Forum Post: The ten lies OWS promote.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 9, 2011, 5:33 p.m. EST by RayinPenn
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1) The government is supposed to supply all my needs. A job, health benefits,, disaster relief, etc. Truth: The government has been and will always be the worse provider for anything. Inefficient and bloated they will waste money every time. The governments main job is to provide an environment where people will be left to their own devices to succeed or fail. The more they are envolved with anything the greater the likelihood of failure. 2) The government should pay my student loans. Reality: Choosing an expensive college is a personal decision. If you choose to take on the debt it's your burden not societies. 3) We represent the 99%. Reality: More like less than 1%.
can't even count. you got up to 3. thats not ten. ows does not promote any of that.
Number 3. yes, that one is true. the other two are garbage.
Here are some truths for you Ray: There has been a massive wealth redistribution going on for 30 years right under your nose. The top 1% now controls over 42% of all of our nation's wealth and the top 10% now controls over 70% of all of our nation's wealth. The bottom 50% controls less than 2% of all of our Nation's wealth.
The middle class spends their wealth on goods/services and the corporations have redistributed their wealth by paying their profits all out to the executives and shareholders. Middle class wages have stagnated for 30 years while executive wages have gone up 256% in since 1980. Even last year executive compensation went up another 11%. All of our nation's wealth has been redistributed into the hands of the few.
The middle class was roped into replacing wages with easy credit and loans. So instead of paying people living wages, corporations fooled us into thinking we were doing well and could afford things by giving us easy credit instead of wages. Instead of having wages to buy t.v.'s, furniture, etc. we were given easy loans. So the middle class became a debtor class.
There used to be a tax disincentive to paying out all of corporate profits at the top because in the 1950's income was taxed at 90% over a certain amount money and now that tax disincentive has disappeared. In 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. In 1960-1970's it was 70%. In 1980's it dropped to 49%. In 1990's dropped to 39%. Under George Bush it dropped to a mere 36%. We have had over 30 years of massive tax cuts for the wealthy.
There is now no tax disincentive to paying out all of the corporate wealth at the top. And there is no employee bargaining power because now less than 12% of all of our jobs are unionized. Corporate profits are at an all time high, healthcare company profits are at an all time high, and oil profits are at an all time high. We don't have a healthcare crisis we have a healthcare company profit-taking crisis that no politician will doing anything about. Healthcare and oil companies have enjoyed a decade of record profits while we have had a decade of massive premiums for little coverage and a decade of outrageous gas prices.
The problems are: 1) deregulation of the banks by the Republican-controlled congress in 1999; 2) hedge funds are exempt from regulation; 3) tax system no longer has a disincentive against paying outrageous executive salaries (highest marginal tax rate has dropped from 90% to 36%); 4) commodities market is exempt from regulation (Republican-controlled Congress exempted it in the Commodities Future Modernization act of 2000); 5) the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited funds in campaign elections (thus politicians on both sides favor the wealthy/corporations) and 6) the rise of corporate/billionaire propaganda media "news." Because of the need to raise massive sums in politics today, we no longer have a party that represents the people. The Democrats have to chase the corporate and big money donors too.
What can we do about this: 1) re-instate Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banks; 2) regulate hedge funds and the commodities market (because the commodities market is not regulated speculation has caused prices for commodities to go through the roof); 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads); 4) get rid of 1980's laws stating that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits; and 5) regulate "news" channels and newspapers (no more "slanted opinion news" masquerading as hard news) and reinstitute the fairness doctrine across all news outlets to ensure that both sides get equal time.
Corporations should have duties to society and to their workers too. They should have to balance their duties to maximize shareholder profits against their reinstated duties to their employees and to society. The laws saying that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits have led to the destruction of long-term business plans and care for their workers and have created short-term profit monsters at the expense of workers and society.
Here is some support for this from conservative sources for conservatives like you: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703992704576307332105245012.html
http://heritageinstitute.com/governance/compensation.htm
THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
RayinPenn , none of us believe the government is supposed to supply our needs. More likely we believe we assign people to work in government to make sure no one abuses someone else's needs. The population is quite large, we can not see everyone at all times. We assign people to do the work of looking around to keep an eye on CHEATERS!!!
