Forum Post: The richest 1% DO NOT pay 37% of the taxes. The devil is in the details. Don't believe this outrageous crap about the rich paying 37% of the taxes in America and the poor paying none. It's a trick. A spin on statistics to make it seem as if the rich are
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 17, 2012, 9:50 a.m. EST by ModestCapitalist
(2342)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The devil is in the details.
Don't believe this outrageous crap about the rich paying 37% of the taxes in America and the poor paying none. It's a trick. A spin on statistics to make it seem as if the rich are overtaxed. They aren't. But they damn well should be. We're in this mess because of them.
Be careful when you hear or read anything regarding the PERCENTAGE of OVERALL FEDERAL INCOME taxes paid by any particular group. It's a terribly misleading statistic. The rich pay a larger PERCENTAGE of OVERALL FEDERAL INCOME taxes now than 10 years ago because they have a larger PERCENTAGE of OVERALL INCOME in America now than 10 years ago. That statistic regarding 37% of Federal Income Taxes is one of the most misleading in the history of propaganda.
When you account for all FEDERAL, STATE, and LOCAL taxes and fees, the middle class actually pay about the same rate (as a percentage of income) as the rich. The difference is within 5 percent. It shouldn't be that way. The rich should pay a MUCH higher rate simply because they are horribly over-paid. We aren't. They own 43% of all financial wealth in America. We share the rest. But it gets even more disgusting. The devil is in the details.
Corporate profits have been partially subsidized with federal, state, and local revenue. This benefit has been hoarded at the top. Business managers make up the largest group of one percent club pigs (followed by attorneys, doctors, and celebrities). Plus 40% of the market is owned by the top 1%. Their record territory dividends have been partially subsidized by federal, state, and local revenue. The benefits have not been shared proportionally with the little guy. The lopsided division of growth across quintiles proves it.
The income for richest one percent has grown more than 10 times faster than the middle percentile over the last 30 years. This is true EVEN AFTER taxes. When you account for inflation and the actual cost of living (tied to record high profits in energy, finance, and healthcare), the middle class have actually lost relative buying power while the top 1% have drastically increased their income and bottom line wealth.
In 1976 (when their tax rates were much higher), the top one percent reaped 9 percent of all private income and held less than 20 percent of all private wealth in America. Now, they reap 21 percent of all private income and hold 40 percent of all private wealth. Meanwhile, the lower majority (those who are still employed) are working more hours and have less to show for it.
Just to make it crystal clear: The rich do not pay 37% of all taxes. Not even close. They pay roughly 37% of all FEDERAL INCOME TAXES which account for less than 1/2 of total government revenue. The rest is drawn from a number of sources and across income levels. The rich harp on this 'Federal Income Tax' statistic because it leads people to believe that they pay 37% of ALL taxes. They don't. Not even close. Their share as a group represents about their share of income. The difference is within 5 percent. In fact, the 2nd percentile actually pays a slightly higher rate on average than the top percentile.
The richest 500 Americans hold more personal wealth than the lower 150 million Americans combined. These richest 500 Americans pay an effective rate of under 15%.
If the rich want to pay a lower share of the taxes in America, then they should get themselves a lower share of the income in America. In other words, don't be so rich to begin with. After all, this obscene concentration of wealth actually CAUSES economic instability. It CAUSES poverty. It will CAUSE the next Great Depression.
No more excuses.
RAISE THOSE GOD DAMN TAXES ON THE RICH!
In the meantime, Check out this report from Citizens For Tax Justice:
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2009.pdf
A quote from the report:
"The total federal, state and local effective tax rate for the richest one percent of Americans (30.9 percent) is only slightly higher than the average effective tax rate for the remaining 99 percent of Americans (29.4 percent). From the middle-income ranges upward, total effective tax rates are virtually flat across income groups." "
"If you still have even the slightest doubt, watch this video of independent economist and former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich debunking 7 lies about the economy. Pay special attention to that 7th lie.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=mM5Ep9fS7Z0
I type the truth. When you account for all Federal, State, and local taxes, the middle class pay about the same effective rate as the richest one percent."
