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Forum Post: Thirty-Two Trillion Hidden In Offshore Accounts!

Posted 1 year ago on April 4, 2013, 6:03 p.m. EST by GypsyKing (9780)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

208 Comments

208 Comments


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[-] 8 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

These people have literally stolen a decent living from the majority of Americans. Wake up people!

[+] -4 points by Nationwide (-93) 1 year ago

How?

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

By running off with the fruits of their labor, for starters.

[+] -5 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

But , it's their money to choose to with as they are entitled to. How does putting it offshore impact other peoples "decent living"? What they are LEGALLY doing is sheltering their money from the IRS. There are no " loopholes" in the tax code,......it is what it is.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Oh no, you don't. The money that the wealthy and corporations have hoarded over the past 4 decades is money the American people earned with their blood, sweat and tears. Low wages and high prices, regulations that favor the wealthy and corporations including banks, have ripped off the American people from earning a decent living.

It's going to backfire on them though, as they discover that when the American people have no disposable income and no more credit to continue charging their lives on, because they can no longer make the minimum payments, they'll stop buying their s--t. So, good luck to them as the U.S. makes a transition from a consumer society to one that maybe, hopefully has more meaning.

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

No one is forced to spend their money on anything that wealthy people produce. Are you forced to buy a computer? smart phone? go to a movie?

[-] 4 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Advertising is mind control. There is no opposing viewpoint to not buy. It's completely one sided.

If you lived in the Soviet Union in the 50's, what would you call the one sided political propaganda? A public service or brainwashing? When you make a decision based on that information, will you make a free choice?

The fact is most American's don't think for themselves, they repeat what they've been conditioned to think.

Example: How are people constantly referred to in the media? Consumers, Taxpayers, Workers, and Voters. We become those objects and do as we're told by the media.

What we need to understand is that we are human beings first and nothing more.

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Is your mind that weak? Who pays attention to ads? When i have on the T.V. I am usually reading. and if I am not reading and an ad comes on, I change the channel. Same with magazines ( I get a few) , I skip the ads.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

The American people have been brainwashed into becoming consumers first and human beings second. You don't even realize this because you are embedded in this. There are some very good documentaries about how Americans were literally brainwashed through advertising in the early part of the 20th century. "Century of the Self." Watch them. Here's the link:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-century-of-the-self/

[+] -4 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

You don't know me . You certainly have no idea of what I choose to spend money on.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Did I ever say that I did? It kinda bothers you doesn't it that perhaps your government is not as wonderful as you think it is. You see, this is not about you personally. Or me. We're a country of 300 million people. It's about the masses of people who deserve better.

[-] 5 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

I am humbled by your endless patience in really trying to connect - in spite of the relentless efforts of those who offer nothing but resistance - I wish I was capable of doing the same.

You are awesome beautifulworld. That is a very over-used expression, but in your case it is truely warrented.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Thanks, GK, for your kind words, and especially, for this excellent post. It proves that they are lying when they say there is not enough money. There is plenty of damn money. Liars.

I can't help but agree with quantumystic below who says "i say we seize it all."

IF our government is truly to promote the general welfare of the people, it would do just that.

[-] 5 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Yes, the whole monitary system, as far as I can see, simply functions to separate people from access to the overabundance produced by new technology and hyper-modern mass production.

There is far more than the world's people need. The scarcity, the poverty, really does not exist in the world itself, and the means to make human life sustainable at a confortable level is currently available. The scarcity, the poverty, is not a fact of existance on earth in the current context so much as a fact of the human psyche, and of the human soul.

Gotta go again. Hasta la vista:)

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Bottom line: There is plenty to go around. Share people!!!!!

Thanks, GK, for this great thread.

[+] -5 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Do the masses of people ever bother to educate themselves about something other than pop culture? Do they care?

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Gee, I wonder how they got that way? Watch "Century of the Self." I gave you the link. You don't realize that that is how TPTB want it, do you?

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

TPTB? Years ago I worked on Madison Ave.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

I worked a block over on Park Avenue. LOL. So, join us. Occupy Wall Street.

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

You are right about ads not effecting grownups as much, but that is why most ads, television in general, is geared to the youth. The most despicable thing I've heard ad companies do is hire psychologists to come up with nifty ways to get children to nag their parents into buying them different goods. The "nag factor" has been utilized many times to get parents to part with their wages on consumer goods. Thank goodness for teeVo. No?

You make it seem that those who ask for better wages are just being greedy. Though you might be right that a single, minimum wage worker could survive if he cut out all the luxuries in life, it is unconscionable for a family to be asked to live under such stressful conditions. I'd love to one day have children but because of the low wages companies are paying, I don't believe that children are in my future.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Have you thought about being a foster parent?

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 1 year ago

Would DCFS be wise to give a child to someone who makes less than ten dollars an hour? But I do get your point.

[-] -1 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

I believe the govt does pay money to help you out . I have no idea how much money is involved.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

of course "the govt does pay money to help you out"
it keeps your capital gains tax low
it builds roads for your chauffer
it pays a military to protect you

[-] 0 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

I was talking about foster care,...........you knew that but had to post what you did anyway.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Who pays attention to the ads? The corporations don't spend billions of dollars on them for no return on their investment.

Look around you. I would bet almost every item you own has a name brand label on it.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

The things I have, I have had for years,..............decades, and that includes clothes. I buy things that are on sale and use coupons.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Great! But you can save even more by buying used, generic, in bulk, local, repaired or made yourself.

Curious, if you don't pay attention to ads, how do you know about sales or coupons?

