Forum Post: To all the people who are against this movement.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 2:11 p.m. EST by JPHOENIX
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This message is for all those who say "Get a job you lazy bums!" and other similar catchphrases. For all the people who are against OWS and act as if they are happy with the system the way it is.
I have a question for you:
If you are happy with the current system the way it is, are doing what you love every day and making a comfortable salary...
THEN WHY DO YOU SOUND SO ANGRY?
If you are truly happy with your life, why are you cursing at protesters who are exercising their freedom to assemble and their freedom to express their opinions? Why are you even on this website arguing with people? If you are living the American Dream, go out and enjoy the fruits of your labor! Be happy and spread your happiness with others.
If you are against the protesters, yet are on this site and cursing at people, what that really means is that you are not being honest with yourself. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you are not happy with your job, or your life. You are overworked, underpaid, and still haven't gotten to where you want to be in life. You have spent years upon years as a blind, obedient slave to the 1%. And are barely making enough to scrape by, while they get rich off of your hard work.
You are in denial that you have been suckered into this life by the mass media and the powers that be. And you are too afraid to stand up against the most powerful government in the world to instill a system that serves the greater good. So instead, you lash out at the wrong people. You don't want anyone to be free or to be happy, because you want to drag them down. You want everyone to be as miserable as you are. You don't want to see the game reset to zero, because that will require you to admit that your beliefs are based on an illusion, and lose the false feeling of superiority you get from having vain materialistic things (like watches) that serve no utilitarian purpose whatsoever. The media has told you for your entire life that having these petty things is what success consists of. And now, you are slowly starting to realize how insane it actually is that it took so long for millions of people in our society to wake up and see how brainwashed we all are.
So please, if you are angry, be honest with yourself. I know you probably won't admit it on this forum, but at least stop lying to yourself. Think about what I've said with your own mind. And think about the root of why you are so mad. I can guarantee you it's because you also have a greater vision for your life, and for this world, and are frustrated that it does not exist. Perhaps you feel so enslaved that you don't think it's possible to change anything. Well I have news for you - the OWS protesters are now in 150+ cities around the U.S. and over 800+ cities worldwide. So if you don't believe it's possible to change anything, the very least you can do is to get out of the way of those who are risking being beaten, pepper sprayed, arrested, and killed to stand up for what is right.
If you are angry, direct your anger at the people responsible. At the ones who are unwilling to alter this current system. Not at the people who are fighting to make your life better every single day. We are the 99%.
I agree with you, and I suspect that it's about more than being afraid to stand up against the powers that be.
Let's say you're 45 years old and you have worked and toiled your whole life to make ends meet as an administrative assistant, or working in the shipping department in a warehouse. You've always paid your bills and your taxes, and contributed to your 401K, and deferred to your bosses because you've been taught this is the way you get ahead and the right thing to do. Because you don't really enjoy this but you see no other options, you have become bitter over time. When you reflect on your life, you realize that you didn't get to have much fun. Sadly, you really don't have much to show for this lack of fun in terms of material possessions. You have a nice pickup truck, a small house in a mediocre suburban neighborhood, and that's about it. You're seriously overweight, and often you don't feel so well, but you don't really know why. You attribute it to age and figure you've just got to suck it up and plow on through. You keep working and paying your bills though, and in another 20 years your mortgage will be paid off.
Now, along come some 22 year olds... and they're saying that they've been treated unfairly and they want to change the system! I mean, the nerve! They haven't even begun to pay their dues... and they're going to change the system out from underneath you? You have all this effort put in - sunk costs - that you didn't even want to make, but you're starting to make some headway, and now they're going to change the rules because some goddamn kids are complaining that things are bad for them? While everyone around you was partying and living it up and buying houses they couldn't afford, you were fiscally conservative and lived within your means and got up for work every morning, even though you didn't always like it. You have always been a good person.
And now these hippie assholes are saying it's an unfair system for them. Pfft. Time for them to shut up and get a job.
Do you see?
Question: Who fucked up the economy? a) "some goddam kids" or b) old fucks who had their chance and completely blew it?
Hint: It ain't option a)
The nerve? What, to want a more democratic society? The nerve to want corporate money out of their political system? The nerve of exercising their right to free speech? I'm assuming you didn't say the same to the Tea Party patriotic "Impeach the President who's Hitler" folks, didja?
