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Forum Post: the tao

Posted 8 years ago on July 19, 2012, 5:33 p.m. EST by thetao (15)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Govern your country with integrity, Weapons of war can be used with great cunning, but loyalty is only won by not-doing. How do I know the way things are? By these:

The more prohibitions you make, the poorer people will be. The more weapons you possess, the greater the chaos in your country. The more knowledge that is acquired, the stranger the world will become. The more laws that you make, the greater the number of criminals.

Therefore the Master says: I do nothing, and people become good by themselves. I seek peace, and people take care of their own problems. I do not meddle in their personal lives, and the people become prosperous. I let go of all my desires, and the people return to the Uncarved Block.

taoism is the only way forward. several translations are here: http://www.duhtao.com/translations.html



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[-] 3 points by jph (2652) 8 years ago

the tao that can be told is not the true tao,. .

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

The Tao Unspoken,

Reveals 'The Line Unbroken'.

Meditate now upon 'time' and 'love'

Out there & inside, as below - so above.


momento mori et amor vincit omnia ...

[-] 3 points by jph (2652) 8 years ago

Surrender yourself humbly; then you can be trusted to care for all things. Love the world as your own self; then you can truly care for all things.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Surrender yourself humbly -

Then you can be trusted to care for all things.

Love the world as your own self -

Then you can truly care for all things.


(Please excuse my cheeky edit/rearrangement)

pax et lux ...


[-] 1 points by thetao (15) 8 years ago

ive never read that. this is a chapter of the tao te ching, i didn't write it. i also recommend zen mind, beginner's mind

As soon as you see something, you already start to intellectualize it. As soon as you intellectualize something, it is no longer what you saw.

Shunryu Suzuki-roshi (1905 - 1971)

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

Good to see your curmudgeonly yet necessary scepticism and acerbic wit back around these parts.

Hope that you're well.

pax et lux ...


[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

LoL 'ZD' x 2 ! I agree with the first two but not the last two !!

'Grumpy' was more along the lines of what I was really thinking !!!

pax et lux ...


[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 8 years ago

I'm kinda speechless !!

So for you in memory of your 'Gramps',

I abridge below :

  • "Still I Rise"

by Maya Angelou.


You may write me down in history

With your bitter, twisted lies,

You may trod me in the very dirt

But still, like dust, I’ll rise.


Does my sassiness upset you?

Why are you beset with gloom?

‘Cause I walk like I’ve got oil wells

Pumping in my living room.


Just like moons and like suns,

With the certainty of tides,

Just like hopes springing high,

Still I’ll rise.


Did you want to see me broken?

Bowed head and lowered eyes?

Shoulders falling down like teardrops,

Weakened by my soulful cries.


Does my haughtiness offend you?

Don’t you take it awful hard

‘Cause I laugh like I got gold mines

Diggin’ in my own back yard.


You may shoot me with your words,

You may cut me with your eyes,

You may kill me with your hatefulness,

But still, like air, I’ll rise.


Out of the huts of history’s shame

I rise

Up from a past that’s rooted in pain

I rise


I’m a black ocean, leaping and wide,

Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.

Leaving behind nights of terror and fear

I rise

Into a daybreak that’s wondrously clear

I rise


Bringing the gifts my ancestors gave,

I am the dream and the hope of the slave.

I rise

I rise

I rise.


(For All The Unsung Heroes)

respice ; adspice ; prospice .


[-] 0 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 8 years ago

Didn't Jim Crow laws come after slavery?


[-] -1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 8 years ago

And yet you live in a state that is 95.5% white.


[-] 1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 8 years ago

Just interesting that your gramps fought for black people and you don't want them living nearby. Do you get nervous on the rare occasions you see one out in the real world?


[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 8 years ago

If you want to govern the people, you must place yourself below them. If you want to lead the people, you must learn how to follow them.


Not-knowing is true knowledge. Presuming to know is a disease. First realize that you are sick; then you can move toward health.

