Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: the problem is not taxes or spending - its Obama's inflation rate

Posted 1 year ago on Feb. 22, 2013, 7:53 p.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement


Today's inflation rate is 1.59%
America can borrow money by issuing T-bills & T-bonds at 2%-3%
and do an FDR type WPA & TVA and put a million people to work

OR

we can try a European austerity program - but the Rs would neve subscribe to anything "European"

OR

we can just tax the 1% & the corps as Ike did


what do you think would be best for the 99%

84 Comments

84 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Pass Glass Steagall to wipe out the fictitious debt, and put a 1% tax on Wall Street sales of financial products. Considering the way their computers make those trades it should add up quickly.

Establish a national bank to finance large scale FDR type projects like you mentioned would be great.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

GS should be done - but how does that wipe out debt? The ultra fast trades contribute nothing to America
they can create havoc
I would like to see 5% on trades less than one day
0.5% on regular trades
0% on IPOs & secondary offerings - that pump money into t he economy

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

GS would wipe out debt by separating investment banks from commercial banks, that is the government guarantee provided to commercial banks would no longer cover the investment banks, so those that are not solvent would go out of business.

Investment banks are the ones that offer derivatives, highly leveraged investments that create huge debt when they go bad.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

So you are saying this would get the US out of insuring FUTURE risks taken by investment banks.
I do not know, but would the "new" investment banks, losing their commercial deposits would be insolvent?
I'm all i n favor of the separation because WE should not back the wall st g amblers, but I would think that if the "new" investment bank needed liquidity, they could issue bonds
maybe I am confused between liquidity and insurance

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Yes, it would get US out of insuring future risks from investment banks as well as past losses, that is the accumulated debt of some billions or trillions of dollars. If it is done on a global scale, the people of the world would be off the hook for the international bankers quadrillions of dollars in debt.

Those debts would be "set aside" and allowed to de-value to the point at which somebody will want to buy them. The commercial banks would be insolvent, because they would lose their government guarantee, that is, we don't have to bail them out with our tax money any more.

When you speak of "new" investment banks, I'm nor sure I understand your meaning, but I'll try to answer what I think you are asking. New investment banks, that is, privately owned banks, would not be insured and would have to "survive by their wits" as some of them are beginning to realize. Their scale would be reduced quite a bit from today's standards.

The new economic development bank would be a public bank, that is, owned by we the people, and its purpose would be primarily to provide credit for economic development projects.

It would finance contemporary projects, like FDR's New Deal, at low interests rates over the long term, that is, decades. These projects would employ millions of people at decent pay, circulating a lot of money, while improving the efficiency of our economy.

The revenue earned by these projects, would pay off the credit provided by the public bank. This is more or less the way things have been done during the most prosperous periods of US history.

Some examples would be the boom following the expansion of the rail system by Lincoln during the civil war, FDR's new deal, JFK's space program, all of these resulted in booming economies through public investment in infrastructure projects.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Borrow money from who? Why is the government borrowing money from anything?

The constitution gives the Congress the authority to create and regulate money. They chose to hand that power off to the private banking cartel who manipulates the government and dishes out money through private bank lending. It's a fucking scam.

Why is the Federal Reserve the biggest owner of government debt if the federal reserve bought that debt by creating the money from nothing?

You guys need to listen to me just this one time. We need monetary reform. Like in Kucinich's HR 2990 the NEED Act. You might remember Kucinich, he's the guy always voting NO on war and voting no to fund it. He's the guy who actually tried to get us single payer healthcare. He is the guy who is a real liberal working for the 99%. He might be out but it doesn't mean we can't push his ideas.

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I think Kucinich is great ( like Sanders & Grayson & Warren ) but I do not sign on to everything a given pol advocates ( ahem - like Obama )
I do believe trying to achieve the impossible is a waste of time.
I guess I am more pragmatic than you are.
I am not a Fed expert at all, and many of the goals HR2990 seem good,
but "ending the fed" & "new money" will never happen.

My position is looking at the goal - JOBS
not pre-selecting the path to get there and picking the most likely method to get to that goal

Taxing the 1% can be done if we have a pro 99% House. Borrowing money at today's 2%-3% can be done if we have a pro-99% house


SPECIFICALLY- HR2990 -
had how many supporters in 2012?
has been re-introduced by who?
how many thousands of Americans have signed petitions to
"end the fed" or "create new money" ?


I would ask you to consider other roads to JOBS
ending the fed is not a goal

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

so you think monetary policy where money is created and given to the banks we're protesting is just fine?