Romney pays less than 14 percent ..."Romney paid about $3 million to the IRS, for an effective tax rate of 13.9 percent"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romney-releases-tax-returns/2012/01/23/gIQAj5bUMQ_story.html
Your right. When they claim 37 percent of total national taxes, it's cause they're so freaken rich that's what they pay at a 14 percent tax rate.
They have so many sheltters loopholes, deductutions for dressage horse, things the ordinary citizen, and their deductions for millions dollar houses which they write off the interest which they probably loan to themselves in the first place.
criminal 1% plutocrats. Should all be jailed. We need a 90% tax rate on all income (cap gains, carried interest, passive, bonus, salary) over a million dollars.
And we should eliminate all loopholes over a million dollar income. Enough with the welfare for the rich.
It's the only way.
I second that: Income over $400,000 anual, 90 percent is a
fair rate of tax; and 50 percent tax from $300,000 to $400,000.
Problem is, most would change their citizenship, like the Facebook founder http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/11/a-facebook-founder-renounces-his-u-s-citizenship/
Maybe if enough of them leave, we can get "citizens united", what an oxymoron, overturned.
Yeah I remember him, I suppose it will happen. I think we should penalize them. It ain't unheard of. You can't make crazy money here and just take it out. That ain't right. Maybe we should ban them from returning. That might give them pause. Forbid investing with American companies. I don't know and I'm sure my suggestions would never get passed but I think it would be the right thing.
Getem with an exit tax. Then smile wave and bye bye - ya'll be sure not to come back ya here?
The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans (actually more like 98%), saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively.
The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated 44 percent of all United States wealth. The upper, middle, and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the lower majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.
Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a public works program, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, more currency, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, some US wealth was gradually transferred back down to the majority. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. By 1976, the richest 1 percent held less than 20 percent of America's private wealth. The lower majority held the rest. It was the best year ever for the American middle and lower classes. And rightfully so. This was the recovery. A partial redistribution of wealth.
Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own 40 percent of all US wealth. The upper, middle, and lower classes are sharing the rest. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
Note: A knowledgable and trustworthy contributor has gone on record with a claim that effective tax rates for the rich were considerably lower than book rates during the years of redistribution that I have made reference to. His point was that the rich were able to avoid those very high marginal rates of 70-90% under the condition that they invested specifically in American jobs. His claim is that their effective tax rates probably never exceeded 39%. My belief is that if true, those rates were still considerably higher than the previous lows of '29' and the policies still would have contributed to a partial redistribution by forcing the rich to either share profits and potential income through job creation or share income through very high marginal tax rates. This knowledgable contributor and I agree that there was in effect, a redistribution but disagree on the use of the word.
One thing is clear from recent events. The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. Book rates for the rich remain at all time lows. Their corporate golden geese are subsidized. The benefits of corporate welfare are paid almost exclusively to the rich. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible.
For the good of society, stop giving so much of your money to rich people. Stop concentrating the wealth. This may be our last chance to prevent the worst economic depression in world history. No redistribution. No recovery.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
I have stated many times that FDR's policies (designed to partially reverse the record high concentration of wealth) were successful every year but one. I have stated that his policies resulted in economic growth and job creation every year but one. Also that he did in fact, officially end the Great Depression.
The following is an entry from 'looselyhuman' who has gone on record with a similar claim. One source to verify our claims is included. Out of respect for 'looselyhuman', I will post not only the source, but also his entire entry unedited:
Its a good one. Looselyhuman said:
"Revisionist history. Check this out re: FDR's taxes that long outlived him (until 1980-82): http://www.brianrogel.com/the-100-percent-solution-for-the-99-percent
Unemployment declined every year from 1933-1940 except 1938 when FDR listened to the GOP and cut back on the New Deal. GDP grew every year except 1938 as well. The rest of the world was in free fall. There was no trade or commerce and without government spending it would have been total collapse. Then, yes, things took off even more during the Keynesian economic stimulus known as WWII.