Things are not about all this and what your country must do for you, it is after all about what you should do for your country ;) The best for your country and any other country is not the way it is going now.
Wall Street / banks are gambling away money and when they lost everything then they are 'too big to fail' and your tax payers money goes to their luxurious pockets. They lost the money, let them go bankrupt
Hey Ray, I'm not sure who's promoting those lies, but it's not OWS.
I do think that student loans shouldn't be exempted from bankruptcy... but that is neither here nor there.
OWS is about fixing the corruption in the system. It's about achieving goals that 99% of Americans can agree on.
NO ONE EXPECTS THE GOVERNMENT TO PROVIDE JOBS!!!!
You're correct. It's not the government's place to provide jobs. BUT, if you believe that, than you also have to say that it's not the government's place to take away jobs. The government has sat by silently while American companies have shipped out our manufacturing and service industry jobs. Their passive approach has led to the decline in the middle class and this HUGE unemployment problem. So the government ALLOWED this to happen.
Health benefits: As far as I'm concerned, IT IS A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT to expect healthcare. I'm always so shocked to hear people say, "that's your problem". In all of mankind's evolution; we still leave the sick to die??? We're better than that and a government "for the people, by the people" means exactly that; we take care of each other.
Disaster relief: Are you kidding? This is one of the most basic functions any government should supply.
Student loans: I don't want the government to pay my student loans BUT, I'll tell you this; gas goes up, food goes up, interests rates go up, basic needs go up, and wages are going down. That student loan payment is now a much greater percentage of my total income than it ever was and that a PURELY to be blamed on government and corporations and the greed that runs both while I, and people like me suffer. You're right; I decided to take that loan but I did so on the promise that if I worked hard I could achieve anything. We don't live in that America anymore. We live in the America where I work hard, make someone else filthy rich while I go home to my paycheck to paycheck life that gets increasingly harder to maintain for reasons FAR outside my control. I WANT TO CONTROL MY LIFE. I WANT TO BE THE ONLY DECIDER OF WHETHER OR NOT I'M SUCCESSFUL. NOT THE GOVERNMENT. NOT CORPORATIONS. ME!
Wow you are a whiner, you blame everyone but your self. Why is it that so many continue to flourish despite all your supposed obstacles? In fact 85%continue to live well
Whining is 'complaining without action'. This is far from that. And please find me 85% of our population who continue to "live well".
YOU, go out and stop 100 people on the street and ask them, "how's your life going?" FIND ME 85%. YOU, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, IS STUCK IN YOUR OWN LITTLE BUBBLE REFUSING TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON. YOU'RE IN TROUBLE MY FRIEND.
Well at least we are friends.
Haha. I'm friends with everyone. Even if we disagree.
When does 3 turn into 10? When trolls do the math!
I thought you said 10? I do agree with your 1 and 2. Some of the OWS is people expressing their frustration with the status quo.
True, Government (and Business) are ineffective and inefficient, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Troll
Troll
What is it that we are fighting for? The end of Capitalism? American communism? What is with all of the isms?
Let me tell you what I am fighting for. I am fighting for a global economy that is based on all of the natural resources of the planet. I am fighting for a true democracy that is detached from profit-seeking institutions. I am fighting for the principals that America was truly founded upon; not the principals that Michelle Bachman, John Boehner, or Barack Obama understand. I lump all current politicians into one category: evil. Lacking morals. Lacking conscience.
I understand our problems to be so immense that if a true progressive took office he would not muffle them, nor elongate their existence. I do not believe that Barack Obama is fighting for the populous.
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
Viva la Resistance!
And I'm fighting you because you are part of the 15% that are just freeloading, useful idiots of a occult Marxist regime. You're a puppet. At least the corporations are in with one motive---profit.
OWS on the other hand is part of the Marxist takeover America. It will not work, you will fail. And back to the hacky sack and Xbox for you.
[Deleted]
Translation: I'm a rich, spoiled bastard that's never held a real job, never paid taxes, and doesn't 'own' shit. Or, you're just a liar. Take your pick. I'm still giggling at your post.
