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Forum Post: The Root Problem Destroying America - Elections

Posted 11 years ago on April 14, 2013, 10:02 a.m. EST by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA
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[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 11 years ago

Bill HR 29 Constitutional Amendment XXVIII Introduced in Congress
by Rep. Rick Nolan (D-MN) & Rep. Mark Pocan (D-WI)

Section 1.
Artificial Entities Such as Corporations Do Not Have Constitutional Rights
The rights protected by the Constitution of the United States are the rights of natural persons only. Artificial entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state shall have no rights under this Constitution and are subject to regulation by the People, through Federal, State, or local law. The privileges of artificial entities shall be determined by the People, through Federal, State, or local law, and shall not be construed to be inherent or inalienable.

Section 2.
Money is Not Free Speech
Federal, State, and local government shall regulate, limit, or prohibit contributions and expenditures, including a candidate's own contributions and expenditures, to ensure that all citizens, regardless of their economic status, have access to the political process, and that no person gains, as a result of their money, substantially more access or ability to influence in any way the election of any candidate for public office or any ballot measure. Federal, State, and local government shall require that any permissible contributions and expenditures be publicly disclosed. The judiciary shall not construe the spending of money to influence elections to be speech under the First Amendment.

Consider your key project – jobs, military, elections, fracking, education, tax reform –
Now imagine that the 1% opposition cannot spend to get their way against you

* .

This responds to hundreds of local & state resolutions and Move To Amend for a “We the People” Amendment -
The movement for constitutional reforms that would end “corporate rule”.

The Amendment clearly and unequivocally states that: Rights recognized under the Constitution belong to human beings only, and not to government-created artificial legal entities – including corporations, unions, and parties. and that Political campaign spending is not a form of speech protected under the First Amendment. Government belongs to the people & must not be for sale to the corporations and the wealthy and the 1% special interests. The Move To Amend coalition of nearly 260,000 people and hundreds of organizations has helped to pass nearly 500 resolutions in municipalities and local governments across the country calling on the state and federal governments to adopt this amendment. This bill is specifically different from the other proposals that have come forward in response to Citizens United because it also specifically addresses corporate personhhod. In every single community where Americans have had the opportunity to call for a Constitutional amendment to outlaw corporate personhood, they have voted to end “CP”. The Citizens United decision is not the cause, it is a symptom. We must remove big money and special interests from the legal and political process entirely with this amendment.

If you want to understand

Citizens United &
Corporate Personhood &
the Amendment Process

Please visit our OWS CU / CP / Amendment site:

70+ videos & 40+ documents on this issue from Sanders, Chomsky, Maher, Hedges, Lessig, Warren, Grayson, Hartmann, Hightower, etc

►►Support this bill HR29◄◄
Write & email your congresspeople house:

call Rep Rick Nolan to show support 202 225 6211


[-] -1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 11 years ago

I'd be for a constitutional amendment as well.


[-] 0 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 11 years ago

I am for a constitutional amendment right now...no "ifs" or "buts"


[-] 1 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 11 years ago

No it's not. He's an ultra right-winger.


[-] 1 points by Nader (74) 11 years ago

The point thing is so juvenile.

One would hope people would be judged, negatively or positively, by the content of their posts and not some number next to their name.


[-] 0 points by Nader (74) 11 years ago

Oh I realize that. Why is it even there though? It just detracts from dialogue.

[-] -1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 11 years ago

So people like VQ can create 100 different screen names and upvote their own comments all day long.

[-] 3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

That's it. For VQ, the seemingly most important thing in his life is "Manufacturing Consent" and he is unscrupulous in how he does it

And that was also evidenced by his recent attack on here in unjustly trying to label a poster a "racist"


[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

Most important thing for me is disseminating honest current info/action items regarding issues that Occupy has taken a stand on.

For you the most important thing seems to be maligning me and pushing an anti occupy austerity economic plan based on greed.

And I have been honest.. Absolutely.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

And you have been malicious in your attempts at denigrating good people on here who know far more what Occupy is about than you

And once again, this was made evident by your attempt to unjustifiably call Builder "a racist piece of shit"

And now your mischaracterization of me is proof positive of how deceptive your are


[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

But you are ONLY attacking me!!! You ain't on this forum for anything useful. Or you would be posting useful, important comments.