Unemployment (% labor force)
1933 24.9
1934 21.7
1935 20.1
1936 16.9
1937 14.3
1938 19
1939 17.2
1940 14.6
Percent change GDP
1933 -4%
1934 15%
1935 10%
1936 13%
1937 9%
1938 -7%
1939 7%
1940 9%
How would you feel about 15% economic growth today?"
It would be nice - but long term isn't sustainable. I think it's David Suzuki out of Canada who makes the argument that we live in a finite world, a closed system, and that an expanding economy must at some point hit a ceiling.
I agree. The important thing is that we have a more fair, reasonable, and just economy.
But thats probably just a pipe dream.
I don't think so - not if humanity survives global warming and the various attempts at geo-engineering that are almost certainly underway.
It is perhaps unlikely that the next three generations will ever see it - but I think that if humanity survives then an equitable economic system is inevitable.
Global warming!!!!! Alaska is going through their coldest Winter in 40 years bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Brian Williams reported on Thursday, January 5, 2012, that 98% of the nation is above freezing; and 115 cities around the country set all time record high temps for this day.
Jim Cantore elaborated on those numbers to state that of those 115 record high temps, four of them were 41 degrees above average and all time highs not just for day, but the entire month of January.
And the following day he reported that over 200 cities in the U.S. set all time record high temps, and over 60 more tied record high temps.
take that, you ignorant little imbicile
A ZenDog smackdown! Don't mess with the climate ninja.
Is it just me? Or have the global warming deniers suddenly abandoned their widespread and concerted effort to refute and deny that which is most obvious - right outside the window . . . .
No. He refuted it. Remember, "blah blah blah". Of course, it lacked intellectual depth and he really didn't site any facts, but I'm sure someone out there might actually understand that reply. Maybe you have to be under ten. I'd like to see one of the Republican candidates use that as a reply during a debate.
I would not be the least bit surprised to find that at least one of them already has . . .
Sorry, was at work. As for the climate deniers, they're still out there. As long as big oil can give them a paycheck plenty of semi-humans will line up to collect, from internet trolls to fringe scientists. Sad but true. Still, my money's on ZenDog, our climate ninja.
I'm sure they are still out there somewhere - it just seems like the structure of the debate itself is changing - if this forum is any measure - which it may not be because the forum itself is changing.
But if it were an accurate reflection, I would say the naysayers are becoming fewer in number, and more hysterical.
Which would be both good and bad, and I think will serve to create its own feedback loop that further reduces their numbers.
Hey zendog what caused the medieval warm period? Was it all of those sword factory's? Climate change is real but man does not cause it. Now as to the current debate weather the globe is warming ill leave that alone as it is irrelevant. But we should fight for real environmental issues like COREXIT, fracking and Oil refinery's running off into the the great lakes..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2fldJnaNp0 http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/chi-pollute_15jul15,0,823234.story
it was a change in ocean currents, likely caused from an underwater land slide.
That is one theory, one with no proof what so ever.
What theory do you "believe"?
Perhaps the Kraken did it?
Maybe i am just crazy but things just happen sometimes... like the sun having more solar storms and effecting our weather patterns and the moon causing the tide.
We've been aware of the solar activity cycle for some time now.
Long enough to know that it has little or no effect on our weather.
For tidal effects see O'Riellys comments.
[Removed]
life on earth depends on the sun. the sun does not depend on the earth. all stars ( our sun included) are gigantic balls of super heated gas kept hot by atomic reactions in their centers. in our sun,the atomic reaction is hydrogen fusion. the temperature on the surface of the sun is about11,000 F. if were positioned closer to the sun , life would not exist,.....to hot, if we were further life would not exist,.too cold.
without the sun life on earth would not exist. what goes on with the sun affects our weather.
Without life on Earth, would there still be a sun?
Learn a bit about solar science.
We are new at it, at this level accuracy.
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/home.html
Be careful.......................It's a government site.
www.news.discovery.com/space/how-does-the-sun-affect-the-earth.html
A massive CME, will knock out close to all electronics based grids.
Satellite and Earth based.
I've known this for years.
