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Forum Post: This was once an optimistic place where people dreamed of changing the future.

Posted 10 months ago on Aug. 30, 2018, 9:46 a.m. EST by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Then the Green Party ego whores co-opted it and it became a "beat down the Dems" site, we can't even celebrate our victories here because those come from joining the Democratic Party and fighting the GOP. We were once a movement of unity but this forum has become a backbiting destructive force.

36 Comments

36 Comments


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[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33770) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

This was once an optimistic place where people dreamed of changing the future.

Still is.

You are the one who has gone shit-house rat crazy.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

I am the same as I have always been. I support taking over the Dems and killing the GOP and I hate the ego whore Greens, that's never changed with me, it is you who now can't decide if you love Trump for saving you from Hillary Clinton or maybe you wish you had been there supporting her to save us from Trump really I don't think you know what the hell you want.

but shadz and ak they are pure political hacks here to co-opt the forum for the fucking Greens

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 10 months ago

So https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

because - IF U are going to post like Trashy

U'll get treated just like him .. U big numpty!

temet nosce!

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

What's a matter shadz, is it getting lonely at your Green Party ego whore rallies?

Isn't it fantastic how millions of radicals all over the nation are taking over the Democratic Party?

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 10 months ago

The main "matter" is DNC and Corp. Dems & their RW disconnect from "millions of radicals all over the

nation" but U are such a partisan, that U can't tell A$$ from e|_bow! Let's try again & see IF U can deal

with actual points and evidence of crookery and calumny. So look here and revert honestly - IF U can...

See if U can reply without recourse to childish slurs & name calling & I'll try to do the same. Good luck,

however posting and whining like TrashyManque', is anti-OWS, anti-The Forum & anti-USA's 99% imo

but your frustrations at never being able to co-opt this OWS ... still spills over into forum-posts like this!

spero meliora!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22890) 5 months ago

Jill Stein on CNN right now discussing ranked choice voting and the absurdity of two party voting. Americans are tired of the choice of the war party and Wall Street party, oops, same thing.

So called "spoilers" can be avoided by having ranked choice voting.

We don't have to shut down debate and shame third party candidates. The solution is ranked choice voting. The state of Maine has it now and we can all have this.

"Silencing candidates is not good for democracy." - Jill Stein. A very basic truth.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

"American voters want and deserve more choices. Almost 60% of Americans are fed up with the 2-party system. The best way to have more choices without fear of "splitting the vote": support the movement for Ranked Choice Voting. Then we can have a real debate - and a real democracy."(Dr.J.S.) from:

The "First Past The Post" voting system is sub-optimal & Proportional Representation has much to offer. Many thanx for your raising this important matter, as without such ideas .. Democracy Dies In Darkness!

ergo, fiat lux ...

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 5 months ago

"Why don’t people ever tell billionaires who want to run for President that they need to “work their way up” or that “maybe they should start with city council first”?"..Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1090625411950805002

Maybe somebody should tell Jill Stein too, or would that be too much like work?

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 5 months ago

Do you consider Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez to be a member of the "war party" or the "Wall Street" party?

We are doing this thing and Jill Stein the ego whore can go have dinner with her boyfriend Putin!

Could you tell me if the "Greens" are so democratic how come Stein is ALWAYS their candidate?

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

Since the beginning I have been trying to convince you that we can not sit around and let the GOP win, that the GOP represents a clear and present danger if the election if Trump hasn't shown you that this is true I really don't know what will Shadz.

It has always been my position that we should engage in the Democratic Primaries in order to get people that will fight for real change, this is starting to happen, you should be a part of that, give up on your divisive pursuit of third parties.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 10 months ago

“The Democratic Party is an ABSOLUTE FAILURE!" (Bernie Sanders)

So, who has been 'sitting around'?! U?!! Is that what U did in John McCain Land, Arizona?!!! To get The

People to "give up on .. pursuit of third parties'' seems to be your only real goal because under any and

all circumstances: One Half of U$A's Corporate DUOPOLY ... is your ONLY answer to EVERY possible

problem faced by U$A's Working Class 99% - isn't it? Bernie'd win in 2020 ... as a Dem or Independent

but your Primary Loyalty is to the structure and body of Corp. Dem. Party & DNC ... NOT to USA's 99%,

right? Because from the very get-go of OWS .. U & people like U's ONLY answer to everything - is Vote

Dem, right? But increasingly folk say "fk that!" .. as they see that Corp. D & R Duopoly is a faux choice!