The Master is her own physician. She has healed herself of all knowing. Thus she is truly whole.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 8 years ago

Chinese Libertarianism.....LMFAO. Points for originality.... still not a viable option 6,000 years later.

"I do nothing, and people become good by themselves." - never saw a real world example of this.

[-] 1 points by jaktober (286) from Sonoma, CA 8 years ago

If you look at the concept as being purely literal then I think you may be right. Doing nothing does not stop a criminal. However, that is not exactly what this passage means. It does push for less regulation of the lives of others, and that if the "King" "knew the Tao" then there would be peace (the Tao talks a lot of helping others as well, feeding them, and such), but there is also the cognitive "do nothing" in which you cease judgments and the thinking of "this is what they should do."

When trying to figure out what others can do better you begin the process of finding faults with others. You begin to see them as "less than good." Once you begin to "do nothing" to try to right their lives, they will begin to "become good" as (or by) themselves.

On their own they are good if you cease judgments.

Obviously, absolutism will give you reason to say, "but there are bad people in the world, since your statement isn't absolutely right it must be absolutely wrong." I hope such an approach is easily seen as being mindless.

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (23369) 8 years ago

Yup. Sounds like a way to sneak in libertarianism while we're not thinking. LOL.

[-] 3 points by jaktober (286) from Sonoma, CA 8 years ago

6,000 year plot to take down Occupy with libertarian philosophy...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23369) 8 years ago

LOL! Be careful how you interpret ancient philosophies.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Too bad it worked........:(

It's become truly infected with it.

There's even gun nutters here now.

[-] 1 points by jaktober (286) from Sonoma, CA 8 years ago

I know, they walk around wearing Che shirts...crazy gun rights folk.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

I see more of them wearing silly hats with tea bags hanging off of them.

[-] 1 points by jaktober (286) from Sonoma, CA 8 years ago

Sorry, I believe you missed my sarcasm.

I don't think gun rights are invalid. Che relied very highly on those he taught to shoot guns to bring down the oppressive government of Cuba.

Watch this; gun laws wouldn't stop the criminals in this video from having a gun, but would have stopped the 71 year old that stopped them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm9o3vhKoF8&feature=related

I tend not to get into extremes and division. I don't treat people as Republicans, Christians, Occupy, Liberal, TEA Party, etc. but as individuals. I do my best not to group people together and judge them based on the actions of a few or some superficial reasoning.

I'd welcome diversity on your forum (and at your protests), as long as it is not pointless and disruptive.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

I like diversity too, but I prefer it to make sense, and I've yet to find a teabagge(R) that was capable of that.

PS./ I find little use for a 100 round AR 15, in a consumer setting.

[-] 0 points by jaktober (286) from Sonoma, CA 8 years ago

Did my reasoning make sense?

Depends on the consumer. If the consumer thinks they may have to defend themselves against enemies foreign or domestic, and we know the power of various countries' military (and that of our own), then that consumer would want the post powerful weapon they can get that allows them to shoot as long as possible without reloading.

I don't think we have to fear invasion, but I think part of that is because that consumer can get some high powered weapons. Our country is far to big with way to many guns to take over militarily.

I definitely think certain guns should require some testing. Perhaps taking a gun course at the Sheriff's department. Maybe some psychological exams. I don't think hand-guns or rifles should require the psych test (need to have some freedom from government, they'd be able to ban Occupy people from owning guns), but ARs for sure. Anything that can harm a lot of people very quickly should be regulated.

However, we also need to deal with a certain "wild" area between Security and Liberty. We don't require psych tests for driver's licenses. Any nut can get in a car and kill a few people quite easily.

We should make public transit better and be a little more strict with which people we let drive a ton of steel at 60mph on the public roads. *Tangent

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

No, as it's far too late for what you are calling for to be effective.

Too late by a factor of decades.