It's not about what was "done to them" per se, it's what's being done to them--and the rest of the people who aren't in the 1%, including you. It's not just that it's unfair to them, it's unfair to you. It was unfair for Bush and his cronies to deficit spend $3 trillion on Iraq. Where was your anger then? No one said boo. It was unfair to bail out greedy bankers who gambled on increasingly worthless securities--which was, btw, the free market at work.
If you're not willing to stand up and fight against an increasingly undemocratic machine that puts monied interests ahead of the interests of the majority of the people, then if you can't thank them, you should keep quiet and go back to the funny dog videos on youtube. Many people have jobs that they're taking time off from, or have quit outright to fix a system that people in my age bracket--and probably yours--fucked up beyond all recognition.
You think these "kids" are lazy? They are not lazy. They are going out on a limb to try to bring about positive change--and they're doing it with grace, which is a lot more than I can say for their wild-eyed, anti-free speech detractors, like you.
The nerve?
I'll say. But yours, not theirs...
I'm on your side, yet you're even alienating me. That's not a good sign.
I am trying to show what that 45 year old person who is angry feels like - to encourage you to empathize. Your response is to get angry with me and not pay attention to that message.
Empathy is what will give you the ability to bring into the movement that 45 year old who really has worked hard his or her whole life and is now upset to see that they may have been wrong. Your getting angry and insulting him or her and rubbing it in will only polarize and cause them to dig in and hate you.
Do you understand?
You're not on my side: you're on the side of attacking those you don't understand--those who are actually on your side. The facts are there: we, your generation, my generation, we have had our chance. We blew it. A different perspective with a little more humility is what's needed--and they're showing the guts and the grace to try. Are they perfect? Absolutely they are not perfect, but they're scary, because they mean business. That's a good thing.
It's fine that you have a story to share--you should do so without being angry and aggressive to the next generation who will inherit our generations fuck ups. That's the god's honest truth, if you want to be empathetic, then brother, by all means do so, but do so with humility and grace. These kids haven't said that anyone is Hitler. They haven't said that guns are the answer. They're doing this in a spirit of peace. That means a lot, and frankly, it's a lot more respectful than the haters have given them credit for.
My wife grew up in a house of 8 kids, drank powered milk, and was made fun of by wealthier kids. I was luckier, and grew up middle class. We both see the importance of what #OWS is doing. Why? Because they're not against us, or "making it" in this country. They're actually interested in people succeeding, just not those who have undue influence on the political process because they're insanely wealthy. That's not unreasonable.
And if I hurt you, well, I apologize, it doesn't feel too good to be made fun of, does it? So, yes, I have empathy with your situation--and frankly, a lot of these "kids" will too if you just treat them with the respect they deserve.
And by god, they deserve respect, because no one else is standing up and saying what needs to be said--or fighting for your and my rights. It sure as shit isn't the far right arm of the republican party and those clowns in Congress...
I'll try again.
The 45 year old person is not real. It is not me. I am not 45, I am not an admin or a shipping dept person, I am not personally angry at the movement.
I am attempting to show what the perspective of someone like that might be, and encourage all of us to find a way to empathize with that person in spite of their anger. My feelings have not been hurt at all, although I am starting to get a little sad at this exchange.
You and I are on the same side. And, really succeeding as the 99% (or even 85%, or some other significant majority) will take the ability to listen to someone like that 45 year old who I channeled who is angry, without attacking them and alienating them. Yes, there are some people who you won't be able to sway, but there are others who you will, if you can listen. But you can't convince people to see things your way by shouting them down, even if that's what they're doing. Have you ever been convinced by someone who is shouting you down?
To put it differently: Imagine that you are that person that I described, and that you really felt that way. That you really believe that you are a good person, that you have lived your life in an honest way, and that you are in the right. Really put yourself in his/her shoes. What might start to change your mind?
Okay, sorry, my mistake. I missed the original first sentence. I'm afraid I punk'd myself--good points all. I am, I think, pretty good at coming up with alternative arguments. I think I do need to be more even-handed, and not get sucked in to the anger game.
Apologies for my stupidity....
Sure, apology accepted... and, it certainly wasn't my intention to punk anyone, nor do I see you as having been punked. Maybe you're good at making decisions quickly? It's a much-needed skill in many situations, but sometimes it's not appropriate. You would know better than I though.
BTW, you make some excellent points about the people involved in this movement and why it can succeed and it's exciting to see your passion. Cheers.
