Forum Post: There will be no income equality unless a 17 year old can buy a bran new Trans Am factory made while working a minimum wage job
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 5, 2011, 2:21 a.m. EST by VladimirMayakovsky
(796)
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This is the bare minimum that Americans must have. So raise the minimum wage already. People should be able to have a nice suburban home, and raise 3 kids through college on minimum wage. Anything else is a sign that the corporations are screwing you.
The Trans Am has been long discontinued
SIGH! REALLY! Are you really this ignorant! So minimum wage has a minimal standard, it is then regulated by the state. The state is corrupt about this, They are more than happy to jump minimum wages a few times a year because they see more money before the economy catches back up increasing there expenditures adding to their allotted accounts getting more money each year. So minimum wage is raised by fifty cents. The fast food place finds a reason to increase prices for wages, they realize they can cut people, charge each item at that fifty cents and increase profit rates. All minimum wage hikes do is start a cascadian affect of greater poverty.
The corporations are screwing you but not the way you think!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-war-with-america-was-won-before-the-first-shot/#comment-343518
When you can buy a brand new Pontiac Trans Am, let us know. Pontiac is out of business.
troll. What we need is system where voters matter more than people writing checks.
then organize and pressure your representitive. OWS is nothing but a temper tantrum
What do you think this is? We are at the organize part.
hahaha! you call this organized? your aiming at the wrong target. take a lesson from the tea party
The tea party was coopted by organizations like Freedom Works, which was already up and running. Real grassroots organizing takes longer than two months.
and the unions & the working families party are not backing OWS? really?
There is difference between supporting and taking over
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/my_in_tents_night_amid_anarchy_of_ush5s5NscUZincUN0tF0yO/1
Will we be able to vote ourselves higher wages?
No. Wages are set by market demand for labor. What we could do is vote for sensible economic policies instead of corporate welfare.
Wages are already set by the market.
If wages are set by market demand for labor, and the labor supply market is worldwide, then wages will have to match worldwide rates, which is $1-2/hour.
We have a minimum wage to prevent starvation wages. Which creates demand for product, which creates demand for labor. Its a floor.
A guy who makes $15 and hour shouldn't be able to use the government to get a raise.
Why should the labor market be worldwide. We should keep our jobs here.
How about people upskilling themselves to prevent starvation wages? Is that too much to ask for? Like, say, going to college and getting a degree in something that is in high demand and pays well? Like, say moving to another part of the country with jobs? Like say, moving to another country altogether with jobs, like generations of immigrants did in the past? Why are these things horrible options?
Why should the labor market be worldwide? Well, because it can be. Corporations are multinationals. It is not your job to keep here, it is the corporation's job. You have some serious entitlement attitude.
So who picks the tomatoes then? If everyone is a banker, where does the food come from? Someone has to be working class, do those people not deserve to eat and have shelter?
It is their choice to be working class, so they will have to accept a lower standard of living than others. This is a free country. People have choices and responsibilities that come with those choices.
If everyone got a degree in banking, then the supply of bakers would outweigh the need. This would cause the pay for bankers to go down, because if you won't work for what I'm paying there are plenty of people who will. Most of those people with degrees would have to do other jobs. So your "solution" changes nothing except drive down the salaries of bankers and create a mess of highly educated wage earners, who are probably in debt up to their ears from student loans.
How do people choose to be working class? Do we choose which family we are born to? Do we choose to have failing schools? Do we choose for wages to stay stagnant while cost of living rises.
Essentially what you are advocating is a system of virtual slavery where the majority of the physical labor is done by people who get nothing in return except a shanty and enough food to keep from collapsing.
So don't be bankers, be something else. Be nimble. Always reinvent yourself. Keep an eye out for the future. Observe current events and the market. Stay ahead of global trends.Watch less reality shows and read the economist instead. Never stop continuing education. Be entrepreneurial. Hustle, hustle, hustle.
If you don't want to do that, accept a low standard of living. Accept that others with a higher standard of living are doing things which you are unwilling to do.
I personally know a bunch of Asian kids whose parents worked in laundromats and restaurants and grocery stores and they went on to do very well in their lives. So don't give me the excuse that people cannot rise about their family of birth. That's not true at all. That is only true if you want to settle in comfortable mediocrity but expect to have a great standard of living by manipulating laws.
So the people who do manual labor for a living are doing so because they are stupid and lazy, therefore they do not deserve adequate food and shelter. Point taken.
I just explained what is wrong with your position. Hard work is hard work. Everyone should be able to support themselves, regardless of whether they work a garbage truck or sit in an office. Personal responsibility has nothing to do with it.
In my class you bust your behind or you fail. Period. Hard work counts more than natural talent. Some people like the idea of working with their hands. Should they live in shacks so someone can squeeze a few more dollars into the next quarterly report?
Now you are sulking. Why not simply tell me what is wrong with my position? Why can't people hustle and strive to better themselves? Yes, there will always be garbage collectors, but tell me why garbage collectors should earn more than what their unskilled job commands in the market? Just because they breathe? what about personal responsibility? Do you care about that at all or not? Is that what you teach to your students? Do not have to study, do not have to worry about your grades, it is the responsibility of the school to make sure that everyone gets a B+ regardless of quality of work? Perhaps you do as there are people all around on this thread saying essentially the same.
Very worrisome.
You mad, bro?