Instead you are dishonestly personally attacking me and you are using lies to incite others to do so as well.

Because that iswhat is important to you. And that is why you come here.

You've warned me repeatedly that if I mentioned the party that must remain unmentioned you would fight with me. You have set yourself up as the resident police officer, judge & jury.

I just don't recognize you as such.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Let me tell you a personal story in case you missed it VQ

While having a dynamic young black girl living with us from Newark, NJ for the school year in our home in Vermont, one of my daughters was called a 'nigger lover'

She got up in front of the whole school, and gave a speech on racism, and it ended with her looking the boy straight in the eyes, and her saying, "I am not a 'nigger lover,' I am a people lover." I know because I was there.

That young white boy never apologized to her, but you still have the chance with Builder. Don't make his mistake.


[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

I'm not interested in your unprovable stories. You have lied repeatedly about me, and now about you.

"another pseudonym"? Bullshit! Why did you change? banned early on for attacking people maybe? Why didn't you include it? cause your lyin? I included linkks! backup ! evidence!

Tell me the ID I'll find it for you.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Me personally attacking you(?) after you call one of the good people here a "racist piece of shit" Come on now VQ that's laughable

This could have all been resolved if you had taken me up on my calm suggestion that you owed Builder an apology, but you chose not to

And i will be happy and I look forward again to making thoughtful comments on here


[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

I told you, he owes ME an apology for his continued, unfounded, childish personal attack for the last 2 weeks. And now you do to.

You ain't a fair referee because you've ignored his crusade, and now you've joined in.

You're just supporting your friend.

Put aside your hatred for my politics and focus on comments related to issues that occupy has taken a stand on.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

I never lived in NYC, except perhaps the 30 years I lived and worked on a 'boat' (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off mostly)...often waking up to seeing lady Liberty and the NY skyline, or in some little creek or bay in the city in all 5 boroughs, and a whole lot of places between Montreal, Chicago and all the way down to Guantanamo Bay. I've also bicycled in all the boros except the Bronx on my time off watch

"White flight" and 'gentrication' both have their downsides though. NY is a resilient city, i know

Where you are from is no assurance of your mettle, or any other attribute, is it?


i never lived in a subdivion in suburbia, but have lived in the country in NY, VT and In the Jersey shore, and I traveled a lot in the 70s-90s as well

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Tell me all your pseudonyms, make your apologees, and then I'll get back to you with my original moniker on here which i had for approximately 3 weeks before changing to Odin

NY, your city, maybe by happenstance, but that's all! My famly goes back there to the early 1800s, and i know NY well enough myself to know that you are an abberation to both the city, and especially to the Occupy people there

Let me guess, your family goes back in NY to the early 1700s, right? lol


[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

My grandma grew up on tipperary hill in Cuse.

Green over red When the city first installed traffic signal lights in 1925, they placed one at a major intersection in the main business district on Tipperary Hill, at the corner of Tompkins Street and Milton Avenue.[6] Local Irish youths, incensed that the "British" red appeared above the "Irish" green, threw stones at the signal and broke the red light. John "Huckle" Ryan, then alderman of the Tipperary Hill section, requested that the traffic signal be hung with the green above the red in deference to the Irish residents. This was done, but soon the State of New York stepped in, and city officials reversed the colors.[1] The red lights were again broken regularly.[1] Members of a group called Tipperary Hill Protective Association addressed the town rulers.[7] On March 17, 1928, Commissioner Bradley met with Tipp Hill residents, who told him that the light would continue to be vandalized.[7] The city leaders relented, and green was again above the red light, [7] where it remains.[1]

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

No.. lol.. no low self esteem, perhaps the opposite tho...It's important to like yourself, but it is even more important to be honest with yourself, so i try to do the latter introspectively so the former is possible

I am a keen observer of people and listen more than I speak, believe it or not, so i just try to pass on these, yes generalizations, but I feel they are accurate ones. That's all.


[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Victor is fifty years old, and six feet tall.

