Forum Post: This movement is doomed
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 4:35 p.m. EST by devilsadvocate
(67)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Browsing this forum it becomes painfully obvious that most of this activity is un-directed, unorganized. Basically, a bunch of angry children running around screaming and yelling. What's a matter baby? We don't know, were just pissed!
No,no,no,the American people begin to wake up and they known what's wrong in their country .Together again for American dreams and the future,just like the Father have done.
If you can give out dvd's of lets say the documentary" the inside job" people may begin to understand. I know people that are wondering why there's a protest and don't know why. Play it 24 /7 outside the protest area for tourist people friends to each and yea also the wall streeter.
Get I get a DVD of 'The Transformers'?
The movement is three weeks old. It also out of necessity is a movement without a serious infrastructure. The question is how you help provide direction to a movement that is inherently consistent of so many different view points.
I would like to offer a solution. Create a democratic polling system to determine what issues the movement will focus on. I am establishing www.lobbydemocracy.com to do just this. Not exclusively for this movement, but for everyone who feels that their voice is being overpowered and would like a larger say on what is happening on Capitol Hill. We will poll our members to determine where we will stand on the issues and then will take that polling data to Capitol Hill to fight for the interests of the majority.
1. Reinstate the Glass Steagal Act, which in 1933 separated commercial banks (conservative, FDIC insured banks) from investment banks (high-stakes investment and gambling operations). The repeal of this act contributed to the financial crises by giving banks the freedom to take far greater risks with taxpayer insured deposits.
2. Regulate credit default swaps as insurance, which they are. Warren Buffet called CDSs “financial weapons of mass destruction” because they multiply the effect of a major default ten, twenty, a hundred times and tie all financial markets together. CDSs are hugely profitable bets for banks and hedge funds. Regulating them will require that the institutions writing them have sufficient assets to cover their bets. Banks and hedge funds will not like this.
3. Tax hedge fund fees as ordinary income, which they are. The hedge fund managers have a special benefit (called carried interest), which reduces their taxes by over 50% totaling billions of dollars per year. There is no reason that these mega-billionaires, who create no real value or jobs, should get special benefits at our expense.
4. Reduce interest on student loans to 1% or less, forgive some percentage of student loans as an economic stimulus. The banks charge 7% and more for taxpayer guaranteed student loans where the banks have little or no risk. Student loans are just another way the banks suck money out of the economy and away from real people.
5. Enact universal, single payer health care creating a government financed, privately managed health care system. This is the fiscally conservative thing to do. We pay almost twice as much per capita for health care as other wealthy countries pay. The extra money goes to health insurance companies, drug companies, medical tech companies and lawyers. Our health care system is one half medical care and one half corporate welfare. We need to end all forms of corporate welfare, most of which are invisible to the average person.
6. End US imperialism, which is simply more corporate welfare that simultaneously feeds the fires of terrorism. Yes, our young men and women are getting blown up and killed for oil; that is, to benefit corporations, oil corporations and other corporations. We need to bring our troops home and put them to work on rebuilding our infrastructure instead of creating hatred in the world.
7. End or reduce globalization through tariffs and other import controls. Globalization is mostly corporate welfare at taxpayer expense. It’s true, we each save $100 per year in cheaper pants and shoes, but the corporations make trillions and pay billions in bonuses from profits made by moving jobs and manufacturing facilities overseas and out of reach of environmental and child labor laws. Reducing globalization will be good for our economy and the environment.
8. Create a tax policy that reduces income and wealth stratification. The United States is now worse than many third world countries in terms of concentration of wealth and income. This is one of the major causes of our deficit as the very rich shield their assets or buy their way out of paying taxes while the poor can’t afford to pay more and the great tax-paying middle class shrinks toward oblivion through the effects of globalization. Some suggestions. Remove the cap on social security taxes (currently on $105,000 income) and with one pen stroke, solve the social security problem forever. Also, pay for universal health care with a flat payroll and income tax on all income including dividends and capital gains and in this way pay for universal health care almost painlessly while reducing the concentration of wealth.
