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Forum Post: This was once an optimistic place where people dreamed of changing the future.

Posted 2 years ago on Aug. 30, 2018, 9:46 a.m. EST by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Then the Green Party ego whores co-opted it and it became a "beat down the Dems" site, we can't even celebrate our victories here because those come from joining the Democratic Party and fighting the GOP. We were once a movement of unity but this forum has become a backbiting destructive force.

43 Comments

43 Comments


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[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This was once an optimistic place where people dreamed of changing the future.

Still is.

You are the one who has gone shit-house rat crazy.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I am the same as I have always been. I support taking over the Dems and killing the GOP and I hate the ego whore Greens, that's never changed with me, it is you who now can't decide if you love Trump for saving you from Hillary Clinton or maybe you wish you had been there supporting her to save us from Trump really I don't think you know what the hell you want.

but shadz and ak they are pure political hacks here to co-opt the forum for the fucking Greens

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

So https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

because - IF U are going to post like Trashy

U'll get treated just like him .. U big numpty!

temet nosce!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 1 month ago

"the squad" has won at least 3 more seats and so far they have been able to defend their turf so the battle is real and it is active, but yeah the WH is lost for a decade, I think it was Ilhan Omar that said she would rather be putting pressure on Biden than Trump to do the right thing....https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-you-need-to-know-about-todays-elections-in-minnesota-and-georgia/

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 month ago

So "The Squad" maybe possibly growing with every (s)election .. is enough for U?!!! Do U know how

'conservative' U sound, with your insistence that the option of two Corporate Con'Troll'ed Candidates

somehow equates to a True Democracy?!! At what stage d'U wake up frf?! So deal with actual policy

instead then perhaps, given that U will NEVER have the obvious answer of "A 3rd Party ASAP!" So...

IF USA doesn't have a functional, activist 'Left', then pseudo-liberal, Centerist Dems become the willing

puppets of Oligarchy because history shows Liberals will move right, unless anchored by actual leftists!

With another #S17 coming up, get this: NO OWS; NO Bernie & NO Bernie; NO Alexandra O-C! Geddit?

IF U can't extend politics outside & beyond the Corp.Controlled "Choice" of Duopoly, your facts are fukt!

Btw - U won't be "changing the future" with a proven RW Conservative like Joe Biden & tbh .. U know it!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23316) 1 month ago

Vote Alex Morse on 9/1 in MA.

Morse is getting close to beating Richie Neal in Massachusetts.

Neal is a longstanding powerful Congressman, the Chair of the Ways and Means committee. Morse would provide a refreshing progressive perspective to Congress replacing the longtime establishment candidate, Richard Neal. The polls are getting close:

https://twitter.com/AlexBMorse/status/1295454736884346884

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 weeks ago

What are Alex Morse's chances? The DNC will prefer Neal, who as Chairman of "Ways and Means" wields A LOT of power and influence but has he wielded it for The US' 99%?! Has he fk?!! Wanker!

respice et prospice!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23316) 2 weeks ago

Sadly, the establishment won again.

Alex Morse the young, progressive, gay and Jewish candidate who stands up against the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine was beat by Richie Neal tonight. No surprise there. Power, money and Israel wins again.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/alex-morse-richard-neal-israel-massachusetts-democratic-primary

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 6 days ago

yeah but they didn't win them all, the squad got bigger, I am hoping to live long enough to vote for AOC to be POTUS

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 2 weeks ago

Peace comes not from politics. Peace comes from forgiveness.

Israel is instrumental to maintaining stability and militarily imposed metastable peace in the volatile Middle East. There are a few major expansionist powers there: Iran, Turkey, and Russia. We definitely have major problems with their behaviors ( yeah, it's karma; the past hasn't even passed ! ) so we need an on-the-frontline aircraft carrier with the best weapons to stabilize the situation there.

The peace between Egypt and Israel is maintained by the largest share of U.S. foreign aid in the form of billions of dollars worth of U.S. weapons given to both countries every year since the Camp David Accord sealed by President Carter and the two Martyrs to Peace: Menachem Begin and Anwar Sadat.

The military aid given by the U.S. helps stabilize the security situation between Egypt and Israel. ( Believe it or not, it takes guns on both sides to make sure neither side uses it--mutual assured destruction mostly worked. A solution to nuclear proliferation is indeed "a plutonium bomb under every kitchen sink." ) It's really for the benefit of the whole World because the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. nearly got into WWIII there. Both superpowers were attacked.

