Forum Post: Time To Get Serious OWS!
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 31, 2011, 2:27 p.m. EST by percness
(9)
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Yeap. You're reading correctly. Is time "the movement" earns political power. Simplify your voice and message for the masses, for those who choose not to understand. Organize and centralize your thoughts and ideas so that collectively, in a cohesive manner, your voices earn the respect it deserves as a political movement. Otherwise, and the movement is close to getting there, OWS will lose all the credibility earned so far. If things don't move towards earning political power - all progress will be lost.
Vacate Zuccotti Park voluntarily and schedule organized assemblies, doing this will only earn you more goodwill from the masses in spite of not getting positive press... I think the movement is at the cusp of becoming something that shapes The United States or one that becomes word of ridicule.
Politically speaking, if OWS is serious about getting things done and not just being a counter-culture movement as it has become, the movement needs to elevate and simplify its message from one of multiple rebellions to one that is seriously worthy of political discourse. You may not want to understand the reasons why vacating Zuccotti Park after two months would be great for the movement, but if it continues in this manner, it will lose its effectiveness and be virtually pointless. Foreclosures, joblessness, and inequality will continue... Just because you protest doesn't mean it gets done - the movement need political power and allies with political power to do so and the longer the movement occupies the more political relevance it loses.
You mean to say that OWS needs to be bought off by someone or something with lots of cash kinda like the Tea Party...No they need to continue to occupy and be a pain in the ass for as long as possible. Lot's of people outside of the park that are with OWS...
I think the movement is still forming, but there is a massive exchange of ideas and contacts thanks to the movement.
Rock on!
Do you know Adbusters gets money from the Tidelands Foundation?
And Tidelands gets the money from SOROS????????????????
Haven't you noticed a significant decrease in OWS coverage since Oakland? Just like a hemorrhoid, you cool the pain, that's how you treat a pain in the ass... you cool OWS by not covering it.
Snow in October beats OWS!!! Fox and MSNBC are discovering the lack of organization and the amount of derelicts mixed in.
The process to irrelevance has begun - a wasted opportunity.
You're funny...If OWS fails they'll be something else to replace it and it will just get bigger...
This experiment in Direct Democracy by anarchists has been effective in attracting alot of attention. This movement has managed take advantage of every social/political/economic frustration to gain attention.
However, Direct Democracy in a park will not translate to the government of a country that is the greatest country on earth and leader of the free world.
Our Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us a Representative Republic. No way is a group of anarchists going to improve on what our Founding Fathers gave to us.
I suppose the 98.99% should give proper credit to the anarchists for launching this experiment. It has helped us to discuss and speak out about many legitimate frustrations and problems in our country.
However, no OWS GA will ever take up the legitimate demands of the majority (ie: campaign finance reform, financial reform, corporate personhood) with the purpose of affecting change through government. Because this is not their goal. Their goal is to use the majorities legitimate frustration to gain support for one thing: Direct Democracy.
I believe that 99.99% of people will reject Direct Democracy beyond the park. It is up to the 98.99% to move our legitimate issues with government out of the park. To work with government and through government to enact the positive changes that we want for our country.
Agreed. How about this idea to increase representation.: Right now there is only one US Rep. per 720,000 people. It's no wonder they don't listen to the people anymore. There is nothing in the Constitution that says it has to be that high. If we reduce that number, the Reps will be closer to the people and their increased number will be much harder for the lobbyists to corrupt.
Like! I have become more active in this group. This group believes in working with and through government. So far, looks promising that it will be Anarchist free.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
https://www.facebook.com/www.the99declaration.org
This is one of the most rational posts that I've ever read on this site. It's too bad that most of the movement rejects the last paragraph.
I think a powerful aspect of the movement rejects it. I think the majority wants change through government action. So many people have been calling for the GA to take up the demands, take it to Washington, take it to Congress. Thats what we need to do. People need to understand what the GA is all about. And move beyond the park. The alternative is to listen to the GA echo about "more blankets, blah, blah, blah".
I agree completely. Your position on participating in the democratic system that we already have seems to have changed a bit since you and I discussed it in the comments to my post about voting:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-or-else-this-will-all-be-a-pointless-exercise/
You are correct! I have learned alot in talking to people! Thanks for noticing! I still think it is a priority to get the money out of the political system. But I have come to understand better the difference between democracy and representation, AND not to interchange the two! Democracy - ok for the park, not ok for our government! And I have come to understand better the intentions of the OWS GA. So now I think it is important to point out those intentions. So hopefully we can move beyond that, and get moving on the legitimate issues of the majority that need to be addressed by our government.
bravo - "process" and "occupy" must not be our religion!
we are our goals - not our means
You don't have a representative republic either...Not since the Banking/Corporate elites took it over.
Then we should fix that - campaign finance reform and stricter banking and anti-trust regulation. Not up-end our Representative Republic.
why would you want to give your vote to a proxy,. an "elected" representative,. who gets 4 years to ram through what ever they like?
Democracy is the way forward.
It's already upended...As long as there is money in politics..Switzerland does Direct Democracy..Their country is doing fine..