Why would you not support monetary reform?

How many supporters did single payer have? Should that mean we need to give up on that?

You don't seem to like solutions. You like band-aids.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I like ( which means work for ) solutions that CAN work & CAN be passed
and yes - I'd rather use a bandaid than wait for the best doctor in the world & bleed to death

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

You are ridiculous.

So I suppose you don't support single payer health care either? Because it can't be passed? You probably don't like peace either, because it can't be passed? You probably don't like provisions banning indefinite detention of Americans either, because it can't be passed?

How many days has Bradley Manning been indefinitely detained since Obama said he would not allow Americans to be indefinitely detained under his administration?

Keep propagating for those people that can win!!!! They bring us great progress like wars based on lies and indefinite detention laws and sell us out to corporations. but hey as long as they can win, right?

You seem not to worry about the policies GIVING TRILLIONS to banks and corporations that then manipulate and corrupt the government.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

You are getting hysterical - with name calling & telling me what I believe.
Your sincere brilliance has just overwhelmed me.
Maybe you would feel better if your doctor upped your dose.
byebye

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Its either what you believe or you're a hypocrite. Pick your poison.

What doctor? You're being hypocritical with comments like that too. You act like you've never insulted me.

Just keep propagandizing for the people killing civilians and giving trillions to banks. Maybe you'll be the one to end war and stop giving trillions to banks

[Removed]

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

well - it looks like Mitch is going to be gone soon
sooooooo sad

[Removed]

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I can't wait to hear the Rs whining that actors should not be politicians

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 1 year ago

Here's a better graph showing inflation/CPI for the last 100 years. Since 1982, under Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, and Obama, inflation has been relatively constant. Inflation is completely unrelated to President or political party.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CWUR0000SA0

Clearly the problem is a result of the government spending more than they are taking in.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Obummers inflation rate? Ummm NO. This is a systemic fuck-up of government - state and federal - and is from catering to GREED.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

People used to call Ike a corporate puppet for a reason.

Banks get bailed out, we are still sold out...

To the tune of 85 Billion a month.

[+] -4 points by DSamms (-294) 1 year ago

The official inflation rate is deliberately understated...

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

the number comes from
http://www.inflationdata.com
what proof do you have about them understating it
or - again - is this a fact you found in your toilet?

[-] 0 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago
[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

That ain't proof of anything. And anyone can make a youtube that spews whatever bullshit they want.

In any event we agree the govt inflation number is inaccurate, inflation is a problem, and we must invest in big jobs programs., and raise taxes on the wealthy.

BAM!!!

[+] -4 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Nope. Gubment cannot invest in big jobs programs. Gubment only destroys jobs.

The wealthy are offshoring and rightly so. More power too them.

[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Tell that to FDR
Do you know who he is?
Do you live in the NJ in America?
Or in China

[Removed]

[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Outsourcing should be punished as traitorous, unamerican, and anti labor.

Labor is the MOST important factor in economic growth, andthe American society!!

[-] -2 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. It's a global economy. Don't like it, too bad. It's here to stay.

[-] 3 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

We can stop giving corp tax breaks for outsourcing. That ain't here to stay.

[-] -2 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

There's no such thing as corp tax breaks for outsourcing. It's a democrat talking point that's fiction. You donkeys love to peddle that fiction to the masses.

[-] 3 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Nope. It's real, Dems tried to correct it, Repubs defeated (corp 1% puppet fucks)

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/senate-kills-anti-outsourcing-bill-democrats-point-to-romney/

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/10/05/968751/romney-outsourcing-tax-breaks/

In any event we CAN pass tax laws that punish outsourcing, and reward insourcing.

That is what we need!!

[-] -3 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Stop lying.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/329456/tax-credit-outsourcing-fiction-kevin-d-williamson

And I'll repeat...It's a global economy. Don't like it, too bad. It's here to stay. There's not thing one you can do about it.

[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

I disagree, the outsourcing tax benefit is real. My links prove it. here's a 3rd.

http://economyincrisis.org/content/senate-can-vote-to-end-tax-breaks-for-outsourcing-and-bring-jobs-home

In any event we CAN pass tax laws that punish outsourcing, and reward insourcing.

That is what we need!!

[-] -3 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Your links prove zippy.

[-] 5 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Companies are outsourcing because they put profits over people. They are greedy! They can do fine paying the higher salaries and making less profit.

There should have been, and need to be laws that prohibit corps from paying slave wages (here or abroad)

I would not discourage corps from comin here. I would insist they do come here, if they wanna sell here.