I frankly prefer having the U.S. pay billions of dollars every year than for it to engage in a nuclear war ( not only will the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. be annihilated, much of the world's largely innocent people will be killed by the side effects; it's obvious that killing innocent people is abhorrent to God because Lot was able to bargain down to discovering a single righteous person in each of Sodom and Gomorrah to spare them from their destruction by fire and brimstone. I believe that there was a volcanic eruption there which was mythologized because I believe that "Myths carry grains of Truth.")

I was born in a de facto refugee camp in Hong Kong so I know something about living on the 99-year-leased fringe of the society of Hong Kong. The British Colonial Government naturalized many of the refugees ( likely under pressure from China,) not as British citizens but "good enough for our family's purposes."

It was very peculiar. My family risked their lives to escape from China to the 99-year-leased territories. China considered them as Chinese citizens by their heritage even after they have reached the British-governed leased part and were blocked from settling in the parts permanently ceded to the British. I think that it was because the residents in the 99-year-leased territories ( they weren't even informed beforehand by the Qing dynasty that their homeland had been leased to the British ) had put up a good fight against the British Empire to try to stay as Chinese despite the overwhelming odds in favor of the British ( yeah, a fishing village took on the British Empire so they were courageous or foolhardy alright but their valiant resistance did extract concessions from the British restricting what the British could do in the New Territories.) Another factor was probably an Oct. 10, 1956 fight between pro-Nationalists and pro-Communists and later riot that killed dozens of people in a few days. It probably seared the volatility of this Hong Kong hot potato deeply into the mind of the British Colonial Government and affected its subsequent policies. We the Honkongers turned apolitical and Hong Kong became a political neutral zone to keep peace. Fervent politics destroyed any peace and invited massive application of the police and military forces. Peace didn't come from politics. Chaos came from politics. We must always remember though without peaceful politics, tectonic pressure builds up until violence becomes inevitable. Fair and well-run elections are vital for both national progress and avoiding chaos ( in which the hitherto ruling elites, their family members, and servants/attendants are usually poisoned { supposedly a humane way but our states encountered great trouble without EU's technology; I don't see any humane quality in botched executions--it was quite a hoopla in our shantytown when a neighbor with a meat cleaver chased after a squawking bloodied chicken which flew up to the roof; Mom using a casino's morning-rooster sacrifice technique, could've done it better than that neighbor ! }, shot and/or axed { probably the messiest as I've seen as a kid some skeletal remains of such an attack }, tortured { knee-walking on broken glass }, humiliated { forced to wear written-with-guilt dunce cap, pissed upon and smeared with shit }, sodomized { Colonel got Tex-assed in his Labia }, hanged--probably the quickest and cleanest form of death by execution--Saddam Hussein got off of life in the way the Colonial British had long practiced, via an improved version of "kicking the bucket," etc. )

My family was probably in a similar situation as the residents of the Occupied Territories next to Israel. We were eventually integrated into the permanently ceded-to-the-British part. I think that Queen Elizabeth/(then Elisabeth) was a refugee who had escaped from the Nazi-Germany bombings of London in WWII and that might have helped with the benign treatment of us. I can also feel the yearning of the Jews being the refugees from worldwide in their feelings about having a homeland. I don't mind being called a nationalist because everyone is entitled to possess a nationality so that they will have an advocate for them. Palestinians are also entitled to a homeland. Maybe it could just be Israel if they didn't want what the Norway-brokered Oslo Accords could bring into reality ( it was stalled for a long while, apparently due to the Gaza / West Bank split amongst factions of the Palestinians and the longer the stall the higher the population pressure in Israel to simply annex the West Bank while letting Gaza fester as a gigantic open-air prison with increasingly untenable living conditions. When Hong Kong [British Colonial] Government offered us a chance to relocate and integrate, Mom and I took a trip to scout our new home to be. Both Mom and I liked its rather nice "Feng Shui" before we shortly moved in as "the first family" to do so and got electricity, running water, and sewage service at an affordable price as we had our "Stage-1 Separation, Completed." My Big Brother was obviously looking forward to down-source the water-fetching and chamber-pot-emptying tasks to me but as Mom told me that I was so very lucky, never having to even do them once. Yeah, I was after all the "inspector" of my Big Brother's work and I had forever resigned from going on those stinky expeditions of his after that one and only one to my Mom-purported birthplace at that Fung Tak Park's Holey Sitty on a bluff near a faucet/tap from which we bought our potable water--a young boy's nose is still to be trusted because he's not quite a man yet, still thinking of "to urinate" instead of "to ejaculate" when seeing a pubescent female's genitalia; there was obviously a difference between "the plumbing" { enough of a difference in resulting behavior that teachers stored our exercise tumbling mats in the girls' restroom to keep them clean--one shouldn't rest in a boys' or men's restroom } so it's rather curious but whence came the sudden urge to put the complementary puzzle pieces together and piss in there? The urge to merge of Life itself ! The natural drive to mate was present even in a male pre-kindergartener; it was probably a shocking request to get inside of her "to urinate," coming from her charge because she quickly ended our "dual-doctoring" session by putting our clothes back on.) Ultimately, home is where the livelihood can be attained. The feeling of being home derives from livelihood and living. For more and more digital nomads these days, "home on the range" is an IP address.