I also know, at least in the electric utilities grids, there are things they could do to minimize damage.
They are not doing those things.
Corporations that own and operate these grids, have not seen fit to do what they can.
LAZY!
I figure if it happens, they'll piss and moan, and force the tax payer to pay for the repairs, and then raise our electric bills anyway.
It's what they do.
This however, has absolutely NOTHING to do with Earths weather patterns.
solar flares heat up the atmosphere of the earth and cause extreme weather. It's a fact, not an opinion.
Can you provide a link to that?
Oh my, a sane person nice to meet you. LOLz
That is not consistent with current scientific evidence. There are any number of links you can follow immediately before or after this post in your quest for enlightenment . . .
or not . . .
"That is not consistent with current scientific evidence...." are you a robot? Why don't you study more http://www.climategate.com/
We could start at the beginning -
What the world needs to watch
Global warming is mainly the result of CO2 levels rising in the Earth’s atmosphere. Both atmospheric CO2 and climate change are accelerating. Climate scientists say we have years, not decades, to stabilize CO2 and other greenhouse gases.
To help the world succeed, CO2Now.org makes it easy to see the most current CO2 level and what it means. So, use this site and keep an eye on CO2. Invite others to do the same. Then we can do more to send CO2 in the right direction.
things are not always what they seem. Did you include the rich people who own a bunch of real estate, who refuse to sell it to the poor? The rich arent paying for those properties, the poor who rent / lease them are.
blah blah blah
are you typing with your mouth full?
don't choke.
Information
Joined Jan. 17, 2012
I'm not surprised -
gearhead (0)
ZenDog (4699)
You're definitely the best Donkey Kong player around here. Two thumbs up.
I doubt it - it's just an indication of two things:
the numbers are slightly skewed
the best players left a month or so ago
We shouldn't be. He is just here to disrupt with idiocy.
yes he is . . .
but is he a troll? or just another zombified fool . . .
After his entrance? A troll.
The entire planet is in a dieback stage - a friend of mine was saying that way back in 1997. He is absolutely right.
We are in a period of extinction - one that will rival any of the five great extinction periods that have come before. The human race will most certainly experience a contraction in total global population that will make the Flu Pandemic of 1918 look like a non-event -
And this affects much more than just humanity
This will most certainly affect the children of today.
It will rearrange the political landscape, not just of the United States, but the whole world.
And trolls, along with their dutiful zombies, continue their denials . . . .
We will see, over the course of the next six elections . . .
.
Hottest years on record:
2005 ranks at number 1
2010 ranks at number 2
1998 ranks at number 3
2003 ranks at number 4
2002 ranks at number 5
while we are only a person in the world to you, you mean the world to us, Bless you! http://igg.me/p/171832?a=874546 Help Bring Hope To This Single Dad and Children! Give them a Chance!
Right, these figures only account for the federal income tax, not FICA taxes, not state taxes, not telephone & cell phone taxes, cable taxes, gasoline taxes, local sales taxes, etc. etc. etc.
er
gotta wonder if the rich deserve what they own on paper
[Removed]
Dear Satan, (you really are the devil when you leave out the details.)
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456
Here's a link to the historical "effective tax rates" in the US across all income levels.
Again, you critics keep reverting back to FEDERAL tax rates exclusively. The whole point was to expand the discussion beyond Federal statistics.
We're all way ahead of you. The calculations have already been done.
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2009.pdf
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2010.pdf
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/irstop400may2011.pdf
Come back when you have something to contribute regarding TOTAL effective tax rates including Federal, State, and Local taxes and fees.
I don't consider a left leaning think tank funded by labor unions (CTJ) to actually be a credible source for this.
You are free to cite the results of any comprehensive study conducted by any think tank funded by any source.
Mitt Romney estimated he pays an effective tax rate of close to 15%
[Removed]
Can't corporations claim more deductibles than the average person?
REVEALED: The 30 American Companies That Paid Less Than $0 In Income Tax Over The Last 3 Years
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/these-are-the-30-american-companies-that-paid-less-than-zero-income-tax-from-2008-2010-2011-11#ixzz1jk5EqUcy
My dad actually made money. Is he evil?