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

I do go to stores and am able to see if things are on sale, as for coupons my spouse takes care of that.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Right. I should live without a computer or cell phone and I should never attend a freaking movie. I should live in abject poverty. Thanks so much. I am aware that we are turning into a third world nation. Job well done.

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Your're whining. Who knew that not having a computer or smart phone or not going to a movie equaled "abject poverty"? By the way, while I do have a computer ( an old one at that) I have a very basic ( cheap) cell phone and never go to the movies.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Oh, so do I. I'm far from materialistic. My cell phone is about 15 years old. I've actually been thinking today that maybe this economic hardship will be a good thing in the end. The rich and corporations will be wiped out and we'll all go back to living more simply and locally. Maybe we'll even read poetry again and focus on the things that really matter.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, like our health, and the well-being of our friends and children.

I know plenty of people who don't have phone/web/movie money.

Quite happy to go on with the life they grew up with. Beach, swimming, playing with their grandkids.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Exactly. They're going to force us back to that, and it might not be a bad thing. And, we'll take them down in the process. LOL.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I think their plans are a lot more sinister than that, BW.

Depopulation is an essential part of their agenda.

I'm more concerned of imminent global pandemics, the closer we get to financial meltdown. They have the means already.

I really hope that I'm wrong about this.

Global famine is another distinct possibility.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

You may be right. If we begin to localize our lives now we might be able to overcome this or at least survive it.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yes, and whatever you do, don't take the immunisations they offer you, and get yourself a really good personal water filter. The best out there is the Katadyn pocket. 13,000 gallons between filter replacements.

Remember, these people are using religious dogma. They are clearly narcissistic, and would feel even more god-like enacting the last days as outlined in the new Testament.

Famine, pestilence, water running red as blood. The seven horsemen of the Apocalypse. The whole box and dice. If they can control us with biblical fear, they'll do anything to maintain control.

Hell, that sounds grim, but we are clearly up against psychopaths. Ruthless criminals, at the least.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Psychopaths for sure. Only psychopaths would live in so much pathological fear that they would hoard money and be so unwilling to share fairly with others.

And, immunizations literally killed my dog. The vet, who I stupidly trusted, gave the little guy 4 shots in one day and he got kidney failure almost immediately. The vet took the money for the shots though and never apologized. Creep.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

If you want to live simply you can do that right now. Disengage. What prevents you from reading poetry now?

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

LOL! I'm not prevented, but the parents who work 50/60 hours a week at minimum wage jobs are. You have no empathy do you? You cannot put yourself in the shoes of those who suffer. You possess blind nationalism that prevents you from seeing what is wrong with your nation. A very dangerous thing.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

First it was about you, now its about everyone you feel is suffering at the hands of the system. I did not grow up with much in the way of money , I did have to 2 parents who us the greatest of gifts, they gave of themselves. my parents worked, but the free time they had they spent with us ( 3 kids) . We had a good life because my parents cared enough to give us one, and it wasnt about things.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

What I don't suffer personally, I suffer in my heart for others. I feel other people's pain. I don't gloat over my own successes and I wish for the best for ALL people. I am never going to understand how we can allow the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few while other people suffer and struggle.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

You can call them "loopholes" or "the rich got the law that they paid for"

[+] -5 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

How have they stolen it?

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

How did they get that money?

[+] -7 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Worked for it. Are you jealous? Envious?

[-] 9 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

They did not work for it. That is the biggest joke. The workers worked for it but didn't get paid properly. It's not jealousy. That is the shame game you people try to play. The only lazy entitled people in this country are the wealthy and corporations that have bought the government and controlled it to the point that the laws and regulations all work in their favor. No worries, though. It's backfiring big time.

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I think you both have a point. There is no doubt that the nation is run fascist, and is screwing those who are trying to come up. The game is rigged, and there isnt anything being done to fix it, its getting worse.

That being said, our entire nation needs to take a look in the mirror and accept some blame in this. Our spending habits are out of control, our priorities are fucked, and anyone who have been on facebook for a minute realizes this nation is a nation now of "me's" not a nation of "we's".

There is no excuse for what the elites have been doing, and they should be put in prison for it. There is also nothing stopping us from doing what it takes to make our points to them, but we cannot get out of our own way long enough to make it happen.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

In the end, the consumerist society is what the elite wanted. Ever watch "The Century of the Self" documentaries? It's scary stuff about how the American people were conditioned to become consumers in the early and middle parts of the 20th century. I totally get your point though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prTarrgvkjo

[+] -4 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Athletes make milllions, they work for it, movie stars make millions, they work for it.

[-] 13 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Look. America cannot, simply cannot, be made up of 300 million millionaire entrepreneurs. We must get back to respecting the worker, the backbone of this nation. There is no shame in working for a living. There is shame in hoarding money and forcing other people to go into debt in order to live so that you can make more and more "profit." Profit for what, might I ask? What is the purpose of the hoarding of money overseas? What do they need it for? What good is it doing for civilization?

[+] -6 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

I do not understand how "hoarding money" forces other people into debt. What a person does with their money is their business. What you do with your money is your business.

[-] 8 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

How you got that money is everyone's business. We need an economic system that works for ALL people, not just capitalists. We need to value labor in a humane way so that everyone gets a decent amount of the profit and can earn a decent living.

The average income for Americans is $26,000 per year. The average income for Americans over the age of 65 is $20,000 per year. Really? This is the country you want to live in?

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Honestly, by the time someone is 65, ideally they have managed to get something set up over the past 47 years that they have been an adult.