9. Stop bank bailouts. The Fed is once again bailing out US banks, this time by buying European sovereign debt (really!) with US taxpayer money. They are doing this to protect the US banks and hedge funds that wrote CDSs on sovereign debt and on European banks’ bonds. This is another covert bailout of our high risk-taking banks with taxpayer money. The crisis that is unfolding in Europe has little to do with bailing out the people of Greece or Portugal or Spain. The European bailout money doesn’t even slow down as it passes by Greece on the way to French and German (and US) banks.
10. Throw the cash-rich influence peddlers out of the halls of government so that legislators can legislate honestly and for the good of the people. This is the most important policy demand. Vote out any politician who signed a no-tax pledge. Limit and tightly monitor campaign contributions. Make laws that clearly state that corporations are not people and do not have the rights people have.
Every body has ideas and thats great! The movement itself doesn't have an official list of demands....look at the home page. The list circulated speaking about $20 min wage is absurd
I honestly don't give a fuck if it's doomed or not.
I'm not down there because I'm pushing some agenda or want to elect some hack politician.
I'm down there because I'm ANGRY and I've been waiting for three years for the people to take to the damn streets.
Let's show the powers that be, that they better fear the rest of us.
Our Diversity is our Strength!
If you're browsing this forum, you must have been curious about something...so the movement is working to get attention.
Here's what we want: Term limits - 2 terms and gone, to limit corporations ability to corrupt. Line item veto - to allow a president to cut the pork. Force congress to be subject to the laws they pass. No waivers. Federal referendum.
"Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories". Thomas Jefferson
anytime someone gets poorer someone gets richer. all transactions in the economy net to zero. someones gain is someones loss.
LOL! Spoken like a true strongman type dictator. You need to believe that to justify the initiation of force to steal wealth from one group of people and give it to another. The 'Jews' (scapegoat) for this movement is 'Bankers.' We've all seen this tripe before and the 99% ain't buying it fuckwit. We're buying guns to protect us from you.
rightly so. we have been lied to for so long most people do not no what is real anymore. we are told america is broke. we are told that we need to sacrifice. wall street received a twenty trillion dollar bailout when you consider the bailout packages and federal reserve loans. now wall street wants to collect on us. enough. america is not broke. it pays its bills in money it creates. when you go to the subway how does it work. first they collect the tokens and then thay pass them out. no it looks that way much like our tax system. but the truth is to collect a tax or borrow your own token you have to spend it or issue it first. spending comes before taxes. if the subway wanted to give free rides to the disadvantaged should it save the tokens it collects to give it to the poor. no. it creates tokens at will. why would it save them. this applies to the government and it is a big, big, big, secret. If only people knew they could click their heels and go back home. we just need to take it back.
rightly so. we have been lied to for so long most people do not no what is real anymore. we are told america is broke. we are told that we need to sacrifice. wall street received a twenty trillion dollar bailout when you consider the bailout packages and federal reserve loans. now wall street wants to collect on us. enough. america is not broke. it pays its bills in money it creates. when you go to the subway how does it work. first they collect the tokens and then thay pass them out. no it looks that way much like our tax system. but the truth is to collect a tax or borrow your own token you have to spend it or issue it first. spending comes before taxes. if the subway wanted to give free rides to the disadvantaged should it save the tokens it collects to give it to the poor. no. it creates tokens at will. why would it save them. this applies to the government and it is a big, big, big, secret. If only people knew they could click their heels and go back home. we just need to take it back.
We in Olancho are already setting an example that can be replicated everywhere. This new nation is a work in progress [just like our website]. The people of Olancho wanted to be independent and prosperous and thus embraced joining forces with outsiders who brought a diverse set of ideas and skills.
Olancho was founded by an alliance of rugged individualists who succeeded in ridding irrational and dangerous industrial society precepts to create a resilient nation based on equitable prosperity, small-scale production and an economy limited by the efficiencies of nature.
Olancho seceded from Honduras in 2011 to become the first energy-independent constitutional republic that integrates liberty, self-reliance and free-enterprise with permaculture, agro-ecology, soil husbandry, food security and natural resource conservation.
The people of Olancho have reasserted the legitimate jurisdiction of private rights and environmental stewardship against unsustainable living, rampant consumerism, economic shocks, oppressive oligarchies and engorging bureaucracies in Latin America, the United Sates and Europe.
Olancho is the idea that human prosperity and thriving ecosystems are achievable through the application of renewable energy and appropriate technologies, sustainable agricultural practices and good government.
