Forum Post: the trillion dollar coin solution
Posted 11 years ago on Jan. 4, 2013, 7:05 p.m. EST by bensdad
(8977)
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Lots of people seem to have creative ideas for solving our federal government’s massive debt problem. This afternoon, CNN explored one of the more… umm… whimsical… ones.
“It sounds crazy but some economists, some legal scholars say it is legal and could be done,” CNN reporter Brian Todd explained this afternoon of a strange new proposal to pay off the federal debt by having the Treasury mint a $1 trillion platinum coin. It is legal! ANd depositing the coin in the fed gives the fed one trillion dollars to pay previously contracted for bills. But it will not enable anyone to SPEND more money - just pay the legal debts.
Congressman Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) is behind the plan, saying, “I’m being absolutely serious … It sounds silly but it’s absolutely legal.”
And its better than a worlwide depression.
Todd also spoke to an economist who claimed the coin would be better than a government shutdown or defaulting on the debt.
So, in other words, a trillion-dollar coin is a better option than two of the many dreaded options. Convinced?
An Rs in the house is afraid of this:
With the debt ceiling debate upon us, and deficit reduction approaches remaining a point of contention, some have pondered the creative idea of minting trillion-dollar coins as a fiscal panacea of sorts. And one congressman really isn’t pleased to hear it. Indeed, Greg Walden (R-OR) is planning to introduce legislation to “stop it in its tracks.”
Why tax the rich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc#!
Magic Trillion Dollar Coin May Be Used To Pay Off The National Debt
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnR64bUdfa0
Fixing the debt ceiling with a trillion dollar platinum coin
Make a silly demand, get a silly concession.
http://www.newstatesman.com/economics/2013/01/fixing-debt-ceiling-trillion-dollar-platinum-coin
More legit than the current philosophy. Currently monetary policy is just creating trillions and giving it to banks aka Wall Street. Personally I'd rather abolish the debt, and reform monetary policy to fund social programs, jobs programs, build and improve the country's infrastructure in a way that plans for the future. Similar to kucinich's HR 2990. Said it once and I'll say it again.
I'd appreciate a solid factual answer - if you dont know, thats ok - just say so
I believe the fed gets money to banks by LOANING it to them
not giving it.
True or false???
I believe the fed cannot legally do this in any way to get money to homeowners or small businesses. True or false???
If my 2 options are this option or the current system, I choose this option.
If the option is what I said versus both of the above, I choose HR 2990 because it is way better than both.
Where do you think the banks got the trillions from bensdad? That money didn't exist back in 1900.
I asked you an honest question and got NO answer
If you don't know, admit it!
I believe the fed gets money to banks by LOANING it to them not giving it. True or false???
I gave you an honest answer to your HYPOTHETICAL question.
HR 2990 is way better than what this guy is talking about.
However, both are better in comparison to the current system. Tax dollars are wasted paying interest on debt.
Another idea to reduce debt is ending debt to the federal reserve, which created money out of nothing to buy up government debt.
Edit - Who's the number 1 holder of government debt? - http://finance.yahoo.com/news/biggest-holders-of-us-gov-t-debt.html
Why stop at just one. Crank the mint up and lets do 20 or 30 we can pay off all the debt public and private and then rebuild the world into a paradise.
we have to pay what congress contracts to pay - not what the fed decides to pay. Making 20 of these coins will not "spend" anything.
Spending can only be authorized by congress.
If the fed or president want to spend $5,000,000,000 on a space program to go to Mars, it cannot be done. Even if the fed has 20 of these "coins"
AGAIN- the only purpose of this is to stop the R blackmailers from threatening a world wide depression in order to stop the taxation of the 1% special interests
seriously - you do understand this, dont you ?
haven't we authorized the spending of 16 trillions dollars already? I mean we fucking owe it. I mean if you want to keep the system that is how you do it print your way out. There is no other way. Just continue to export the inflation. Not that I care i would love to see people stand up and just say fuck you i am not paying one cent of this libor manipulated debt.
you are really seeing this incorrectly
I give up
"The 1% Pathology And The Myth of Capitalism", by Dr. Michael Parenti :
fiat lux ...
Yeah. A New York democrat likes the idea. What are the odds?
Putting a trillion in new fiat currency in the market makes every existing dollar less valuable, making everything less affordable. Everyone around the world will lose even more faith in the currency and will refuse to accept it.
By the way, buy as much silver as possible before this happens. Silver is real money, fiat paper shit can not compete with it over time. Then sell it when the fake money is worthless and you'll be rich.
Anything that circumvents the traitorous republicans stated plan to default on the spending they already approved unless we gut the pgms of the 99%
"Do what we say, & nobody get's hurt"
[Deleted]
The Secretary of the treasury is legally entitled to issue any PLATINUM coin in any size or denomination
the law says the secretary of the treasury can make a PLATINUM coin in ANY size and ANY denomination. So he could issue a 1 ounce coin DENOMINATED as $1,000,000,000,000
FYI: platinum is cheaper than gold; gold is cheaper than rubidium.
This $1,000,000,000,000 coin is depositted in the fed and the $1,000,000,000,000 can be used to pay bills the congress already agreed to pay. It does NOT increase spending or the debt. unless you believe the lyan Rs & faux noose.
Jerry Nadler discussed this today on MSNBC
again-
the 14th amendment is a cleaner way to defang the blackmailers
Ain't it sad that people have to invent absurdity upon absurdity in order to correct past absurdities.
Take the advent of this coin argument, and how absurd it is that the treasury has to make a coin to pay the bills because some where along the way Congress absurdly relinquished governmental control over the printing of money.
