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Forum Post: **This is not about a park. - #occupy gezi - #diren istanbul**

Posted 8 years ago on June 1, 2013, 11:28 p.m. EST by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Two young Turkish ladies handed me this piece of paper with this information, and the above title at Zuccotti Park earlier today, Saturday June 1. They were very intent on getting their message out to the American people, so I promised them I would put it up here on the Occupy forum. Just before I left them at the corner of Broadway and Cedar St, one of them smiled and said said, "I can feel the Solidarity." I smiled back and said, "Me too."

So here it is, word for word, no emphasis added

it's about not being heard

This would not have happened had it just been the park. Before the park, there was the Ottoman pastry shop. And before that an old cinema. And before that.... Despite local protests, the government continues to destroy keynote buildings and public space in favor of malls or mosques. Protests are to no avail. In a true democracy, citizens can question and amend government initiatives.

it's about the abuse of state power

This wouldn't have happened had the Turkish government not used excessive teargas, guns, tanks, helicopters and physical violence to crush the peaceful Gezi Park protestors. A true democracy allows for protest and does not use excessive violence against its citizens.

it's about media being censored

This would not have happened if the big Turkish media channels covered the riots from the start. Unfortunately there are strong ties between media outlets and the government. This is why Turkish protestors use social media to seek the attention of foreign media. In a true democracy, media is independent and reports in a balanced way on events happening.

it's about minorities not being protected

This would not have happened had the Turkish government done a good job in protecting the different-minded. Whether it is the lazy reaction of the Turkish governement to the attacks on Alevi citizens in Reyhanli, or the way the governemnt tries to restrict the usage of alcohol, or the way companies with opposite political color have a hard time keeping business - Turkish government not only doesn't protect its minorities, it tries to destroy them. A true democracy cherishes its differences and minorities.

This is about democracy

Sound somewhat familiar?....~Odin~



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[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3340) 8 years ago

Yes, very familiar and dayanisma - http://www.nationofchange.org/notes-nyc-occupier-taksim-square-1370354951Great Post:) Never Give Up On Joining The Dots! Occupy The Future! Solidarity to Istanbul.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23583) 8 years ago

Awesome, Odin. Thanks for sharing. And, yes, other than the alcohol restriction, it sounds very similar. Maybe it's even worse here, because most Americans refuse to face the fact that our our democracy has been taken from us.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Agreed, it's worse here in the fact that most Americans have not awoken yet

But in Turkey, the tyranny that they have endured, hence their frustration are worse...I think

Then there's the picture of my old bones a few comments down in reply to gnomunny

I love the song and lyrics in Revolution Moon that's in that YouTube link


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23583) 8 years ago

Very nice, thanks.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

You're welcome


[-] 1 points by mpatruno (3) 8 years ago

Occupy is about much, much more than staying in a park. I cannot disagree with that. Hopefully, our brothers and sisters in Turkey can learn from the original occupiers, and build upon the foundation they built.


We cannot abandon them now, especially in their time of need. We all need to band together across the globe to support them in their struggle. If we employ the lessons learned from 2011 we can achieve success in great numbers.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Supporting each other in our struggle is paramount to our success


[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

Latest New York Times report I read says the Protesters in Turkey so far have been successful in getting the police to pull back, and getting (at least some parts of ) the government to rethink what their doing. ....thinking about tactics..


[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks Shule. From your NY Times link on the protests in Turkey; "It's the first time in Turkey's domestic history that an unplanned, peaceful protest movement succeeded in changing the governemnt's approach and policy, said Sinan Ulgen the chaiman of the Center for Economic and Foreign Policy Studies, a research group in Istanbul.

"It gave for the first time a strong sense of empowerment to ordinary citizens to demonstrate and further their belief that if they act like they did the last few days, they can influence events in Turkey." (my emphasis added)

The Times article for the most part seems consistent with what Turks were saying in NY, but I did hear that the Turkish press was either not reporting the dissent as your link brought up, or totally mis-reporting the issues, which I said to another poster here. So the many Turks who were at Zuccotti were there in the hopes of getting the truth out to the American people via our media. We'll see how that works out with other American MSM

Another sign at the Zuccotti read



[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

I took many pictures of the signs at Zuccotti Park today.