I don't know. Did he dodge the taxman too? What I do know is that the 70 companies that paid $0 in federal taxes over 3 years, while making their billions - are "Greedy Bastards". If you make your money in the US; you can contribute your fair share! NO WONDER WE'RE GOING BROKE ! These companies are sitting on record cash, due to this shit; while they're executives get big bonuses for laying-off more workers. As far as your dad ....... it's not for me to say ........ I'm sure you and he knows where the truth lies.
No he was able to claim massive amounts of deductibles because of the way his job was working. One year there was a terrible mess where he and my mother got $8,000 back from the government because of some gross discrepancy and they lost out on an entire year where that $8,000 could have been put in some kind of investment at 10% and made them $800. The tax system is far too complicated.
Making the tax code more simple would also lead to greater transparency.
Thats the idea skippy.
Flat business tax with no subsidies. Flat tax on imports. Flat or progressive tax on all forms of income (To be adjusted annually in response to levels of wealth concentration). Flat tax on sales. Flat tax or progressive tax on gross assets (Also to be adjusted annually). Penalties for anything not reported.
None of this in an attempt to cause a flat distribution of wealth. Far from it. Just to prevent the concentration from reaching obscene levels like that which caused the Great Depression and the current economic crisis.
it is a fact that 47% of americans do not pay a FEDERAL income tax. thats not even counting all the illegals that dont pay any either.
and when you say raise those god damn taxes where do you want that tax money to go? or do you just want rich people to have less money? have you even thought about why you want the top 1 percent to pay higher taxes?
Of course, thats a fact. But it doesn't change the overall equation. The rich and middle class both pay about the same total effective rate when all Federal, State, and Local taxes and fees are combined.
I don't want the money to accumulate at the top to begin with.
Thats why we're in this mess.
so you want products to be taxed on how much a certain person makes? that doesnt make any sense. they have more money that's why its not as high of a percentage when they buy a loaf of bread. i'm not too sure what you guys are arguing.
Did you know that a loaf of bread that is supposedly tax free, has hidden in it's price every tax paid by the companies involved in it's manufacture, distribution, and sales. Corporate taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, gasoline taxes, and many more are all ultimately passed down and paid by the customer. In addition to the flour and other ingredients, when that poor person buys a loaf of bread, he also pays for part of the CEO's salary, his company car, his bonus, his health insurance, his vacation, and his retirement. The rich man who buys that loaf of bread doesn't pay a penny more in taxes than the poor person does. Even the property tax a landlord pays is passed down to poor the person in the form of higher rent. A rich man pays tax from the excess of his wealth, the poor man pays tax out of the essential part of his. A rich man pays with a small portion of his fat removed, but a poor person pays with a large portion of his muscle. To think the poor don't pay their fair share of taxes based solely on income tax shows a complete lack of understanding.
i see your point but that is the whole point of having more money. you can buy things and it wont have as big of an impact on you so you dont have to worry as much about money as other people. if the price of products were based on how much money you made it would be unfair to the people that make more. why do they need to pay more for the same thing?
and i say this a lot but apparently you guys dont listen. you make it seem that all CEOs are big greedy wall street bankers. you forget that most "CEOs" are hard working small business owners that are employing a lot of people. do they have to pay more for a loaf of bread because they had a good idea worked hard and made something of him or herself? no. that totally goes against what this country was based and created on.
No where did I say that the rich should pay more for bread. The point was made that even non taxable items contain hidden taxes.
yeah taxes that everyone pays? i dont see your point then at all.
Yes, everyone pays taxes, but many of them are hidden. They are passed on down to the end user just as if they were a raw material. If the cost of oil goes up, who pays more for a gallon of gas, the customer. If corporate taxes goes up, who pays more for a gallon of gas, the customer. Where does the corporation get the money to pay increased taxes, from the increased price of a gallon of gas.
gas is taxed by the government. duh. the oil companies set the price and the government sets the tax and they receive the tax. the corporation doesnt pay the tax before the people buy the product.
if the rich were taxed more on everyday things, they would in effect not bye as many things in turn not put as much money into the economy and then there would be less jobs which is just another reason why the so called "rich" are helping our economy and jobs.