500 per week for one retired person who probably doesnt need a whole lot, besides medical care, sounds pretty decent.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

I think the fact that it sounds good to you shows what bad shape we're in as a whole.

[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Perhaps that is true...

[+] -5 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

No, how you earned your money is your own business. The system works,...........many people do not.

[-] 9 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

No. That is a myth. A very immoral myth, at that. The American worker must shed the shame that has been bestowed on him by the likes of you. Livelihoods have been taken away through an economic system rigged for the wealthy and corporations. The only shame belongs to those who have exploited the labor of others. Low wages and high unemployment are only the shame of a failed economic and political system bought and paid for by the wealthy and corporations. We're on to you now and we're spreading the word. The American people are beginning to wake up and realize that they are not failures, they've been robbed.

[+] -5 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

You're on to me? Laughable.

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Good grief, by you I mean the wealthy and corporations, not you in particular.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (21440) 1 year ago

Please! LOL!

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Generally speaking, they make their millions by distracting the public from more critical issues at hand.

Once upon a time, real acting and drama were used to educate the public on crucial political issues, such as in the cases of Shakespeare and Schiller.

Similarly, sports should be something that should encourages people to get fit themselves, rather than to just sit on the couch and drink beer.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

what people to to entertain themselves is their business. even with shakespeare, not all his plays were politcal in nature. and so what if some people sit and watch sports ? it's their lives. I dont watch sports, I find them boring, but I would never criticize anyone for doing so.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

If people are "dumbed down" by the media to the point where they can't protect their own interests, its all of our business. Media, that is propaganda, is a weapon, and it has been used as a weapon against us for quite some time now.

[-] 0 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

I agree that people are being purposely dumbed down. And, it starts in the schools.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I would agree with that as well, "education" is being used as a weapon against us.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I was taught to read before I went to school.

I was also taught to question everything.

My father's fave saying was, "Believe half of what you see, none of what you hear, and the only good thing to come out of a newspaper is fish and chips."

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Sounds like you received a good education from your parents. I had to learn to question everything on my own.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

From below, my sisters might have doted on me, like in playtime, teaching me things, helping me out, but when it came to getting what you wanted, we were all in competition.

There were no easy handouts in our family. We had to work for anything we wanted.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26125) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - maturity - as in caring fully for others as one would have for ones self. Takes time and teaching - not a concept fully understood by most of the young. It is a concept that is understood - as better for all - as one matures and learns how to think beyond one's self.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I have four older sisters who doted on me in my toddler years.

Plus, being in a big family, you learned fast, or went without.

Reading was big back then; no TV, ipod/pad/, and music came on vinyl discs at a dollar a pop.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

What do you mean you learned fast or went without? Surely your doting sisters would not have deprived you of anything.

I think that most of the books published these days are propaganda. More independent writings can be found on the internet, but you certainly have to think critically about it.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

50% of working Americans make less than $13 an hour. 75% make less than $24 an hour. What happened to the so called middle class?

http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2011

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

A great chart for reference, another thing from looking at it, 95% of people pay Social Security tax on 100% of their income of a combined 4.5 trillion while 5% pay no SS tax on about 1.8 trillion, while the top 5% may only be taking about 25% on the annual income, the affects of it over time allows them to own about 80% of the wealth, as I recall.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

This table only includes income from wages. The U.S. had a $15 trillion economy in 2011, but these statistics only account for $6 trillion of income. The wealthy make up to 2/3rds of their income from other sources such as business income, dividends, and capital gains. So the SS tax you mention plus other payroll tax contributions from the wealthy are relatively small.

Here's another nice graph. Interactive too!

http://stateofworkingamerica.org/who-gains/#/?start=1968&end=2008

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

It may be slightly larger than wages as it refers to income subject to income tax as well in one place for instance I am uncertain how it would treat the income Romney and others running hedge funds receive when they call it dividends for tax proposes even though it is labor that was invested not capital, most people call that wages and pay a much higher tax rate but those that work at hedge funds call it carried forward interest as if they had put something at risk themselves.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The SS table only counts wages, it doesn't include any capital gains, business income, and dividends at all. About $9 trillion in income isn't counted.

The other graph gives a more accurate view of overall income because it's based on IRS records that include all income sources.

[-] -1 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

How have people who put their earned money in legal offshore accounts stolen that money?

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

When a wealthy man uses his money to buy legislation to benefit his business at the expense of others, is he a thief?

[-] 10 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

When a wealthy man uses his money to buy legislation to benefit his business at the expense of others, is he a thief?

he is below a thief ..... a thief takes risk...

the rich or connected who use their advantage to harm others .... is the lowest on the food chain

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I would contend that he is human, who among us will pull our punches if we are fighting for the future of our children?

It is not expecting saints to arise we must depend, but it is the writing of the rules that we must address ourselves to.

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

wrong... if he was interested in the future of his children... he would not use his advantage to reap destruction of the economy..... he would use it to better the live's of everyone

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

You disagree with his assessment; I disagree with his ability to impose it.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

Still you are trapped in transference, the question is not about "him" but you. If your aim is to have better leaders or just more benevolent rich people I am afraid you will be forever disappointed, better to support a set of rules that do not depend on the good nature of people to be fair and ensure a survival-able system.

[-] 3 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 1 year ago

factsrfun,..... the redistribution of wealth into the hands of a very few .... is what world wars & civil wars are made from .... which do not help anyone's children

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

I like that -- we need a better, survivable system that works for everyone.

Better pay for all, a job for all able persons, standards for health, food, shelter.