So do U think the Corp status quo in US is ordained & for ever? BOTH D&R started as 3rd Parties btw!

What are your ideas for getting the real issues that US' 99% face, to be front and center in US Politics?

Finally, points and observations from 1st link below still apply, no matter how hard U try to ignore them!

ad iudicium?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22890) 10 months ago

Imagine if the Democrats, the party supposedly for the poor and working people, had backed Bernie Sanders in 2016! Trump would simply not be president. Trump IS president because the Democrats failed to understand just how pissed off the American people are and how sick and tired of the establishment and status quo economics and politics they are.

The people who voted for Trump did so because they wanted real CHANGE. Of course, they are finding out Trump is not bringing the change they thought he would as he's all for the 1 percent and corporations, but they were so desperate that they took the chance and now look at the state of this country!

All the polls showed Bernie would have beaten Trump. The blame lays squarely with the Democrats who co-opted the primary away from the people and annointed Hillary Clinton who was extremely disliked by many on both the left and the right, hence Trump!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 10 months ago

On OWS' 7th anniversary, the truth that "Bernie would have beaten Trump (so) The blame lays squarely with the Democrats (DNC) who co-opted the primary away from the people and anointed Hillary Clinton who was extremely disliked by many on both the left and the right, hence Trump!" - is clear & obvious to all but the most adickted partisan Dem/DNC half-wits! The Corporate Co-option of Dems - necessitated OWS, who then were the wind in Bernie's sails. My further thoughts on the matter can to be found here:

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22890) 3 months ago

Bernie Sanders triumphant on Fox.

"Sanders takes on Fox — and emerges triumphant"

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/bernie-sanders-millionaire-no-apology-1277009

Bernie Sanders entered the Fox's den on Monday night — and he not only survived the hourlong encounter, but often dominated.

"Appearing at a Fox News-hosted town hall, smack in the middle of Trump Country, the Democratic presidential front-runner played the part, swatting down tough questions from the hosts about health care, defense spending and his newfound wealth. At one point, the Vermont senator even led the network’s audience in a call-and-response that found them cheering loudly for his policies."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 months ago

Do we "Dare to declare Capitalism dead - before it takes us all down with it"? by George Monbiot:

''The economic system is incompatible with the survival of life on Earth. It's time to design a new one.''

spero meliora ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22890) 2 months ago

Are we at a new stage of activism?

Have we pretty much finished defining what the problems are? Have we gotten the masses to wake up to what those problems are?

Do we now need to find ways to FIX the problems?

Seems to me that this is now the case. So, a short 7.5 years from the actual occupation of Zucotti Park we now are pretty much woke to what the problems are but still need to sort out what we need to do to fix things.

"Capitalism’s failures arise from two of its defining elements. The first is perpetual growth. Economic growth is the aggregate effect of the quest to accumulate capital and extract profit. Capitalism collapses without growth, yet perpetual growth on a finite planet leads inexorably to environmental calamity."

Monbiot says we need to end the myth that our economy can handle "perpetual growth."

I'd say that's a step in the right direction.

Just this week, job creation was supposedly up and the economy has grown, but how can it keep growing forever? The biggest loser of a constantly growing economy is the ENVIRONMENT.

Planet earth simply can't sustain the growth that a capitalist economic system requires.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33770) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 months ago

Just this week, job creation was supposedly up and the economy has grown

& just exactly how much of that unprecedented growth (as some media puts it) is due to Unprecedented Storm Damage? Lifting the jobs numbers for construction and manufacturing. How much of that is going to Climate Change (global warming) disaster relief and rebuilding? & so is basically short term as well as seasonal work that will be paying as little as possible to the actual workers.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 months ago

''The Coming Generation War'' by Niall Ferguson and Eyck Freymann:

"The Democrats are rapidly becoming the party of the young — and the consequences could be profound."

And from your reply:"Monbiot says we need to end the myth that our economy can handle "perpetual growth" (as) "Planet earth simply can't sustain the growth that a capitalist economic system requires."