The most profitable industries in the world (energy, healthcare, finance) have been given billions in government handouts and tax breaks. Meanwhile, they keep raising charges causing hardship for millions. With all those massive handouts, tax breaks, and obscene charges, profits rise to record high levels. Millions in bonuses are paid to the executives. With record high profits, record high dividends are paid. 40% of all dividends in the United States are paid to the richest one percent. All of this causes a gradual concentration of wealth and income. This results in a net loss for the lower majority who find it more and more difficult to cover the record high cost of living, which again, is directly proportional to record high profits for the rich. As more and more people struggle to make ends meet, more and more financial aid becomes necessary. Most of which goes right back to the health care industry through Medicare, Medicaid, and a very expensive prescription drug plan. This increases government spending. This has been happening for 30 years now. During the same time, tax rates have been lowered drastically for the richest one percent. Especially those who profit from investments. These people pay only 15 percent on capital gains income. As even more wealth concentrates, the lower majority find it more difficult to sustain there share of the consumer driven economy. Demand drops as more and more people go broke. Layoffs results. Unemployment rises. This results in less revenue and more government debt.
Massive subsidies and tax breaks for Wall Street, massive tax breaks for the super rich, heavy concentration of wealth, record high charges along with record high profits and record high cost of living, more hardship for the lower majority, more government spending in the form of financial aid to compensate, more concentration of wealth, less demand, layoffs and unemployment. All of this results in slower economy and less tax revenue. At the same time more and more financial aid becomes necessary. It's a horrible downward cycle which gradually pushes the national debt higher and higher. The other big factors are the wars in the Middle East.
This post is not intended to excuse those who sit on the couch collecting welfare, make no attempt to find work, or squease out kids they can't provide for.
jesus you guys are either relentless or just stupid. the top one percent are not just people making millions of dollars and getting massive bailouts. there is bairly a handful of people that apply to what you guys are talking about.
fact, the top one percent income starts at about 400,000 dollars.
Jesus you guys are either illiterate or just stupid.
Like I said, the most profitable industries in the world receive hundreds of billions per year in US Federal, State, and local subsidies. These benefits are not shared proportionally with the workforce. In fact, wages have actually fallen on average for the vast majority over the last 30 years after adjusting for inflation. Instead, these benefits, along with obscene charges, cause profits to rise to record high levels. These profits are passed on in the form of salaries and bonuses for the executives, accountants, attorneys, lobbyists, ect. Also in the form of dividends. 40% or more of which are paid directly to the richest 1%.
In other words the Federal, State, and local subsidies, which are drawn FROM a number of sources and across income levels, have for decades, resulted primarily in higher pay for the richest 1%. This wealth of the 1% has accumulated to around 40% total, and 43% financial (more than double that of 1976) causing the middle class to shrink and the lower class to expand resulting in greater need for financial aid thereby driving up the national debt.
Those of us who are not constrained by a partisan thought process understand how this fundamentally alters the argument that we are somehow dependent on the rich.
again, all you are talking about is corporations getting federal dollars. that does not happen in small town USA, or small businesses.
The richest 1% own at least 40% of the market. A portion of their wealth has been subsidized.
so you want the government to stop helping people starting businesses, though its not much if any at all, and you want them to help the welfare recipients? which one of those two things would better help the economy.
Love your work.
You seem to be very dedicated to your research and fairly unbiased in your delivery.
Something that this place really needs.
Thankyou for your efforts.
Thank you. Glad to be on the same team.
[Removed]
"Corporate profits have been partially subsidized with federal, state, and local revenue. This benefit has been hoarded at the top."
The lower income classes are ALSO heavily subsidized with federal, state, and local revenues. Are they "hoarding it" at the bottom as well?