EDIT I don't see OBama or either party working towards these more basic system changes.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

That's a very pessimistic viewpoint, not that I don't see how you could get there, it's just that if truly no one is even trying, that's a bad place to be in. I prefer to think that many try in their way but the path is tough and the power aligned against a more equitable and therefore survival-able system are great so progress is slow.

I do believe the stakes are very high right now and that the wealthy have dedicated warriors in the GOP and giving any ground at all to them is inviting near permanent slavery for most Americans. This budget crisis that the GOP ensured in 2001 when doing nothing would have resulted in the debt being paid in full by now, but instead they slashed taxes, will be their excuse to raid the pension fund to fund their future useless wars. So while I fight fiercely for every seat I am not sure you feel the same.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

I agree with what you said, and ourviewpoints may be equally pessimistic.

We must defeat the oligarchs, repubs.

But we must also make plans for long term.

We need an OWS Powell Doctrine.

Because ofchanges in the global structure, the world economy, advances in technology, corporations shipping jobs overseas to maximize profits and squeeze labor (all of us), now employers do not need as many workers as before. We better begin ponder what to do with all the underemployed in the world, retraining, green tech, local agriculture, health care, elder care, or you'll be supporting them for eternity. I vote for on the job training.

Doesn't every person need basics items, or are some people not deserving, if able and willing to work, to have a job, shelter, food, medical. Everyone on the planet deserves a better, sustainable system that works for all. Better pay for all, a job for all able persons, standards for health, food, shelter. I don't see OBama or either party working towards these more basic system changes. Are my politicians asking these questions, or do they prefer we squabble amonst ourselves, and ignore the big picture.

Now there is money sitting in offshore banks, we could utilize any ill gotten money to,establish a Peoples global lending institution, to further goals of sustainable planet, meeting human needs.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

That's one idea that worthy of further investigation. A nonprofit Peoples global lending institution, to further goals of sustainable planet, meeting human needs.

The corps are global. We should think global. There may not be traditional profit, except the betterment of our fellow man. We're not making anything in regular bank or stock market, they're just exacting fees and profits.

All loans to local sustainable Projects for individuals, or community systems.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

I would think there would have to be much wider support before a doctrine would be in order, I have pointed out several times but will repeat that 54% of VA voters thought wealth inequality a major problem, not exactly a hot bed of communism. The GOP at it's core stands for the interest of the wealthy it is the one thing they all agree on it is the one thing they will not budge on, if OWS hangs that fact around their neck effectively the GOP will shrink like a tumor exposed to CBD. (that's fast in case you don't know). Given that most all elections in America are "winner take all" in that the one who receives the most votes in each geographical area wins, As a result the top two candidates will always recieve the attention/votes if one of those is not a member of the GOP we are much more likely to get a Bernie Sanders in fact when the GOP gets smal enough we will most likely get a whole new Party. I don't really see any other way of bringing down the current system.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

Woops we've run out of replies.... Reagan and air traffic controllers arose from Powell doctrine http://www.thwink.org/sustain/articles/017_PowellMemo/index.htm

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

The Camber has long been an enemy of working people yet they have gone for the most part un-noticed. Here in AZ it was the Camber that first began the court assault on our public funding for elections, it was so popular that no politician would have their hands on the attack itself though the GOP has worked as best they can to weaken it through bills.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

Well we are getting our asses kicked historically! The middle class, by a well funded, united buch of schemers bent on global domination, and yes, the GOP is a tool in that.

It would be a blueprint or a plan for people to unify behind, maybe such as a declaration.

I'm sure someone with inclination may see a need, and of course defeat of the oligarchs lackeys, the GOP, the anti middle class, would be a key element.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

A great deal can be traced to 1981-82 and the air traffic controllers and Reagan, the right created this reality, but it need not be this way.

[-] 1 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

Woops we've run out of replies....

Reagan and air traffic controllers arose from Powell doctrine http://www.thwink.org/sustain/articles/017_PowellMemo/index.htm

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Most humans will look out for #1 first. Many here have proven it, time and time again. We are our own worst enemy.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Do you think that attitude comes from our consumerist programming?

Keeping up with the Jones's?

I have found that the most genuine people are the one's who have nothing left to lose.

I also know that I'm at my happiest when everything I need is in a pack on my back.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

You're a free spirit Builder. I like that, but I can see at least two other people here didn't

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Or just the one deluded soul, Odin.

I don't sweat the little things.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

No, it had to be 2 ds's, and I could only comensate for one

And no i do not "sweat little things either" as being a kindred 'free spirit,' that is also part of my secret identity which of course, one does not disclose on here

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Without a doubt that is part of it. But, that being said, its the consumerist ones that are taking over the planet, so while some others may not be as guilty, they are being taken out via survival of the fittest in a very raw sense.

[-] 5 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

The consumerist is trained early, and the culture of consumerism is firmly ingrained, and expands to seek money for goods. Even parents put expectations that their child will be a success, which means economically prosperous, even despite glimpses that is not for the greatest good, we are not encouraged to see the downside of our consumption.

In words of GypsyKing...

"To see the necessity of this path all we must do is admit what any astute observer of human nature will confess all too readily –  that when the chips are down most people, most of the time, will choose immediate self-interest ahead of conscience without a moments hesitation.  It is in this that we must change, and we must minimize the positve reinforcement of this selfish approach in others, in the realization that we are now truely all in this together, and that in allowing others to indulge their egos and selfishness we do them no favor, but merely perpetuate a dysfunctional and unenlightened paradigm that undermines us All.  The world is more deeply interconnected then ever brfore, and we must transform our understanding of ourselves to meet this realization, in order for All to suvive and prosper.