Before the Fed was created, such an argument would just have seemed absurd.
"Absurdity" your fuzzy ass! I just ordered the 50 state T-coin book and I'm collecting the full set. One day soon these babies is gonna pay off big time, you wait and see, MoFo!
pretty funny.
Oh, you'll see!
So in 1910, if congress & the president decided to spend $100,000,000 to build a warship, the legally contacted bill ( that today would be paid by the fed ) would be paid by who?
And if America, in 1910, did not have the money to pay the bill,
how would it get the money to pay the bill?
I believe they would have used "greenbacks."
This article does a good job of describing the history of our monetary policies.
http://ecclesia.org/forum/uploads/bondservant/greenbackP.pdf
This site is very informative about the difference of opinion about monetary policy during the founding of our federal gov't.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/debates_816.asp#21
I am of the opinion that Congress justified the debt when it appropriated the spending in legislation. And for the minority to use the debt ceiling to 'rebuttal past appropriations, seems chicken shit to me.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q154.html
How we go about paying our bills has been changed a lot throughout the years. A platinum coin is just another permeation of the same old debate.
Shit, look how this country changed from a confederacy to a republic.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_history.html
The ability to create money was a major contributor.
thanx for the great resources
"I am of the opinion that Congress justified the debt when it appropriated the spending in legislation. And for the minority to use the debt ceiling to 'rebuttal past appropriations, seems chicken shit to me."
I call it blackmail - and Obama must STOP it from happening again!
His best chance is the 14th amendment
President Obama should invoke the 14th Amendment to hike the debt ceiling unilaterally as a last resort to prevent a government default, House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said. Pelosi agrees. “It’s his power to do so,” Hoyer told MSNBC. “Very frankly, if it came down to his looking default in the eye or taking this action, as President Clinton said, better to take the action and find out later that perhaps he went beyond his authority but at least protected the credibility of the United States of America,” he said. “The Republicans, through their failure, have given you license to do whatever it takes to not let the American family go down into [the] abyss,” Rep. Xavier Becerra (Calif.), vice chairman of the House Democratic Caucus said.
The republiclans are looking forward to use the threat of a default and worldwide financial disaster to blackmail the President and the Senate into cutting Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.
Many observers of the debt-limit debate have said the 14th Amendment — which states that the “the validity of the public debt … shall not be questioned” empowers the president to raise the debt ceiling without ANY congressional input.
Found this info on the internet with regard to what a "trillion dollar platnum coin" would be like: Laughable at best.
So you want a trillion dollar platinum coin? Ok: here are some facts:
•Platinum has traditionally been the most valuable precious metal for one simple reason: it is rare.
•It is so rare, that all the platinum ever mined could fit into a 25 cubic foot box.
•The weight of that box comes out to just over 16 tons: this is how much platinum has been mined since the start of time.
•A coin valued at $1 trillion and made out of platinum would, at today's price of $1557/ounce, weigh in at 642.3 million ounces.
•642.3 million ounces is also roughly 18 thousand tons, or about 1100 times more than all the platinum mined.
In other words, putting a coin that is worth $1 trillion in perspective to all the platinum ever mined, would look something like this
the law says the secretary of the treasury can make a PLATINUM coin in ANY size and ANY denomination. So he could issue a 1 ounce coin DENOMINATED as $1,000,000,000,000
FYI: platinum is cheaper than gold; gold is cheaper than rubidium.
This $1,000,000,000,000 coin is depositted in the fed and the $1,000,000,000,000 can be used to pay bills the congress already agreed to pay. It does NOT increase spending or the debt. unless you believe the lyan Rs & faux noose.
Jerry Nadler discussed this today on MSNBC
again-
the 14th amendment is a cleaner way to defang the blackmailers
Do you really think anyone will buy it? Well maybe if they put the profile of Obama on it someone might.
Jerrold should be removed from office immediately for obvious reasons.
Would this coin be backed by a trillion dollars worth of platinum? Or would it be another government round toit token?
This is an invention that does NOT get SPENT.
SPENDING ONLY occurs if the House & Senate & President authorize it
At some date within the next few weeks, legal debts authorized by congress & the President MUST be paid.
Just like threatening over this issue a few months ago cost us our top credit rating & billions of dollars - This "trick" will defang the blackmailers
BUT
the 14th amendment is a much better solution
So, in other words, this is just another method of printing our way out of debt? What keeps our government bonds being sold is the belief that we are good for our payments. In other words, faith, which can be a thin thing indeed
This is NOT PRINTING our way out of debt -
unless you believe the faux news and the Rs - It does not spend any money It does not add to the debt
If you go to a restaurant and order a meal for $1000, you have spent the money. Wnen the bill comes, you owe the money YOU agreed to pay. If you dont pay, it does not mean you did not previously spend it.
And if every customer did this, they would all go to jail - and the restaurant would go out of business.
If this is not solved, the President will have to decide who to pay.
We could cut social security by 50% or medicaid or he could decide to pay the salaries of Democrats and none of the Rs
BUT
I think the stakes are so high, that he will use the 14th amendment to stop the blackmail
If you go buy a ring for $500 & pay with a Visa card-
does Visa pay for the ring?
$500 for a ring? cheap.
ha ha
again - who PAYS for the ring ?
Visa or YOU ?
I do.
exactly -
and no matter how many $1T coins are "in" the fed - the fed can only pay bills authorized by congress
Just call it a trillion dollar PIZZA...same thing. Made up money...imaginary dollars...but asshole liberals here believe it works. You Never did and never will understand economics.
Hey everyone.. LOOK!....I got a quadrillion dollar coin.....see how shiny it is. I'd like to buy stuff with it.