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Forum Post: The United States of Ayn

Posted 1 year ago on May 13, 2013, 11:58 a.m. EST by shoozTroll (17632)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

You can see it coming in every bill the GOP passes, and in ever bill they refuse to act on.

Libe(R)topia!!

Ayn Rand's novel "Atlas Shrugged" fantasizes a world in which anti-government citizens reject taxes and regulations, and "stop the motor" by withdrawing themselves from the system of production. In a perverse twist on the writer's theme the prediction is coming true. But instead of productive people rejecting taxes, rejected taxes are shutting down productive people.

Perhaps Ayn Rand never anticipated the impact of unregulated greed on a productive middle class. Perhaps she never understood the fairness of tax money for public research and infrastructure and security, all of which have contributed to the success of big business. She must have known about the inequality of the pre-Depression years. But she couldn't have foreseen the concurrent rise in technology and globalization that allowed inequality to surge again, more quickly, in a manner that threatens to put the greediest offenders out of our reach.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/ayn-rand-usa-20-years-corporate-profits-are-4x-and-their-taxes-have-fallen-50-meanwhile

You can see it in all of the ridiculous things Heritage says and supports.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/13/1998331/seven-outlandish-things-the-heritage-foundations-remaining-employees-believe/

CATO, Koch Foundation, Reason, and so many more.

ALL in total support of tyranny.

33 Comments

33 Comments


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[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

I really do not understand why people still attempt to use anything from the Heritage Foundation.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

They really like Demint.....................:)

Oh wait! He just got there.

It's gonna get even dumber, buy know FLAKESnews will still promote every word.

It's like the whole front group is a giant "dog whistle".

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 1 year ago

lol dog whistle.

Demint is right where we can see his lying and conniving.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I suggest we keep him high profile around here.

It will drive the wingers nuts, but that's the point................................:)

So few of them understand that it's the whole package that counts, not what's on the surface.

[-] 1 points by elation (-32) from New York, NY 1 year ago

the ayn randists think they are everso competent and skilled because they have used slave labour and such to increase their profits.. in actuality there are many people who are far more competent, wise and far better intentioned than they are. Suffice to say that if atlas shrugged, they would not be missed.. Because the people in said corporations who actually do the real work would just start their own shit free of the shackles of these bastards.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I was so happy to see that Pt II of the Atlas Shrugged movie went straight to video.

[-] 1 points by elation (-32) from New York, NY 1 year ago

ayn randists are out of their mind, it's a completely anti human philosophy of not helping anyone but oneself. everything being privatized even roads so that those who own things can dictate to everyone else if they can use them or not. What's good for the world and the people is the direct opposite of what ayn rand says.

The world doesn't need a few ultra rich "job creators" hogging everything and that does not care about anything but themselves and their profits. It would be richer overall and much better overall with many small businesses and breaking up the massive corporations, resulting in higher wages, more jobs and also less exploitation and debt.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

You mean stuff like this?

There's folks around who won't admit that the Koch's are libe(R)tarian.

http://vltp.net/aleckoch-cabal-pursuing-privatization-postal-service-ups-fedex/

[-] 1 points by Timex (-3) 1 year ago

Bioshock was pretty cool. You have to give them that.

[-] 0 points by elation (-32) from New York, NY 1 year ago

and look how that turned out hehe, that game is almost a satire on the god complexes of ayn randists and what happens with people who get like that. And what they could be capable of doing of horrid things if given the chance.

ayn randists think that only a few are capable of original thought and therefore loathe the "workers" of the middle and lower class which they push down continually so they don't end up working for them. It's self hubris and self deception at it's most ridiculous form.

People with that kind of philosophy has been in charge for quite a while and see how many parts of the worlds are in shambles because of it, even their own back yard, whilst they live in their high rises or gated communities with security guards cowering in fear, because they've made it so shitty for everyone else that that is necessary.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The United States of Ayn

A Living HELL on Earth.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

But it's so very profitable.