Non-cooperation with evil on the levels of family, community, and society must become the new social norm . . . and here we are entering unaccustomed terrain.   All the great advancements in modern technology that we have come to rely upon to solve our problems will not avail us to one degree when it comes to this question.  We can’t leave this decision to the “experts,” or to anyone aside from ourselves; for while the struggle for freedom, truth, and spiritual transcendence requires commitment – all that is required for the advent of tyranny and its resulting destruction to prevail is for us to evade the question.  In our apathy and inaction the Darwinian roots of human nature will assert themselves and prevail . . . and so first and foremost we must change ourselves to change the world.". http://gypsyking1.wordpress.com/

How do we change our nature and habit, and accustom to relative luxuries, remains the challenge.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

A challenge it is indeed. Some would say its impossible.

In regards of how long until we wreck the planet or this country turns into utter chaos, chances are changing a culture is much much much longer than what we have.

Especially when no one really wants to change.

[-] 3 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

This article suggests people can learn and change when faced with necessity

http://www.des.ucdavis.edu/faculty/Richerson/CultEvolcoopPTRSB.pdf

[-] 3 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

We may just need to leave USA to save our planet and souls, conscience.. My daughter told me two years back, money is root of all evil.

now I think her family of 3 gets by on 5 bucks a day. Less goods, more real, practical concerns. There is still big family, and generosity and gift economy often bigger than peso economy

[-] 1 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Money itself is not " evil".The correct quote is "The want of money is the root of all evil".

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

Money is as well utilized to control and manipulate, especially when you need more than you can earn, to provide expenses and necessities, and go into debt for this, and to belive your duty of being a good participant in "supporting the economy that supports us all", as we are encouraged periodically by officials. So what else can be done except pay day loan, cycle of always being behind.

So because we can't survive too well without it these days, we want it.

Used to manipulate through fines for breaking the rules.

As well when you need it for medical necessity of self or family member, and to give roof and heat.

the need of it as a device to get necessities was highlighted by the mission of jesus, that people have basic needs of food, clothing, and money can be an obstacle to necessities.

Some cultures think charge of interest is not good, but evil.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

I see consumerists as being too dependent to survive a month away from "convenience" foods. They are setting themselves up to be slaves. I wonder how many will resort to cannabilism, despite a pretence at being civilised.

[+] -4 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Prob the vast majority. Things fall apart. And Im not sure if there has ever been an empire as out of control as our ruling elite. Combine that with a populace that has about half of the basic skills that people did in the Great Depression, and I think its going to be really ugly eventually.

And I hate to say it, but people are going to wish they had a lot of guns in their houses. I have some peeps in NO. Katrina was no joke. And it was scary.

Now imagine there is no outside help to come in, because every city in in the middle of it too.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Was going to mention how things panned out in NO.

Despite the media blackout, a couple of Aussies who were there kept updating their blogs about it all. They were holed up in the French quarter, giving us a running report along with photos.

Remember seeing footage of "looters" who were coloured, and "survivors" who were white, doing exactly the same thing. The veneer of civilised behaviour falls away quite quickly when it's dog eat dog. I'd be getting as far away from everyone else as I can.

Locking yourself inside, guns or not, seems like a dead-end street to me.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26125) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thief? Perhaps. Asshole - Greedy Asshole - You Bet.

And those legislators who accept the money/bribe for the legislation to support that Greedy Asshole? Criminals - Traitors to society.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

I vote yes on this issue.

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Ask Immelt. Ask Buffet.

[-] 4 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Let's ask Jack Abramoff. He was right in the middle of it. He pled guilty to corrupting government officials. As a very influential lobbyist, he knows exactly what was really happening behind the closed doors of Congress. Here's the interview from 60 minutes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57319075/jack-abramoff-the-lobbyists-playbook/

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

I'm asking you.

[+] -4 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

I dont judge.

[-] 8 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

You don't judge?

You don't judge, you little lickspittle?

You judge the poor as being poor because they're lazy, and all the lazy capitalists as being hard workers. Oh, you judge alright - just in a lazy-minded self-serving manner - like most sociopaths who want to justify getting whatever they want at somebody else's expense.

You don't know shit about the real world.

[+] -4 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Please cite where I said that ALL poor people were lazy. Please cite where I said that ALL capitalists were hard workers. Also, you confuse opinion with judgement.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

The choice to let courage lead, or fear to hinder your understanding is up to you.

Decide on the facts alone.

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Immelt ( who was obamas economic council, and was a big done ) , headed up GE. They paid no taxes. Is Immelt a thief or are his accountants?

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

GE wrote off losses from it's GE capital mortgage division due to the financial meltdown in 2008. That's the problem when just one side of the facts are presented.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558#.UV9VSjcW41I

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Collusion between banks and regulating agencies of all types for all business for decades. Lots of violations of regulation, code and law, but no detection or no penalty. The corporate veil is the fist layer of secrecy, then a couple layers like this, that end up offshore.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Nothing prevents you from putting your earned money in a legal offshore account.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Maybe we shouldn't have legal offshore accounts at all.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Then change the tax code and make them illegal.

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Ok. Why don't we allow the American people to vote on this issue? I believe they should be illegal and I suspect a majority of Americans would agree with me.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26125) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Off-shore tax havens - "ARE" Illegal. The money is supposed to be reported and taxes paid on it.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

The only reason they're legal is for the secrecy. What gives them an advantage of having money in offshore acoounts as opposed to having the accounts here in this country? Seriously, are there any significant advantages to offshore accounts that pass the smell test?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (26125) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

They are not legal ( tax havens ).