Bacon. I vote we all get free Bacon
There will be no freedom till WalMart pays the greeters more than the CEO.
There will be no freedom until WalMart stops locking its employees in the store at closing and forcing them to work unpaid overtime.
Yipee...more FREE stuff. for doing nothing. Flip a burger...get a car. Sweep a floor ..get a home. Liberal nirvana. money for nothing. Lazy assholes often have ideas like this
Small homes and electric scooters and high walkscores make much more sense: http://occupywallst.org/forum/must-watch-videos-for-ows-revolutionaries/#comment-288508
Don't fall for this psychological crap from any one percent goon. It's an obvious attempt to discredit our cause or divert our attention from the obscene, unjust, immoral, and illogical concentration of wealth. Donald Trump went on record the other day telling us to blame the government instead of Wall Street and the richest one percent. Other well known public figures are trying to stereotype all of us as lazy entitlement junkies without a brain or spine among us. Their goons are obviously online and on air trying to break our will. Don't fall for any of it. Just follow the law and keep protesting no matter what the one percent goons say or do. Our message is vital. Below is my two cents:
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of domestic wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent of Americans already own nearly 1/2 of all US wealth. An all-time high. More than double their share before Reagan took office. The lower 90 percent of Americans own less than 10 percent of all US wealth. An all-time low. Still, the rich want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
I'm wondering if it is possible for you to post this same post on every thread on this site?
The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans, saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively. The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated around 40% of all United States wealth. The upper class held around 30%. The middle and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.
Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, the lions share of United States wealth was gradually transfered back to the middle class. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. This was the recovery. A massive redistribution of wealth. Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own well over 40 percent of all US wealth. The lower 90 percent own less than 10 percent of all US wealth. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible.
No redistribution. No recovery.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
I think someone should tie your Ctrl C fingers. You cut n paste more than a 8 year working at the Chinese Nike factory.
Next.
Good comeback
All that was necessary.
Really? Come on, something witty please?
I'd rather post another entry. In your honor of course.
Two examples of rotten disgusting immoral behavior involving five very well known filthy disgusting rich multi-hundred-millionaire fake humanitarian celebrity pigs.
The ugly truth about the housing market, Countrywide, predatory lending, and the endorsements of Oprah Winfrey, Ellen Degeneres, and Dr Phil. Ch'Ching!
The first subprime loans were issued in 1994. It was a gimmick to sell more homes, artificially inflate the market, sell more homes at higher profits, foreclose on those who could not pay when the ARM rates readjusted, take their homes leaving them with nothing to show for their payments, resell the homes at a higher profit and so on. It was a cruel and calculated plan to sell more homes and artificially inflate the market. Those loans were incredibly profitable for well over a decade before the house of cards finally collapsed. In the meantime, bankers got richer along with the richest one percent who made off with higher dividends. It was a sham.
The biggest player in the game was Countrywide. Endorsed by Oprah Winfrey, Ellen Degeneres, and Dr Phil. If you have their shows from '04' to '06' on tape, watch them again. All three were paid millions specifically to endorse Countrywide by name. The biggest subprime player in the game. They issued more ARM loans than anyone else. Foreclosing on those who could not make their monthy payments when the rates suddenly went through the roof. It was a cruel and calculated plan to sell more homes, artificially inflate the market, foreclose, and resell for a higher profit. The sham worked like a charm for 12 years before the house of cards finally fell in.
At this approximate time, the worthless paper was sold to unsuspecting investors.
Oprah, Ellen, and Dr Phil were paid millions for their endorsements. Ch'Ching!
They have always had their ignorant love-sick fans eating right out of their hands. This alone is irresponsible. But to stand there and tell their ignorant love-sick fans to run out and get a loan from the biggest rat in the industry. That's just sick.
These three pigs are not naive little uninformed twits like Paris Hilton. They are educated, informed, and extremely savvy mass media juggernauts. They knew damn well about predatory lending. It was a common phrase by then. Still, they stood there and endorsed the biggest subprime rat in the industry. They did so with a big fat FAKE smile on their face. Unfortunately, public figures are not legally required to be straight with their ignorant fans.
But they God damn well should be.
Bono is no humanitarian. In fact, he made millions from a shady deal with Live Nation in which other investors were made to subsidize his multi-million dollar stock options regardless of market value. The stock tanked, Bono unloaded, and those 'other' investors did in fact take giant losses in part, so the filthy disgusting rich multi-hundred-millionaire 'humanitarian' Bono would not have to.
Ch'Ching!
Just another rotten immoral disgusting trick perpetrated in the name of greed.
Madonna secured a similar deal with Live Nation.
I've said it many times and I will say it many more.
There is no such thing as a multi-millionaire humanitarian.
Oh god.
Well I don't think you can satisfy income equality without making everyone millionaires, and even then some will spend frivolously, and bring the issue right back to the table with cries of inequality.
And one of the things that many do not consider, is that if we were all possessed of wealth, it would drive inflation tremendously. It would ramp up the value and price of virtually everything, and eventually level, and we would find ourselves right back where we started. So I don't really believe that resources were ever intended to be distributed equally or in amounts capable of sustaining hunger. Hunger drives us.
I hate evil corporations, I like the shit they make but fuck them!!
Same here. I like to use all the shit they make because that makes my life easy but seriously I hate them. I mean there would be no OWS movement unless the corporations made the tents and such.