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Forum Post: To All Those Motivated By Hatred, Rage, Greed and Fear

Posted 10 years ago on Dec. 13, 2011, 3:50 a.m. EST by GypsyKing (8708)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

You need to search your souls and see if you can't find another way.

If you have these feelings so strongly that you are willing to end America as a functional society, and in the process threaten human survival itself, than you need to openly acknowledge that fact to yourself, and to others. It is the only honourable way.

Their is much in the nature of life to produce hatred, rage, greed and fear - and that response is understandable - but if that is your conclusion then you must be willing to accept that fact, and not hide behind self-dellusion and dissimulation. Understanding the true nature of what motivates us is the first step toward a higher light, a first step towards curing the ills that afflict us all.

54 Comments

54 Comments


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[-] 4 points by randart (498) 10 years ago

It is almost a generational thing that has spawned the current human motives and fears. I am in my mid fifties and have been taught all my life how to live in fear. Live in fear and have the unquestioned desire to own things.

I remember watching The Flintstones when I was a kid and then they began having commercials with Fred Flintstone sitting back as Wilma brings him a cigarette and Fred singing, "Wintson tastes good like a cigarette should." I began smoking when I was about 10 years old. At school, we used to have "duck and cover" exercises. I watched the footage of the A-Bomb and realized that duck and cover just wouldn't help much. Every Wednesday the air raid sirens would sound at noon, to test them I suppose.

It would take a generation or two to make the transition a collective mindset of peace. It is hard to unlearn things embedded at such young ages.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Yes, it is hard to unlearn things. I know that for all of us such changes are REALLY difficult, and that being human we are not always capable of living up to the ideals we set for ourselves. I think what is required is just to make the effort. If everyone makes the effort than I really think humanity can pull through our collective crises. If that effort is not made, than I think our hopes really darken considerably.

[-] 2 points by randart (498) 10 years ago

I agree. Timothy Leary once spoke of humans getting stuck on "island realities" that were formed when they experienced their first sexual experience or some other life changing event. We need to learn how to get off our own island reality and move forward in life.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Agreed. I really think it is the spiritual component of this movement that stands the best chance of moving us forward. That was Ghandi's great insight when he first took the spiritual into the political realm. I would like to point out that I believe in the separation of church and state, and so did Ghandi.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

I would have to add here, that although I agree completely with the underlying message of your comment, I think there is a real possibility that Timothy Leary was a govenrnmet opperative, who spread LSD to marginalize the anti-war movement in the 60's. I, personally, have NO respect for Timothy Leary.

[-] 2 points by Satyr000 (86) 10 years ago

I think its important to also remember there is power in anger. One must always control there anger and not let it control them. One of the greatest motivations in my life has been anger once I learned how to focus it into determination and willpower. Once you learn to focus your anger you can move mountains and no matter how bad things get, you will keep pushing forward. I can honestly say if it was not for me being in touch with my anger and training my self to control it, I would be a lot worse off then I am now.

I was so pissed the day I got laid off and even more so when I had to start selling my belongings to make ends meet. Instead of wallowing in my anger. I took it turn it into determination and willpower. The next day after I was laid off I was out the door at five am looking for a job. I didn't find one for a weeks But, with each day I channeled my anger and used the strength it gave me to keep pushing forward. Now I have a part-time and full-time job. When I was trying to stay afloat I sold my car because I could simply not afford to keep it. Days after that here in Nashville, TN we where hit by a massive flood and I am an hour and a half walk away from work. Despite the fact that I had to walk through knee deep water to get to work, I still did not miss a single day of work. If it wasn't for harnessing my anger I'm sure I would have given up once the flood hit.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Well, you did the right thing. Unfortunately, what a lot of times happens, is that people sublimate their anger, don't channel it in a positive direction, and then it comes out in really negative ways like spouse abuse and child abuse, and on the social level, in such ways as racism, state brutality, anti-social preditory lending (loansharking) and in a multitude of other ways.

You hit the nail of the head with what you said here. We all get angry, feel sometimes almost intollerable rage at how the world treats us. It is how we channel that feeling that is key, and whether we channel it towards some positive outcome, or at the actual forces responsible for creating that feeling in us, or simply misdirect it. In a way anger is good. It tells us something is wrong. It is up to us to find a way of righting the wrong, rather than misdirecting it in ways that just cause more anger and sorrow for ourselves and others. It is these cycles, of misdirected rage leading to cruelty, to suffering, to more misdirected rage that we must somehow find a way to overcome.

