Forum Post: There is only one ROOT cause
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 26, 2011, 12:53 p.m. EST by FirstLight
(21)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
There are many symptoms and too few are getting closer to the real root cause and the obvious solution, but first you have to read and learn the facts:
http://www.wilpf.org/docs/ccp/CP_article+timeline.pdf
What would change if corporations did not have personhood? The first and main effect would be that a barrier would be removed that is preventing democratic change — just as the abolition of slavery tore down an insurmountable legal block, making it possible to pass laws to provide full rights to the newly freed slaves. After corporate personhood is abolished, new legislation will be possible. Here are a few examples. If “corporate persons” no longer had First Amendment right of free speech, we could prohibit all corporate political activity, such as lobbying and contributions to political candidates and parties. If “corporate persons” were not protected against search without a warrant under the Fourth Amendment, then corporate managers couldn’t turn OSHA and the EPA inspectors away if they make surprise, unscheduled searches. If “corporate persons” weren’t protected against discrimination under the 14th Amendment, corporations like Wal-Mart couldn’t force themselves into communities that don’t want them.
Revoking corporate personhood would help, but it does not resolve the root cause of the corporate dominance problem as this article explains: http://www.thwink.org/sustain2/articles/016/CorporateDominanceLoop.htm
"What about repealing corporate personhood? Won't that work? No. It will help only a little. It would not change the way business managers choose between what's good for society and what's good for profits. The consequences of that decision are side effects like those listed above."
Legislation and law does not make a difference if judges and attorneys are all crooked. Get rid of 50% of the judges in the US, and take money out of the courts by making a law that legal fees are put into a pool for each case, and both the defendant and the plaintiff get to spend 50% of that amount to attorneys - this is one way to pull corruption out of the court system. Law changes will not make a difference at all if the judges keep interpreting laws fin favor of corporations and big money.
And digiztize laws as well. Get rid of the entire outdated legal system that was created hundreds of years ago by the English. It doesn't work anymore.
The ROOT cause to our problems is the dark side of 'human nature'. Everything else is just an enabling accessory. Our weaknesses, failings, sloppy thinking and cognitive dissonances can be seen everywhere. If handed an 'optimal' system, I'm not sure we could keep from screwing it up in short order. Biological evolution can only take a species so far. Intellectual/emotional evolution are up to us to figure out. And after what, 6,000 years or so of 'civilization' we might just be kind of slow learners. -- "The fault dear Brutus lies not in our stars but in ourselves." [Shakespeare]. "Let's work the problem people. Let's not make things worse by guessing." [Gene Kranz].
Actually, I'm not trying to be flip. It could be observational bias on my part, but I believe I've seen something new in the attitude of some OWS people. The focus on non-violence, tolerance, respect, self-restraint and thoughtfulness in the face of hostile police and daily confusion was/is impressive. But more, it was a quiet assured confidence that they were going to make a change despite being small and presently powerless. And that they were doing this to make things better for everyone. I guess I'm seeing a real step forward in that intellectual/emotional evolution that we must make to survive. This is what really matters, not the particular economic ideology. Another world is possible.
@21stCenHomoSapien Im also coming to the same conclusions, that the root cause for all our global turmoil is our uncorrected relations between us the human species. This massive global revolutionary movement is just a huge indication (for the fist time in history) a mass such as this that is literally happening at major points all over the world simultaneously, theres something bigger here that perhaps we still cannot comprehend. Corrupted governance and huge in- balance of finance distribution just really stand out as major issues in a long list of global crisis issues, and seeing as how economy is based on calculations and interest rates its a major sign in how we as humans make calculations and measure our personal interest gains when interrelating with one another. We have a long way to go in order to begin to start building a mutual sustainable society, and I also agree with you that new things are sprouting up in this ows movement (forming changes in approach and a more respectable attitude) and this new young generation is waking up and perhaps striving for something higher than what this world has to offer so far.
And it’s only possible, this “massive global revolutionary movement,” because we are now more connected globally then ever before. Just look how the Arab spring gave people ideas about Wall Street, and then how OWS spread throughout the U.S. and then overseas.
We're all in the same boat today, having common desires that we can’t fulfill, and feeling increasing crises on all levels (personal, interpersonal, group, national, and global). And I think we feel, evolutionarily even, that if we can all unite together we will be able to accomplish our goals: Of being able to fulfill our desires.
Social network science says this:
And as the Anthropologist Michael Wesch says: "What I would consider the tragedy of our times is that we are more connected than ever, and yet, we don’t realize it and don’t truly live it."