Good for Switzerland. We're not Switzerland. We need to get the money out of the political system with campaign finance reform. http://fairelectionsnow.org/take-action
You'll wish we were Switzerland when all this stuff is done. Our politicians are setting this place up to look like Haiti..I signed to be a cosponsor for that bill "Pass Fair Elections". ..
You sound cynical. Tell me if I'm misinterpreting. I think campaign reform can happen. With concerted effort. Many other things can be changed too. There is alot of low hanging fruit. Things that can improve this country. Without up-ending our Representative Republic.
Sorry, I'm am a real cynical S.O.B...Our government is a Plutocracy...It is supposed to be a Representative Republic with some Democratic elements (voting)...But it's not even that. I hope we can make these changes without a revolution but that would depend on our politicians performing allot differently they have in the past...
No need to apologize. I understand. I agree, our politicians need to change. And we need to change too. By speaking out, participating more, and holding them more accountable.
Thanks...
What do you think is the best way to get results? Direct Democracy? Some kind of Anarchy system?
We have to get back to where we started , putting individual freedom and liberty and rational thought as our highest values..There is more but I'm very tired right now April..and need to eat and take care of a special little person in my life. He is most important.
I see. I've heard things about a derivitive market crash that would make the housing crash seem like a mosquito bite.
I can't help but believe in the fundamental goodness of people though. It will take a lot of work and effort. Our government must start responding to the problems and listen to people. Not just listen to the money. And all of us need to be more involved and participating. I know you have. Sadly, I have not done enough. But I have been inspired to do more now. We have helped to create the troubles in our country.
But I think most politicians are well intended. I think they have become victims of a perverse, distorted, sickened political system that is run amok with money. But this can change. And look what else, somebody sent this to me today. Signs of hope and change! Maybe you've been screaming about this for a long time too!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/citizens-united-constitutional-amendment_n_1069596.html
There are good people out there...There are some good politicians, but for the most part allot of these people get screwed by their own party if they don't vote this way or that. It may be too late to reverse what has happened to this country within the confines of this system..But there is hope to work outside these confines to get results..
Which current system do you mean is destroying itself? Sorry, I'm slow, remember?!
If we keep on current path.. Financial Crisis worse than 2008..Then possible Hegelian Dialectic event on a 9/11 scale. (I'm not certain which one would come first) Then more war against supposed enemies and serfdom for the working class and total social unrest...Just a theory of mine. I could be way of base..I see the car going off the cliff how it falls exactly is anyone's guess...
Maybe what OWS is doing will help, but I don't know, the elite don't really respond to anything but violence...All threats to the global elite are meet with violence. We may have to drop our plowshares and pick something else up..Things could turn around but it's very late in the game..very late indeed.
I'm hoping the 99% Declaration group will really do what it says. And not get taken over by Anarchists.
Don't worry April..the current system is destroying itself...it's just a matter of time..
Most of people who run the world are well documented in the DSM-IV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders
So what will crazy people do, to hold onto control..I guess we'll find out..Now with that last statement I'll have to take back my "Don't worry".
Have you seen this. What do you think?
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
I like it....may as well start on the third party now though..."The Independence Party"
Yes, some of us are a little slow! Sorry you had to scream for so long. I'm checking out your stuff. So far , I like!
Thanks! .You don't have to "like" the FB page to read it...I'm on twitter also @nickhowdy...I try to get feeds from alternative media and what I consider to be real journalism (always debatable)...Now enough about me..back to the movement!
You say you are a co-sponsor of Fair Elections Now. Tell me more!
I want the money out of politics..I also support Dylan Ratigans "Get Money Out" http://getmoneyout.com...
I've been yelling from the rooftops for a long time now...
http://nickhowdy.com
More about Nick: http://www.scribd.com/doc/50365826/What-is-Nick-Howdy
lol, nationalism and bullshit exceptionalism
As a 60's Protestor, now Senior Citizen & Florida Supporter of OWS Manhattan may I suggest the following:
A 2nd offensive must be started, now that the weather will dwindle the numbers of outside participants. All citizens of conscience and support who work for corporate America (e.g., banking, big pharma, insurance, oil, police departments, political operatives, and any other major industry who impacts the quality of our lives) should start to divulge the "dirty little secrets of their bosses/industry" anonymously (e.g., deliberate and trained lies told to the public about products; violations of the law within their industry/company; cheating of the public with specific tactics; training designed to deceive the public, etc.).
We need to expose corporate America for who they really are...ONLY then will they start to bring some modicum of fair play to their dealings with the 99% of us. Much like http://wikileaks.org - JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS WILL ONLY COME BY EXPOSING THE WRONGS. It no longer is acceptable to say "I was just doing my job." If our supporters can understand this, all of the politicians and lobbyist in the country won't be able to stop this tide.
At this point I don't think the movement has any aim other than to occupy the park and work on building a commune while relying on the goodwill and donations of others.
It's a Revolution or at least a start of one...So watch your head..
Watch my head for what?
For possible loss.
That sounds like an internet threat to me.
I'm saying that don't expect this whole thing is going to end peacefully..These things just don't...
Thank you for your concern about my well-being.
You are welcome..please be careful.