Mongols ruled the largest land empire from China to Moscow. British ruled the largest overseas empire. Since I have heritage from former at-times enemies/ancestors, I can claim owning at least half of the World, can't I? Is there something wrong with my logic? Should I start raising an army now to obtain all that is rightfully mine?

Here's a question for all Jews to ask and answer: "Why are Jews so frequently persecuted all over the world, resulting in their needing a globally accessible ancestral homeland in Israel ( which swelled with ever-growing population requiring the continuing annexation of watershed space from the Palestinians? ) In modern world with trade, cumulative watershed space present and past is bought by Saudi Arabia, Japan, China.. from Americas so only agricultural people or ones still clinging to agriculture stress the affinity to soil.

Our family took the attitude that we had to discard some old's to make way for the new's, like insects emerging from a phase of metamorphosis to the next. It wasn't the first time, nor would it be the last time ( but I really tried to do stupid and/or "retarded" things only once; I was said to be too strict in my discipline; I agree on a certain level because things change.. but they usually change very slowly due to inertia and have more chance to change for the worse than better due to the supreme law of our running down our Universe on the average; exception is allowed on a small scale after a catastrophe {e.g. WWII} which oriented conscientious efforts to do better.. but there is always overwhelming degradation such as garbage/rubbish accompanying the running up {e.g. higher GDP per capita} to make the average to be running down; Universe goes to probable state via a path with more elapsed proper time.) We had to "let go of the family heirlooms," and "let go of the old acquaintances," to "take in the new's."

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

What's a matter shadz, is it getting lonely at your Green Party ego whore rallies?

Isn't it fantastic how millions of radicals all over the nation are taking over the Democratic Party?

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

The main "matter" is DNC and Corp. Dems & their RW disconnect from "millions of radicals all over the

nation" but U are such a partisan, that U can't tell A$$ from e|_bow! Let's try again & see IF U can deal

with actual points and evidence of crookery and calumny. So look here and revert honestly - IF U can...

See if U can reply without recourse to childish slurs & name calling & I'll try to do the same. Good luck,

however posting and whining like TrashyManque', is anti-OWS, anti-The Forum & anti-USA's 99% imo

but your frustrations at never being able to co-opt this OWS ... still spills over into forum-posts like this!

spero meliora!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23316) 1 year ago

Jill Stein on CNN right now discussing ranked choice voting and the absurdity of two party voting. Americans are tired of the choice of the war party and Wall Street party, oops, same thing.

So called "spoilers" can be avoided by having ranked choice voting.

We don't have to shut down debate and shame third party candidates. The solution is ranked choice voting. The state of Maine has it now and we can all have this.

"Silencing candidates is not good for democracy." - Jill Stein. A very basic truth.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"American voters want and deserve more choices. Almost 60% of Americans are fed up with the 2-party system. The best way to have more choices without fear of "splitting the vote": support the movement for Ranked Choice Voting. Then we can have a real debate - and a real democracy."(Dr.J.S.) from:

The "First Past The Post" voting system is sub-optimal & Proportional Representation has much to offer. Many thanx for your raising this important matter, as without such ideas .. Democracy Dies In Darkness!

ergo, fiat lux ...

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

"Why don’t people ever tell billionaires who want to run for President that they need to “work their way up” or that “maybe they should start with city council first”?"..Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1090625411950805002

Maybe somebody should tell Jill Stein too, or would that be too much like work?

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Do you consider Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez to be a member of the "war party" or the "Wall Street" party?

We are doing this thing and Jill Stein the ego whore can go have dinner with her boyfriend Putin!

