Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: This structure is designed to just reinforce group think, this is not democracy (direct or otherwise)

Posted 2 years ago on March 21, 2012, 1:01 p.m. EST by francismjenkins (3713)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I'm sorry, but the whole raise both hands and wiggle your fingers if you agree, limp both wrists and wiggle your fingers if you disagree, raise your fist if you strongly oppose, and so on, seems like it would promote group think. People will naturally look around, take cues from others, and so I'm not sure how this is described as "consensus building"?

What about raise a proposal, allow a transparent but anonymous vote, and immediately read the results of the vote (so people will not be intimidated by group think).

It would be interesting to see a psychological study on this group dynamic, but the theoretical underpinning of this idea seems flawed.

6 Comments

6 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

That's the problem with consensus decision making -- it becomes groupthink dominated by an ingroup. It also has trouble making real decisions.

Where are the proposals that will rally middle America? Where are the lists of actions that will restart the American economy, provide jobs, save the middle class?

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

You can't even call it true consensus building if it reduces to group think. I mean, a well functioning democracy is consensus building, and we have a very simple way of washing out bias caused by group think, anonymous voting. Otherwise, you just get the byproduct of a mob mentality, intimidation based opinion (which isn't an opinion at all).

I'm very pissed at the fact that our country has gone in such a wrong direction, but I'm becoming even more pissed that our main voice for change is becoming a totally dysfunctional organization. This actually seems counterproductive to actually accomplishing something.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

The failure (or failure so far) of the Egyptian Tahrir Square uprising was itself a groupthink failure. At the end they chanted "We and the army are one" -- but it was nothing more than wishful thinking.

At the time, I said 'wait a minute, the military hasn't even released arrested demonstrators. Why don't they insist the arrestees be freed and a caretaker government be set up.'

But as a groupthink mass they had no protection from shared delusions or access to seasoned judgement.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8689) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

“groupthink” is only a description, let’s not over endue it

We have a situation in this country that is not normal, it was created by many years of careful manipulation of the facts and the message presented through the media. I believe what is happening, in part because of the technology, people are starting to hear truth, OWS has developed ways to get simple truth to the people’s ears. Early on when we heard people talk about wealth distribution in America, and they were accused of class warfare, but they kept talking, for a little while. If we can get that message out, the truth of it will change everything I truly believe that, so yes we stubble on the way, people with access to websites do things others disagree with, but all of that is small compared to the power of our message.

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

All of the substantive decisions are being made behind the scenes. Not through the GA's. Otherwise nothing substantive would get done. In a twisted way thats actually a good thing. All the GA nonsense is just meant to give people the warm fuzzies that don't know any better how absurd, unrealistic, ineffective, manipulative, incompentent, deceptive, and not to be taken seriously, it actually is.

Whatever is happening behind the scenes, they just use the GA's to guide people towards their outcomes. It's manipulating the masses to a predetermined outcome.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

That would be a nightmare.