Yeah, thanks; perhaps a little too quick on the draw, I guess. But this is an evolving learning process. Never really did this before, but have a lot of years of policy discussion experience. Time to put it to work!
I'd still like to see the GA put together a Philosophical Differences and Similarities subcommittee or something to address this stuff face on. Anyway, keep up the fight...
Peace.
Ha, I am copying this into notepad for later use, I hope you don't mind.
Copy away!
Excellent points! I completely agree. Misery loves company.
The funny thing is, I've been re-posting this on every article I've found where people are bashing the protestors. And so far, not one person has been able to argue with it. So I encourage others to do the same and repost this in order to help those angry folks understand their misguided anger and start doing what's right.
You forgot to mention Low T.
This antagonist is a troll, ignore him.
No, I'm not, and I'm not antagonizing anyone. I'm asking all of us to understand why someone might not agree with us, and think about how we might relate to them if they really should be part of this movement. Please re-read what I posted.
hippies went away in the sixties
very nice
Bravo!
The claim by advocates of the status quo that anyone can make it in this system is just not true.
97% cannot make an above average income. 50% cannot make more than $33k. 25% of an entire race of people this system used to enslave cannot even make it out of poverty.
That is not because everyone in society is a loser.
This system is designed to only work for a very, very small percentage of the hard-working, responsible, effective workers.
And this system is designed to work 100% of the time for all the people born into one of the families of those elite few, regardless of how hard-working, responsible or effective they are.
This system is an incredibly unfair system. It simply does not work.
It doesn't work for me. It doesn't work for you. It doesn't work for 97% of all workers.
The trolls who say it does work are in complete denial because it doesn't work for them either.
But I would also add that anyone who claims capitalism can be made to work well and fairly for everyone are in denial too.
This antagonist is a troll – ignore him. The Troll Police
amen
A lot of people on this site like to think they are part of the 1%.
pretty accurate assessment
This is still too early for demands. Just between us the demand is Powell's "you broke it you fix it." but we don't have to say it out loud. It isn't yet time for making demands.
They (the1%) are figuring it out. They know what is wrong, they caused it, and paid for it (to politicians), and they know how to fix it (Global undo). We just sit tight while they offer (and they will) to fix a few pieces that don't matter much to them. When we don't accept that, they offer a little more and yadda, yadda, yadda, until we get what the 99% really needs.
This is simple, but not simpler than it must be. This will not be won with shouting and threats, and demands. It is won by the rest of the 99% being proud to join us, and join us anyway they can. We want your Mom to join us, so clean up after yourself, act like an adult, treat others with respect.
When she comes and grandma comes, we have won, because the guys who get on here and swear at us will be here too with their wives, and kids and their Mom's. Because they are in the 99% too.
Well stated. And you make a great point: these people really aren't happy, they're angry. They get enjoyment out of attacking people who are exercising their first amendment rights, and have every right to be pissed. Actually, if you're not pissed off at the state of the country--and blame it on the last 3 years alone, you haven't been paying attention.
In fact, money doesn't equal happiness--that's been proven over and over. But I believe this really is more about "ideological sports" and "being right" than seeking the common good.
But I disagree with your premise: I don't think they are angry at the system, I think they're angry at anyone who isn't like them. It's almost tribal, really: they fear difference and want to make anyone who disagrees with them just like them. They fear differing opinions (look at what the Tea Party threatened to do to John Boehner for considering being a statesman: http://groobiecat.blogspot.com/2011/07/scorpion-and-frog-cautionary-political.html. Not all, of course, but the majority, in my experience. There aren't too many on the right on this board seeking compromise, but I applaud those that do. To the rest, well, they're the ones you'll never be able to converse with anyway, but it's worth it to keep trying to get through.
With social media today we all can be connected as one voice, one strong and one American. Look at Netflix. The people are telling them how they screwed up and screwed up more and now they are so desperately trying to get back those who finally said enough it enough.
Keep at it.
Well said. I wholeheartedly agree. The OP outlines the psychology behind the verbal attacks perfectly.
You have some very clear and beautiful arguments here my friend. An Ego does not like to look at itself too much in the mirror. It hurts to look at that image. But we need to take a very hard and close look at what hurts. We need to risk feeling unsafe for a long time. A lifestyle dictated by the Media and the comforts provided by the multinational companies have made us "numb" for too long. It´s time to get out there and FEEL. Feel the world and the humans around You. Hear what they have to say, even the hateful ones (but don´t waste too much time with those). Be a contributer to an open forum. This creates open minds. Be brave and be strong. There´s light ahead
Beautifully said! Thanks and good luck wherever you are.