One sign being held up by a young Turkish man read

Imagine there is WAR happening in Times Square and media is not broadcasting


[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

The complete media whitewash of the #MAM has garnered more support than I ever thought possible.

If people think the wool is being pulled over their eyes, it seems to be more of a motivator than just telling them lies.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

I can see the "whitewash", or 'black-out' by the media starting to be a "motivator" too. That's cool. What's #MAM?

And according to several of the Turkish people I talked to, there is a total misreperesentation by the media in Turkey on what the issues really are

Another sign read:

Take Turkey Back From TAYYIP the TERRIBLE (Tayyip Has Erectile Dysfunction)

Gee... the poor Turkish Prime Minister has 100's of thousands of people all over the world protesting his government, and now he's gotta worry about that too...lol


[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

MAM is March Against Monsanto.

Droopy dick syndrome eh? Those Turks have never been ones to mince words.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

OK, I should have figured that out...MAM. Thanks

The guy has more problems than i would want for sure

Another sign with two pics...one with 3 cops surrounding a guy on the ground with one cop's foot hovering over the guy's head...and another picture of a cop grabbing a woman by the hair..in the back of her head

It reads from top to bottom between the pics...



[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

Things are certainly approaching the tipping point in many countries.

Heard today that there's been hundreds blinded, and several dead in Iran, due to bootleg methanol labelled in recognisable bottles.

This ploy was used in Irian Jaya (formerly Papua New Guinea) when the Indos invaded. Some of this methanol found its way into Australia, due to the proximity factor.

The bottles are indistinguishable from the originals. Makes me wonder.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

The "tipping point" is drawing nearer for sure

It could well be a long HOT summer


[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Very inspiring post, Odin. The word does need to spread that this is a worldwide event. TPTB wanted globalization, well, now they got it. Global resistance is building.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks, I thought it was powerful too, and I knew it was important to those young ladies to get the word out.

For many of the OWSNY people and the many Turks at Zuccotti, it was a day when we reinforced our ties, built COMMUNITY, and for some maybe it was an epiphany in realizing that this truly is a world-wide struggle against facism...oppression. There were so many great conversations going on

All over the park there were Occupy banners and flags....yellow cloth..black paint, like police tape...lol.. with SOLIDARITY OCCUPY GEZI...OCCUPY WALL STREET. Some of my friends from OTS made those signs up last week in a warehouse in Brooklyn

There were loud rythmic chants in Turkish that I could hear a block away on my way there

There was another interesting sign that made me think. So I looked it up. It read;

The wound is the place where the light enters Rumi



[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

And it was important to put it on this forum, not only to spread their message but to show your sincerity. If they check here, which I hope they do, they'll see you're a man of your word, which helps reinforce that bond of solidarity. Hell of an effort you put out.

Pretty profound saying by 'Rumi.' Good link, too. Very enlightening.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks g, I know you didn't mean anything by it, but at this point i don't feel i need to prove anything to anyone.

There is a beautiful song that tells a great story called Revolution Moon that I have never heard until i came home from Zuccotti Saturday night. I watched/heard it for the first time on the below Youtube link before i put up the post, but i have known about it for over a year now. It's from early November, 2011. Most of the scenes are from Zuccotti, and a Joan Baez concert at Foley Square

There is an older dude holding up a sign.....1 min. - 41 secs into the clip. You won't have to Google anything to understand the sentiments on that sign


Solidarity g...~Odin~

Consider yourself honored g. I didn't do this lightly. My opponents on here have much to work with now...lol

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 8 years ago


Odin, Oh my!

I've not really been on the open forum for a few days. I'm trying to get caught up on some personal correspondence with a couple of people. But I just wanted to let you know that I peaked in...before I go to dreamland. ~.^

Fais de beaux rêves, mon chere.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Now see what you made me do? Had to break out Google translate again.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Renny did you mean 'peeked' or "peaked" ~.^ & what exactly was "peak[ing]" Should I be 'peeking' / "peak[ing]" too?..lol

There are all types of ways to build COMMUNITY..friendships..alliances, you know ~.^ lol


[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 8 years ago

I understand, you're leaving for AK, today.