There is NO consumer use for an AR 15 with a 100 round clip.

(R)epelican'ts dismembered mental health care a long, long time ago, a State at a time.

There are no real crazies anymore. Just criminals, and a lot of those use guns for their crimes.

Here's another take on the gun issue.


[-] 1 points by jaktober (286) from Sonoma, CA 8 years ago

I read the article:

*"Without a gun you will avoid walking on a sidewalk where some thuggish looking young people are hanging out. With a gun you're going to go barging down that street because you have a right to walk anywhere you want -- anyone challenges that right and out comes your gun. I'll blow your brains out. Case closed."

Do you concur that it is not that black-and-white? I agree that guns give people a sense of power, as does being a man against a woman. But it is not that black-and-white. I was in Iowa and went next door to help move a couch for someone I was staying with and the dude had a hand-gun holstered. No big deal.

*"Finally, people carry guns in public for very few legitimate reasons. To protect themselves? From what and whom? A guy you are going to have an argument with over a parking space? The kid wearing saggy pants because you THINK he's a hoodlum? Or that you will lose an argument and the only way to win is by whipping out you shiny new Colt 45? Not even the Neanderthals behaved so primitive and stupid. Packing heat in public or anyplace else for that matter is a dangerous thing because it allows an individual -- just as the whack job in Aurora -- to kill at any given time, intentionally or not."

Thousands of people carry guns everyday that don't brandish a fire arm over traffic disagreements. And how can he say "from whom" when earlier he talks about how violent our society is?

This article uses the fact that Americans are more prone to violence than any other country in the world yet then says we have no reason to be afraid of each other and want to protect ourselves.

I agree that 100 round AR 15s should not be in the hands of the general public. However, these weapons are in the hands of private military forces within the United States, they are in the hands of our soldiers overseas, and we even sell them to other countries to do the same with them in their societies...

Putting all the blame on individual gun owners does not address the problem of guns; the manufacturing of them.

And ending personal gun ownership will not end manufacturing if the military industrial complex is still using them regularly. And if they are manufactured they will eventually find their way onto the black market and into the hands of the criminals the article above so clearly warns us about.

The vicious circle is that this environment is what normally law abiding citizens want guns to protect themselves from; to "even" the playing field.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 8 years ago

Like I hinted, bring back mental health care.

Even the "health care(sic)" industry want's little to do with it, and it's only going to get worse thanks to the (R)eplican'ts dismantling of the public system.

Let's also not forget private prison, that needs more people in prison all the time to make their profit forecasts.

Toss in the rabid BS of the NRA and the picture gets even worse.

Like I said as well, the time to use those things as you have intimated is long past.

What you are asking for is even more chaos.

[-] 1 points by jaktober (286) from Sonoma, CA 8 years ago

I hope you're right.

Yes, the Drug War and Prison Industrial Complex need to go. Health-care (including mental) is a good thing.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Gothenburg, NE 8 years ago

The Wisdom of the Tao is good, but for Peace you also need Truth. Note the calendar in which your history is organized and centered around. The Hebrews were expecting a transition when man completed his journey. Do no repeat the omission of the 60's.

[-] 1 points by thetao (15) 8 years ago

“To give your sheep or cow a large, spacious meadow is the way to control him.”


[-] 1 points by jaktober (286) from Sonoma, CA 8 years ago

Love it! And I love coffee!


[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 8 years ago

Great if we were sheep and cows.

[-] 2 points by thetao (15) 8 years ago

it's a metaphor about how to engage in human relationships. if you are a parent, give your child the most options, and they will likely do what you would have them do in the first place. in a romantic relationship, let the man or woman leave and they'll probably come back to you.

it's paradoxical, like a lot of buddhist ideas.

[-] 0 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 8 years ago

It's a metaphor on how to manipulate.

[-] 0 points by NS88 (-23) 8 years ago

Why do you use the Dao to justify this modern-day garbage?