Forum Post: The Tea Party are the 99%
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 11:58 p.m. EST by L0tech
(79)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Much as we might disagree with the right wingers, a lot of us here on this site are failing to see how similar our (short term) goals should be.
While there are plenty of Glen Beck zombies out there on the right, many of them want to see the same reforms we do, and a return to democratic rule. While free health care, free education, financial reform, and a large, "open source" government will not blow their skirts up, you'd have a hard time finding any of them who don't want the money and special interest out of goverment.
If this movement is to succeed in making a difference, we may need to shelve some of our more liberal goals temporarily to focus as a NATION on the first step that many of us agree must come before all else.
We might also find them as strong allies in bringing jobs back home.
A good point, I think. Why not find the common ground that the 99% and the Tea Party can agree on, and pound away at those issues together?
We can not bow down or pander to the right. Hate to say it but the majority of the Tea party people are mindless drones fighting to turn them self into slaves. They are forever brainwashed and lost. The few Republicans that can still think for them self, they will wake up sooner or later and will be welcomed with open arms.
I agree that the right wingers are a little more of a problem today, but I believe that the left is incapable of being a check on them. That combination is opening up a big political hole that needs to be filled by something that is neither right nor left. They have both gotten too extreme and have marginalized themselves. There have been political forces that have tried and failed to fill the gap as it grew over the years (it is not a new thing, the hole is just getting bigger).
We have a fair number of mindless hippies. Does that make the rest of us less?
Does pandering to any political party sound good to you ? Seriously, this is not about left or right. Why would the OWS pander to the Tea Party ? If they figure it out then can join and support the movement. If they choose to be mindless Glenn Beck and Fox news drones then that's their problem.
Isn't excluding the Tea Party because of political affiliation pandering to us liberals? Isn't denying them a chance to participate here an act of politicizing this movement?
I didn't say exclude them.
I did say ... "If they figure it out then they can join and support the movement. If they choose to be mindless Glenn Beck and Fox news drones then that's their problem."
And
"The few Republicans that can still think for them self, they will wake up sooner or later and will be welcomed with open arms."
I guess I was confused with your wording.
But I don't think explaining to tea partiers (yes even Glenn Beck viewers) ways our interests are aligned is pandering. To me, pandering would be convincing the Tea Party to join us because... we don't like gay marriage. Or... we are pro-life.
It's all good. =) What goes threw my head and what i mean doesn't always translate well when i type it out. Anyway, I'm not against explaining to Tea party members what this is all about either. What i am against is trying to force them to listen. Going to their websites and pushing our views on them... Something that has been happening.
Amen.
You are confusing "pandering" with recruiting, and realism. We have common goals. Use them. Gain allies for the things that are TRULY 99%. The rest is really up to democracy, but until we actually HAVE democratic power as a people, you're just going to have to back off on the hatin' for a while.
No, trying to get them to join up for any reason is pandering. If they figure it out, great ! i would welcome them with open arms. If they can't... Do we need people that are so ignorant they believe what Glenn Beck said a couples days ago ? " The OWS protesters are coming to drag you into the streets and ((( kill ))) you. "
Do we really need people that are that ignorant ?
Nationalize the fed!
Right or left doesn't matter. Right or wrong matters.
As a Tea Partier, I couldn't agree more. Look, I hate taxes and big government because all I see is governmental corruption on a massive scale. A big portion of it stems from the influence of special interests. If we stand together to reduce the corruption in government and make the government more efficient and trustworthy, then we can have a conversation about what things the government should be doing with our tax dollars.
Let's talk about Obamacare for a second. How can you trust a government who starts off if with a laudable (albeit financially insolvent) desire for single-payer healthcare and then ends up essentially mandating that every citizen must buy the product of a private corporation (health insurance). Do you think corporate interests corrupted that process? You betcha.
You sir (or madam) just made me cry a little.
As for "Obamacare"... eh. FAR from a perfect or acceptable solution. If he had inherited a budget surplus, I think the health care issue would have been crafted into something that actually made sense. As things were (are), they only started the conversation, so to speak. What is in place now is a strategic time bomb that either a) must be repealed completely by a conservative party (which will be political suicide), or b) be vastly improved upon by future legislators.
Whether this was the proper "hill to die on", for Obama is another matter altogether. If he had made a jobs/recovery/political reform plan his magnum opus in years 1-2, whether it ended perfectly or not, he would have secured my vote for the coming election.