I just 'peeked' in to say, 'safe journey'.

Although I know someone of your dedication will not be able to fully surrender the activist role...go, recharge & enjoy, knowing that you're progeny...tenacious trio & bear cubs alike, are proud...as are we here at occupy.

I'm sure the two young Turkish women must have checked the forum and seen that their, and indeed Turkey's voice have been heard internationally, through you.

Through 'direct conversation', you've melded Istanbul and us into closer COMMUNITY here on the forum, and for those that look in on us. You are a shining example of how awareness spreads, Odin.

Be safe & be well

"Peaking"...hmmm... . Spelling mistake...or Freudian slip? ~.^

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Good Morning from Seattle Renny. I'm having a cup of joe at the airport, before leaving for Anchorage soon

I hope that I was able to do some good with that Gezi Park thread

I got a couple of hours of sleep near the famous Talking Fountain...;-) It's especially funny watching someone for the first time using this fountain


Yes my activism continues out here having already had a conversation and leaving lit off with the Wendy's manager at the airport here

I sat next to an older couple on the plane who had just finished visiting their kids in Erie PA, and then had a nice few days in NYC, I stopped talking and listened when

She told me after her husband fell asleep that he had summoned up all his energy to make this trip, and that it would be his last since... he is dying of the cancer brought on by asbestos exposure

I left this reply off before leaving Seattle as my plane was boarding. Anyway I have been in Alaska for the past two days reconnecting with family, especially my little granddaughter whom I took for what used to be our daily routine (a 3 mile walk to town. She slept most of the way listening to everything from Pink Floyd to the Blue Danube, and the Nutcracker Suite. She liked my new Fooled Around and Fell In Love. After we reached town, i had a nice conversation with a person who worked for the Alaska Agriculture something. Anway I asked her what do farmers around here think about Monsanto. She said that they do not think highly of them, and said that she protested against them in Anchorage....the same day that I did in NY

We are looking forward to the Colony Day parade tomorrow which is held every year in commemoration of the first farming settlers who came here to the Matanuska Valley in the 1930s.

During the Great Depression, rathering than instituting austerity measures, as you know Renny, Roosevelt set up the New Deal which was a series of back to work programs. Hmmmm! What a good idea!...lol. One of those programs was where the government would help Mid West farmers to relocate to Alaska and give farming a go there. Each family got 40 acres, and much needed help from the governemnt to get this program started. It was a success, and tomorrow celebrates the arrival of those first settlers to this area in Alaska


It's really cute as some of the first white settlers to Matanuska valley, who were kids in the 30's ....ride in these beautiful vintage convertibles, and seem amazed at all the fuss that is being made over their parents being nuts for trying to farm in Alaska....lol....just kidding....maybe. In fact a lot of veges grow very well here including potatoes, squash, cabbage, carrots, etc. There are some veges which have held world records in weight due to all the sunlight and good volcanic soil

After the parade they have a great town-wide free picnic on the Lutheran (lots of Scandivavians here) Church grounds which has these beautiful flowering Maywood (?) trees

And in case your wondering...the answer is...NO Renny, 'It is no coincidence that I arrived just in time for this yearly celebration.' My granddaughter loves it too...though!

Peaking...hmmm..... i can adapt well...too....~.^...especially to a woman of substance


[-] 4 points by Renneye (3874) 8 years ago

Hey there, Odin. Your thread on Gezi Park is highly informative and valuable in regards to the enlightening perspective of global consciousness...and yes, COMMUNITY.

My heart hurt, as I watched on 'rt', yesterday, as more protest unfolded in Turkey. More deaths and many injuries.

As it gets more political, I worry that the Turkish government will start to divide its people into taking sides and attacking each other, particularly as there is currently a large religious component that is of concern to many.

Government pitting its own people against each other has been done over and over for a millenia, and I desperately wish people would wake up and focus on what unites them, and realize that their real battle is with their government.

