Forum Post: This is not a "movement"...its a tantrum.
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 7, 2011, 1:52 a.m. EST by thomasmiller
(163)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Martin Luther King was a "movement"...that was the civil rights movement. Until you can figure out what you are trying to accomplish then this is the tantrum.
I feel that the majority of the people opinionating in this site are only here to tear down the movement
It has been well stated by them that the OWS has not declared what they want (the opposition just knows it opposes, not why?)
My question to them is what are you afraid of? I have seen all kinds of imaginary (non -existent) villains be spoken against. I have seen the imaginary overthrow of our government spoken against. (yet nobody advocates any of the scenarios that are spoken against)
There is now talk about people defending themselves against OWS, yet there have been no threats to anybody from OWS
The bottom line
Not stating what the OWS wants is their biggest organizing tool. It is the fuel that is building the movement. It is revealing an opposition that will “make up things to be against”.
The collective opposition (some do know what it is about) is saying far more about their own imagined fear of the eventual success of OWS than anything else
Actually, Democracydriven, many, many of us on this forum are very interested in supporting changes to the system to make it better. OWS has become one very vocal forum about this, so we are here to see what this is about. And, many many of us are underwhelmed. So, we're entering the conversation. Not stating what OWS wants is not an organizing tool. It's just disorganized.
Of course it is unorganized, it's in it's infancy.
Actually your goals can be read and analyzed continually through the statements of the individuals. You can say "they don't speak for the movement" all you want. When a great many of the stated wishes are expressed it is realistic to ascribe those intentions to the movement or at the very least to presume there will be strong support for those goals within the movement distracting it from possibly more reasonable direction. Doncha think? I think you aren't reading what your peers are posting much.
No goal is an organizing tool? Possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. And there is no shortage of dumb out there pretending sitting under a blue tarp will matter. No goal is like setting the football down under the center's ass every time he hikes the ball. Snap out of it.
It is what it is. Open your eyes. Are you saying it isn't happening?
no one is afraid. It's exciting to see American's protesting in the street. It's frustrating to see American's protesting against corporate greed, when the only way to effect change is to vote out the current batch of politicians. Both sides, republicans and democrats. Can you agree with that?
I disagree with your thinking that changes can only be made through government (ask B of A). Boycotts are also very effective (look at how many people are moving their savings from banks to credit unions). Exposure of villains and schemes will also create change
But as you say/imply the government is the big culprit. In my opinion it is the government, Global financial institutions and multinational corporations all in collusion with each other. How many government officials, judges, lobbyist, media owners etc. belong in the 1% bracket? They all played/play there specific roles in getting America where it is today. I do agree that in the end one party is no different than the other. It really is a good cop/bad cop charade. Nothing really changes but some social issues.
Hopefully this movement is demonstrating that change is coming one way or the other. The villains are being exposed, in and out of government.
I have to agree 100% that the government could be the most effective way to get real change. The problem is how we get that done. It’s like doing the same thing and expecting different results
Listen, the occupy movement has its flaws. Nothing is perfect, but at least someone is trying to move your country in the right direction. If this doesn't work, you are going to be very sorry with the state of society a few decades down the line.
We know what we're fighting against. Of course everyone has their own pet issue, but the core of it is rising wealth inequality, the destruction of the middle class, and increasing corporate influence over government. And obviously then what we're trying to accomplish is to reverse these trends.
All of this "I don't get what they're protesting" shit just looks you look ignorant.
I promise, you won't be so smug about this in time. If it doesn't happen peacefully now, it will happen violently when things get bad enough.
MLK had a "dream".
ows has a "vision"
Define the difference, please.
By that logic 70 percent of Americans are having a "tantrum" over what the bankers did. There's a lot to fix. And a lot of people need to go to jail. I hope we are as successful with our "tantrum" as Tunisia was with theirs.
Tunisia threw out the political leaders and installed strict Islamism. Just what is it you want to do here?
