Forum Post: The war on guns?
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 15, 2012, 3:25 p.m. EST by richardkentgates
(3269)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
lol. This type of thinking has done nothing but make the world one that is unhappy and solution free. Anything to get out of admitting that we are part of the problem, eh? As long as we can point the finger and feel comforted in solutions whether they work or not, we just don't care about anything else. Man we are a bunch of fucktards.
You just watch your language there mister richardkentgates we don't want your potty mouth round these parts. I'll wager that the murderer was out of his mind of prescription psychotropic drugs like the other school shooters were. Why don't we ban these chemical lobotomies? they are producing an army of drug numbed sociopaths capable of unspeakable atrocities. You only notice when they get their hands on guns but what is it doing to our society to have millions of people on drugs all the time? Throw away those drugs and you wont need to take away the guns.
How many that have parents that actually care about them do things like this? Well, probably there are some, but it must be some percentage far less.
I'm not certain this is a war on guns; it appears to be a war for guns. And the people advance their cause "for" every time an event like this occurs. And gun profits spike immediately every time an anti-gunner says "gimme." And what we are doing is inflating the market.
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As they blow smoke up your ass about gun control.Obama is in your pocket lifting a big chunk of your social security.Not to worry America the price of cat food is not chained to the cpi.
People want to be safe and secure.Screw the constitution thing. People only are concerned for there own well being.Screw the walmart workers.I need my cheep plastic crap made from China. Let the Corporations do as they wish to the planet,They are the "job providers".Always remember your vote counts.Now anyone for a Big Mac?
here is another idea to avoid confronting the real " villains " - nra & alec
license anyone who wants a gun after 25 years of therapy
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You've gotten really cynical lately.
the only fucktards are those who continue to support the proliferation of semi automatic weapons.
there was a knife attack that seriously injured 22 children in China yesterday. As sad as the events in conneticut were, it is not necessary to open up a national debate. Let's talk about the shooter and his parents? What caused the shooter to snap? What was the shooter's upbringing? Guns or no guns, it doesn't matter. that was a means, a symptom only
and ALL 22 CHILDREN lived
but that's not the point
the point is that the nra wants to sell more guns
OK. So what?
If one of the children in China had a gun, he could have killed the guy with the knife - right ?
If this guy didn't have a gun, it could have been a knife, club, car, whatever. you are taking away a means, nothing more. It will not touch what caused this individual to snap.
He owned no guns, he got them illegally. Let's do something to prevent mentally disturbed from having access to guns.
Do you think the 22 wounded in China would be alive if a gun was used.?
Isn't there something in the Constitution which guarantees mentally disturbed hate groups the right to own and use weapons of mass destruction?
Nope.
Let's put a million dollar fee on dealer licenses, use the money for victims.
I ain't against that. Meaningful, responsible, gun safety would mean much fewer gun dealers, no private sales. always background checks, real registration, electronic tracking, and long jail time if any gun safety law is broken.
require gun owners to carry insurance
imagine how much louder our voice would be with the insurance industry on our side
I agree check my post.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-much-liability-coverage-would-you-need-for-som/
in the Clackamas town center, a 22 yr old with a cc stopped the shooter after the guy had killed 2 people. after the shooter saw nick melis gun, the shooter turn his gun on himself and killed himself. meli prevented further deaths by being armed.
Here we go:
http://news.yahoo.com/why-more-people-didnt-die-clackamas-mall-shooting-225031988.html
Evidence that the imaginary citizen with concealed weapon did nothing.
do a search on melis and the clackamas mall.
Already did, only he claims he did. no other witness. Shooter shot himself in a stairwell far from where Milie mouth liar claimed he whipped it out and was unable to perform. He lied. He didn't do anything. You believed him because you wanted to. Are you a gun nut?
I have seen NO story of civilian gun owner stopping a crime. never happens! It's Bullshit. Like milie & you.
gun owners stop crime in their home all the time. just because you dont read about that doesnt mean it didnt happen although the msms would like you to think so.
like the impotent, make believe, Milie mouth liar in calakmas?
LOL Whatta joke.
C'mon ain't you got one story that can be verified?
Let me see if I can enlighten you. Here is a short list there are hundredths more out there if you so desire to do a search:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/clerk-at-indianapolis-21st-amendment-liquor-store-shoots-kills-suspected-robber
http://www.durantdemocrat.com/view/full_story/20834428/article-Calera-girl-meets-respondents-of-last-month%E2%c3%af%c2%bf%c2%bd%c3%af%c2%bf%c2%bds-home-intrusion
http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/174452611.html
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/10/chicopee_police_arrest_second.html
http://www.wkyc.com/(S(5gc40445twtwgj453gk2liai))/news/article/265730/45/Elyria-Home-invader-shot-killed-by-homeowner
Cool. Good thing we got those 300million guns on hand.