Could you tell me if the "Greens" are so democratic how come Stein is ALWAYS their candidate?

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Since the beginning I have been trying to convince you that we can not sit around and let the GOP win, that the GOP represents a clear and present danger if the election if Trump hasn't shown you that this is true I really don't know what will Shadz.

It has always been my position that we should engage in the Democratic Primaries in order to get people that will fight for real change, this is starting to happen, you should be a part of that, give up on your divisive pursuit of third parties.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

“The Democratic Party is an ABSOLUTE FAILURE!" (Bernie Sanders)

So, who has been 'sitting around'?! U?!! Is that what U did in John McCain Land, Arizona?!!! To get The

People to "give up on .. pursuit of third parties'' seems to be your only real goal because under any and

all circumstances: One Half of U$A's Corporate DUOPOLY ... is your ONLY answer to EVERY possible

problem faced by U$A's Working Class 99% - isn't it? Bernie'd win in 2020 ... as a Dem or Independent

but your Primary Loyalty is to the structure and body of Corp. Dem. Party & DNC ... NOT to USA's 99%,

right? Because from the very get-go of OWS .. U & people like U's ONLY answer to everything - is Vote

Dem, right? But increasingly folk say "fk that!" .. as they see that Corp. D & R Duopoly is a faux choice!

So do U think the Corp status quo in US is ordained & for ever? BOTH D&R started as 3rd Parties btw!

What are your ideas for getting the real issues that US' 99% face, to be front and center in US Politics?

Finally, points and observations from 1st link below still apply, no matter how hard U try to ignore them!

ad iudicium?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23316) 2 years ago

Imagine if the Democrats, the party supposedly for the poor and working people, had backed Bernie Sanders in 2016! Trump would simply not be president. Trump IS president because the Democrats failed to understand just how pissed off the American people are and how sick and tired of the establishment and status quo economics and politics they are.

The people who voted for Trump did so because they wanted real CHANGE. Of course, they are finding out Trump is not bringing the change they thought he would as he's all for the 1 percent and corporations, but they were so desperate that they took the chance and now look at the state of this country!

All the polls showed Bernie would have beaten Trump. The blame lays squarely with the Democrats who co-opted the primary away from the people and annointed Hillary Clinton who was extremely disliked by many on both the left and the right, hence Trump!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

On OWS' 7th anniversary, the truth that "Bernie would have beaten Trump (so) The blame lays squarely with the Democrats (DNC) who co-opted the primary away from the people and anointed Hillary Clinton who was extremely disliked by many on both the left and the right, hence Trump!" - is clear & obvious to all but the most adickted partisan Dem/DNC half-wits! The Corporate Co-option of Dems - necessitated OWS, who then were the wind in Bernie's sails. My further thoughts on the matter can to be found here:

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23316) 1 year ago

Bernie Sanders triumphant on Fox.

"Sanders takes on Fox — and emerges triumphant"

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/bernie-sanders-millionaire-no-apology-1277009

Bernie Sanders entered the Fox's den on Monday night — and he not only survived the hourlong encounter, but often dominated.

"Appearing at a Fox News-hosted town hall, smack in the middle of Trump Country, the Democratic presidential front-runner played the part, swatting down tough questions from the hosts about health care, defense spending and his newfound wealth. At one point, the Vermont senator even led the network’s audience in a call-and-response that found them cheering loudly for his policies."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Do we "Dare to declare Capitalism dead - before it takes us all down with it"? by George Monbiot:

''The economic system is incompatible with the survival of life on Earth. It's time to design a new one.''

spero meliora ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23316) 1 year ago

Are we at a new stage of activism?

Have we pretty much finished defining what the problems are? Have we gotten the masses to wake up to what those problems are?

Do we now need to find ways to FIX the problems?

Seems to me that this is now the case. So, a short 7.5 years from the actual occupation of Zucotti Park we now are pretty much woke to what the problems are but still need to sort out what we need to do to fix things.

"Capitalism’s failures arise from two of its defining elements. The first is perpetual growth. Economic growth is the aggregate effect of the quest to accumulate capital and extract profit. Capitalism collapses without growth, yet perpetual growth on a finite planet leads inexorably to environmental calamity."

Monbiot says we need to end the myth that our economy can handle "perpetual growth."

I'd say that's a step in the right direction.

Just this week, job creation was supposedly up and the economy has grown, but how can it keep growing forever? The biggest loser of a constantly growing economy is the ENVIRONMENT.