The youth of today see that in Global Corporate Consumer Crapitalism, it is The Earth itself which is being consumed and that the Modern High Finance / Low Ethics Corporate Capitalism & the Rentier Economy it serves, is fundamentally unstable, unfair & unsustainable. System change required now!

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22890) 1 month ago

Requiem for the American Dream, documentary.

https://archive.org/details/Requiem-for-the-American-Dream-720p-WEBDL-x264-AC3

Inequality can be overcome. We can make this a better and more beautiful world through true democracy but it must be fought for, we can't be complacent. It will not be handed to us. Capitalism is a failed economic system that needs either checks and balances that favor the masses or to be thrown out in it's entirety.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 weeks ago

Noam Chomsky, like Old Testament Prophets before him - has been trying to warn Americans about the consequences of their ignorance, amorality & their prejudices, propaganda & perverted politics. That's a fantasic documentary (filmed over 4 years) that U've linked to above. Thanx bw and ...

Indeed .. ''Inequality can be overcome. We can make this a better and more beautiful world through true democracy but it must be fought for, we can't be complacent. It will not be handed to us. Capitalism is a failed economic system that needs either checks and balances that favor the masses or to be thrown out in it's entirety'' - and so like the OT elders knew .. a JUBILEE must be part of the solution! Also fyi ...

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

Bernie Sanders and AOC are making the Democratic party better, Jill Stein has done nothing to make it better, but has divided the left and helped the right win, I hope you will be there fight the GOP and the Trump supporters going forward...we must KILL the GOP to save American!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22890) 3 months ago

Bernie Sanders triumphant on Fox.

"Sanders takes on Fox — and emerges triumphant"

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/bernie-sanders-millionaire-no-apology-1277009

Bernie Sanders entered the Fox's den on Monday night — and he not only survived the hourlong encounter, but often dominated.

"Appearing at a Fox News-hosted town hall, smack in the middle of Trump Country, the Democratic presidential front-runner played the part, swatting down tough questions from the hosts about health care, defense spending and his newfound wealth. At one point, the Vermont senator even led the network’s audience in a call-and-response that found them cheering loudly for his policies."

There. I'll repeat my tweet which didn't mention Jill Stein. YOU are the one mentioning Jill Stein.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 8 months ago

''What To Do If Your Vote Is Purged? ... Greg Palast Answers Your Calls!''

Most Americans have NO idea about the extent of Voter Suppression; Electoral Fraud & Stolen Elections in U$A! Thanx for the links. Solidarity bw; keep on fighting the good fight for USA's 99%!

per ardua ad astra!

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 3 months ago

We couldn't even get people on the OWS forum to support Bernie back in 2015/2016 I was the only posting in support during the last primary, I do hope he gets more support from the forum and the party this time around.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

I was here supporting Bernie and trying to unify us against the GOP but most people here would rather attack the Dems and divide us. It's not "the Democrats" it is every single person who didn't do all they could to ensure bernie won the primary I know i was here posting almost every week in his support, I remember those that weren't those that never talked about Bernie until he had lost, maybe if more PEOPLE had registered Democratic and voted in the primaries things would be different.

Here's a few if you don't remember:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/koch-depends-on-if-her-actions-were-quite-differen/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/3-reasons-bernie-sanders-is-now-the-democratic-fro/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/2016-bernie-momentum-on-the-rise/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/2016-bernie-momentum-on-the-rise/

and here are some from others who want real change:

GSW

http://occupywallst.org/forum/biggest-presidential-crowd-getter-bernie-sanders/

BradB

http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-2016-vs-dnc-complaint/

You see if you get away from the ego whore Greens anything is possible...

and as long as we are "imagining", imagine if Nader had supported Gore?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22890) 10 months ago

Time to wipe out neoliberal Democrats says this article. Something to read, factsrfun.

"Yes, let's wipe out Trump. But take neoliberal Democrats with him, too"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/10/trump-neoliberal-democratic-party-america

"Amid an upsurge of populist energy that has alarmed the Democratic establishment, a new wave of left-leaning insurgents have been using Democratic primaries to wage a fierce war on the party’s corporate wing. And, as in past presidential primary battles, many Democratic consultants, politicians and pundits have insisted that the party must prioritize unity and resist grassroots pressure to support a more forceful progressive agenda.

