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Forum Post: There is nothing we can agree upon.

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 13, 2011, 6:53 p.m. EST by jppt (82)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

This is the problem.

69 Comments

69 Comments


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[-] 1 points by infonomics (393) 2 years ago

There is one thing that we can agree upon: that there is nothing that we can agree upon.

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 2 years ago

The Revolution has a new theme song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L-GOHa5-YQ

http://occupywallst.org/forum/in-the-name-of-allah/

The Revolution starts here!

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

Abolish Plutocracy.

Short. Simple. Everyone should agree on it. Yes?

[-] 1 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

Ok lets take the idea. Get money out of politics. Now lets set up steps to bring this about. Let's see if we can find a step 1 we can agree on.

[-] 1 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 2 years ago

did you see the 99Percentdeclaration? I can agree with alot of those points.

[-] 1 points by SkepticismAndWonder (29) from Imperial, CA 2 years ago

As for the OP, I think we can all agree that we all disagree, and that if we let it, it will be a problem.

[-] 1 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

ok let's not let it be a problem ok?

[-] 1 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

What is the OP?

[-] 1 points by SkepticismAndWonder (29) from Imperial, CA 2 years ago

Original post.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20443) 2 years ago

Can we all agree to get money out of politics? To take back our government for the people?

[-] 1 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

I will agree.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20443) 2 years ago

Good. Once we get our government back we can create a fair tax structure, ensure that people earn a living wage, reinstate Glass-Steagall, end corporate personhood, and all-in-all return our government to one that promotes the general welfare of our nation.

[-] 1 points by nkp (33) 2 years ago

by fair tax you mean flat right?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20443) 2 years ago

No. I mean one that promotes the general welfare of the citizens of our nation.

[-] 1 points by nkp (33) 2 years ago

like a flat tax?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20443) 2 years ago

If we ever get back control of our government for the people we'll have that discussion. I honestly don't know enough about it and I'm sure it is complicated. It would include eliminating loopholes, deductions, etc. and might work, I'm just not sure.

[-] 1 points by nkp (33) 2 years ago

ok, i respect that. i just simply want to say that a flat tax would be most fair if it contained no deductions. then no loophole could exist

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 2 years ago

Nah, I'm not buying that one. What else you selling?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (20443) 2 years ago

Why wouldn't you want to get money out of politics? Because you want the plutocracy to continue? Is that it?

[-] 1 points by Windsofchange (1044) 2 years ago

Uh, the rape of our constitutional rights--maybe we can start there.

[-] 1 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

Both seem to go together.

[-] 1 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

I feel anyplace is a good starting point if it leads us in the direction we all seek.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

I think you'd be amazed how much easier it would be if people who lacked intelligence, education and reasoning ability were not part of the solution seeking discussions. Originally, for the first 80 years of the beginning of our nation, it was that way.

[-] 2 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

Maybe we should stop thinking we are all that bright until we learn the benefits of unity.

[-] 1 points by FrogWithWings (1367) 2 years ago

Interesting that you speak of unity. When it stopped being as I mentioned, it was because of A Lincoln and his unity forcing war, of which this nation has never paid for, bankrupted twice since, lost our original Democratic Republic and Constitutional Rights, and lost more lives than all wars fought since combined.

He wanted unity at any cost. Well, he got it when he set the stage for the entire world to be sold to bankers. We're all slaves to them, can you not see this?

However, it is not possible to untangle from the debt instruments and restore reasonable order, with anything like a 1:1 direct democracy.

I'm suggesting that establishing baselines of measurable reading, writing and comprehension skill levels will be required. Everything that has been done, and 95% of what will be required to work through it all, is in the written word.

Those who are lacking, are going to have to accept and trust those who prove to not be.

[-] 1 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

That's why the smartest political minds to ever exist created America as a democratic republic.

Aristotle himself considered direct democracy to be one of the three perverted forms of government.

[-] 2 points by SkepticismAndWonder (29) from Imperial, CA 2 years ago

Aristotle is not the final authority on anything. That way lies damnation.

[-] -1 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

I'm not saying he is the "final authority". Thats up to God. What i AM saying, is he, and all the forefathers, would WAY smarter than we are and WAY more researched.

[-] 1 points by SkepticismAndWonder (29) from Imperial, CA 2 years ago

That doesn't also mean they weren't wrong. Oppenheimer was well researched and he told Truman after the war that science at last knows sin.

Our republic was not democratic, that's why it's called a republic. It was created by rich white men for rich white men. Rather we are an amalgam of practicing democracies. The rights we (did) enjoy today was the result of the well directed efforts of generations past, like the civil rights movement.

I don't understand what Aristotle's dislike of direct democracy has to do with us. To me it sounds like an argument from authority, which isn't very sound. One may as well build a house upon a body of water.

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

Aristotle believed in slavery, as did the genocidal "founding fathers." They were assholes. Fuck their political views.

And Fuck Republics. Look at the Roman republic we where modeled after. It degenerated into a decadent plutocracy, kinda like we have.

We need a healthy dose of REAL democracy or we are headed down the same road as Rome.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

We are ALREADY down that road because we give our leaders too much centralized power. checks and balances have very nearly been thrown out the window. And slavery isnt wrong or bad. When done fairly, its simply someone performing a job in exchange food and a living area instead of money. When it became bad, is when it become a race issue. Originally it was just for people who lost a war to other people. Then it transformed into a way to resolve debts. Then it got ugly, racial, and brutal. But the original "idea" of slavery was not bad or harmful.

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

No, its the very idea of slavery that is bad and harmful---even the idealized form of civilized slavery from you historical revisionist imagination.