Laws and regulations must be created to protect people from unscrupulous corps who put profits over people.

Nafta may have been sign be moderate, transitional, DLC Clinton (after he got symbolic concessions for labor/environment) but it was created under Bush I and pushed by conservatives in order to benefit corp 1% oligarchs.

So Clinton (and any politician who supported nafta) failed.

So? We still have a duty to bring jobs back,and using the tax code is potent because it speaks to what the outsourcers understand, profits. Gotta hit 'em where it hurts.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Corps need to pay as much ( one way or another ) for operations they conduct off-shore as they would here. For promoting fair wages world wide as well as promoting fair competition world wide as well as promoting clean operations requirements world wide.

[-] -2 points by freakyfriday (179) 1 year ago

They COULD do fine with less profit if Americans made their purchases based on "made in" instead of price. We have voted with our wallets to send jobs overseas and then blame the evil corporations.

[-] -2 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

"They can do fine paying the higher salaries and making less profit."

Wrong. They're competing against others doing the same exact thing. At some point, you go broke. Just look at several divisions of GM which are gone. Look at Detroit today; it looks like Hiroshima after it was bombed.

You aren't going to hit anyone where it hurts. You have no leverage. WHY DO YOU THINK TIM GEITHNER GOES OVER TO CHINA BEGGING FOR MONEY??? You're still in the 1950's mentality. We have 50 million people on food stamps because of your way of thinking.

[-] -3 points by BlueMonday (-154) 1 year ago

a companys responsibility is to make money, if they dont they go out of business and more people are on unemployment.

[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

If the bill is not effective....

We CAN write & pass tax laws that punish outsourcing, and reward insourcing.

That is what we need!! Right?

[-] -3 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Wrong. We need less laws and bills, not more. We're going blind on rules and regs. There's so many conflicting rules and regs, no one can keep track of them anymore. And there are an assload of unintended conmsequences the more laws that are made.

Today, laws are being used as a weapon. If some big corporation sponsors a bill that only affects smaller companies, the bill can run the competition out of business. You think that's by accident? It doesn't help when you have 2000 page bills. Who the hell is gonaa read all that crap?

Get it? You don't pour more gasoline on a house fire.

BTW, guess who signed NAFTA... it wasn't a Republican.

Are you going to punish companies that relocate here from other countries? They're just outsourcing from their originating country's point of view, like Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, Nissan, etc building car factories and employing Americans here. See, you only see one side of any argument. Companies are outsourcing BECAUSE of so many bad laws on the books already.

That is what we need!! Right?

[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

And I believe yours prove nothing as well.

But.......

We CAN pass tax laws that punish outsourcing, and reward insourcing.

That is what we need!! Right?

[-] -3 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Wrong. It's a meaningless bill that does nothing. It's symbolism, not substance.

[-] 3 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

I disagree. Corps can make enough profit & still be competitive without having to exploit 3rd world workers.

You're mentality is what has allowed corps to squeeze american labor, bust unions, outsource our jobs, exploit 3rd world workers, pollute 3rd world countries all to simply increase exec compensation to obscene levels & stockholder div rather than hire Americans.

It is self destructive. It is pennywise and dollar foolish. It must change in order to correct the income inequity that is destroying America.

[-] -2 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Well, disagree all you want. At the end of the day, business finds it more economically viable not to deal with the American worker. Either you adjust your frame of reference or you don't.

It's not like the global economy needs the U.S. It's the other way around, whether you like it or not.

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

You can submit to the spin/lies of corp 1% oligarchs. I KNOW different.

And yeah corps (and the world) need America just fine. We are still the largest, wealthiest middle class consumer market that will buy any plastic crap a corp wants to push on us.

We just gotta grow a bigger pair. and tell EVERY corp that they MUST hire some percent of Americans or they cannot do business here.

The corp 1% oligarchs must be told by the peoples govt (if/when we take it back from the corps) That THEY serve US!!!! We will determine how things are done.

The days of corp 1% oligarchs threatening the people, getting a free ride and exploiting the worker MUST end. OWS (and many newly empowered progressive groups) is clearly the start of a reeducation of these facts.

DON'T believe the corp threats, blackmail. We must regain control, and exert pressure.

