. I really wonder what percentage of the OWS movement are just like you and already have access to the opportunities you're fighting for.
I'm not here to garner additional opportunities for myself; I'm lucky enough to be able to take care of myself from here. I'm standing behind OWS because of just what it took to get me to where I am, and because entire groups of otherwise smart, capable people are often cut off from opportunity because they're not quite as crazy as my mom was.
The reason I started off by discussing my opportunities and credentials is because the "get a job" people want to paint OWS as a bunch of fools and stoners, and are arguing that OWS is essentially a "sour grapes" movement intended to get even with the people who are successful. I discussed my credentials as a direct counterexample to these claims; I personally have nothing to gain from OWS but I stand with them because it is the right thing to do.
The "point us toward opportunities" comment was not about me personally (because as you said, I'm fine), but about those who lost their jobs through no fault of their own, or who couldn't make it through college due to a crushing debt burden, or who for some reason were never properly equipped to take advantage of the current (rather meager) slate of opportunities out there.
With your obvious intellect and ability to weather through your turbulent upbringing, why not start a business of your own? I know that sounds absurd, but the difference between me/you and those who own businesses, is that they are willing to take a risk. My husband and I would love to own our own business and may still do so, but at this point, putting two kids through college, we will bide our time. I wish you luck because you sound like someone who will make a difference, just don't be afraid to do it yourself and don't wait for government or anyone/thing else to start your dream.
Depending on how things go here, I might do just that; I have a friend who's working on a startup right now and once I get enough additonal coding under my belt I'll probably sign on with him.
I think you should. Anyone who lived through what you did and has come out on the other side pretty well intact is someone who should start his/her own company. I feel for your generation, I have two adult (19 and 22) children myself and I encourage both of them to break out of the mold, as I don't know what I can honestly tell them is going to happen in this country by the time they are my age. I really do wish you the best, dream big!
Thank you!
You have one thing wrong. Life DOES owe everyone a job simply because of existing. No one asked to be born, but since they are they are covered under the social contract. Society needs to take care of them with the wealth society has created. And why so hung up on jobs and merit? That is meaningless. Those two old fashioned ideas should not be connected to wealth.
Hi, troll.
Camu said that the only real philosophical question is of suicide. You wake up in the morning and chose to live. If you don't like it, kill yourself.
I'm a Camus (with an "s") specialist and I have no idea what you are talking about. Camus did not advocate suicide at all but - guess what ? - SOLIDARITY in the human struggle. Read "La Peste" or "L'Homme Revolté". He would be right there with OWS.
You're NOT suggesting that all protesters should take their own lives, are you?
Are That the 99% should kill themselves?
Thank you spelling police, looks like I missed a letter.
Also, here you go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus
captiandoody stated that being since no one has a choice to be born, that necessitates a social contract by which society (government) provides every person with a job.
I disagree. If it is a matter of responsibility, it is not society, but the mother and father who engaged in sexual congress and thus bear the responsibility of providing the created person a job.
However, I would argue further that it is not the parents who are responsible, nor society who bears the burden of providing for that individual. While one may not have the choice of being born, one chooses whether to continue living. Choosing to live ultimately brings with it all of the consequences and responsibilities there of, including providing for oneself.
So, that is basically it.
So are you rehashing the old "Each man for himself and God help the rest"? Is that it? That is a totally AMORAL view of life, not shared by ANY of the great religions.
And by the way, your link adds nothing to the discussion. I wrote a book on Camus, I think I have some idea as to what his beliefs were...
No, just linked it since that is where the quote is from. Grats on the book, glad your liberal arts degree is working out for you.
All i am arguing against is the original point, that life is forced upon us by society and as such society needs to provide for every need and desire.
Where did I say that "society needs to provide for every need and desire"? I never believed such an absurdity.
What I did say is that we need to look after one another : ALL of the great religions say that and even most atheists, agnostics, etc. would agree.
No great sage ever preached selfishness. That is an invention of the 1% whose addiction to money is destroying this country.
You didn't, OP did. A job is beyond a basic need.
The ethics part is a bit OT, but yes I am sure there were plenty of great sages who said that virtue is having government providing handouts at the expense of a minority.
It appears to me that you are merely trying to rationalize SELFISHNESS and GREED and if I'm right, that is truly sad. You are created in God's image and yet you say: "Each man for himself and God help the rest!" God wants US to help the rest. I'm afraid far too many Americans think that way - in a completely AMORAL, if not IMMORAL way - and it is a tragedy.
When you are rich, or have more than you need, it is ONLY NATURAL to want to share with those less fortunate. ALL great religions encourage us to do it, because it is a source of joy for all. Jesus, in fact. COMMANDED us to do it and cried out "Woe unto the rich!!" when encountering sociopathic types who refused to share. Far too many rich folks in contemporary America swear they are Christian, but are not Christic (=Christ-like) at all. Rather, they are true Mammonists, i.e. they worship Money as opposed to God. ("No man can serve two masters. Between the two he must choose: God or Mammon").
Selfishness is a sickness of the soul and in the past few decades it has become a NATIONAL ABCESS which threatens to tear the very fabric of the nation apart. Don't the "pathologically greedy" realize that by being too stubborn, they risk destroying America and thus LOSING ALL?
Beardy, I don't know if you are a "troll", but anyway I do hope you will take a few minutes to quietly ponder our exchange and I want to thank you for helping me to clarify my own ideas on this extremely important subject. Men and women of good will people are urgently needed to help America to heal!
Who are you? You are ridiculous. The guy was responding to the creator of the thread, who is obviously a dirty, low-down troll. You wrote a book on Camus, awesome. The idea of suicide as a choice is often attributed to Camus. Whether it's true or not, I've heard it before.
I am not rationalizing selfishness and greed. The hipster who wants a free education at the expense of others is just as selfish and greedy and the evil 1%er who wishes to drill through baby seals for oil.
The point is that it is legal in a free society to be a selfish greedy person, as long as you do not infringe on the freedom and property rights of others.
You can not legislate ethics. Government is not the place to address the depravity of a culture. That is for the pulpit.
What you just said is SHOCKINGLY UNAMERICAN and flies in the face of the Preamble of the CONSTITUTION:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessing of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
Boy am I glad you weren't one of the Founding Fathers. Anyway, they would have kicked your ass from Day 1.
Your heart is completely closed. One day you will suffer, your heart will break open... and compassion will finally begin to flow.
In the meantime, be at peace, brother.
I know it can be a tough read, but you might want to finish reading the whole thing: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
The rest explains what is meant in the preamble, which is liberty and property rights.
The ethical issues you raise are for the people themselves to address.
I'm essentially trying to pitch to conservatives that we have a responsibility to take care of our people. In most cases, if you provide a variety of opportunities to people in good faith they in turn will seize the one that works best for them and run with it until they reach success. Those who won't aren't my problem (but something tells me nobody in their right mind would pass up a legitimate opportunity when it is presented to him or her), and those who can't (i.e. the disabled) need some sort of safety net.
My point is that the people on board with OWS who don't have jobs, career prospects, etc. were not presented with free and fair opportunities to obtain those things and that the whole point of OWS is to give every man a fair shake regardless of income level.
"CaptainDoody" is a troll.
Huge difference between people actually taking care of each other and expecting a government hand out to solve the problem.
I am not that surprised though, we are a culture that passes the buck by shipping all of our elderly off to nursing homes.