[-] 1 points by MaryS (529) 10 years ago

Satyr000, fellow Nashvillian here. That is a good story. Oh how I remember that flood. As for anger, even the bible says: "be angry and yet do not sin." Which tells me it is normal to feel anger; it's what you do with it that counts. You illustrated that but I say you had some other powerful things going for you too, like a good work ethic and a lot of good sense. And guts, lol. Thanks.

[-] 2 points by blazefire (947) 10 years ago

GypsyKing....I LOVE YOU! You're awesome! Your posts are great! Your spirit is beautiful!

Just remember:

"You can either look for the light, or be the source of the light, but you must choose." - me.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Thanks blazefire. I think history has shown that purely material solutions will not really solve the problem. Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, etc., etc., have all been tried but none have proved able to solve the problem alone. That is because they are all based upon simply materialist thinking.

If we have learned anything from all this - from two World Wars - from enldless fighting and struggling with one another for advantage; it is that all this ever leads to is yet more terror and suffering. What we need is a spititual awakening, accepting of all faiths and philosophys with the simple aim of creating a renaaissance in universal humaitarian values. Those who say it can't be done are simply signing our collective death warrents. We cannot go on as we have done in the past. It is that simple.

[-] 2 points by blazefire (947) 10 years ago

Yes. It is just that simple.

"To see the world in a grain of sand..." - Blake

Omnia vincit amor. Always.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Same to you!

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 10 years ago

Omnia vincit amor - Love conquers all.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Love, truth, the interconnectedness of souls, justice, intellectual beauty; these things are real and transcendent. The visissitudes (sp) of the world are illusion. Once we understand this, the rest will take care of itself. Thanks Blaze.

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 10 years ago

No, thank-YOU! Thank-you, for NOT letting go, and thank-you for validating MY understanding. Thank-you for being a sacred mirror, for me to gaze upon, to see myself. Thank-you for giving your mind, in this moment to the community, with no thought of yourself.

Thankyou GypsyKing.

Dum Spiro Spero. - While I breath, I have hope.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Wow, are you fluent in Latin - if so I envy you! Well, perhaps envy isn't the right word - maybe admire you would be a better way of putting it.

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 10 years ago

Nope! lol. Just good with google!

Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur!

Google it to know, lol!

[-] 1 points by TheMaster (63) 10 years ago

A functional society can only be created through self interest.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

TheMaster, as in the master race? The problem is, you guys don't even know what really is in your own self-interest.

[-] 1 points by TheMaster (63) 10 years ago

I know this; you sure as hell don't know. I'll give you a clue though: depending on others is no kind of strategy.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Human beings are the most interdependent of species.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Please, everyone in the world who are monitoring these posts, we need help. When posts are clearly written by genuine OWS people, please post some kind of comment to bump these posts to the top of the agenda. We are being infiltrated by organizations that have the power to keep divissive and distracting posts at the top of the list here. We really need to drown them out with positivity from anyone and everyone around the world who agrees with this movements goals.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

To BE or not to be. That is the question.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

I just wanted to add that the thrust of this post is in some way directed towards all of us, but more specifically to those who feel they must control a disproportionate share of wealth and power. What motivates these people that they need to grind the world under their obsessions. These obsessions are a chimeara. "All men are mortal, Caesar is a man, therefore Caesar is mortal."

I would assert that the reason is hared, rage, greed and fear. The following is a thought on the matter from Shelley:

Ozymandias

I met a traveller from an antique land, Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand, Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal, these words appear: My name is Ozymandias King of Kings; Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

Source: Shelley’s Poetry and Prose (1977)

[-] 1 points by MaryS (529) 10 years ago

This may not be adding to your topic but I think hatred, rage, greed and fear are exactly what our unworkable 2-party system has produced. I voted for Obama but I live in a neighborhood of rabid conservatives, some of them probably racists; and I literally feared if I even put a bumper sticker on my car, my house could be burned down. Surely there has to be a better way. A house divided cannot stand.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

I agree completely. This is why this movement has genuinely, spontaineously, sprung up from the grass roots of America. All this divissiveness must end. We must find some other, more spiritually based way of living. We must find some way of coming together again. Our survival is really on the line over this question.