Planet earth simply can't sustain the growth that a capitalist economic system requires.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Just this week, job creation was supposedly up and the economy has grown

& just exactly how much of that unprecedented growth (as some media puts it) is due to Unprecedented Storm Damage? Lifting the jobs numbers for construction and manufacturing. How much of that is going to Climate Change (global warming) disaster relief and rebuilding? & so is basically short term as well as seasonal work that will be paying as little as possible to the actual workers.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

''The Coming Generation War'' by Niall Ferguson and Eyck Freymann:

"The Democrats are rapidly becoming the party of the young — and the consequences could be profound."

And from your reply:"Monbiot says we need to end the myth that our economy can handle "perpetual growth" (as) "Planet earth simply can't sustain the growth that a capitalist economic system requires."

The youth of today see that in Global Corporate Consumer Crapitalism, it is The Earth itself which is being consumed and that the Modern High Finance / Low Ethics Corporate Capitalism & the Rentier Economy it serves, is fundamentally unstable, unfair & unsustainable. System change required now!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23316) 1 year ago

Requiem for the American Dream, documentary.

https://archive.org/details/Requiem-for-the-American-Dream-720p-WEBDL-x264-AC3

Inequality can be overcome. We can make this a better and more beautiful world through true democracy but it must be fought for, we can't be complacent. It will not be handed to us. Capitalism is a failed economic system that needs either checks and balances that favor the masses or to be thrown out in it's entirety.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Noam Chomsky, like Old Testament Prophets before him - has been trying to warn Americans about the consequences of their ignorance, amorality & their prejudices, propaganda & perverted politics. That's a fantasic documentary (filmed over 4 years) that U've linked to above. Thanx bw and ...

Indeed .. ''Inequality can be overcome. We can make this a better and more beautiful world through true democracy but it must be fought for, we can't be complacent. It will not be handed to us. Capitalism is a failed economic system that needs either checks and balances that favor the masses or to be thrown out in it's entirety'' - and so like the OT elders knew .. a JUBILEE must be part of the solution! Also fyi ...

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Bernie Sanders and AOC are making the Democratic party better, Jill Stein has done nothing to make it better, but has divided the left and helped the right win, I hope you will be there fight the GOP and the Trump supporters going forward...we must KILL the GOP to save American!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23316) 1 year ago

Bernie Sanders triumphant on Fox.

"Sanders takes on Fox — and emerges triumphant"

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/bernie-sanders-millionaire-no-apology-1277009

Bernie Sanders entered the Fox's den on Monday night — and he not only survived the hourlong encounter, but often dominated.

"Appearing at a Fox News-hosted town hall, smack in the middle of Trump Country, the Democratic presidential front-runner played the part, swatting down tough questions from the hosts about health care, defense spending and his newfound wealth. At one point, the Vermont senator even led the network’s audience in a call-and-response that found them cheering loudly for his policies."

There. I'll repeat my tweet which didn't mention Jill Stein. YOU are the one mentioning Jill Stein.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

''What To Do If Your Vote Is Purged? ... Greg Palast Answers Your Calls!''

Most Americans have NO idea about the extent of Voter Suppression; Electoral Fraud & Stolen Elections in U$A! Thanx for the links. Solidarity bw; keep on fighting the good fight for USA's 99%!

per ardua ad astra!

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

We couldn't even get people on the OWS forum to support Bernie back in 2015/2016 I was the only posting in support during the last primary, I do hope he gets more support from the forum and the party this time around.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I was here supporting Bernie and trying to unify us against the GOP but most people here would rather attack the Dems and divide us. It's not "the Democrats" it is every single person who didn't do all they could to ensure bernie won the primary I know i was here posting almost every week in his support, I remember those that weren't those that never talked about Bernie until he had lost, maybe if more PEOPLE had registered Democratic and voted in the primaries things would be different.

Here's a few if you don't remember:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/koch-depends-on-if-her-actions-were-quite-differen/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/3-reasons-bernie-sanders-is-now-the-democratic-fro/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/2016-bernie-momentum-on-the-rise/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/2016-bernie-momentum-on-the-rise/

and here are some from others who want real change:

GSW

http://occupywallst.org/forum/biggest-presidential-crowd-getter-bernie-sanders/

BradB

http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-2016-vs-dnc-complaint/

You see if you get away from the ego whore Greens anything is possible...

and as long as we are "imagining", imagine if Nader had supported Gore?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23316) 2 years ago

Time to wipe out neoliberal Democrats says this article. Something to read, factsrfun.