So articulate from an International Business Major from a 'top ranked' institution. Harvard? Princeton? Yale? Mommy and daddy's money has been so well spent.
Re-translation: I am a part of the upper-class, though I want an equal world. The point was not to prove that I'm a rich spoiled bastard, it's to prove that there are educated, wealthy individuals behind this movement who could give a fuck less about their socio-economic status.
You're a laugh riot. What do you think these Marxist ass wipes are going to do to you and you're family? Do you understand the bullshit your Ivy League teachers (professors is to refined a term for these half wits) hand you?
Marx, Keynes, MLK, Mao, they were not for you. You're a fool. I built my wealth from nothing and I have no intention of sharing it with hippy half wits and trust fund brats like you.
You will lose this fight, it's guaranteed. Look at the USSR in its final days, that's your glorious collective.
Let me tell you what I am fighting for. I am fighting for a global economy that is based on all of the natural resources of the planet. I am fighting for a true democracy that is detached from profit-seeking institutions. I am fighting for the principals that America was truly founded upon; not the principals that Michelle Bachman, John Boehner, or Barack Obama understand.
I am not Capitalist, Communist, Socialist, or any other ist you can think of. I am for a nation of, by, and for the people. I'm so fucking sorry that I was born into a family that values education. You don't know what's coming, but whatever it is...I'm not worried. How bout you? Scared? Worried that shit will hit the fan and you will be a useless piece of shit that society could give a fuck less about? We'll see whose laughing at the end of the day.
You're the one that's worried. Because if this becomes an actual fight, you won't have the stomach for it. You and your ilk will throw the first punch and we, The People, will finish it.
You little pricks love tossing stink bombs, Maltov cocktails, but you're not fighters. And when push comes to shove and you start violence with us, the average Americans trapped in your pathetic little drama to 'change the World' you'll get your ass whipped so fast you won't no what hit you.
I assure you. Your side will turn violent. It's inevitable. You can't deal with the frustration of being ignored and laughed at. You lack the maturity and resolve of real patriots and freedom fighters like Washington, Payne, and Jefferson.
Oh friendly reminder, Gandhi, MLK, Lenin, all failed!
Alright sir, I respect your opinion because you are a fellow human being. I don't disagree that this movement at some point will go violent. When you are a movement that is directly confronting a fascist regime...it's kind of inevitable. On the other hand, you're wrong because you never mastered the art of thinking.
Thanks for making my point. There is no art to thinking, that's the fallacy of your own thought process. Dogma and laughable indignation.
Dickhead- I didn't disagree with you. Your point is so-fucking-wise: non-violent protest leads to violence when you clash with the police. Thanks for making my point: there is an art to thinking.
Perhaps there is an art to thinking. Unfortunately, you don't have a brush----or even a crayon.
You just lost. "There is no art to thinking, that's the fallacy of your own thought process. Dogma and laughable indignation." Ouch, sucks to be you; check mate.
Oh the last bastion of the pseudo-intellectual---chess references. You're just sad and pathetic. Debating you is like pissing in the ocean, it feels good, but it's really accomplishing nothing.
You're buried under your own hubris. You're twenty, you've got it all figured out, right? Affluent and educated at a 'top tier' school. Come see me in twenty years, a dollar bill says you will hang your head in shame of this 'movement'.
Your peeing in the ocean shit makes literally no sense. Also, I'm glad you feel the know-how to evaluate the next 20 years of my life.
How old are you? What is your occupation? How much do you make? How many people in this world care about your existence?
I don't give a fuck about any of the aforementioned questions, please don't answer them. If we're going to blindly assess each others lives:
You live a dull life trying to shit on the dreams of revolutionaries. (Don't call me a revolutionary, I don't give a fuck.) Just know that you live a sad existence and will accomplish nothing for the good of mankind. I'd love to meet up so that I could punch you in the face and call you my bitch, but I'm not going to do that because you are merely another computer troll.
Nice sound bite but no substance...
Project Earth: A Resource Based Economy Explained http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
Let think, what country shall we emulate?
America: 1776.
The corporations act as the modern day British Empire, and we must break free.
Let's think what country shall we emulate
Well said.