Similarly Professor James Fowler, co-author of the book "Connected: The Surprising Power of Social Networks and How They Shape Our Lives," says (in reference to our environment having a strong influence on us and our actions having great influence on others):
“If you tell someone they don’t influence anybody, they’re not going to do anything. But if you tell them they influence a thousand people they’ll change their lives. And that’s why I think it’s so critical for us to understand first and foremost how and why we are connected.”
And that’s why, in conjunction with us uniting more and more, we must also study our connection and seek to fix “our uncorrected relations between us the human species” as ruth67 says. Because us just uniting solves nothing. As James Fowler says, we have to “… understand first and foremost how and why we are connected” and then, as Michael Wesch says, we need to begin to “… truly live it.”
If you see the documentary "zeitgeist: moving forward" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w ) perhaps, only perhaps you will understand how wrong you are. There is no such thing like "human nature", is just a children tale for adult indoctrination. In this documentary is well explained by scientist with arguments based on scientific studies and a lot of knowledge in the matter.
Well, yes, I'd agree that humans have not evolved anywhere are far as we might dream we should have by now, and that dark side is in fact, the true root cause - and it will take eons to evolve and change that - if ever, but until them, this is the root cause of the power struggle by which all other problems can be traced.
I also might add that any amendments or new laws must be presented to the public for approval before Congress does it behind our backs.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Ego_Centered_Front_Burnerism-_Whats_wrong_with_putting_your_pet_issue_to_the_front_of_the_priority_list.
other root causes include the federal reserve bank, a crooked dumble down education system, and failed actual representation...
While you have a very important core truth to share here its not the MOST important of all things in the occupy priority list.
Here is the root cause!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/something-to-think-about-part-2/
The Revolution starts here!
Capitalism is not the root, money is not, it's greed-and you will never stop greed....
Very informative write up. Thanks for sharing.
Yep, Capitalism
I totally agree that corporate personhood needs to go. There needs to be a real revision of the laws to put the interests of flesh and blood Americans over paper entities who's entire reason for existence is to pursue profits. But what about the other special interests, PACs, and wealthy individuals (who are not corporations) who are currently buying off our politicans with campaign donations? Seems to me corporate personhood is an ancillary issue to the wider discussion of how we elect people in our country.
There are donation limits for individuals; corporate personhood takes care of the abusive corporate-backed PACs, but yes, there can be even more stringent campaign finance law that follows, but if we don't get rid of CP first, we can't get the rest - so it is the main issue, not ancillary as it bakes into law the ability to skirt it.
I see your point - I would agree that the corporate donors are by far the biggest part of the problem and corporate person-hood is fueling it. Thanks for the clarification. I'll be sure to highlight this in my future posts. Spread the word!
at least copy and paste from the PDF
The one Root cause of the OWS = Communism
Bad logic Kevabe; OWS supports capitalism; it is the subversion of fair representation and rules bent by the few to the favor of the few due to years of cronyism. Even with communism, cronyism and similar corruption exists.
Well, I guess that is the problem with a movement lacking centralized leadership. You claim the movement is supportive to capitalism and yet various other OWS members regard capitalism as a device created by satan himself and share propaganda insisting on ridding our nation of the use of capitalism. I believe that you really are convinced that OWS is a pro-capitalist movement, but so far you are really the only person backing the OWS who has shown this perspective of the movement.
Everyone says they do not resent wealth or want a hand out - they want a fair and level playing field. Capitalism is not good nor bad in and of itself - it is the corruption of any system (power, control) that is the evil. You can toss out and replace any corrupted system - only to replace it with another that gets equally corrupted.
And the root cause of the global debt crisis is capitalism.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/maybe-this-will-get-the-support-of-mainstream-medi/
Capitalism is the other face of the same coin than communism. Both are based in money. The article fails the root cause, the root cause is money. Capitalism and communism are also symptoms of the monetary system. Paddy Chayefsky knew it almost 40 years ago, please watch the movie "network" and check it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5hrcwU7Dk&start=49
Money is a symptom. Money=Free Speech; people have free speech, CP assigns corporations=people, thus free speech (money) by default. So how again isn't CP the root cause?
Worst, CP gives corporations the same rights as people, thus the 14th amendment clause of 'equal protection', meaning, freedom from the very bodies that can charter them (States). Game over.
CP doesn't count because the DET and the PFG-P are stronger. Game over.
lol, the global debt caused by capitalism?
Global debt is easy to achieve, just take down the leader. in this case the US. how easy? put the biggest liberal spender in American history in charge during a time when we needed to tighten up our belts.
I'm not saying Obama is part of a plot to take down the enemy by some foreign power.
or am I.....
I don't think you know what you're saying.