His alter egos are anyone's guess.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

1890's, but we have been here continuously. "happenstance"? Whaaaat? I earned my bona fides by living through the 70's & 80's, while you were safe in your suburban, subdivision.

Many of my family fled in the 50's,60's & 70's to the suburbs, when desegregation, & real estate/banksters bred fear, and created "white flight".

NYC (and all cities) took a massive blow when all those middle class people ran away.

But we survived, (some cities never truly recovered (detriot).

So you say you left when?

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

In most parts of the world VQ including the great city of New York that you live in,

You would be considered a 'low-life'

And i am elated that I do not know anyone like you personally


[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

So now you speak for "most of the world".

You think very highly of yourself. But you must know you sound like an idiot when you pretend to speak for the world, or a city, or even other people.

Why can't you just speak for yourself. Do you feel your opinion is not adequate. A little self conscious, low self esteem maybe?

Buck up buddy. Your opinion matters, but you don't speak for anyone but yourself.


[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

I think your constant attacks, misuse of the forum, degrading of OWS, and obvious lies make YOU the lowlife, certainly here in NYC where you most certainly ain't gonna tell ME how it is right?

What fuckin nerve. goddamn jersey weekend warrior, suburban, soft lying piece of shit gonna tell me what MY city thinks. You wouldn't know the1st thing about what NYC thinks.


"another pseudonym"? Bullshit! Why did you change? banned early on for attacking people maybe? Why didn't you include it? cause your lyin? I included linkks! backup ! evidence!

Tell me the ID I'll find it for you.

What the fuck are you waiting for? Lets have it.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

More 'profanity', often used by people with "Napolean Complexes" who are desparate

Deleting a comment which i assume you did is not the same as apologizing to someone for calling them a "racist piece of shit," is it?


[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

I ain't deleted nothin, because I ain't done nothin wrong.

I am 6 ft tall, but stop fishing for my personal info. "napolean complex" my ass!

Stick to the issues that occupy has taken a stand on.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Me saying, YOU VQkag calling someone a"racist piece of shit" isn't a lie, is it? Please tell me...how so? lol

There are many people here that want you to come clean with all the deceptions & malicious behavior that you have propagated on here, including me at this point

I am a strong believer in redemption and forgiveness, even for people that have done far more wrong in their life than you have by unjustly calling someone here a "RACIST PIECE OF SHIT," and for having multiple pseudonyms, and all the other too numerous to mention deceptive practices you have used on here ...

I think i can speak for most people in saying we are ready to forgive you, but In order for us to forgive you though, you have to be sorry

So tell you what VQ, i will start the ball rolling in saying that you do not have to apologize to me for your most recent "hood" metaphor with its malicious "racist" connotations. I don't need it, but you must apologize to Builder for calling him a "racist piece of shit"....you must also own up in general terms to all the deceptive practices you have deployed on here.......and you must own up to having multipe pseudonyms, 6 of 'em is enough. Here I'll help you get started, OK?.... RtheP, I4, WS,...,...,...,...come on, you can do it

Just put all this on a thread, that's all, then we can move on.


[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

Fuck you. I ain't done nothing wrong. Show me where I called your piece of shit friend a racist, then prove he ain't.

I remember you attacking any progressive leaning pro occupy people here from when you arrived here in Nov 2011.You rarely focus on discussing solutions, or suggesting action. You even attacked mefor using 'progressive'.

You brag about your occupy action, and you use that to dictate who is worthy.

You have misunderstood, & misused this forum by hunting those you deem unworthy.

Same old fascist story. You are better cause you've been on the ground, so you get to attack the real progressives who only want to discuss solutions that occupy backs.

Who are you speaking for? Builder? John, Otp?

Please I have no respect forthem. They don't strike meas real occupiers at all.

And neither do you. cause a real progressive doesn't hunt, judge, and attempt to chase off a forum.

So you don't get an apology, I ain't done nothin wrong! You don't get a list of ids. I use only this one! You just get more obnoxious and pathetic.

Take it from a real Occupier who has been here longer than your sorry ass.

[-] -1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 11 years ago

Couldn't agree more. I don't mind disagreeing with people...it's when dishonesty comes into play that really pisses me off.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

He is the worst on here by far


[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

At least I am focusing on issues while you are focused on dishonestly personally attacking me.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Replying here. i wish that was all you did


[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

A detestable person who calls another poster a "racist piece of shit" would have no idea what integrity is, would he?