Not surprisingly, much of that analysis comes from those with career stakes in the status quo. Their crude attempts to stamp out any dissent or intraparty discord negates a stark truth: liberal America’s pattern of electing corporate Democrats – rather than progressives – has been a big part of the problem that led to Trump and that continues to make America’s economic and political system a neo-feudal dystopia.

Dislodging those corporate Democrats, then, is not some counterproductive distraction – it is a critical front in the effort to actually make America great again."

Of course, Bernie could have done this in 2016 and I'm not saying you didn't want him to do it, I think you did. But why give up now? The stakes are bigger than ever. We need to rid the left of right winger neoliberals and we need to do it asap.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

You might very well remember that from the very beginning I have been calling on supporters of OWS to participate in the Democratic Primaries to push it to the left, on here I have been attacked as trying to "co-op" the movement by Green Party political hacks bent on co-opting this forum for the Greens.

It is good to see so many people waking up to the need to do this, i was there 7 years ago, well even before that but when OWS came along I had hope, but mostly the Green Party hacks beat back that effort not just here but across the nation, where people like Stein was welcome to speak at rallies that's what killed OWS....

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

Did you "give up" when Bernie didn't win the primary? Or did you do ALL you could to stop Trump?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22890) 10 months ago

The Green party had zero to do with Trump winning. Get over yourself and move along. Trump won because your beloved Democrats annointed Hillary Clinton.

You, personally, may have wanted Bernie to be the Democratic candidate but that you are so forgiving of your party for robbing him makes me wonder what democracy really means to you. It seems to mean that we just pick from two and we don't question it, nor do we ever hope to vote for candidates whose platforms we actually believe in (ie. The Green Party Platform is pretty damn good!).

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

The worst thing about the f'ing Greens is they draw the left away from the Democratic Party where they could be pushing the Party to get rid of the cronies and do the right thing.....

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33770) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 months ago

It's BECAUSE of OWS & Independents like Bernie & Green's Like Jill that the Public is voting OUT false Dems and are replacing them with Individuals who (to this point in time) are Pushing (running on) The People's Agenda. Yep - be sure to thank them!

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

because people realized that Greens are ego whores and they are joining the Revolution in the Democratic Party (something I have been pushing for years) I hope we can count on you to leave the Greens and join the Revolution!

It is a shame we lost so many years while people spent time listening to people like Jill Stein we lost a lot of years while we worked through the Green Party infection but I do believe OWS may be cured we will see as the election approaches....

[-] -3 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 10 months ago

"my beloved Democrats" are you capable of having a discussion?

Or would you rather hear about how much you LOVE Donald Trump for SAVING you from Hillary?

After all if I "my Democrats" are "beloved" then you must REALLY love Donald Trump! (I can be as much of an absolutist as you, just because I recognize the threat the GOP presents it does NOT mean I love all the Dems do, I just know it my duty as a human being to do all I can to stop the GOP!)

The Green Party are divisive ego whores and ALL that vote for them are stupid.

and in Michigan the Jill Stein voters could have chosen to stop Trump instead of "making a point" the stupid ego whores....

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8213) from Phoenix, AZ 8 months ago

So you are determined to continue to elect people like W Bush and Donald Trump? You should take a look at Angela Green and fully support the Dems to keep the GOP from winning, but I guess you like Trump better than HRC.

https://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/414439-arizonas-green-party-candidate-drops-out-of-senate-race-and-endorses

I guess "sitting around" isn't true you actively elect Republicans.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

Your "guess" speaks volumes, as U again show how incapable U are of seeing that The Repugnants'

Bush (dad dead; sons soon) & tRUMP & family are actually amply balanced in the disgusting duopoly

that's your "Zero Sum Game, Binary" by the likes of Corporate Ass Kissing Pelosi, Biden etc.! Have U

seen the RW Corporate Scum that the DNC are lining up for 2020?!! Bernie should go "Independent"

asap AFTER the fkn DNC stitch him AND USA's 99% up .. just like last time!!! Go get a clue factsy ...

ad iudicium ...