In the age of electronic money - there is no advantage to having an off-shore account other then to hide money.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Yep, technology makes off-shore accounts unnecessary and useless, except to hide money or to avoid taxes. We should wonder why they continue to exist.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago
[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

You would have to research on how the tax code can be changed.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

I would prefer to tell Washington to change the tax code as part of their job. They should be solving this obvious problem.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

To many contributors benefit from the problem.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

Too bad for them. Equality trumps their privilege. Solve the fairness problem concerning taxation asap.

[-] -1 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Does anyone , even acountants, fully understand the current tax code?

[-] 2 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

"Complexity Breeds Fraud"! The people working for us in Washington can and should simplify the tax code. Otherwise, people will continue to speculate that the tax code gives advantages to some, but not all. An inequality that can be changed.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

The tax code is what it is. Get a clever accountant and you too can game the system.

[-] 1 points by windyacres (1002) 1 year ago

The "is what it is," part is the reason I'm on this forum. The tax code must first and foremost be fair, and as simple as possible.

When someone games the system better than you do, and you become a loser, you may feel differently, and it may be too late.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Gaming the system isn't limited to taxes, it also encompasses welfare, unemployment, food stamps, foster care, medicaid, medicare, etc. In short , anything that's linked to making money off the govt .

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Unconstitutional courts prevent me from having money and a lot more.

Which is more important, my freedom to bank offshore, or my constitutional rights in civil court?

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Please explain how the court system prevents you from having any money?

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Imagine you are defrauded and the court refuses to recognize the artifice of fraud used to create deals that law does not support. Instead only hearing that the law does not support the deal.

Judges revising court reporter transcripts, clerks refusing to stamp pleadings as "FILED", notice for continuance after the continued hearing. Secret revision of district court rules. Just a few little mechanisms I've seen used.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

What was your business?

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Those are the experiences of other unfortunate Americans I've read about. If you are interested I can try and re find the link.

I'm trying to understand how to avoid any interaction outside of a deeper agreement pre-empting all that BS if possible.

The notion that life is all about the stuff that media exploits needs to change. Those exploitations create the greed that needs to stuff symbols of false value into offshore accounts.

The stuff that makes families strong and safe with independence generation and generation is what I'd like to focus on.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

You said that unconstitutional courts prevented YOU from having any money.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

In trying to understand how I was deprived of rights in court related to fraud, I found much worse violations of others rights in similar situations.

It bothers me when I see any American deprived of a right by any court.

[-] -1 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Bothers me too.

[-] 5 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

i say we seize it all.

[+] -5 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

You have no legal right to do that.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

legal right? wtf is that? ha ha ha ha there is no law anymore. i am going to steal from the rich and give it to the poor.

[+] -4 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Robin Hood stole the money from the king that the king and taken in taxes from the people and gave it back to them. He did not take money from the people and redistribute it.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

i am not robin hood.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

If tax evasion can be proven, penalties will be paid.

Oh, sorry; that's what happens in a country with a just and fair legal system.

[-] 3 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

Hahaha uh. OUCH

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Yeah, the truth can be painful. ><

[-] 4 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

I am convinced now that this is but the tip of the iceberg. This is but the catalyst of revelations that will reveal an underworld that has kept whole nations in poverty!

For the last forty years, as productivity has increased almost exponentially, due to high technology and the streamlining of the production process, wages have decresed. Somehow during this whole time of Unprecidented growth in wealth, there has never been ANY increase in the standard of living for any significant number of the world's people.

This is it! This is international! This is the mechanism through which we have all been robbed of a livable and sustainable world. . . As a student of economics I have always known that this exists, simply because It had to exist. The wealth generated by the means outlined above has simply had to exist - SOMEWHERE!!!!!!

This 32 trillion must necessarily then just be the tip of the iceberg - the mere trail that leads us to the pot of gold, and to the criminals who stole it! Events will unfold!!!!

I'm sorry, I simply couldn't refrain from posting THIS - even though I've tried (unsuccessfully, LOL) to bow out here and as a result been accused of being a "flouncer," and an attention seeker, and I don't know what all. Yet thanks to these courageous investigative journalists (who I didn't even know existed!) we finally have them by the throat, and I wanted to share that moment, that excitement!!!!!!

Thank God, such is still the power of truth and of the written word!!!!!!!

Hallelluja!!!!!!!!

Socrates Lives!!!!!!!!!!!

Go at um, boys and girls!!!!!!!!! . . . And forgive me if I exult! Ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!!!!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GK

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

And then we give billions in tax breaks for corps to send our jobs overseas

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151530994679313&set=a.167625009312.110920.67626834312&type=1&theater

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

This nation, and world, are just Drowning in corruption.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Outrageous, depressing, and motivating.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Just heard this on MSM. Hard to believe vut it istrue. FYI.

Also, related and FYI

Robin hood tax rally

http://robinhoodtax.org/get-involved

[-] 2 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Buffy closes the Hellmouth http://www.prairie2.com/2013/04/buffy-closes-hellmouth.html

Ever heard of 'The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists'? Using information that must have come from something akin to the 'Anonymous' hackers (or maybe the NSA) they have begun to reveal the rampant tax evasion of the wealthy.