Yeah! Thanks for your input and thank you for being involved, despite what the talking heads say about us.
I love that.... shelve your liberal goals TEMPORARILY. Your liberal goals will BANKRUPT this country morally and financially so you say fix everything first then come back and start the destruction again later on. Brilliant.... they don't call it "progressive" for nothing
As I understand it, anyone who's bank account has less than 3 commas before the decimal point is part of the 99%.
Hey all, this is Areapolitik from The Jefferson Tree.
If we want to see real reform The Tea Party should join hands and support OWS... I joined The Tea Party when it began but left once it showed that the radical right-wing extremist had taken control. Do not let any side take control of this movement. If you were FOR the Tea Party when it began, then saw the change take place, then you know what I am talking about.
Personally I find fault with both political parties. Neither is doing the job they were elected for. They place corporate greed along with their own ahead of what is good for the country. The bottom line is, our political party system is broken. They are all puppets of the corporations who have taken America away from The People.
So much needs to be done and yet nothing is being done. The fox is in charge of the hen house.
As a centrist, I deplored partisan divide and seek to combine extreme views into workable solutions.
The only way we will ever have a chance to take back America from today's greed motivated corporations is to give the power back to the people. That is why I support Occupy Wall Street.
http://www.thejeffersontree.com/
True. Many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.
they complain about the same thing (health care is screwed up for one) but have different reasons/solutions. i think that before those that lean left throw out their answers of 'free' health care they need to look more into how health care got this way - it ain't a free market that married health care to employment for one.
Will I couldn't agree more with this thread! check out http://teaoccupyunited.com for bringing what you said focus us as a "nation"! great way to put it ;-)
As a liberal and active debater with the tea-party community, I whole-heartedly agree with you.
We want to put back $ONE BILLION into the pockets of unbanked consumers who are being robbed by check cashing stores. We want to show corporate America that a business can be viable and profitable without being greedy. We need your help in order to get our social enterprise started.
Please visit our website www.mobilenationcards.com We need 10,000 sign ups
Glen Beck .,he is loosn it ,he saying thoses people are on drugs and dirty like rates .,the same word gadafiy used
that's a laugh...surely you jest...Perhaps 10% of Tea Party members are true to American beliefs....the other 90% are corporate trolls.
You make a great point up until the end... The world economy has far exceded the days when we were a nation of factories. It doesn't make sense for us to bring old jobs back to the USA because our economy and nation as a world player should embrace the developed economic method... Job creation in science, technology, and education. Sure we need manual labor jobs here but they should not be for things where we do not have a competative edge. Research the economies of the Asian Tigers. Korea as an example has no resources outside of people. They have been able to capitalize on this through refinement of the people through the enormous amout of money the government spends on education. They went from below the gdp of ghana in th 50s to the world 9th largest economy. This is a succesful job creation method for this point in history and for the future. Please don't push for jobs that cant compete in the world market. It will only secure economic failure for our country.
And this is the other half of the jobs problem. Nationally, our education has continued to fall behind, yet those in power are completely happy with this. What SHOULD be a response of moral outrage from large businesses that are unable to find the skills they need locally has actually translated to "Oh well, we can get them cheaper, and pay fewer taxes by outsourcing."
If you are happy with this as US policy, you really need to wake up. What is left behind at home is an underpaid, underemployed, uneducated mob. What do you think a mob of 300million people is going to do once they are truly truly convinced they've been left out in the cold?
It's sad to see that you have so little belief in our ability to adapt, survive and thrive. Regardless of your belief, if we begin demanding the skills from our own workforce, our entire country will become stronger. The status quo will only lead to anarchy.
I wish they finish high school ,but I can not say who:)
while we are at it, we should see how much satan is offering for our souls! Unless the tea party can agree with 99.9% of the agenda they can stay home as far as I'm concerned
fall so easly
know your enemy watch fox news.,,now they are panicing mode we are the majorty and remember the arab spring they full so easly
Make Corporations Responsible for Communities at large... they need to be responsible actors in this game - they need to be forced to change ... Read Neale Walsh ... says it perfectly ... any corporation - all employee salaries are visible - each knows what each is making... cap the salary level where above this any profits get cut - percentage to the work force... percentages to management - they get paid more for a reason and are not hourly for a reason- they are paid high enough already to make the hard decisions... workers making the product, workers keeping the quality high and making management happy deserve the biggest bang... now once you have that you take another percentage and GIVE to programs - GIVE to charity ... you make your American Corporations RESPONSIBLE - put this into legislation - ADD THIS TO OUR LISTS OF DEMANDS: CHANGE EXISTING Legislation - we need to see Banking Regs change - we need to change the SEC rules and regs... we need to change the way corporations are allowed to do business. THEY MUST be made into responsible bodies that support their communities... Make Corps Responsible to the Communities at large...