"A major U.S. private prison operator known for inmate abuse, violations, and disregard for the truth reported a 56-percent spike in profit in the first quarter of 2013, due in part to its new strategy for drastically reducing its taxes, the Associated Press reports. During a conference call touting its success, representatives at GEO Group boasted that the company continues to have “solid occupancy rates in mid to high 90s” and that they are optimistic “regarding the outlook for the industry,” in part due to a “growing offender population.” GEO Senior Vice President John Hurley assured investors during the call:

We have a longstanding partnership with the Federal Bureau of Prisons, the United States Marshal Service and US Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE. … We continue to see meaningful opportunities for us to partner with all three of these federal agencies, notwithstanding the various issues with the federal budget, which we believe will have no material negative impact on our business. The federal bureau of prisons continues to face capacity constraints coupled with a growing offender population."

It guarantees " a growing offender population"

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/05/09/1990331/private-prison-profits-skyrocket-as-executives-assure-investors-of-growing-offender-population/

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

But it's so very profitable.

Till it all crashes (and profitable only to the Greedy ) and burns due to all of the abuses of the GREEDY.

Greed will be the Death of Greed - unfortunately the Greedy are trying to kill us ALL with their Insane Death Wish.

Greed - profiting off of Human Misery.

GREED THE #1 CAUSE OF DISEASE/DEATH/DESTRUCTION IN THE WORLD.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

The market only reacts by the participants to the extent that the participants realize what is going on.

Take deriviatives for example- no one even knows really what they are. So the chances of them monitoring themselves is highly unlikely.

That being said, they are extremely regulated. Anyone trying to do anything in them has almost no shot of doing it themselves.

So what has happened?

Its a perverse game of regulating the competitions and the little guy, while letting the top players skate free. They literally already have 0 Regulations. None. Nada. They are pillaging the economy and no one is stopping them.

Its why I believe that we need to take agencies like FDA, SEC, etc and make them democratically elected bodies, acting on a local level. As close to the occupy model as humanly possible.

And if its too big to be monitored by the local community, then it needs to cease to exist.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Off subject again and completely ignoring the info in the OP.

Every last word and idea in it.

But.

How do you propose to make the World cease to exist?

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

If you cant see how that relates to the first article, in terms of wrecking the middle class, then you are obviously just being ornery again.

Im assuming you would like people to discuss solutions to your posts, instead of all of us just back patting each other for the rest of eternity?

Maybe?

"Perhaps Ayn Rand never anticipated the impact of UNREGULATED greed on a productive middle class"

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Wait? What??

Are you sticking up for Ms. Rand again?

"But she couldn't have foreseen the concurrent rise in technology and globalization that allowed inequality to surge again, more quickly, in a manner that threatens to put the greediest offenders out of our reach."

Yeah she did. She saw all of it, if she was as smart as some would pretend.

There's a lot of sarcasm involved.

Or maybe she was just a novelist that was a bit full of herself, but the rich folks really liked her.

The truth is, her "philosophy" is still expanding it's reach, under the guise of American Libertarianism.

Ron Paul practices it.

Chomsky has described it.

I call it neolibertarianism, much to your chagrin.

It's the philosophy that has pretty much destroyed what we used to know as the "middle class".

The link on Heritage, shows how they seal the deal, with distractive lunacy. some of which, if enacted, continue to advance that agenda.

Thanks for trying play nice........................:)

I am fully capable of reciprocation.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I dont think the libertarians- and Im talking about the college age ones, not the multi millionaires- understand what my first line in that initial response means. I dont think they realize the extent that the markets get manipulated whether they are heavily regulated as they are now-unless you are in the club- vs a totally free market.

They get manipulated either way.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Have you missed the multiple times I've iterated that "free markets" are a pipe dream?

That they are manipulated from the time of their creation?

You're still not dealing with the massive expansion of libertarianism and it's damaging affects. Worldwide.

Perhaps you should be teaching those college students the truth?

That modern libertarianism, isn't what they think it is.

It's a lesson I had to learn on my own.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Have you missed the multiple times I've iterated that "free markets" are a pipe dream?

That they are manipulated from the time of their creation?

Truth

It has always been captured & controlled markets. Freedom not involved.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Only living creatures can be described as free.

A gold mine is not free, nor is the gold that comes from it.

Bond markets are not free, they are not alive.

Everything we describe as a market is controlled by some person/s somewhere.

There's no way around it.

So the questions become, who should control them, and for what purpose?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22351) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Only living creatures can be described as free.

Yep - and of those only the wild creatures that still survive are really free.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

"It's a lesson I had to learn on my own."