Liberty is an essential vital aspect of a human being.

Slavery is Murder.

[-] 0 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

I agree that in our CURRENT society slavery is just wrong. But it is not murder. But in the "good ole days" it was considered more of "indentured servitude" instead of slavery. Which was because of debts. Learn a little about history other than what the liberals teach that everyone is equal and we all deserve to be CEOs. Do some of your OWN thinking.

[-] 1 points by EricBlair (447) 2 years ago

If you knew anything about indentured servitude or debtors prison you would understand that it is a brutal horrific institution. Moreover, it is not the same thing as chattel slavery which has existed in many forms since ancient times. Human beings have been treated like property--- sold, raped, made to fight with animals in arenas, left to die in the bowels of slave ships, driven in forced labor---- for over ten thousand years.

The "good ole days" weren't so good.

Leaving aside the historical revisionism you have been fed regarding the living conditions of slaves and indentured servants, my disagreement with you is more fundamental.

Regardless of the material conditions that slaves are treated to (and there have been rare slaves who experienced relative material comfort-- without beatings, with adequate food, rest even leisure time.) the very institution itself is fundamentally criminal.

No matter how well the slave is treated, the notion that one person subjects their freedom and will to another is categorically offensive and evil. As a matter of basic ethical principle.

Liberty is an indispensable aspect of a person. Taking that away destroys humanity. It transforms them into an object. It kills a human being.

Slavery is Murder.

[-] -1 points by REALamerican (241) 2 years ago

I am talking about slavery during the Greek times. Not us enslaving blacks. there was a HUGE difference. All I am saying, is that during the time of Aristotle, slavery was perfectly acceptable. Furthermore, I said I agreed with something Aristotle said, not EVERYTHING he said. To believe in EVERYTHING someone says isn't belief or agreement... its worship.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Consensus doesnt work in the real world.

[-] 0 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

Seems so.

[-] 0 points by DunkiDonut2 (-108) 2 years ago

I would agree with you if you left me and my money alone.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

if you got it by fraud we're gonna take it away

and what you didn't get by fraud, if of course you are among the one percent,

we're gonna tax.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I think that is fair.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Who is "we"?

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

me an' friday

we're gonna tax that ass!

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Go drink more.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

i don't drink

no drugs either

scary ain't it

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

Disturbing. Though it would explain much.

[-] 0 points by DunkiDonut2 (-108) 2 years ago

Reading post after post after post on here, it would appear like OWS wants to shut down ports, take parks and property. What is your definition of fraud?

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

yeah-ya.

we're taking parks. And we're not giving them back. well.

they do belong to the people.

and whether you like it or not, they are people

[-] 0 points by DunkiDonut2 (-108) 2 years ago

Oh,,, ZenDog has decided how others commit fraud but you take a park that I have paid taxes on,,, my part of the park that tax paying PEOPLE have paid for,,, and suddenly you taking something I helped pay for is not fraud. Interesting how that OWS thingy works.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

interesting how repelican ideology works -

any tax benefit becomes their own personal disposable property

fuck you

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

There are plenty of registered Democrats that agree with the park circuces.

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 2 years ago

I don't think that is what he said. And are you saying that people that pay taxes ( I suspect that you don't ) are not part of the People?

[-] 0 points by DunkiDonut2 (-108) 2 years ago

I think YOU said, "we're taking parks and not giving them back they do belong to the people." They do belong to those that paid their taxes. The city budget has park expenses and revenues from personal property taxes to pay for them. Personal property taxes means that the tax payer owns the parks,,, not people that,,,,, as you say,,,,,, take the parks. You are taking the parks by fraud, which you claim you have some personal law you have created in your own mind.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

it isn't fraud

it's called civil disobedience

your way of doing business is done

the repelican party is

DONE

[-] 0 points by DunkiDonut2 (-108) 2 years ago

Oh,,,. I would pay zero taxes, create as much wealth any way I can do it using your same civil disobedience. You must respect my way of disobedience,,, I would assume? No,,, bet your way is the only way and nobody else has any freedoms as you do. The republican party is alive and very strong as seen by corporate America along Main street, TV and newspapers. CAPITAL ONE Card????

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

give it time fool

the repelican party is DONE

global warming is right outside the window of every single American in the country

when it clicks - say byby

[-] 0 points by DunkiDonut2 (-108) 2 years ago

Oh geezzzzz. Now the global warming fruit cake crap comes out.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

ho rah

mutherfucker

  • the repelican party is DONE
[-] 0 points by DunkiDonut2 (-108) 2 years ago

Your POWER TO THE PEOPLE comments are getting fewer and smaller with each post. You are like that child that runs around the room for an hour then lays down and takes a nap. DONE,,, you say? Gooo gooooo gaaaaa gaaaaa. DONE is probably what you say after you fill your diapers.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

yeah-ya

<yawn>

what's that?

wha'd ya say?

oh

it's you

piss off

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 2 years ago

More importantly, they belong to the 99% ZenDog claims to be fighting for.

[-] 0 points by DunkiDonut2 (-108) 2 years ago

I cant figure their math. Something new. I'm not 1% and dont believe in the 99%. 99 plus 1 is 100%. Yet they claim MOST of the people on here are trolls. If most are troll then how did they do the 99% math part. Most are trolls, they claim. Where are the 99% people?

[-] 1 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

I have , hope you and your money are happy together.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Who's we?

[-] 2 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

We would be the people who come to this forum and post.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

You think this is a mess? Go to a GA.

[-] 2 points by jppt (82) 2 years ago

Indeed there is no lack of examples of our ability to disagree with each other.