Your post is richly weaved with issues congruent with OWS...like Istanbul, handing out (radical ~.^) activist information on your route, local agriculture, Monsanto, ground-breaking (hehe!) government history, and the global asbestos health tragedy...which, btw, reminded me of the Indian boys working their short lives away in the shipyards of India, that we spoke about so eloquently on the 'Modern Slavery' thread.

Your post perfectly exemplifies how we are building COMMUNITY, by sharing little bits of our lives and getting to know one another...by giving and receiving compassion and empathy. THAT is how we build community. I must say, Odin...lucky granddaughter!

In this spirit, I'll share with you, that I became an aunty again very recently. My brother had his first child...a baby boy. My brother has now become quite concerned about the future, heheheh! He went from someone who would not discuss these issues with me, to being very talkative...all at once. Lol! I think we have another activist in our midst : )

Odin, you live and breathe social responsibility...here, across the continent and indeed, internationally.

Mmmmm...a town wide picnic and flowering trees, sounds absolutely...... ambrosial.

Well, being the worldly man of substance that you are...I sense that 'adapting'...would come easy. ~.^

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Renny, does that mean you think I'm a hunk?...lol

Sleep well sweetie...;-)


[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 8 years ago

Non, chérie...one does not call someone so refined, a 'hunk'. I had another word in mind. ~.^


[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks bien dormir ma cherie ~.^

Women of substance outside of OWS are few and far between,


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Just got done watching the clip. At a minute forty one, . . . um, no, can't say I recognize the guy, heheheh.

Good to see you, man. It's always a pleasure to finally put a face to the name.

[-] 1 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 8 years ago

Look at 1:40.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

I see a sign that reads "We will not go away."

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

I see a movement that is gathering support.

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

I feel a movement gathering support.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

And hey it's good, I'm thinking.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Definitely. Definitely good, I think.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

Just using social media as an example, this last week has simply exploded with information, and people are taking up the baton, and running with it.

There is hope, where there was despair. I'm feeling very optimistic again.

[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

You mean on Facebook and Twitter? I don't do either one, but if so I'm glad to hear it. Maybe we'll really get the numbers we need one of these days.

Of course, it also means the other team will be stepping it up as well, I'd assume. But it doesn't really matter because it's always been a question of when, not if.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

I don't do twitter. FB has exploded with info about MonS and GE crops and GMO additives. The backlash is spreading across the globe.

Seems that people can cop being lied to blatantly, but when you try to hide real news stories from them, it's SHTF time.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks for keeping us up-dated on that. I'm glad someone here is doing that

When i was in NY, I got one of my daughters a T-shirt from the OWS shirt girl

It has an apple on the front with a #F inside the apple, & MONSANTO written underneath..with a fuse for a stem, then on the back it says Hey GMOs Stop Trying To Get Into My Plants

Was that "can" or 'can't' and "cop" or 'cope'.....just getting you back for "doddery"...lol


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Damn, it almost makes me wish I did Facebook (not really). I'm working on a Monsanto post as we speak.

No matter. There's no shortage of information out there. The problem is sifting thru all the b.s. and getting to the meat, though.

And you gotta love the beauty of the internet. Never in history has information been able to be disseminated to so many people so fast. It boggles.


[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

I don't look too old and doddery, eh? I have tremendous respect for Joan Baez going back to the 60's, and her part in the anti-war movement. She is a very courageous person, but unfortunately many of the younger people there didn't really know who she was

When she was leaving, she stopped to read my sign...looked me in the eyes, and put two fingers on my cheek


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Doddery is not a word that would have come to mind, no. And old? Hey, you know what they say. Besides, it doesn't sound like you slow down enough to get old. That's what it's all about. I have an uncle that has to be closing in on 80 by now, and he still gets together with his buddies for an occasional hole or two of golf.

And I'm going to beat you to it this time.

Good night, Odin. ;-)

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks...you win this round ;-)

Good Night g


[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

Touched by an angel.

The term is doddery. As in doddering around the back garden.