LOL
Have you seen the numbers on people killed by their own guns during home invasions.?
Sure haven't - got a link to some of those incidents?
I'll look around for you if you're interested.
can you type? clearly you can( to some degree) so go to a search engine and type in ..................HOW MANY CRIMES ARE STOPPED BY GUN OWNERS
I found this.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/30/opinion/frum-guns-safer/index.html
Whatta ya think?
Bill knows better than you!
http://www.nationofchange.org/nra-enabler-death-1355760591
I disagree. You don't know what was in the shooters mind, or why he killed himself.
the shooter had already killed 2 people and would have killed more had melis not been there.
You don't know if melis had anything to do with it. You don't whatthe shooter saw, or thought. He is dead.
Sorry, good try. Anything else. I never hear any stories of people stopping crime with the 200 million civilian guns out there. It's a myth.
melie had a cc and the shooter saw his gun, thats when the shooter , after killing 2 people killed himself. do your own search and read about the incident.
Bullshit.
Link the story. I'll read it.
You don't know if melis had anything to do with it. You don't what the shooter saw, or thought. He is dead.
Sorry, good try. Anything else?. I never hear any stories of people stopping crime with the 200 million civilian guns out there. It's a myth.
do your own search. lokk for KGW.com and search the site.
Already did. you were wrong. You're a lyin piece of shit like Milie.
sorry sewer mouth, i am right , you , as usual are wrong.
not one example of a civilian gun owner saving anyones life.! not one!
200 million civilian guns providing no added value. it's a testament to the selfishness, and inconsideration. useless, gun toting, selfish, people.
your favorite site wiki.answers.com/Q/How-many-crimes-are-stopped-by-gun-owners if the doesnt work for you do you own seach, key words,..............how many crimes are stopped by gun owners
Ok I'll check for you.
Why can't you attach a link? Maybe you should ask someone who knows how.
exactly
If you Showed less concern for gunowners, and a little for gun victims we might get some real gun safety in place to prevent these kinds of tragedies.
YOU are the problem.
I've used you to make all the points I need to make for the day. Debating with you any further today holds nothing for me, and everybody already knows you're a fraud. I'll let you chime in later when I post another thread on economics.
Listen to moyers and learn!
http://www.nationofchange.org/nra-enabler-death-1355760591
Your lack of concern for the 20 children shot 3 to 7 times each shows you have no heart.
Your concerns thus far have only been in defense of gun owners!!!
The only points you've made is that you are a shill for the gun manufacturers. Profits over people.
You have NO HONOR!!!!
You come on here to disrupt the forum because all the money in politics isn't enough, and you have the nerve to talk about honor? LMFAO.
I can hardly believe this argument exists while the fact of inadequate mental health care is created by a government which is infiltrated and preventing adequate mental health care to protect its secrets and control.
The infiltrators LOVE this!
he always brings up "honor" , its a hollow word for him. more like an epithet.
I challenge dishonest shills for the gun manufacturers in the name of the children slaughtered because of irresponsible gun owners who allow mentally disturbed people access to guns.
You don't care about the 20 children slaughtered you only care about gunowners/gun manufacturers.
Yeah clearly YOU are the one without honor. Dick
Shills for gun mfgs? WHy would anyone shill for them? They own stock? Maybe, but there are only TWO publicly traded gun makers...Ruger and Smith and Wesson. Strangely, none of their guns were used in this rampage. Or Aurora, Or Clackamas.
do you know who wayne lapiere is ? do you know what his annual compensation package is?
fyi -
Who owns Remington Firearms?
Actually, it's Cerberus - like the 3 headed dog that guards the gates of Hades in Greek and Roman Mythology
Cerebus Capital Management, L.P. now owns Remington Arms Cerebus is a company best known for owning airlines (Air Canada), car rental companies (Alamo and National), a bus manufacturer (Bluebird), and banks and lending institutions in Germany, Israel and Japan became an instant player in the firearms industry.
With their acquisition of Bushmaster, Cerebus already was firmly ensconced in the "black rifle" industry. By acquiring Remington, they have a significant presence in every area of the firearms industry - except handguns.
You'de have to ask those who neglect to express appropriate outrage at the irresponsible gun owner, and no regret/compassion for the gun victims.
You know the names of gun mfg, & which are public, how about a name of one the 20 slaughtered children.
Now is the time to remember those victims, & honor the women who threw themselves in front of machine gun fire to save the children they taught.
Those teachers untold numbers of children. The gun owner was clearly irresponsible.
lol, now I'm an NRA shill. Convenient.
NRA. no. I didn't say that. That's more of your blatant lies!!! I said shill for the gun manufacturers. Thr NRA does the same thing.