Thanks Markmad. I´m from Copenhagen, Denmark. We start occupying City hall this Saturday. Good luck to you as well
Agreed! Repost this everywhere you see a hate-filled post. They need to understand what's at the root of their anger.
It takes two to screw us! Politicians to hold us down, so then the Corporations can do the screwing!!! Politicians need better rules to follow to prevent lobbying! We tax payers should also fund important elections, so the best person wins and not the one with the most money!!! The movement needs at least these 2 demands!!! Politicians need to be fair and keep it balanced for all and not start class warfare! They all need fired so we can start over but next time they work for everyone and not favor one group over another. Write it down and pass the word!!!
This is what I want first then I want the Politicians to fix it! Plane and simple!
I will repost this everywhere. It's so true.
A lot of those people you speak of are brainwashed by the lies the irresponsible media has put out against us. They think that we are out to hijack the system and that we will ultimately make the economy tank. They look at us as a threat. I'm on news comment boards every day and hear the ranting and raving of people that think we are commies and marxists. I got called a Marxist on a number of occasions when all I said is that I was all for an end to Crony-capitalism and that we get back to true capitalism. It's funny how these critics can turn a blind eye to all the out of control greed going with the big banks and call that capitalism at work. I mean really, they are drinking some pretty powerful cool-aid there!!! How blind are they!!! If they are not a part of the !%, they will suffer along with the rest of us if this country keeps going in the direction it does. But now, there is hope. The winds of change are blowing...
Former Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson spoke to the Orlando Occupiers today. Did you know that Alan Grayson was ranked as the 11th-wealthiest member of Congress in 2010, based on financial disclosure forms with a minimum net worth of $31.41 million. I thought you wanted the money out of the political sytem? How can you do that if you are embracing the rich? I don't get you people?
A week ago I discovered what the term Arab Spring meant (do you know), and that Occupy Florida/Occupy Orlando/Occupy UCF have sympathy for the cyber terrorist group Anonymous. Here are links to the group’s own propaganda:
http://www.whatis-theplan.org/t18310-attention-occupy-florida-occupy-orlando-the-time-is-now#207430 http://www.whatis-theplan.org/t1-what-is-the-plan#1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_9T1SPJXRI This is a link to reference material written by others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_(group)
I have been branded as a “Go Away” because I discovered the truth about how dangerous they really are. No matter how many times I post the truth on face book they keep deleting my posts and keep theirs up making for some interesting one-sided reading. In June of 2011, Anonymous went on a rampage here in Orlando because Food not Bombs were not permitted, to feed (food they pick from dumpsters and call it repurposing or something like that), to the homeless in the Children’s Playground at Lake Eola without a permit. They threatened local government with violence and with the destruction of municipal and private property if they ignored their orders. The City of Orlando and our Law Enforcement did not yield to their terrorist threats. Therefore, Anonymous, in the name of Food not Bombs, illegally broke into the Orlando City Hall’s mainframe, the Police Department’s mainframe and several other computer mainframes. Once there they proceeded to “crash” and thus destroy these computer systems and the data within. When they finished with their terrorist tactics, they had put the citizens of Orlando in danger and cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars to repair this damage. They then bragged about their crimes! May I continue? Were you aware that the founders of the so-called movement are a couple of Canadians, named Kalle Lasn and Bill Schmalz who own a media company/magazine called Adbusters? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adbuster In 2004, Adbusters ran an article that that alleged many supporters of the Iraq War within the Bush Administration were Jewish and questioning the political ramifications of this Jewish influence. An immediate cry of anti-Semitism went up from the Jewish community. In 2010, they were, comparing the Gaza Strip to the Warsaw Ghetto. (I do not recall any reports of Israel gassing millions of Palestinians to death.) Finally, this so-called movement has called for the boycott of large financial institutions around the country. http://www.cnbc.com/id/44800021/Occupy_Wall_Street_Backs_a_Nationwide_Boycott_Against_Banks Meanwhile the Occupiers are creating their own large financial institution called WEPAY. WEPAY charges .50 cents or 3.5% of each transaction depending on what it is. WEPAY has several investors and is in partnership with Bancorp Bank trading on the NASDAQ as, TBBK and WEPAY is FDIC insured which qualifies them to be bailed out if necessary. What is strange is that the Occupiers, through their propaganda would have the public believe this is a two-man operation run by, Rick Aberman & Bill Clerico. These gentlemen have been quoted as saying the following: "OUR GOAL IS TO KEEP GROWING AS FAST AS POSSIBLE AND BUILD A BIG COMPANY," said Aberman.