[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

I call them as I see them.

I make no apologize, no regrets, I fight for the 99%. steadfast and true. Your attacks and those you coordinate against me are meaningless.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Now VQkag2, you are using profanity to cover up the fact that you should apologize to somone that you unjustifiably called a "RACIST PIECE OF SHIT"

There's plenty of time to get back to the issues, but it is SPRING, hence it is a good time to clean house, and get a fresh start with the real business of Occupy

So how 'bout it? An apology thread. Imagine how great you will feel afterward.

As much as neither of us would want to be a victim of a racist, it is not cool being unjustifiably called a "racist piece of shit either" is it?

Builder deserves an apology VQKAG2!!


[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

It isn't cool to dishonestly personally attack people for weeks. In your case you been attacking me on & off for a year.

And you've been attacking people since you got here. I remember I was here BEFORE you.

So those apologize are long overdue.

In any event you can stick to the issues and put you're hatred of my politics aside.

I ain't interested or impressed.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Yes a good metaphor for you..."If the hood fits." You do know that the slang for "hood" in Australia is 'bonnet' right?

And you do remember the 'bloke' that you maliciously maligned as being a "racist piece of shit" also being from 'down under', right?

And i also get your DIRTY little reference to "hood" which is equivolent to your unscrupulous maligning of Builder

The trouble for you is that I am second generation in my family who has stood up for the rights of minorities, and not just in words, but in deeds too

Good try tho in trying to label me as a "racist piece of shit" insidiously


[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

Why the fuck should I care what it means in Australia, And why should I give 2 shits about where my attacker is from?

You goddamn idiot.

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

Shut the fuck up you moron!! What a goddamn little fuckin child. I'm busy with real forum posting.

I have no time or patience for you immature lies.

I ain't done nothin wrong, I use one ID. All downvotes ain't from Victor you paranoid schizo wack job. You friend attacks many people that is why his score is low.

Forget the motherfuckin points and get back to the business of pushing the issues occupy supports.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

You're focusing on issues while calling people that disagree with your twisted partisan ideas a "racist piece of shit" or some other kind of deceptive crap


[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

If the hood fits.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

He wouldn't be that childish?

Would he? ><

[-] -1 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 11 years ago

I've lost count of his screen names to be honest.....you uncovered gsw this morning which i didn't know of before.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Naaah, I was just joshing about gsw.

What this whole episode does, is plant seeds of doubt in the minds of all of us here.

VQ is more than likely a subversive plant.

And here I was, thinking he's just someone's dumbarse cousin.

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

Stop lying. I use one ID. Stick with your worthwhile topic instead personally attacking me with lies.

The points are meaningless,I submit if your points are low it ain't all my fault. Why don't you take responsibility for your own situation?

maybe your constant pushing of libertarian, Austrian austerity economics has something to do with it. Or maybe your ignorant outrageous suggestion that the best economy is one based on greed.

To blame for your score on me is ridiculous, immature, and ignorant.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 11 years ago

people who curse have nothing to say.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 11 years ago

Do you curse?

[-] 0 points by john32 (-272) from Pittsburgh, PA 11 years ago

I pissed off VQ one too many times.

[-] -1 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 11 years ago

good !

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

Me too.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Replying here. Wow that's some NYC history. What borough is Cuse in.

Let's see, my great grandpa moved from Princeton NJ to NYC sometime before the Civil War

And my great, great uncle while working securtiy at the NY or maybe the World Expo (1858 I think) was recruited into the Pinkertons which was nationalized into the Secret Service. While there he uncovered a plot where Lincoln was to be asassinated on his inaugural train trip to Washington. Despite Pinkerton not being a good guy, he did give him the credit for revealing the plot, and in Harpers Mag..there is a big write up about him on the 50th anniv 1912 i think. That uncle went on to be a spy for the north and was hung in Richmond when a peer ratted him out