And here's a nifty chart showing where the Federal Government gets it's revenue- http://mercatus.org/publication/government-spending-101/where-does-government-get-money-it-spends
Please note that it shows that- "Forty-five percent of federal tax revenue comes from individuals’ personal income taxes. Another 39 percent comes from Social Security and Medicare withholdings. Since half of Social Security and Medicare taxes come directly out of people’s paychecks, about 65 percent of taxes the federal government collects come from individuals. Thirty-two percent of taxes come to the government from corporations. Estate and gift taxes, sources of significant debate, account for only 1 percent of federal tax revenues."
So...when you add in Social Security AND medicare taxes collected by the Federal Government-(which "the rich" also pay and in higher amounts than the poor)-65% of the taxes collected by the Federal Government come from individual tax payers (which also includes "the rich"). THEN another 32% of the Federal tax revenue comes from CORPORATIONS.
Aren't those evil bastards whom you hate? You make it very clear that "the poor" and "the middle class" aren't part of that evil group so doesn't that mean that an ADDITIONAL 32% of Federal revenue is completely and fully taken from "the rich"?
"When you account for all FEDERAL, STATE, and LOCAL taxes and fees, the middle class actually pay about the same rate (as a percentage of income) as the rich. The difference is within 5 percent. It shouldn't be that way."
Every time I ask you to PROVE this statement by showing me the data charts that demonstrate how much each class pays in total "Federal, Local and State" taxes-you ADMIT that no such data exists.
How the hell can you and I have a rational debate when your memory is so bad?
I've already responded to those points many times.
You're confusing issues, answers, and debates had with others. Not you.
So, if the 99% are too poor, being unemployed and underpaid and you say the 1% arent paying the load of the taxes,,,, please,,, please,, please,,, explain who IS pay the taxes to run country and all the social programs. I'm middle income and I pay my full load of taxes and know our middle income taxes doesnt make up the difference. So if we and the 1% arent paying the load,,,, who do you suggest is? I say the 1%.
Once again Modestcapitalist is attempting to sell his "as a percentage of income" argument again....
He is aware that those in the top 1% actually DO pay the bulk amount of the actual dollars of taxation, but his hatred for the successful causes him to use any means necessary..... misleading, distorting, or incorrect to sell others on this foolish point..
According to the same CBO report he uses as a credible source in other posts: http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/collections.cfm?collect=13
the top 1% of income earners EARNED 19.4% of income in 2007, and paid 39.5% of Federal Income Taxes, and 4.1 % of Social Entitlement Payroll taxes.....(and 28.1% of ALL federal taxes combined)
That means the top 1% paid more in taxation shares than they earned in income shares....BUT, that is not the final answer....
Federal income tax revenue in 2007 was: 1,533,700,000,000
Federal Social Entitlement Payroll taxes in 2007 were: 869,600,000,000
So the top 1% (139.300,000 total tax returns filed in 2007, according to IRS) are 1,393,000 Americans...
They paid: 650,811,500,000 in Federal Income Taxes
They paid: 35,653,600,000 in Federal Social Insurance Payroll taxes
Total: 686,465,100,000 in combined Income/Social Insurance taxes
$492,796.20 Average, Per Tax Return.....
How much was paid by the bottom 60% (83,580,000 Americans) who earned 25.5% of income and paid 1.3% (yep, that is correct) of Federal Income taxes and 32.2% of Social Insurance taxes
They Paid: 19,938,100,000 of Federal Income Taxes
They Paid: 280,011,200,000 of Federal Social Insurance Taxes
Total: 299,949,300,000
$3588.77 Average; Per Tax Return
60% of Tax Paying Americans Paid HALF as much...in the two largest revenue sources of ANY sector of government....as did 1% of Tax paying Americans....even though they earned a 25% larger share of overall income....
On an average; Per-Tax Payer basis....... those in the 1% pay 137 times more than those in the bottom 60%
If done with the top 10% (the threshold of "the Rich" by the CBO) who earned 42% of income in 2007, and paid 72.7% of Federal Income Taxes in 2007 and 25.4% of Federal Insurance Taxes in 2007....the disparity would be FAR greater.....