The first articles based on a cache of 2.5 million files were published Thursday (today), laying bare the secrets of more than 120,000 offshore entities, including your basic shell corporations and legal structures known as trusts, that have been used to hide the finances of politicians (Mitt Romney?), crooks, drug smugglers, dictators and others from more than 170 nations.

Economists studying international banking reports have estimated the money involved in 'tax haven' banking at between 20 and 30 trillion dollars. This could be a low estimate according to the information coming out today.

At least eleven Americans are already facing jail time for activities linked to this sort of shadow banking. It appears to be the tip of the iceberg, (as if you were surprised), but the demons of the night are being dragged out into the light of day, and they don't like that burning sensation. @BruceEnberg on Twitter.com

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (26125) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It would be really interesting to find out how much of that money was originally sent to Countries as aid for their people.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago
[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 1 year ago

This is why Romney would not release his tax returns he did not want Americans to see how the rich pay (or don't pay) taxes.

Hillary Clinton spoke about this before retiring, http://www.cnbc.com/id/49150934 we are quickly returning to world wide Monarchy the modern kingdoms are mountains of capital assets that the little people depend on running for their daily bread while the King takes the profits for His offspring. The New Kingdoms are arising right beneath our noses and we allow it because they promise that you too can be a King if only you work hard enough.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (1931) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

At some point we may have to address our real enemy, the 1%-Republicons, our enemy within holding us hostage.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Great! And just the begining!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26125) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Will this be the item that bursts the dam?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

I actually think it may. Revelations will be forthcoming for Years, I think. It may make Watergate look like a firecracker.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26125) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I think. It may make Watergate look like a firecracker.

It should reduce that incident - to being a tempest in a teapot by comparison.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26125) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

TWEET

Journalists Expose Trove of Hidden Offshore Bank Accounts http://video.pbs.org/video/2364991704 … Austerity needed - REALLY ?

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

In a statement issued Thursday, Global Witness called on Mr. Cameron and fellow Group of 8 leaders to “crack down on anonymous company ownership.”

The disclosure of offshore financial information is also a potential embarrassment for Prime Minister David Cameron of Britain, in that much of the data released so far related to the British Virgin Islands, a British-ruled territory in the Caribbean.

Mr. Cameron had earlier spoken about the importance of tax and financial transparency and pledged to make it a priority issue at a meeting of the leaders of the Group of 8 advanced industrial nations in Northern Ireland in June.

Let's hope more Whistleblowing comes forward ... and that Pressure can be applied to Governments

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

The $32-trillion is twice the $16-trillion that The Fed gave away to the banks with their below-inflation-rate interest rates.

A trillion here, a trillion there.......

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 1 year ago

The Guardian is on this. Apparently, comparing with NY Times there is inside information within the UK government.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/03/offshore-secrets-offshore-tax-haven

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Very interesting, GypsyKing.

From your link, it would appear that exposure is likely to be the limit of this action. Covering their asses through loopholes in laws is what these people actually do for a living.

What I did find very interesting, that in this era of media manipulation, there is actually an International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ), and they take their role in this matter very seriously, indeed.

This is from their website.

While reporting by ICIJ and its partners shows that many users of offshore are engaged in legitimate transactions, the project team’s investigations raise questions about the lack of transparency, lax law enforcement and illegal practices that are prevalent in the offshore world.

http://www.icij.org/blog/2013/04/likely-largest-journalism-collaboration-history

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

And here's one of the comments from the same blog.

Wikipedia, wikileaks... now it seems the journalists are collaborating on the investigation itself, not just sources, and not just sharing their published stories in neutral commentaries anyone can edit.

This is a new form of journalism and it has potential to exterminate, not just limit, power structures.

It would be interesting to keep statistics on the numbers of these 130,000 people who end up dead or bankrupt. No doubt deep investigations into their affairs will reveal people who do not want to be revealed. Notably their associates in crime, including lawyers, accountants and more savory types like leg-breakers and killers (whose ethical outlook is probably much more consistent than their white collar cousins).

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

I think revelation of the sheer volume of money hidden offshore will also have repercussions. Thirty-two Trillion! That's about twice what even I guessed was being sheltered in the US - and it's quite possible that all has not been revealed in this single leak of documents.

It just shows that Occupy was dead accurate in pointing it's finger at what is going wrong. I was also interested, and very surprised that this was even printed in the NYT. Are there cracks forming in the alliance?

Anyway, I thought people here would be very interested to see it and perhaps track down the source documents for what they reveal. Some things just can't be hidden forever, and there Will be repercussions.

Thanks.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

It also shows quite clearly what an absolute crock of BS all this austerity /disaster capitalism shite is. If the EU says it's okay to dip into people's bank accounts and take 10% to bail out another bank, then here you go, another 32 trillion at ten percent should be enough, one would think.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

Richard Wolff says:

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/15812-the-hidden-money

in compliment and a bump for this important post

[-] 1 points by Shule (2040) 1 year ago

Any U.S. politicians on the list?

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

As long as WE LET the obstructionist Rs stay in congress
&
as long as WE LET Harry Reid keep the filibuster in the Senate

nothing will be done about this.

What would YOU do to fix this ?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

First, vote the bastards out. Otherwise -

http://occupywallst.org/forum/forum-recomendations-for-action/

This is the best we were able to do at the time, I think. . . .

Oh, let me add that I think we need to explore "creative non-cooperation." There's a whole field of ideas there yet to discover!

And as I said, I also really like gsw and BradB's approach at the state level.