First off, that's a false statement. Tunisia didn't "install" anybody. They had huge turn-outs for their elections. Moderate Muslims won a majority of seats. Secondly, Tunisia is far from a strict Islamic state. Either you're a stupid, brainwashed Republican zombie or you're trying to purposely mislead people. You are the one with the agenda, Koch-sucker.
HitGirl, are you aware of Sharia Law? The law of the land the Muslim Brotherhood lives by? Female Genital mutilation in some cases, polygamy in all cases, and a woman must cover up their skin? As a woman, doesn't this upset you at all? Don't you feel bad for women in Tunisia? They certainly didn't vote for this.
Once again, Tunisia is not an Islamic State. I've seen the women walking without veils. Please educate yourself before you post!
It's not Tunisisa TRIPOLI, Libya But recent NY Times article talking about polygamy in Lybia. As a woman, are you for your husband or boyfriend to have multiple wives, women? http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1745265
Beginning of article In announcing the success of the Libyan revolution and calling for a new, more pious nation, the head of the interim government, Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, also seemed to clear the way for unrestricted polygamy in a Muslim country where it has been limited and rare for decades.
Lybia is another matter. It is very barbarous there. But if you're asking if I'm in favor of Sharia Law: Of course not. The US is great because a woman does not have to worry about being stoned because she wore hot-pants.
My how you talk. "Installed" , whatever. They rose up in the void and the people affirmed it. OK? Satisfied? and - oh,ouch - if I weren't a thinking individual that might have actually cut to the bone. I know you have been brainwashed by your myopic socialist instigators and taught to pigeonhole and label anyone who sees more clearly than you - everything your "ideology" claims to abhor. Global ".org's" committed to "peace" and "social justice" (snicker) even state that there is concern that the nominal Islamist Party is using a "double language" with likely intentions of enforcing strict and repressive Sharia Law. I would offer that you might rise above the "Koch vs.Soros" dynamic and just start looking at the world through your own eyes.
Did you say, "Tunisia threw out the political leaders and installed strict Islamism." ? Is that not a patently false statement? Which you then used to accuse me of having some secret agenda. Then you have the temerity to say my worldview is skewed. Dude you are messed up. I bet you have a Glen Beck chalkboard at home with all this stuff drawn out and linked-up. Stay away from FOX News. It's warping your brain.
Tunisia threw out the political leaders and installed strict Islamism.
I'm actually just more perceptive than your average person. I don't trust this movement as far as I can throw it. Let's see, hmmm. Occupiers:- "One world society."The 1%:- "One world rule." Any similarities???
Draw another line on that chalkboard. And get this: NWO and OWS, they both have O's and W's and that spells OW! See, they're trying to hurt us and if you combine the letters they spell SNOW. Hurry draw another link - use the green chalk. It obviously means they're trying to SNOW us. See, I'm perceptive too :)
Distraction. Noise. All you are.
Then why are you wasting so much time with me, jerkweed? What does that say about you??
Actually 70% don't want to make the economy come to its knees thereby crippling the retirement funds of every midstream family and retiree (the TRUE majority) in this nation. 99% of "the 99%" worked hard for their savings and what with diminished property values, surely don't want a selfish few (OWS) to cripple the economy just for their own satisfaction and drive the value of their hard-earned assets to the floor. Your intentions I suspect are truly evil. You want to worsen conditions much, much further so that 99% actually DO feel destroyed. Your thinking is what? That they will then be so angry they will join you? Is that what the professors and thinktank organizers have fed you? Well, there are enough of us onto your strategy. People nationwide, especially young, strong, good ol' boys in the midwest are right now being made aware of what you're up to. And absolutely NOT. No one's organizing violence to confront any demonstrators. That's not even right. Buuut..When you've brought economic chaos down on the honorable American people do you actually believe they're not going to know it was because of you? If you do think that, you are wrong. All the little innocent posts, like "who, me? we just want to help the little guy, the poor ones" aren't going to disguise what you are up to.