So what was the formula?

And I do think we need to seperate libertarianism from corporatism. Ask anyone in business and regulations are increasing at a dramatic pace, with the government choosing sides and winners more than ever.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Gosh, I've only been talking about it for over a year around here.

You could always start by telling them who runs the US version.

The one I describe as neolibe(R)tarianism.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

I meant your own personal experience. Was it a break through moment, or something that happened over time. Was is simply studying on your own, or did someone else show you what was up?

You understand the reasons for the increases in college age libertarians? Its the actions of Dems and Reps. I think the college kids dont understand consequences on a global level, but its understandable for them to go in other directions when you look at what the current two title holders have done to the country, the planet, the food, the air, etc etc etc.

I personally would like to see them, and everyone else, creating their own unique parties and/or causes, but it just isnt happening.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Exactly, I discovered who founded it and what they were doing, as well as the influence of Ms. Rand.

I listened regularly to a local radio show by a guy named Mark Scott.

A Randian, who taught me how wrong it is to think of altruism as a disease.

[-] -2 points by highlander21 (-46) 1 year ago

Flat tax rate across the board will take care of some of the problem stated in the alternet article; it would necessarily take away the loopholes or deductables for everyone as well. I imagine that might explain some the the lower corporate taxes.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

So says CATO.

Welcome to libe(R)topia?

A flat tax is the most regressive of all.

We've been over this at least a dozen times, and every time a flat tax is proven to be regressive and damaging to the poorest among us.

But all you need is a new troll name to start the same shit all over again.

Keep passing the same lie, just like Ayn want's you too.

[-] -1 points by highlander21 (-46) 1 year ago

I will not concede to the 1% vs 99% idea which by all accounts leads to the vilification of the corporate class and the wealthy. The fact is this, corporations can always find more workers. Workers can not usually come together and come up with the immense capital needed to run these enterprises. A one page tax code would get rid of the deductables that the corporations use, which I thought you would like. And a flat tax is about the fairest tax I can think of. The more a person makes, the more tax they pay. That is it. And if I was a troll, do you think I would use the same name? The powers that be on this site, this supposedly leaderless organization, deem it necessary to silence opposition. And I do not concede very easily. Have a nice day.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Talk to the guys at TurboTax.

However you slice it, a flat tax is regressive.

That won't change, it's a matter of the numbers.

Need I remind you?

LIES are not dissent.

They're just lies.

Repeating lies, does not make them dissent at some point.

They are still lies.

So take you crap about persecution over to theblaze, where they accept that kind of thing.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

"Workers can not usually come together and come up with the immense capital needed to run these enterprises."

Thats why they need to broken up, destroyed, and put in locals hands and locals hands only. Communities can come up with everything they need, they have been doing it since the beginning of time. We dont need huge multinational corporations and rich snotty politicians helping us in any way/shape/form.

[-] -1 points by elation (-32) from New York, NY 1 year ago

what a joke, who do you really think does the work and actually create things?

"The fact is this, corporations can always find more workers. Workers can not usually come together and come up with the immense capital needed to run these enterprises."

absolute horror of an idiot you are.. what you need are good ideas that are beneficial to people. Not immense amounts of capital to make some propaganda media campaign to get people to buy useless shit.

do you think all corporations were bankrolled with a billion dollars? most of them started small once upon a time, by those "workers" you loathe, which turned into ceo's etc. who got the original idea and rallied people around it.

Because if the idea was terrible and nobody had good use for the service or product.. guess what.. company closed.. And you couldn't just have an open door and fire people in a laisess faire fashion saying "i can always get more workers." unless you had some insane capital accrued to draw from.

The problem with mega corporations is their level of exploitation aswell as their ability to crush upstarts by simply having more money than them and waging price wars on them. Even if their idea was better and of better quality. And this often happens in a very dirty fashion, including "forced" mergers. gobbling them up so they don't have to compete. And then becoming owners and sellers of that idea. And increasingly corrupt the more power they get.

TL;DR somehow you have managed to have a perception of how corporations start up, that is completely ass backwards.

[-] 1 points by highlander21 (-46) 1 year ago

hmm. So the government steps in and breaks up the large corporations so the the little people have a chance? I thought there were anti-trust laws that prevented that from happening. More anti-trust laws would be needed then?