The economy of Olancho is heavily weighted to the primary sector. Small private enterprises intensively manage highly productive farms and related industries. Each community maximizes its ability to sustain itself with food, water, energy and other resources necessary for human health, well being and prosperity. Surpluses are traded between communities within Olancho and imports and exports are traded with other nations.
Economic growth is strengthened by a unified market, a supportive political-legal system, vast natural resources, a culture that values entrepreneurship and a commitment to investing in material and human capital.
www.republicofolancho.com
At no other time are the masses of the people in a position to come forward so actively as creators of new political, economic and social orders as at a time of revolution.
¡Viva la Revolución! ¡VIVA OLANCHO!
Yes it's doomed! People in 500 cities have been inspired to get out in the street and protest but a quick read of an internet forum reveals the TRUTH! We are DOOMED!
if you really feel strongly about it.. let it be known at shmapr.com. see what others think too.
Want to know why? READ
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/03/334156/top-five-wealthiest-one-percent/
The American Revolutionary War went on from 1775 to 1783 so measured against what has taken just three weeks so far I think the progress has been astounding!
if you can read that and still say "undirected" it's because you are only watching FOX news and are brainwashed.
← Previous Next → Declaration of the Occupation of New York City Posted on September 30, 2011 by NYCGA THIS DOCUMENT WAS ACCEPTED BY THE NYC GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON SEPTEMBER 29, 2011 TRANSLATIONS: FRENCH, SLOVAK, SPANISH, GERMAN, ITALIAN As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage. They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses. They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation. They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization. They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices. They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions. They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right. They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay. They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility. They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance. They have sold our privacy as a commodity. They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit. They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce. They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them. They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil. They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit. They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit. They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media. They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt. They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas. They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive.
i got news for you: anyone can post on this forum.
What is organized to you, speaking with one voice like a Tea Party drone? As individuals, which is something the right-wing is always wailing about, we have to come to our own conclusions. One thing is for sure, the growing resentment of things as they are is growing every day. Last Wednesday's march to Foley Square drew people from all walks of life, union and non-union, young and old. You might be surprised to hear what people are thinking, if you took the time to listen. http://sibob.org/wordpress/
I don't know about you but I'm really pissed because of the shenanigans Netflix pulled by splitting their company. What gave them the right to do that?
I had a movement that was doomed. Prunes fixed that right up.
kick these criminals out of the govt!
While I feel that this post is uninformed, I must say that I fear the same thing. It appears, simply just from looking over this forum, that there is indeed a great lack of direction. I understand that this is a movement of the people with no single leader and I feel that that is the best way to go about this, but there must be more solidarity here for it to be taken seriously and to in fact make a real difference. Think about this coming out into the best case situation. You don't want to gov. to finally break down and say "what are your demands?" and in turn receive the uttered reply "....ummm, let me get back to you on that".
Why do you feel it's misinformed when you seem to agree with the post. The point of the post is to point out the obviously missing leadership and direction of the movement. I can agree with the movement and disagree with how it is progressing. see what lobbydemocracy has to say...that's what I'm looking for..whether I agree with it or not, it's an attempt at leadership that this movement desperately needs...lest it be a bowel movement
What I'm saying, devils advocate, is the rabble is gathering and presumably sharing ideas, strategies and it seems to be gaining momentum and spreading across the country. To be sure, I'm not a participant of this movement so I certainly wouldn't be able to articulate its goals. But I am sympathetic to it and hope begins a dialogue that will change economic and soils trends that we've seen over the last few decades.
I vaguely remember the savings and loans scandal back in the 1980's where at least some of the offenders when to prison and there were some reforms and new regulations. However, with the recent housing bubble collapse those companies responsible not only did no one get arrested, but were bailed out and now making record profits.
We've got one party (Republican) squarely in the pocket of the wealthy's lobbyists and other (Democrate) that is not that much better. One seems to want to gut the middle class while the other wants to slow bleed us.
I am gainfully employed and other than my 401K taking a hit in 2008 haven't been as affected by the recent economic calamity. So my frustation is more of that of a person of reason witnessing abject greed and power grabbing in this country. So I think that these gatherings will at least show the powers that be that the people of this country will not just lie down and take.
With all that said, I agree that they will need to organize and focus their goals at some point if they really expect to change anything. Time will tell if they can...