to understand the mindset of the tea party demographic, you need to watch a movie called Red Dawn. this stuff was drilled into them their entire lives. most of them went thrue drills like kids do now in school for fires, and tornadoes, but they also had to endure the drills for a nuclear attack. this was as much a fear then as now, maybe more. ww2 was still kinda fresh, the science and the political of it was a lot less clear. it was fkn freaky. all of this is made clear by the movie Red Dawn. so when they see these guys out there with socialist and communist flags, you guys are freak'n them out. try to look at things a little less clinically if you really want to cross that bridge.
I am nothing like the Tea Partiers. They are herd animals that cannot think for themselves. They abhor the consumer driver economy and want to punish anyone who is not taking every dime they have out of the economy and putting it into a bank account, which they actually think will be good for the economy, because 'saving is good and spending is bad'. They over-generalize this way and think they understand the economy, what a joke. The truth is that smart spending is good, and dumb spending is bad. Savings is good microeconomically, savings is bad macroeconomically. A person should save. A society should reward spending.
I heared The tea party got high jacked by the republican party.They should of went as a separate independent party making it a third party.We need a third party to represnt We the People the 99% so we all can vote for them to put into office.
So many potential third parties have been tried, but they almost always get highjacked by nutjobs and run into the wastebasket of history. It is so important to have powerful and rational voices leading something. I have read many posts here that indicate that the OWS movement will remain leaderless and I do not know if there is an example of that having been tried before. It will be interesting to watch what happens.
This is not my petition, for the record, but I think it might appeal to everyone.
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
they will hayjack the movemnet
/me envisions large bales of hay being tossed out of helicopters at running protesters
I am sure you are not one of 1%
Hehe... I'm sure there are people with lots of money and humor out there, a few anyway... :) Or wait, were you calling my joke less than witty? looks suspicious, trips over shoelaces, looks more suspicious :D
hehe i see your point:) remember itis global movement so stop making joke of my english :))))))
Only in shared fun; bravo for being multilingual :) Oh, I guess I'm assuming that, but if so, good for you!
You something else,Thanks!!
:D Too many people shitting on each other these days, my pleasure to actually be decent to someone. Pass it on :)
Taking the money and special interests from our govt? I'd vote for that!!!
I think the goals are being formed by a democratic process, that all thoughts are welcome, but the most important to all, and majority concerns will prevail. YOu have to start with the most important, and get representation from our government, and regulate financial, then talk to each other and go by majority. That is the democratic way, not right or left. I am independent.
Then get the Tea Party to Zuccotti park and help them out!
I like this Venn diagram
http://wac.0873.edgecastcdn.net/800873/blog/wp-content/uploads/OWSvsTP.jpg
Exactly! I guarantee that there are quite a few other issues with similar overlap. Let's face it. Kumbayaa liberal utopia is not an option here people. It's that sweet sweet middle ground that we CAN make a reality.
What is free? How do you get something for free? Someone has to provide those things. In order for one person to get something for free the person who provides them would either have to give them up of their own willingness or they would have to be forced to do so. Whether it be the actual good or service or the means to purchase the good or service so it can be provided. In the case of force being used those who are providing are no longer free but enslaved. I have not issue with charity but the idea of a good or service being free is not a nice one to me. Someone somewhere paid for it and deserves just compensation for it. If that's not the case you are just trading one nice thing for one person for one tyrannical thing for another.
By "free" I of course mean funded 100% through our government; i.e. we as a nation pay for it through proper allocation of our tax system. Education and health SHOULD be just as important to us as a nation as roads, firefighters, and public safety. Again, this is a heavily "liberal" stance, though, and relies upon a very "liberal" belief that a reformed, functional representative government is the proper way to fund services that "everyone should have".
I believe that everyone should have access and opportunity not that everyone should have entitlement to everyone else's resources. Once you entitle people to someone else's resources you enslave those who must provide to those who are consuming via the force of government. However I do believe society has a responsibility to help each other but that should be done by the choice of individual communities and through private cooperatives and such. Just think what a difference all the Hollywood movie stars could make if they just put their money where there mouths are on the healthcare issue.