"Yes, let's wipe out Trump. But take neoliberal Democrats with him, too"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/10/trump-neoliberal-democratic-party-america

"Amid an upsurge of populist energy that has alarmed the Democratic establishment, a new wave of left-leaning insurgents have been using Democratic primaries to wage a fierce war on the party’s corporate wing. And, as in past presidential primary battles, many Democratic consultants, politicians and pundits have insisted that the party must prioritize unity and resist grassroots pressure to support a more forceful progressive agenda.

Not surprisingly, much of that analysis comes from those with career stakes in the status quo. Their crude attempts to stamp out any dissent or intraparty discord negates a stark truth: liberal America’s pattern of electing corporate Democrats – rather than progressives – has been a big part of the problem that led to Trump and that continues to make America’s economic and political system a neo-feudal dystopia.

Dislodging those corporate Democrats, then, is not some counterproductive distraction – it is a critical front in the effort to actually make America great again."

Of course, Bernie could have done this in 2016 and I'm not saying you didn't want him to do it, I think you did. But why give up now? The stakes are bigger than ever. We need to rid the left of right winger neoliberals and we need to do it asap.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You might very well remember that from the very beginning I have been calling on supporters of OWS to participate in the Democratic Primaries to push it to the left, on here I have been attacked as trying to "co-op" the movement by Green Party political hacks bent on co-opting this forum for the Greens.

It is good to see so many people waking up to the need to do this, i was there 7 years ago, well even before that but when OWS came along I had hope, but mostly the Green Party hacks beat back that effort not just here but across the nation, where people like Stein was welcome to speak at rallies that's what killed OWS....

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Did you "give up" when Bernie didn't win the primary? Or did you do ALL you could to stop Trump?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23316) 2 years ago

The Green party had zero to do with Trump winning. Get over yourself and move along. Trump won because your beloved Democrats annointed Hillary Clinton.

You, personally, may have wanted Bernie to be the Democratic candidate but that you are so forgiving of your party for robbing him makes me wonder what democracy really means to you. It seems to mean that we just pick from two and we don't question it, nor do we ever hope to vote for candidates whose platforms we actually believe in (ie. The Green Party Platform is pretty damn good!).

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The worst thing about the f'ing Greens is they draw the left away from the Democratic Party where they could be pushing the Party to get rid of the cronies and do the right thing.....

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It's BECAUSE of OWS & Independents like Bernie & Green's Like Jill that the Public is voting OUT false Dems and are replacing them with Individuals who (to this point in time) are Pushing (running on) The People's Agenda. Yep - be sure to thank them!

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

because people realized that Greens are ego whores and they are joining the Revolution in the Democratic Party (something I have been pushing for years) I hope we can count on you to leave the Greens and join the Revolution!

It is a shame we lost so many years while people spent time listening to people like Jill Stein we lost a lot of years while we worked through the Green Party infection but I do believe OWS may be cured we will see as the election approaches....

[-] -3 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

"my beloved Democrats" are you capable of having a discussion?

Or would you rather hear about how much you LOVE Donald Trump for SAVING you from Hillary?

After all if I "my Democrats" are "beloved" then you must REALLY love Donald Trump! (I can be as much of an absolutist as you, just because I recognize the threat the GOP presents it does NOT mean I love all the Dems do, I just know it my duty as a human being to do all I can to stop the GOP!)

The Green Party are divisive ego whores and ALL that vote for them are stupid.

and in Michigan the Jill Stein voters could have chosen to stop Trump instead of "making a point" the stupid ego whores....

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

So you are determined to continue to elect people like W Bush and Donald Trump? You should take a look at Angela Green and fully support the Dems to keep the GOP from winning, but I guess you like Trump better than HRC.

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/414439-arizonas-green-party-candidate-drops-out-of-senate-race-and-endorses

I guess "sitting around" isn't true you actively elect Republicans.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Your "guess" speaks volumes, as U again show how incapable U are of seeing that The Repugnants'

Bush (dad dead; sons soon) & tRUMP & family are actually amply balanced in the disgusting duopoly

that's your "Zero Sum Game, Binary" by the likes of Corporate Ass Kissing Pelosi, Biden etc.! Have U

seen the RW Corporate Scum that the DNC are lining up for 2020?!! Bernie should go "Independent"

asap AFTER the fkn DNC stitch him AND USA's 99% up .. just like last time!!! Go get a clue factsy ...

ad iudicium ...