Modestcapitalists contention that the lower incomes pay equal amounts is just false.....although he uses the distortion of "as a percentage of income"...which is supposedly based on State, Local, Sales and Real estate taxes.......let me ask YOU, the reader, if you pay taxes....who do you pay more to? federal or state and local?.....
comprehend the contention for yourself....I think you'll see who pays more.....
Once again, scammersworld quotes Federal statistics exclusively in response to a post addressing TOTAL effective tax rates as a percentage of income. Once again, he intentionally excludes State and Local taxes and fees because they tend to be far less progressive or even regressive in some cases. Not to mention hundreds of billions in Federal, State, and local subsidies for corporations. The benefits of which are hoarded at the top.
The most profitable industries in the world (energy, healthcare, finance) have been given billions in government handouts and tax breaks. Meanwhile, they keep raising charges causing hardship for millions. With all those massive handouts, tax breaks, and obscene charges, profits rise to record high levels. Millions in bonuses are paid to the executives. With record high profits, record high dividends are paid. 40% of all dividends in the United States are paid to the richest one percent. All of this causes a gradual concentration of wealth and income. This results in a net loss for the lower majority who find it more and more difficult to cover the record high cost of living, which again, is directly proportional to record high profits for the rich. As more and more people struggle to make ends meet, more and more financial aid becomes necessary. Most of which goes right back to the health care industry through Medicare, Medicaid, and a very expensive prescription drug plan. This increases government spending. This has been happening for 30 years now. During the same time, tax rates have been lowered drastically for the richest one percent. Especially those who profit from investments. These people pay only 15 percent on capital gains income. As even more wealth concentrates, the lower majority find it more difficult to sustain there share of the consumer driven economy. Demand drops as more and more people go broke. Layoffs results. Unemployment rises. This results in less revenue and more government debt.
Massive subsidies and tax breaks for Wall Street, massive tax breaks for the super rich, heavy concentration of wealth, record high charges along with record high profits and record high cost of living, more hardship for the lower majority, more government spending in the form of financial aid to compensate, more concentration of wealth, less demand, layoffs and unemployment. All of this results in slower economy and less tax revenue. At the same time more and more financial aid becomes necessary. It's a horrible downward cycle which gradually pushes the national debt higher and higher. The other big factors are the wars in the Middle East. One of which was waged in order to protect one of the largest oil reserves in the world.
The oil industry has not contributed one dime to the effort. Instead, they continue to lobby congress for massive subsidies and tax breaks. The benefits of which again, will be hoarded at the top.
All of this sheds a whole new light on those 'Federal' statistics.
Well, except to scammersworld. His eyes have been surgically removed and replaced with tiny video screens which are constantly updated with the latest die-hard conservative talking points and 'official data' chosen exclusively by his die-hard conservative partisan puppet masters.
Another thing: The richest 1% are reaping well over 19.4% of all household income in America.
Scammersworld still doesn't understand the distinction between 'equal amount' and 'effective rate'. I've made the distinction many times with him. He just doesn't get it.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=456
Here's a link showing what the FEDERAL effective tax rates are for EACH and every quintile. I'd like ModestCapitalist to now use the figures shown for "the poor" and the "middle class" in his tax calculations and let us all know what happens to his results. Wouldn't you? I'd be thrilled to see that research....anyone else???
Get to work MC....can't wait to read your write up on this.....popcorn will be ready!!
Again, you critics keep reverting back to FEDERAL tax rates exclusively. The whole point was to expand the discussion beyond Federal statistics.
We're all way ahead of you. The calculations have already been done.
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2009.pdf
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2010.pdf
http://www.ctj.org/pdf/irstop400may2011.pdf
Come back when you have something to contribute regarding TOTAL effective tax rates including Federal, State, and Local taxes and fees.
Like information from a left wing, labor union funded group like CTJ? Naw
There is no spin here. You guys are jealous of the money the rich make and so want their 'incomes' to be taxed further. Which is why it was pointed that the rich pay 37% of all income tax. And there was never any ambiguity here, it was clearly mentioned that only income tax was being considered.
Stop being a drama queen.
Put down 'Psychology for Dummies'. Its not working for you.