I reckon you're about twenty years off doddering, Odin.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks builder. I knew I spelled it wrong, but gave up on trying to find the right spelling. I'll correct it now.

Good Night


[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

Hey, no need to change it.

The point gets across.

G'nite Odin.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Good Night Builder. I like to have good spelling and don't usually give up like I did


[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

Replying here on the "can or can't, cop or cope" question.

The phrase "can cop" might be local jargon in Oztraylear. LOL.

Simply means "will put up with". Sorry for the confusion.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

OK..another one of those amusing Aussie colloquialisms

See here in Yankeeland "can" is usually followed by "I", then "cop" is fol ....never mind

I don't want to get banned for 'splaining the differecnes in how our countries bastardize the English language ;-)


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

I meant prove it to those two Turkish ladies, not to the forum because you don't need to prove yourself here. But to them, you're a stranger. And if they're visitors here rather than citizens, and if they did in fact see that you posted this as promised, they would be taking away a very positive impression of Americans and OWS.

I'll check out that YouTube clip in a minute or two and respond. Gotta step away for a few. But before even doing so, it sounds like you're being a brave man. ;-)

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks g, but I'm no braver than a whole bunch of people in Occupy


[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Well, you're just being your humble self again, but I think it's important to show people from other countries that OWS isn't comprised of a bunch of 'stereotypical Americans.' Or as a forum favorite puts it, "Big Mac inhaling, Springer addicts."

That's why I always make a point of responding to the occasional post from outside our borders. If for no other reason, just to show the respect. Unfortunately, I've logged on numerous times and saw a five or six hour-old post that had zero replies.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

That "Big Mac inhaling, Springer addicts" thing was funny, but unfortunately true. Was that Thrassy who put that up?

Thanks, but it's more honesty than being "humble." Overcoming the "stereotypical" view of "Americans" that many people have has always been a goal of mine. It is also a goal for me to make it more difficult for the MSM to brand us fauxly in a negative way, hence I always try to maintain a sense of dignity (sort of) that befits my age when i am at an OWS event.. That is difficult sometimes though.

Everyone expends their energies in different ways both here on the forum, and out in the streets whether it is taking part in protests (which we all should do), or belonging to affinity groups, or doing out-reach, etc. We are all learning from each other and from our mistakes, and discovering what works best. But most of us, i think are not doing what we pictured doing when this first began. Instead we have gravitated into what we do best, or what interests us most. And that's a good thing.

I do find when i concentrate on singular issues, like how to advance this movement, I lose out on learning about other asects of our struggle. But there are only so many hours in a day, and I look to balance my life more because you are no good to anyone, mostly yourself if you 'burn out' which i have seen Occupiers do.

To make sure that does not happen to me, i will not be posting as much in the next month and a half when i will be with family in AK. So the pressure is on you and the many good posters here for a while...;-)


[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Yeah, that was Mr. T. Maybe not his exact words, but that was the gist of it. And it is far too true, but people shouldn't assume it's the majority.

And I agree, it's a good thing for people to play to their individual strengths. I think that kind of diversity is a good thing. If everyone had focused on just one thing from the very beginning, like Citizens United for example, something like Rolling Jubilee might never have come about.

So, when are you leaving for AK?

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Yes diversity in approaches...tactics is to our advantage.

I'm leaving Wenesday. We should ask Thrassy to put that "big mac inhaling..." thing up again 'cause it was hilarious

Don't forget to tease Zen, "You know Zen, Odin is much more handsome than you."...lol


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

Hey, come to think of it, you've just joined his exclusive club of being the only known faces on this forum. Congrats. ;-)

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks...i think. I guess being in "his exclusive club" is cool, eh?