Would you say that it were fair to give a "free" education to everyone who currently qualifies for a scholarship? I get your point about leeches and entitlement, and would be happy with some protection from that, but disagree that it should not be a national responsibility.
I would be happy with a system that allows people to keep much more of their earnings thus making it easier for students to "work their way through school" as I did, and allowing for more charitable organizations to provide for needy students, and for co-ops to be started easily in order to for help to be given to those in need. When government takes by force people tend to sit on their wallets much more. When people have more they tend to give more.
I am content with <1/3 of my earnings going to a govt that utilizes it intelligently, and prioritizes issues that we as a nation have voted for. I am HIGHLY discontented with the way and the efficiency it is currently spent, but I do not agree that 5%, 10%, or 20% more money in my hands will benefit me more than in the hands of the people. Again, this is reliant on voter direction of funds, however. Let's just say that we agree to disagree on this very "liberal" issue :)
This was not the point of this thread. I am looking for common ground here.
I'm ok with that we can agree to disagree.
Well then start looking for more common ground, and help push this movement along, will you? I won't die if you get tax reform passed, and you won't die if it I reform the way current taxes are spent.
We both have a decent chance of dying if this country continues to be ruled by the 1%. Another decade or two of the status quo could easily lead to a civil war.
You are right and don't get me wrong reforming how our taxes are spent is a step in the right direction in my opinion. I also agree that we are in a very bad way now and we need to find common ground and fix at least some of our problems. I think we should start by getting government out of business and business out of government. I don't believe we can do it one way and not the other because the door is still open to the same corruption if only one is done.
I'm in full agreement with this. Whether the future leans more liberal or conservative should be up to us as voters. As of right now, our voice is drowned out by dollars.
I would love to see some proposals on how to get government to ease up on small business, but the chant of "get government out of our way" is too broad, between you and me. It's too applicable to the people who have gotten us into this mess.
Now if everyone else can do what we just did we can get this moving somewhere.
correction: the tea party is a creation by the 1% to brainwash (if more is even possible) right wingers.
And yet the people, misguided or not, are the 99%.
Remember that, too. We still share the country with them.
Forget their Tea Party allegiance. To fix the system, Occupy still needs to rally them as fellow citizens.
i agree with this. This is a formidable challenge though, considering that corporations->republicans->tea party->people. They'll resist.
I still say there are MANY Tea Partiers who are rather pissed that their movement was absorbed by the GOP. They will be the first to join us. If we can stay on message, and hold off a while on the truly "liberal" agenda items, the rest will follow.
Nothing worth doing is easy!
Agreed
true
ows from start has been democratic and all republicans do nothing but demonize the movement read the signs listen to the people and see tax rich get money out of politics end wars have never been backed by republicans tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the occupy wall street message
I disagree from the moment you say all republicans. I am usually a "Democrat" voter simply because their overall values mesh better than the alternative. That doesn't mean I don't find it highly offensive to be labeled a "Democrat" or a "liberal".
BOTH parties are currently consumed by the greed that lies at the top. many 99%ers with conservative values will vote Republican, but are similarly offended by being labeled "Republican". The Tea Party started out as a movement that grated against the Republican party just as much as the Democratic party. We need to pull them back to their grass roots. They will never buy into a completely liberal system, but we have many common goals.
The truth always lies somewhere in between. Compromise between us and them for as long as we can find things to agree on will do far more for our nation than just pushing for candy canes and sugar plums.
stop blaming both sides as equal that is misleading and people like you who take 99% out of context we mean we are the real americans not the so called tea party who said they speak for the average american
At one point they DID speak for the average American... the average conservative American. If you think you can overthrow or disenfranchise half the population... I'd say you don't really like this whole "democracy" thing very much.
Both sides ARE equal in that they have allowed corporate interest to direct their politics. The republican base has much better ties to the 1%, true, but the democrats, as a party have been scrambling just as hard for their handout scraps in the last few decades.
finally you admit that republicans are more to blame
I don't think I said that. But if it makes you happy to think so, by all means.
you just wrote that they have more ties to the 1%
I hope Iran kicks our ass, I hate America. I will protest until I get more free shit and drugs and tattoos. For free.
too obvious dude. you get no points, not even for post modern pointilism.