I'm not here to cripple the economy, I'm here because it's already been crippled. What possible reason could OWS have to purposely damage the American economy any further? It would be akin to running up to a burning building and breaking a window then calmly strolling away. You mention the 'Good ol' boys' in the midwest, are those the same young men who have grown up farming? Members of large farming families that are forced to take government subsidies after government stimulated overproduction creates a surplus of grains? Families that jointly own and operate farms, everyone helping out as best they can as soon as they can. The Families that our government wants to illegalize all except for one branch of the family from working? Those good ol' boys, Dave? The ones who buy the highest yield crops just to stay competitive, crops will kill genes inserted to keep them from being replanted by farmers in the us while south American versions from the same company are sold pennies on the dollars sans kill genes? Or do you mean the good ol' boys who rightly stick to their guns, and bristle at the thought of the federal government ripping up the Constitution? The ones who are belittled and treated like court jesters for the amusement of the elite, who live in places ravaged by economic turmoil and debt? Or do you mean the good ol' boys who live in the midwestern suburban sprawl, working nine to five at jobs they hate, carrying out mind numbing tasks from a corporate hierarchy that refuses to acknowledge employees are more than tools and refuses to be seen in a place as 'ignorant' as the mid-west? The good ol' boys that just want to be left alone, to not have someone constantly snooping through their communications and looming just over the horizon, ready to take what they've worked so hard for for business interests under imminent domain? Tell me Dave, I'd like to know. If I forgot someone, please point them out to me, but in my defense, it was rambling a touch.
Exactly. The non-brainwashed.They know it is government that is the first target. I believe you are one who perceptively sees and correctly identifies many of the issues. You could surely school me on the details of those things. So, tell me why is it exactly you want to give strength to a group that will likely end up DISCREDITING public opposition to, and disfavor of situations such as those you've mentioned?.... a group that intentionally steers clear of the main true targets more responsible for these things?...... a "movement" germinated in the minds of some of the most evil, manipulative, power-hungry souls who frolic with the very powers these useful underlings have been trained to act out this charade, this diversion, against?.....WHY?
What're we trying to accomplish? Change the system, change America. Pretty simple.
MLK saw an unfair situation and worked for improved rights of black america. OWS sees an unfair situation where corporations have bought and paid for our country, we want the power given back to us. We the People.
please read&share: http://www.mosesbaca.blogspot.com
But you don't have the dream.
I do. The resurrection of the American Dream.
Nice!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs
I agree. The 99% look like children and will be treated as such until we get it together. This doesn't take away from the people who have decided to stand up for themselves and this country, but we need a new vision to unite behind.
We need a better strategy and plan of attack Wall Street is not the cause, it is a SYMPTOM!
JOIN THE REVOLUTION Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( www.revolution2.osixs.org )
FIGHT THE CAUSE - NOT THE SYMPTOM We don’t have to live like this. "Spread the News"
THEY are getting scared so THEY are using intense tactics. I've never been so hated by a select few before in my life. It's actually really scary. Some of them wish death upon the protesters and people that can't afford health insurance that get serious injuries. That's really scary to think about. That is 100% prejudice. Think about it... they have places WE can't afford to go to. What is this? The black drinking fountain and the white drinking fountain? THEY make their money off the backs of their employees. Why does the CEO get the majority portion of the money when it's the construction workers that are building EVERYTHING? 1 CEO gets 10,000,000 compared to the 30,000 the WORKER gets? The CEO made phone calls and put on a suit and talked to some guys on the phone. The WORKER put his blood and sweat in his work and created something that didn't exist before.
uhm.. Dr. King was not a movement, he was a person.
Also, the Civil Rights Movement began with the Montgomery Bus Boycott. A protest.
The Civil Rights was filled with people that made it a movement. Martin Luther King had a dream. And other people saw it too. That's why this MOVEMENT has gone from New York to countries around the world.
Campaign Finance Reform.
End the Fed.
Oh and pass this bill.