"OUR GOAL IS TO TAKE DOWN PAYPAL," said Clerico. "IF THEY HAVE A HUNDRED MILLION CUSTOMERS, WE WANT TO HAVE A HUNDRED MILLION AND ONE. WE HAVE A BEACHHEAD. IT"S CLASSIC LAND-AND-EXPAND.."
http://www.businessnewsdaily.com/online-payment-platform-challenges-paypal-1553/
To quote Anonymous, 'While we are weak as individuals, as a whole we are a force to be reckoned with. " Where I come from (the Bronx), that's called "Mob Mentality". If I remember my history correctly, Kristallnacht was a very successful use of the mob mentality tactic. Another example of mob mentality is the Rosewood Massacre. Then there was September 11, 2001 when 2,966 innocent people going about their lives were murdered by a mob of 19 cowards. Did I mention that 3,051 children lost parents that day? Guess there will be no stroller brigade for them like the one they are having here in Orlando, FL. Let us not forget about the Oklahoma City bombing where they placed that truck right under the day care for maximum terror. On that day one-hundred and sixty eight people were murdered, nineteen of them children. The “give me” generation aka the Occupiers are just another gang sitting around, demanding things for free that the rest of us are willing to pay for. In the words of Thomas Jefferson, ‘The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.’ That is why I will always resist and make a stand against those people. I am an American, I love my country, and I love the people in it. Never again!
I am against you, but I will not curse you.
I guess, because I am against you, that makes me the 1%. Never mind that my family of four earns about the poverty level (maybe $25,000 a year). Because I am against you, because my family runs or owns two small businesses, then that makes me an evil oppressor. So be it.
I am not angry with you. If you want to come march on my house or throw rocks at me, that is fine. To my dying breath, I will never change my mind about how I feel that I have the right to work at the job I want and not be forced to work for someone else.
I hope that things turn out the best for you. I hope that things don't go downhill and the rest of the 99% (which doesn't include me, as I said earlier) doesn't panic and demand that someone does something. That may end in slavery for many. Not me, I will let them murder me before or after I get to the reeducation camps.
So, not everybody from the 1% wants to curse you. :-) Some just don't want to see this degrade into anarchy and then dictatorship.
You are so right JPhoenix. They're very grumpy. I think a lot of them have been trained in a way by years of listening to talk radio. To be incapable of acknowledging and recognizing that other people have needs as valid as your own, is classified as a pathology by behavioral psychologists. Somehow this has become a mass phenomenon.
In general, I'm very content with my life, job, pay check, etc. It's the high pitch droning whine coming from those not willing to hold a steady 40, plus go to school, plus start a business that can get awfully irritating.
Actually, I'm usually pretty happy with my life, pay check, job, and soon personal business. The high pitch constant whine of "I can't make it in the world, you owe me" is what drives me up the wall personally.
In response to Jphoenix's original post......
Yes I do love my job Yes I do love what i'm doing every day. Yes I make a comfortable salary doing it.
And you know what??
Yes i'm under the age of 30 Yes I own my own house Yes I have a very good credit score. Yes I have NO debt....
I also have NO college education and graduated high school with a 1.6 G.P.A.
Why am I here on this board "arguing" with people??? Because I'm appalled by this. By this generation, my contemporaries, acting like petulant children and wanting other people to pay for their mistakes.
I see it every day. People my age, living in houses they can't afford, driving cars they can't afford, and trying to pay off 6 figure student loans for their liberal arts degrees. And they want to blame the government for offering them the student loan. The mortgage lender for offering them the the subprime mortgage that they couldnt afford. The car dealer for leasing them the car they can't afford.
Just cause someone offers you the drugs, doesn't mean you have to buy them. And if you do by them??? It's your own damn fault and up to you to get your shit together.
I'm the average 20 something in every way you can think of. I was born middle class and I've worked hard and busted my ass to get where I am today. So why can't you??