[-] 1 points by nolongerasleep (57) from Cleveland, OH 10 years ago

I have an intense disdain for anyone that is illogical, especially those that only think emotionally. Almost hatred, but not quite. If it were hatred I'd be a fascist, but because it's not, I more of "democracy for all" kind of person.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

This is a question that has interested me for years. I agree with what you are saying, essentially. But my goal is the renewal of the "integrated spirit." Man is both reason and emotion. We must accept and integrate the totality of ourselves to find happiness. Very deep questions. I agree completely with the idea of "democracy for all." The question of emotion and reason is so complex that I would probably need to converse with you personally for a few hours over a glass of beer before we could really understand one another:)

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

As soon as I step on the court I just try to play tennis and don't find

excuses. You know, I just lost because I lost, not because my arm was

sore.

Goran Ivanisevic

Applies very well here I think. I take responsibility for all of my supposed greed.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Some of us have to deal with more than tennis elbow. I was alluding to a somewhat deeper level of soul searching.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

First of all, it was a metaphor. Second off all, what is more deeply ingrained in us than greed and really any other emotions?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Nothing is more ingrained in us, the question is, are we capable of rising above that, because really, if we cannot then we will simply be allowing our own inability to grow to destroy us. Humanity is in a unique position here; we really do create our own reality. We can chose to create a better world, or simply live unconsciously, allowing the same cycles of inherited behavior to lead us to oblivion.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

Emotions and instincts are ingrained in our genes. How do you suggest we ignore them? I'm all for changing a system that doesn't work but telling me that I have to ignore my most basic feelings is never going to work for me or really anyone.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

I'm not saying ignore them. I'm saying we need to become conscious of them, and understand how our responces to them affect us, our communities, and ultimately the state of our world. Our emotions will not simply go away. I wouldn't even want them to, becase the richer ones are a lot of what makes life worth living. But we need to be aware when they become destructive forces, especially fear, because fear, particullarly, can be turned towards destructive ends.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

Fear is what got your ancestors through danger.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

The terms of life on earth have since changed. We are now the dominant species. Fear still has it's place in the protection of the individual, but when opperating in mass it tends to suspend reason, a very dangerous equasion.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

How can the terms of life change?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

They can change because now humans, rather then our protracted battle with the adversarial conditions of nature, are the force that shapes the world. The conditions of life have changed, we have not, as of yet. That is why we need a spiritual awakening.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 10 years ago

I recommended Eckhard Tolle's works to Gypsy because A New Earth and The Power of Now are both about acknowledging and, more importantly, understanding your emotional responses, but not letting them rule your behavior. He tells of the "duck with the human mind": when a duck encroaches on another's territory, they flap their wings, squawk their heads off, and then calmly go their separate ways. If the duck had a human mind, however, his thoughts would be, "Did you see what that guy did? He deliberately invaded my space. I see him over there plotting to do it again. I'll fix him!" etc. We need to learn to flap our wings, vent our anger, and let it go.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 10 years ago

Haha hardly. the reason a duck flies away is because its instincts tell it to get its ass out of the situation as fast as its wings will carry it. Not because they let live and forget.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 10 years ago

That's not what the duck does; the "attacker" serenely floats off to another part of the pond, according to the tale. Turning it around, you could say a driver is cut off on the freeway, almost clipping his car. The driver gets really angry at the other driver, flips him off, yells at him, calls him an idiot. He can then do one of two things: let it go, since the other driver is, after all, long gone; or continue to be angry and drive recklessly to try and catch him/her and cut them off. Too many of us do the latter, it seems.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Yes, and once again the metaphor is taken from nature; from the lessons of "survival of the fittest." It is this kind of thinking - completely understandable given our long struggle for survival against the elements - that has been rendered invalid by the rapid changes of the last century. Our entire collective understanding of how to survive in the world, in other words, has been rendered obsolete.

Mankind is now the undisputed dominant force on this planet, and what hopefully sets us apart from the other species is our ability to grow beyond the mere lessons of survival of the fittest, and reach towards something higher.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 10 years ago

I highly recommend reading Eckhard Tolle's works, especially A New Earth and The Power of Now.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Thanks, I've heard of him, but never read his work. I'll get a copy.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 10 years ago

Based on your post, you will really like what he has to say and be given hope by it!

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Comments are being deleted, and appear to be being blocked on this post.

[-] 1 points by MaryS (529) 10 years ago

Just curious, what are the nature of the comments being deleted?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

One very long comment was from a guy investigating corrupt connections between criminal justice systems and other elements of society. Several others made less impression on me, and so I don't remember the thrust of them. None had any obscentity, or any other valid reason I can see for their "disappearence."

[-] 1 points by MaryS (529) 10 years ago

Haha. Obscenity is the least of my worries on here. :).

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (8708) 10 years ago

Mine too. There's a lot worse going on here than that!

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