National Emergency Employment Defense Act of 2011
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.2990.IH:
End the Bush tax cuts
Restore true capitalism. Jail those responsible for fraud. Jail those responsible for sending out tainted products that kill people. A fine is not acceptable for death.
End the "Patriot Act"
STOP THE GOVERNMENT FROM INFRINGING ON OUT RIGHTS
If you would honestly like to know more, I will answer questions. Just please don't turn out to be a person that just comes here to hate.
Yeah, but what is the dream of this movement? Martin Luther King wanted to see equality. What does this "movement" want to see exactly?
Well I already said that in my first comment. But I can say it again in only 2 parts to simplify it.
I want to see this bill passed
H.R. 2990 National Emergency Employment Defense Act of 2011
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.2990.IH:
End campaign financing and create a public option so politicians can't accept legal bribery to pass laws and accept legislation drafted by lobbyists, unions, and corporate interests. Return the power to the people. The people like you and me.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
-Sincerely the Declaration of Independence
Freedom, justice, equality and equity are nothing if they are not a conspiracy of purpose. And, while purpose does not have to be defined in order to be realised; it has to be realised in order to be defined. As we realise the purpose of the Occupy Movement and what we are fit for, resistance and protest must not yield to the listlessness of a leaderless movement. For it is a fact that even a leaderless movement needs more than a heart in order to get ahead. - mocracy's blog.erace-inc.com
If you are not having fit, maybe it is because your interest are aligned with those of the 1% even though your bank account may not be...... good luck with your capitalist lottery ticket...but remember only a few can win...that is the nature of the system...we are at 9+ percent unemployment trying to get to what signals a healthy capitalist economy 4%...are you willing to be part of that 4% if it means reviving the economy. - mocracy
I fear that if we do not take a stand on something, our movement will become irrelevant. Possibly even a joke. I also feel that is that happens, the next time we decide to take a stand on something, we will not be taken seriously at all.
Yes, it's a movement that isn't moving anywhere.
good comment. what's needed is a cohesive, united movement that captures the zeitgeist... a sort of umbrella that takes in the disparate points of view and offers a tangible alternative. you remember the power of the peace sign? you could do worse than start with a new symbol that means something like: "i care about mankind and the world my children will inherit." you could back this with a re-appraisal of the political-social-economic model and change the focus to our wellbeing. in fact such a movement exist and it's growing - check out tocamu.com - here's a lik to the summary but there's so much more there if this interest you: http://www.tocamu.com/?page_id=4001
Do you have no foresight for the possibility of the future? You think MLK just marched into DC a few days after deciding to speak up? Besides, this movement is different in that one leader is replaced by many, every one there, in theory, has a voice.
boycott capitalism, force change...
http://wesower.org
This is a tantrum!
[Removed]
Before commenting on Occupy, why not learn what it is? Follow my crash course for Occupy newbies.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-for-newbies-starting-points/
With over $750,000 in their possession, "the 99%" is now the 1%.
You're kidding, right? The 1% is not millionaires, it's not even billionaires, it is people who make billions EVERY SINGLE YEAR. They control Congress, they control the Supreme Court, the FDA, the Pharmasuticals, everything. They are so rich that we literally cannot fathom. They are slave drivers, and corrupt law loophole creators.
It astonishes me how easily people throw around the 1% to mean anyone who is wealthier than they are. That is ignorant.
Amen! there is no real end goal in this at this point, it is simply turning into an anarchist get together at this point.
Unimaginative troll. Delete!
your mother's a tantrum
I think many of you just need to get a job. I don't think you are bad people. Im up right now because Im completing my work. I make about 150k a year, but its through hard work, luck, experience and what I have in my head. I earn every dollar of it. Now I want to see you guys earn every dollar too. You will not improve yourself sitting in a camp somewhere. You need to take personal responsibility for yourselves. Im here to provide that "second voice" and I hope you can see that.
Good description.
Theyre spoiled but flush with cash. We're making a killing out here.