Very true, they are in denial, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
I am amased at how Occupy works. Would like to have your input on the movement to understand it better by answering 10 questions. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB Please, take some time for it and I am happy to share the results. Thank you!
Mariannka - I tried to take your survey but it has problems with the multiple answer questions. Check it out again.
Thanks you, I did, it should be OK now. I apreciate your input. M.
I am amased at how Occupy works. Would like to have your input on the movement to understand it better by answering 10 questions: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB Please, take some time for it. Thank you!
Isn't it possible that people can be angry about the state of American society and completely disagree with everything the OWS movement stands for?
The OWS movement stands for exactly that. Changing American society to better serve the greater good. If you want to change the system, and you are on this site, then that makes you a part of this movement.
Answer: You have what psychologist call "tunnel vision". It would cause such emotional pain for you to accept that others are very happy enjoying their productive lives and the fruits of their labor, while you are not, that you deem it impossible. I've read many of the anti-OWS posts and don't see them as angry at all. In reality it is many of OWS posts that become angry when they have to come face-to-face with logical arguments from happy, successful, and economically productive people. Most OWS people would prefer to think financially successful people are miseable.
IQ143:
If you are happy, successful, and economically productive, then teach a course on how others can do the same in modern society. Obviously our education system is not doing a good enough job of that. I'm sure many people would be delighted to learn how we all can do it. If the majority of the 1% were willing to do such things and share their knowledge and connections to uplift others, believe me, there would not be people protesting in the streets in 150+ cities around the US.
The fact that you are on this site means you either want to help or want to attack. So if you are truly happy and well off as you say, sign me up for your class.
I applaud your positive, pro-active approach. Economic success isn't all that complicated. Just a few basic principles. Here are a few:
Cont.
Once you get some experience and become even a little known in an industry association or group, your networking opportunities will sky-rocket. Employers will actually CALL YOU looking to hire you. Aim to become an expert in your field.
Your characterization of the people who disagree with you is actually wrong. I was not motivated by personal misery to voice my concern with your views. I am concerned by the message you are sending the rest of the world and I couldn't sit idly by without including my own thoughts.
Americans are better than this. I know most of you are acting peacefully, but the opposite is what is being flaunted even on your own site. If you really believe there is a better alternative to capitalism...then what is it? If you analyze the existing systems, they range across the spectrum from less regulation (there is no true capitalistic society) to full regulation by the government. So which do you choose? If you know of a better way...then what is it? I am not against the fact that you seek change...I am against the fact that you have no clear message and don't offer any solid solutions. I am disappointed by the lack of understanding of the true problem. To be effective, you need to hear the views of those who agree AND disagree...this is the only way you will fully understand how to fix things.
Let me make something clear: I do not want you to be silenced. However, I want to feel welcome to also have a voice when I disagree with your message.
Life is not fair and never will be. You all should be thankful for the lot you have been given in life, for billions of people have it far worse than you do.
True. But is still no justification for tolerating the slave state we have become.
You don't know the definition of a slave state, and it is insulting how you through that term around so carelessly. Go spend a year in North Korea or Burma or Somalia and you will be begging for the first ticket back to the States
theman I disagree with you. That's like telling a young girl whose father beats her that she should not speak up because there are other fathers who rape and murder their children. It is definitely worse in other places. But that does not justify the out of hand corruption that is occurring right in front of your eyes, right here in America. Who are you to say when the abuse is enough to revolt? Because 150+ cities are currently full of citizens roaming the streets who have already taken the liberty to decide that on their own. And there's nothing you can do about it but antagonize on a message board. I'm not too sure why you are even here, exactly.
What good is a message board if it is just a bunch of guys agreeing with each other and patting each other on the back. I know exactly what is going on in the government and the corruption in the system. But I understand that human nature is full of corruption, therefore wars, greed, bribery, stealing and other things are to be expected. These things will always exist, and no amount of money or time or blood will change that.
This is not a message board to pat each other on the back. This is a board for people who are working to coordinate and create a better world for all of us.
Yes, some corruption will always exist, that is true. It is cyclical. Each government is formed with the best of intentions, and slowly deteriorates over time. Eventually, it needs to be amended, and after a very long time, it may be unfixable and need to be started from scratch. It's the story of history.
We just happen to be alive at a time where things are so corrupt that revolution is in the air. You can dig your head in the sand, be scared, and pretend it isn't happening, or you can face reality and stand up for what is right. Which one you choose is up to you.
I'm gonna go back to eating my soup now...