Like you, they have no honor. They don't 20 children were slaughtered a week before xmas. They only care about protecting gun manufacturers profits.
Why would you bring up the gun manufacturers political wing?
Pry your gun from your dead hand? Acceptable. .
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On the plus side America stands as an example to all other nations, reminding them to never allow guns to get out of hand, many look at us and tighten their laws. American children aren't the only ones, take comfort that our sacrifice severs a lesson to others and many European children are safer because they have heard about the results of not having gun laws.
A war on guns? If it weren't for the fact this title comes up a day after a school was attacked and children died, it would almost be amusing. As it is, it's in poor taste.
It appears that many have an agenda, either pro or con about the subject...yet none wish to enter the area of definition of guns vs the definition of weapons.
Now this is going to seem rather odd, but I have to establish my own 'grounds' from where I plan to present my arguments.
I like my guns. I've several calibers, shotguns, black powder etc. Some have clips, some are single shot, some have 'sliders' (generic term) as in pump models.
The difference between my guns and someone else's weapons is the number of rounds immediately available. In other words a three to five round clip is a gun, once a larger clip (10 and uo) is added, it becomes a weapon.
There are other issues when it comes to the rounds used...ammunition in common terms...the term grain is used when describing ammunition...there are low load grains and high load grains. Low load doesn't make the gun any less dangerous in the hands of the untrained or inexperienced, it just lessens the effectiveness if used as a weapon for the intention of killing at a distance. (look it up please)
I note that Richard Kentgates offers the lack of constructive role models (Yes Richard it's role not roll) for our young men...funny how it's only young men in Richard's scenario that need role models...yet is it role models that we need or 'coming of age rituals'?
We (generic we) have been failing ourselves for decades. We've offered bigger, fancier, and faster weapons, including automobiles yet we offer so little to ourselves in learning personal and societal responsibility. Note that nice phrase, personal responsibility...which in reality has nothing to do with fiances at all.
Even the societies that still have coming of age rituals are lacking in the instruction of personal and societal responsibilities.
As a result we have become inured to the violence that surrounds us, the violence we ourselves commit on almost a daily basis.
We have absconded our responsibilities to those who suffer mental imbalances, toward those who exhibit violence, and those who hide it.
As a result of these actions and lack of actions we are forced to look at other methods of restraining the opportunities for extreme violence, some opportunities which should have not been present in the first place.
As a result of our tendency to view events as not 'touching us', (they always happen to someone else, some place else) we provide yet more of these opportunities without realizing that we have.
The Occupy movement itself is an example of extremes. Peaceful protest disbursed via violent means with attending injuries, and the sometimes destruction of property that accompanies such protests by those who join to take advantage of such opportunities.
We've a political system which actually encourages such events...good people with good ideas are often left behind or never even attempt to enter into the fray.
We cry and gnash our teeth then return to our apathetic lives...some few engage in debate, some enter letter writing campaigns, some engage in more direct methods...yet none of us address the basic issues.
We (generic we) are a lost people. Lost in that adulthood is attained by a number not in experiences. Lost in that our 'codes' are less uniform than our numeracy. We are children until suddenly adulthood with all it's responsibility is thrust upon us, we who have little or no training no guidance as to what that adulthood is.
I like my guns...but I also understand all to well the inherent dangers of owning and handling those guns and that steps are needed to keep those dangers to a minimum for those who surround me.
You left out a single word about the gun victims. "none of us address the basic issue" Did you? The gun owner in question here (shooters mother(RIP)) was grossly irresponsible for having guns accessible to a mentally disturbed individual. The gun owner was irresponsible for bringing the shooter to the gun range.
You described with relish all your guns, ammo, with industry terminology & inside slang, and some meaningless distinction between gun/weapon. huh?
You also spent some time with the unrelated criticism of OWS. But presious liyyle effort addressing the basic issue.
A gun owner (who "liked her guns") was responsible for the slaughter of 20 innocent children and the 6 women (teachers) who died threwing themselves in front of machine gun fire to save other children.
You missed that. Do any mentally disturbed people know you have/have access to the small arsenal you "like" so much?
VQjag2, maybe you should re-read...I did not neglect the victims, the posting topic is 'war on guns', I stayed on topic and demonstrated the difference between a weapon and a simple gun.
I did not criticize OWS, I pointed out the extremes against OWS and some of the potential reasons for it. Noting that we (again generic we) appear to be a nation of extremes.
You really think that there is an indication of the number of guns I have in my home in my post? Cool, must be nice to have extra sensory perception of that caliber.
I understand you have some anger over the events of this past week, I understand that in some way you also hurt and I have no problem allowing you the venting you obviously need to do.