Unfortunately I missed out on those free hugs that day

I forgot to tell you this on this Saturday, I overcame one of my fears, talking in front of a lot of people...... while building COMMUNITY too! ;-) First though... some background. I have known the young lady who is OWS's silk screener almost since this began. I have tons of respect for her, and have been at events with her where it was was super cold and she was giving out OWS T-shirts for donations, and then other times when it was really hot and she was covered in ink and sweat while printing out the shirts

Anyway, I asked to speak for the first time at a GA speak-out in front of maybe 150 people. I said something like, "MIC CHECK...MIC CHECK!, which was repeated back by everyone. Then I said, There is a young lady here who works very hard for the success of this movement...which was repeated back. Then I said... her name is Julie...which was repeated back and i pointed to her...Then I said...it is her birthday today...repeated back...and I propose we all sing her Happy Birthday...which we did. It was really cute. I didn't miss out on my hugs that day


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 8 years ago

You've been having some amazing experiences since getting involved in this. Touched on the cheek by Joan Baez. Personal growth by overcoming some of your fears. Truly amazing.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks, I'm lucky to live close enough to NYC. I would miss the people in OWS very much if I decide to move to AK which is a slight possibility next summer

That depends on what my ex wants to do. She takes care of my granddaughter during the day, and there is another one on the way. I would not want anyone to look after my grandkids other than family. I still consider my ex family proving time heals all wounds.. I do enjoy teasing her tho..saying you will never find anyone like me again. She all to readily agrees....hmmm ?..lol


[-] 0 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 8 years ago

If I may say, you are a handsome grandfather. Thank you for participating in Occupy. When you have a chance, check out the new e-democracy platform: http://www.airesis.eu/ The future is the Bridge To The Ground.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks Thrassy. I usually don't twinkle you, but after a compliment like that, how can I not?...lol


[-] 0 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 8 years ago

Lol! Usually people here only twinkle/stinkle based on the proposer, not the ideas and contents of the comment. Nice to see you break that strongly engrained tradition.

BradB was nice enough to post one of my comments for me yesterday. http://occupywallst.org/forum/imagine-pure-anarchy/#comment-976458 It made it to #1 in the Best Comments section after a few hours. I played no part as I didn't even know he posted it. It was a PM to him.

There's hope. When people read the contents of comments they come to their senses. Who knows, there might be a time when people stop using logical fallacies at every turn. I want e-democracy, but that's what scares me the most at the moment. Logical thinking and reason are thrown out the door in America. If the population made decisions as a whole, I fear the results would be horrible! Imagine all the Global Warming deniers having as much space on the floor as scientists. Oh my! The people would use 25% of MIT's budget to research BigFoot, and UFOs. Lol! Ah, the joy of pseudosciences.

I'm here for the betterment of manmind. So, if a compliment is needed for you to base your twinkles on content instead of the proposer, then that's good. There might come a day when people understand the logical fallacies I've talked about for so long. It takes repetition, but logic and reason will prevail.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

You're a smart guy Thrassy, and there are things to think about in the PM BradB put up here, but

Let's get back to, you thinking I'm a "handsome grandfather"

Errr...are you a woman Thrassy? If so, maybe we could work something out on that Bridge To The Ground thing


[-] 0 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 8 years ago

Nope, not a woman. Not gay either. I'm comfortable enough with my sexuality to tell a man he's handsome when he is. We're looking for ideas, criticism, comments, programming, etc.. with The Bridge To the Ground. However, we are all volunteers. We would love you to contribute, especially since you have connections with affinity groups and it would be wonderful to test the software with Occupy in America. If you can't do it out of love for Occupy, we understand. There are many websites that can help you improve the frequency of your sex life. You can even look for specific fetishes. I'm sure a lot of grandmothers out there feel lonely too.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

I'm confident in who i am too, and i knew you were a guy, just kidding...that's all

I'm just not in the mood to read all your stuff now because i still have a healthy suspicion of your motives


[-] -1 points by DocTalkALot (-5) 8 years ago

Here's the antidote to your problem concerning proper logical reasoning. Read it. Then read it again. It will do you some good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_motive Everyone should learn this stuff in high school.

This paragraph is very important as it relates to your position of having no evidence at all for "evil" motive. It's like they are talking about you!

"A common feature of appeals to motive is that only the possibility of a motive (however small) is shown, without showing the motive actually existed or, if the motive did exist, that the motive played a role in forming the argument and its conclusion. Indeed, it is often assumed that the mere possibility of motive is evidence enough."