You should hope we don't dip into another recession. Realize you are just another round of layoffs away from potentially being homeless, unemployed, and uninsured just like thousands of others. Then maybe you will understand.
The point is rich people won't listen to you because they don't have to. And if they won't listen to you, what are you even doing?
Rich people don't have to listen. And they won't yet because they aren't afraid yet. If they don't start listening, that will change. Take a history class if you don't understand how this will occur.
TROLL!
Pretty sure 99% of Americans aren't poor or jobless.
Why I am here. I, and they-the 'haters':: They are here to provide truth and understanding. They are here to motivate you, to make you find ambition to achieve. They hate seeing individuals grovel due to perceived inhibitors... they hate watching young men and women wake up to the Real World, pissed, and without understanding of how you cannot earn something for nothing. I truly care for each and everyone of you... I do not come here to offer you pity, I come here to offer you enlightenment. I will not give you money, I will give you proven ideology... which the value is far higher than if I were to cut you a check. I am here, not to make you mad-though many will be... the time I invest, will pay off. I trust that some of you will glean, even if it is only a small piece, some knowledge that will contribute to your success. You can grab this World by the horns.. don't sit as the World passes you by. You have one life. Live it. -matt
Matt - What is your occupation?
I have been given the great honor to serve you and this great country. I support and defend the US Constitution.
You speak as if you are well off financially. If you don't mind me asking, how did you accumulate your assets? The reason why I ask is because you make it sound so easy for anyone to do. And if that is the case, I believe many could benefit from you teaching them how to do it as well. Like some sort of entrepreneur mentorship program. I would definitely be interested in that if it were available. I just haven't found anyone willing to teach me the ropes. And trust me - it's not for a lack of trying to seek them out. If enough well-off people did this type of thing, perhaps the protests would disappear.
You say you come to offer enlightenment. Enlighten us.
I have to take care of some things and need to get off of the site for now, but if you are truly being serious... I will explain in full detail some of the things I have done. I completely agree, no one wants to hear claims without proof of results. private message me on here to remind to get back to you. -matt
You really don't get it. There are MANY out here that cannot "grab this World by the horns" due to a complete lack of opportunity. But whatever man. Thanks for the "proven ideology" (99% need not apply)
The travesty lies in the fact that you willingly constrain your abilities and bridle your ambitions... merely due the perception that opportunity is inhibited in our Great Country. The only limiting factor an individual has to face are the bounds of your endowed intellect and intrinsic motivation. Societal constraints on opportunity are completely absurd... if you fall prey to that, you are damning yourself, before attempting. That is absurd, and everyone here and in the World is better than that.
I cannot roll my eyes hard enough at this post. Spoken like a lucky guy who really hasn't had to deal with the very real "Barriers to Entry" (try that there google machine to learn more about that) put in place by those that control the government to increase their wealth. But hey it's ok man, clearly we're all just making shit up.
You willingly accept constraints. I do not. Luck does not exist. Welcome to the Real World. I am part of the 99%
Luck does not exist?! So you were born in Somalia to a 14 year old girl with AIDS and died 2 months after being born? Tell me about the constraints that kid accepted? Fucking little shit shoulda just bootstrapped his way outta it. Lazy.
I guess you're right. Grovel in your self-pity... life is so unfair. The dice didn't roll your way this time around. Maybe next life.
I'm sorry did you say I was grovelling? First, you are the one grovelling to your corporate masters, I'm not. I'm fighting. I think what you were looking for, mattthecapitalist, is wallowing. And I ain't doing that either. Just holding up the mirror of reality. Anyway, your silly bullshit theories are now dust. Have a good day. Too bad, you could have joined us and made a difference in this world. Still can in fact! It's ok though, you will tell your grandkids you always were with us.
look up 'grovel' again and you will see that it fits well in the context of my last statement. You aren't holding up the mirror of reality... but rather, the mirror of perception-you perceive that you have no chance, and willingly accept that. You can choose to ignore my logic, the 'bullshit theories' but they will be here long after you turn to dust. -I would not have a family, and thus, no grand kids, if I knew I would be subjecting them to a World of hopelessness and self-pity-what you propose- only a fool would damn their offspring to that.
Amateur hour physcobabble
Bongo - Thank you for your comments. In time you will understand.
Jhoenix,
Excellent post!
" Why are you even on this website arguing with people?"
http://xkcd.com/386/