If this topic had been about mental health issues and what should be done about them, I would have written a completely different post, bus since it isn't, I prefer to stay as close to on topic and a moderate stance on it.
By the way, a responsible gun owner who likes their guns also knows to keep the ammunition separated from them and inaccessible to those who should not have them.
So mentioning the outrage of slaughtering 20 7 tr olds is off topic?
Isn't this why the thread exists? Sorry that's weak.
You said:
"The Occupy movement itself is an example of extremes. Peaceful protest disbursed via violent means with attending injuries, and the sometimes destruction of property that accompanies such protests by those who join to take advantage of such opportunities."
This is a criticism, and an unfair, and I would submit inaccurate, and unrelated criticism. THAT is off topic.
So I don't buy your dishonest claim you weren't criticizing OWS. You were, It was off topic, and wrong!
I don't know how many guns you have, & so of course I didn't state how many. To suggest I did isa blatant lie.
However, you said:
"I like my guns. I've several calibers, shotguns, black powder etc. Some have clips, some are single shot, some have 'sliders' (generic term) as in pump models."
So that indicates in my opinion a small arsenal. no ESP required you clearly listed several types and used the plural and the term "some" more than once.
Ok?.
Why don't you just say you don't think the dead children & women do not matter enough for us to engage in a war on guns. Or say it does.
One position is responsible the other is just partisan extremist rhetoric.
Hmmm, I note you are still angry...that's fine, take it out on me, I can take it.
You never asked why I liked my guns...would you like to know? I live in the country. Predators often ravage my livestock, sometimes I need to use one of those guns to mercifully put one of my stock down when it has been injured beyond healing.
I point out the difference between guns and weapons simply because the tendency for those who would be against any type of gun control usually assume it means banning of all guns and rescinding the 2nd Amendment. Which is a far cry from sensible gun control.
When the topic is war on guns, there is no mention of victims, you keep referring to the most recent victims, sadly they are the latest in a very long list of victims. So I went with the topic listed in the title.
I still think you misread the OWS part. I very clearly noted the peaceful protest of OWS and the drastic response but I qualified that there may have been elements that joined OWS with a different agenda, which may have contributed to the drastic response...this was in the nature of noting the extremes we as a nation too often accept from authority. It would follow that there would be those in our society that would presume these types of extremes are acceptable under certain conditions. Which leads us to the implicit notion of mental health issues.
We would possibly be more constructive if we discussed and engaged in a campaign to improve our nations mental health issues than getting upset that a farmer might like to have a gun or two around.
We have agreed on subjects previously and even debated oppositional views from time to time.
Farmers? Please. This gun owner was irresponsible. She knew here son was mentally ill, and had guns accessible, and took him to a shooting range.
He slaughter 20 7 year ols. And the women who dived in front of machine gun fire to protect their kids have nothing to do with farmers.
This ain't about you. It ain't about your narrow minded, inaccurate view of OWS.
It's about putting the irresponsible people who knew of the mentally ill shooter had access to guns and was brought to a shooting range.
Put them (father, brother, aunt, friends of mother) behind bars.ansd we'll see how quick concerned citizens start reporting other potential mass murderers.
Farming? sounds off topic to me!
Vqkag2, I'm so very sorry for your loss...it must be extremely painful and disorientating.
I don't believe you.
You sound more concerned about your own gun "likes" and gun owners rights rather than gun victims!
Put them (father, brother, aunt, friends of mother) behind bars.ansd we'll see how quick concerned citizens start reporting other potential mass murderers.//////////////////////////// You are a moron and the shooter was an adult and responsible for his own actions
He was a 20 year old mentally impaired whose family and friends enabled this to happen by covering, minimizing, and pretending he was functional.
They knew, they encouraged the violent tendencies by having guns accessible, by training his gun use, nurtured gun culture by letting him play violent video games.
Prosecute that negligence, & we will see lots of reports come in, & we WILL prevent mass murders. So fuck you! You're the goddamn moron who defends mass murderers & their enablers!
Guns do not kill moron, people do
Irresponsible gun owners do!
http://www.upworthy.com/10-terrifying-facts-about-guns-in-the-us?c=upw1
Irresponsible gun owners do!////////////////////////////////////////////that is why dummycrats and libtards should not own one
Childish namecalling & unfounded personal attacks simply confirm the impotence of your position.
grow up. You are useless if you can't discuss this most profound issue maturely & intelligently.
Come on now. I'm really looking forward to this new campaign. We aren't allowed to address the lack of constructive roll models for our young men because that is considered sexist by the frauds on this forum. Lets get on this war on guns. This is definitely the solution since none of the frauds on this forum take any responsibility for they violence they subject their children to day after day.
can you end this?
or is it just to hard.