My grandpa was born in Harlem in the week of the infamous Blizzard of 1888. That blizzard was the main impetus in putting in the subway system. And while he was working down south, my mom was born in Chattanooga TN, but they came back to Queens when she was a toddler. She went on to get some sort of a business degree (1-2 yrs), and worked for IBM doing the punch cards, and at Perry Gyroscope in Brooklyn, where my mom and dad met. i have pictures of them in their early thirties in fancy NYC restaurants. They were both quite dapper, compared to me anyway. lol

Then I worked for thirty plus years on the boats out of NYC, and had ports in all the boroughs. I learned how to find my way around quite well on both public transportation and by car because we often had to crew change there. Many NYers tho..only know the boro...they live in, and amazingly parts of Staten island remind me of upstate NY...really

This is probably more than you wanted to know lol, but one of my daughters graduated magna cum laude from Fordham Lincoln Center. Anyway after the graduation ceremony we decided to all drive over to where she was living in Queens.....the problem..i had a GMC pick-up with only room for three in the front so we put 3 people, a friend and 2 of my daughters in the back while i drove. An NYPD car pulled up behind us, and i thought i was screwed, but no lights came on and i could see in my mirror one of the cops laughing looking at the girls in the back all dressed to the tee. Having Vermont plates helped i suspect too

But by far and away, my best connection with NYC is; It is where my one daughters had her life saved at one of the best hospitals in the world, Memorial Sloan Kettering. And although I know that McDonalds is a corporation that is a big part of the problem, i could never protest against them because being able to stay at the fairly new Ronald McDonald House, while my daughter had two operations at MSK, well i just never could. While there, we were the recipients of kindness from so many good hearted NYers every day...home-made cookies and tea served in beautiful cups and saucers from little old upper East side ladies...free dinner & transport to the famous Katz deli...bagels from somewhere arrived every day...free drinks from nearby bars...you name it. That is the NY I know, and I see that every time I'm with Occupy.

Sorry, i got carried away there. lol


[-] 2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

Cuse=Syracuse. Im one of those weird upstaters :)

I use that example of Tipp hill all the time, showing that if the people dont like something, and they arent worried about shit, then they get change.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

Yeah Cuse threw me off, as did the Tip...Hill. I'll read it again. It's amazing that after all these years the green is at the top. I think I told you, but I used to traverse the Erie Canal in western NY state

My only niece's husband graduated from Syracues Uni... and he was the mascot for the football team

He went onto law school and in now a partner in a powerful DC law firm and is a republican lobbyist to boot

I did notice that I did not get my customary invitation for Easter this year at their home in Williamsburg, even tho..I usually didn't go

I suspect my involvement with Occupy might have had something to do wih that. Oh well...


[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 11 years ago

The guy who was the orange acting like a maniac is now passing judgement on others for their personal behavior.

Sounds like a typical Republican to me :)

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 11 years ago

The Orangemen of Cuse....Unfortunately he, being a repub lobbyist is the epitome of what is wrong with our country

We have had some heated political arguments long before my involvement with Occupy much to the chagrin of other family members

For the sake of family though, we usually stop before going too far, sometime suddenly out of the blue me saying, 'you are a great dad', which he is

Now tho... wtih as much as I have learned in the past 19 mos., I'm not sure if i would have that discipline

I did have the chance to plant some more liberal 'seeds' in his very intelligent 10 yr old son who wants to be President, when he visited Alaska while I was there. When we went to Denali, i made him promise that he would increase funding to the National Park system when he becomes President....lol....sneaky, eh? I'll work on the kid more when i see him next....lol


[-] 1 points by freewriterguy2 (3) 11 years ago

great article, and one or two ammendments I would add:

  1. A. Corporations that are formed for the purpose of donating to political parties and then are quickly dissolved so as to hide their identity shall be investigated and subject to criminal charges.

  2. A. In the event that email becomes a means of involving people in the election process and anyone sends a virus or otherwise tries to interfere with the election process thru email or computer, it shall be looked upon as a terrorist attack and dealt with harsh punishment.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 11 years ago

capitalism is what is destroying us it is eating itself. we are so fucked.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

As a concept, it's a dead-end street.

Wealth and power are a narcissist's dream.

Therein lies the problem. We are ruled by narcissists.

By nature, they only concern themselves with themselves.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 11 years ago