It's one heck of a mess, but these things are a start, anyway.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

GK's contagious enthusiasm, deep encouraging words for action in propelling all of us forward, staying unified and positive, not getting bogged down with minute differences, and seeking action while there is a renewed interest....the missing $32 Trillion file (sounds like the plot of the Pelican brief)... momentum building practical and philosophical foundations for involvement politically and demonstrably, gives added reason now to get going at local, state and national levels.

Very highly recommended http://occupywallst.org/forum/forum-recomendations-for-action/ the recommendations for action is a practicable approach, multi-pronged.

Thanks again for cheering us on, and for a plug for anything circumspectfully, possibly, usefull of gsw (hes the questionable one) and BradB, http://occupywallst.org/forum/initiative-democracy-pros-cons-can-it-work-in-time/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/implementing-the-initiatives-ammendments-action-pl/

a multi-pronged approach, 1000 ships

https://movetoamend.org/search/node/David%20Cobb speaking schedule David Cobb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLVQAOPBih4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Thank You for all the work you have done in promoting rational tactics for the 99%!

That is what is needed now, rational steps forward leading to various means of effective engagement.

That old thread might be worth revisiting, but unfortunately I have to go again for awhile:(

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

You're welcome, GK.

We are bound by honor to strive to leave a world as nice, and fuul of dreams, as the one we enjoyed.

Admittedly, the boule - amendment idea, about a thousand to one chance of happening, but if we're not getting behind concrete ideas, well get little or no progress, and if we push, we might get a hr29 and equally important wake up some more consumerists, get some awakened one in congress.

The main thing involvement-action politically at all levels, seeking those higher, immutable truths.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

I LOVE that last sentence. You got it - you see it!

In the end it really is a moral battle, a higher battle between light and darkness. We must become the light:)

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Here is a great breakdown of how it works:

http://www.occucards.com/republicrats/

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Thirty-Two trillion is peanuts compared to the $223 trillion of derivitives held bt US commercial banks and savings and loans

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by Stormcrow1 (-25) 1 year ago

I have a question - if this money is hidden how is it that everyone knows about it?

I guess there must be a record somewhere - think? Or is someone pulling someones chain?-

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Was hidden. Just like with wikileaks, things that were hidden, are now in the public domain. What happens from there is anyone's guess.

Better to be informed, so that when your govt tells you they are taking your retirement nest egg, you can tell them to take it from these accounts first.

Hint; austerity/sequester is absolute BS.

[-] 0 points by eviltrillionaire (-146) 1 year ago

Sounds like another crap story.

"Worldwide, the Tax Justice Network estimates that between $21 trillion and $32 trillion of private wealth is held offshore, out of reach of national treasuries (a more conservative estimate by the Boston Consulting Group puts the figure at $8 trillion). The international organization says that translates to up to $280 billion a year in lost taxes — twice what the world's richest countries spend combined on foreign aid."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/04/03/offshore-data-leak.html?autoplay=true

They're coming up with all sorts of numbers because they have no idea. This many trillion or that many trillion. They just throw out made up numbers to make things sound dire. I can't blame people for hiding their money overseas. It's not necessarily to avoid taxes. It's to protect ones self from governments suddenly deciding to confiscate people's private property because governments waste money on stupid shit. Just like what happened in Cyprus; some asshole govvy decided to confiscate. People need to keep their hands off of other people's property (mostly fueled by jealousy) or face the barrel of a gun for theft.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

If the money is " hidden" how do you know it's 32 trillion?

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

My advise is bring your money back. Oh, and try not to leave a paper trail. LOL.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Thanks! Wow, what an amazing undertaking this was. My hat's off to these guys and gals! Sellar!

The MSM will try hard to squelch this, but it's too late now. These journalists actually managed to keep the lid on this 'till it broke!

We owe these journalists a huge round of applause!!! This may be a game changer!

Whoopie!!!!

[+] -7 points by highlander12 (-8) 1 year ago

Make the nation more business-friendly and the money will return. In this atmosphere, it is a better investment to keep the money out of the country.

[-] 5 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

That "business-friendly" that you are talking about is one of the reasons that university graduates cannot find good jobs as they are being outsourced to slave labor countries

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

We are friendly enough to business already (low taxes, weak regulations) are you joking.? AND we provide the largest middle class consumer population than any where on the planet.

Are you suggesting that business is threatening to keep the economy weak unless we give them what they want?

We call that extortion. Didn't they do that (with their puppets Bush/repubs) in 2008 when they mugged us and extorted $1T or they would stop lending?

How about we just grow a bigger pair tell them we will block access to our market unless they start hiring Americans.

That'll work.

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

The corporate tax in the USA is 32% , it's among the highest in the world. The USA is not business friendly.

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

What really matters is how much revenue is collected after deductions, credits, Etc.

http://ibeconomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/imgname-us_corporate_taxes_at_record_lows.jpg

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

The effective tax rate is zero cause the corp 1% oligarchs rigged the tax system to get all kinda deductions, and shelters.

Are you a fuckin moron?

There ain't NO better place to do business and we must tighten the tax laws up. Ifthey threaten to leave, let 'em go.! better yet force 'em out.

Let them sell there plastic crap to Viet nam or Latvia.

LOL.

Don't be afraid of bug business. A major point of Occupy is that corps need to remember the people are in charge and the corps ought to be afraid of us.

[-] -1 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 1 year ago

Even worse.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Actually, historically the US had its major-league growth period when the top tax rate was over 90%. Bob Hope used to joke about it, because people would pay him to perform by giving him "gifts" instead of money.

He already had more than he could possibly spend in one lifetime. He ended his career working for free, or for charities, because a gift tax meant he was taxed on anything he was given.