All movements are ultimately doomed anyway. The question is whether or not they can do some good and effect lasting change that will last beyond their demise. Hopefully this one does.
Yeah I know. All of mine wind up in the toilet.
Hopefully they did some good along the way before exiting.
I agree square...I would like this movement to succeed. Needs direction/cause
Jesus raised a whip and chased the money changers out of the Temple. Was he organized? Nope! Did he make a point? Yup!
I agree. He set a very powerful example. We should drive the money changers out of our temple, which is our planet.
What the hell does Jesus have to do with anything
A whole lot more than you seem to be aware of, especially in this case.
Isn't it almost 2000 years ago that Jesus warned us against pathological attachment to money? "Blessed are the poor... Blessed are those who hunger for justice... Woe unto the rich!!! .... No man can serve two masters: between God and Money you must choose". And as I pointed out earlier, the man who preached and exemplified brotherly love nevertheless did not hesitate to raise a whip to chase out of the Temple those money changers who were the equivalent of the greedy banksters of today...
I love kazoo55's comment: "We should drive the money changers out of our temple, which is our planet." YES! Our planet is a Temple, which greedy corporations have been DESECRATING for far too long and which they will completely DESTROY unless we in turn raise whips to drive them out.
With 2012 coming up we should re-align ourselves spiritually with the Center of the Inner Galaxy and clear up this here mess on earth for a bit, for it's a disgrace the way we let it all fall into neglect. Driving out the money-changers is a good start I think...
And it's nice to have someone agree with me for a change, thank you... Keep it up...
Yeah, "pissed off trust-fund babies'. Like this guy from Nashville who drove a truck for 25 years. http://www.newschannel5.com/story/15631101/occupy-nashville-rally-held-at-legislative-plaza
Thanks for contributing bigfella, brilliant!
Good points Rico You can't anything...if you don't know what you want
This Martini is declious.....pass me patay pls. Thanks. See you at Winged Foot in the morning.
Your words are very condescending, but admittedly funny. We need some more humor in this forum.
Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson were going camping. They pitched their tent under the stars and went to sleep. Sometime in the middle of the night Holmes woke Watson up and said: "Watson, look up at the stars, and tell me what you see." Watson replied: "I see millions and millions of stars." Holmes said: "And what do you deduce from that?" Watson replied: "Well, if there are millions of stars, and if even a few of those have planets, it’s quite likely there are some planets like Earth out there. And if there are a few planets like Earth out there, there might also be life." And Holmes said: "Watson, you idiot, it means that somebody stole our tent."
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/708507790/protest-to-prosperity-occupy-wall-street-pamphlet
We need to Unify under a single cause. We need a democratic economy. Please visit the projects page above and read the pamphlet. It's free. If you decide you want to support us, you can. We are for Democracy and Free-Market! We want to get the word out about how Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill, Martin Luther King Jr., Michael Novak and Ray Carey believed we could find peace and prosperity through economics!
It does have my attention, but thats not success. You must want some kind of change, if you can't articulate it then nothing will happen. Being angry isn't a solution.
Alright. I'll take mine in quarters & dimes please.
Apparently its got your attention....and maybe that's a success in and of itself.
Apparently its got your attention....and maybe that's a success in and of itself.
I didn't see any
You must have skipped over the posts with the big words in them.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" THESE are the words on the Statue of Liberty. And yet YOU choose to mock the very Countrymen that take a stand against the corruption and greed that has consumed our great Nation. The Wall Street protesters are trying to say something. And what you are telling me is that you would rather serve the 1% Elite bureaucrats that could care less if you live or die? Take a poll, how many ex-Military have said that they would NEVER serve the Government we have today. Take a poll, how many Washington D.C. bureaucrats have gone to great lengths to ensure that THEIR children never serve on the Front Lines in combat. The Military has been BLINDED by the anti-American bastards that send them into battle! The same anti-American pricks that RULE over the working-class today.
Pissed off trust fund babies.
This Martini is declious.....pass me patay pls. Thanks. See you at Winged Foot in the morning.
"I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this any more!"
What's wrong with that? For every person who at least speaks out about their corrupt government, however disorganized this group may be, is one person closer to real change.
"Let every man make known what kind of government would command his respect, and that will be one step toward obtaining it." -Civil Disobedience