Once you comprehend this concept, the next step is to learn to judge ideas on their own merits, without the need to factor in the proposer. Usually, when people attack the proposer with logical fallacies it's because of their inability to judge an idea by itself. The idea might seem complicated, perhaps they are ignorant of certain side issues needed to fully understand the idea, etc... So, they attack the proposer because it's easier.

Once you can judge ideas properly, you will never have to fear motive. You will be able to judge good ideas as being good ideas, and bad ideas as being bad ones. You will be able to understand all the ramifications of an idea, so this will permit you to see if there is any "evil" intent behind it no matter what you think the intent of the proposer is. This is extremely important, because if you can only judge the "bad parts" of an idea based on what you think of the proposer, a proposer could easily fool you by appearing nice and trustworthy then slip you an "evil" idea without you being able to judge it for its own sake.

I'm assuming you also judge ideas as being good based on if you like the proposer? If so, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

You need to break away from the shackles holding back your mind. It's just not true that good ideas come from your "friends" and bad ideas come from your "enemies". Life is more complicated that that.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 8 years ago

This is why we occupy.



[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

If I had sock puppets you would be in the plus again for that comment, lol

Ooops...you are..Congratulations!...;-)


[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

I'll sock it to him for ya, Odin.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Thanks Builder. Gee all good news today...more people in the world have awoken & OTP is in the plus!


[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

I've been quite busy in social media, and the people have picked up the ball, and are running with it.

The news that Connecticut okayed GMO labelling has hit the viral status, IMHO.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

That's great news about Connecticut OK-ing labeling. Did they mention Vermont because the last I heard they were close too?

People can make a difference

Another guy had a sign which had 9 8"x10" and 1 10"x12" pictures of Istanbul on it. People were being teargassed & water-cannoned and of course you could see the distress in their eyes

The sign simply read: ISTANBUL NOW


[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

(quote) In an advance that makes history, Vermont's House of Representatives passed a bill on May 10 requiring foods containing genetically modified organisms (GMOs) to be labeled. This is the furthest any such legislation has made it through the legislative process in the United States.

Vermont's legislative session was due to end already, but negotiations over a tax bill have kept lawmakers in the capitol this week. With the Senate's attention focused fiscally rather than on food, however, H.112 to label GMOs will have to wait to be taken up by the Senate in January 2014. (unquote)

From the same article, there'll be no problem with feeding livestock GMO grains or products, so I'm not so sure about the implications there.

It took three years to get truth in labelling of seafood here, so we need to keep pushing. Bernie Sanders needs our support.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

That is troubling that "livestock GMO grains or products" might be exempted

Bernie is one of a kind, and should be cloned. Has Connecticut exempted livestock feed too?

That's a bitch,. I gotta get my Yank news from an Aussie...:-) Thanks

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

I'm predicting that GMO anything is destined to be distilled into ethanol, and added to gas. The uproar over the underhandedness and outright lies is growing by the minute. Talk of depopulation agendas, finding hidden viruses in GMO's, and MonS hiring Xee mercenaries (formerly Blackwater) to strong-arm farmers, is spreading like wildfire. The prez signing off on indemnity for MonS has added fuel to the fire.

Indeed, we are in for a HOT northern Summer.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

I hope you're right. That would be a tremendous victory for the people

Last week a middle-aged lady was holding up a sign at the MAM, ;-) that read (wait I'll check my cell)...OK



[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 8 years ago

Hmmm, I'll check into that.

More grist for the mill.

Checked it out briefly. Apparently it's a rumour.

Though Academi (nee Xe, nee Blackwater) owns 500,000 MonS shares, and MonS pays them to infiltrate activist groups, to the tune of 500,000 dollars a pop. Nice little cluster&%ck they got going on.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 8 years ago

Monsanto's whole corrupt business model resembles a Mafia operation

One more sign that i asked a young lady with a marker to put on the back of one of my signs. It's reminiscent of when Kennedy was in Berlin. It read:


Good Night Builder. Thanks for sharing this high with me. We'll light up again sometime soon...;-)