[-] 3 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

Smarter policies of Germans do not permit so much wealth and jobs to vanish, by favoring local manufacturing, so peoples wages have gone up 5 times faster than americans since the eighties. More power to the German people.

http://prospect.org/article/germanys-economic-engine-0

[-] -2 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Yes, and in Germany you're expected to pull your own weight. You don't expect the crappy labor you get from Americans. It's an entirely different culture. Americans want something for nothing. Just look at OWS. It's all about asking someone else, anyone else to pay more taxes so OWS members can be part of the FSA.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (26017) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

So obviously - You are insane - or - You are one of the Greedy Abusers - ooops - same thing really = Insane.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2697) 1 year ago

I work hard. The people I know work hard.

If they don't work hard here they get fired.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

So we should import more Turks?

You shouldn't be so hard on your own efforts, although your labor here has been more than a little crappy.

You could try harder, I'm sure.

[+] -4 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

You sound like an idiot. He isn't even disagreeing with you.

I'll take an independent economist like shadow stats which EXPLAINS wtf is going on vice a gubment agency like the BLS whose goal is to keep inflation statistics low so they don't have to raise the COLAs for seniors.

More to the point, if you really want TECHNICAL affirmation, Peter Schiffs "Crash Proof 2.0" Page 98 thru 109 will set you straight. Try it. You may learn something.

[-] 5 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

But Schiff is just a Wall st 1%'r Ron Paulian, libertarian/republican, whose only agenda is to sell us commodities and prevent monetary policy that might improve economy (and depress commodity prices)!

He is absolutely NOT interested in helping the 99%!!! He (and his shadowy cohorts) is the LAST one we should listen to. In fact if he says turn right, we should turn left. So it is useful to hear what he and the shadow syndicate spew but only to do the opposite.

He is just a Schiffty guy. Get it? LOL

[-] -3 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

I don't care about your 99% vs. 1% games. He's grounded in ECONOMICS and NUMBERS. Got it?

He explains the economics behind what's happening, whether you like it or not.

[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

He's a self serving ,apocalyptic, gold hoarder/salesman who has no interest in improving the economy.

He has been preaching economic doomsday for years, has prepped for it and would lose financially if we succeed in continued economic recovery.

He should be disregarded as a greedy wall st vulture capitalist.

He is the problem.

[-] -3 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago
[-] 3 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

You have linked to a survivalist website, with survivalist seeds, and commodities adds. The 20 items listed are unrelated to a coming economic collapse, or just plain inaccurate.

This is a joke. I don't subscribe to the doomsday prepper world.

[-] 3 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

I believe your shadowy group has said the economy will crash in 8 months.

What are you doing to prep for that doomsday?

[-] -2 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

I am prepared as one can possibly be.

I have no debt, own everything I possess, and have much of my assets in property, physical assets and not holding U.S. dollars or many paper assets. That's all one can do.

[-] 3 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Well if things collapse wouldn't it be smart to go into heavy debt, buy gold and when the crash comes disregard the debt repayment.

Claim bankruptcy. Then in the post apocalyptic world you will have the gold to barter for the best canned cat food/& bullets.?

[-] -2 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Nope. No debt is best.

[-] 3 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

But when the collapse comes their will be no corps to collect the debt.

Run up the cr card, they will fail in oct!!!!

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Try again- the number comes from http://www.inflationdata.com what proof do you have about them understating it or - again - is this a fact you found in your toilet?

[-] -2 points by whaddyathink (-89) from Millville, NJ 1 year ago

Yes, you have all the numbers in the world. You just don't know what to do with them or how to interpret them. Hence your endless life here whining.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Go look at your bills.

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

my $5 has Linclon on it

[+] -4 points by DSamms (-294) 1 year ago

If you're not smart enough to click the provided link, there's not much I can do to help you. What is your proof I'm wrong -- government stats? Lord knows they've no reason to understate the official inflation rate.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Still smarting from your bogus R quotes on the sequester bensdad? Really, I must know, how did you manage to confuse the Prez's chief of staff with a R senator?

[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

MY bogus R quotes
where ? ? ?

[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Excellent post. Although the monetary system is just corrupt bankers helping corrupt bankers (real reform needed there), and govt numbers (inflation, unemployment) always fudged somehow, i support your suggestion that we must raise taxes on the1% to Ikes levels, certainly not impose European austerity that has obviously failed, and definitely initiate an FDR sized jobs investment effort.

[-] 5 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

ThanQ
The monetary system is corrupt - wall st - koch - etc etc etc
The answer is simple to state but difficult to do
Make bribery illegal
Virtually all of the 1% money that bought our democracy is LEGAL.
Most of what OWS is working for has huge amounts of money
fighting us.
Passing the new bill HJR29, ending citizens united & corporate personhood will enable us to sever capitalism from democracy.


http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com


[-] 4 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 1 year ago

Agreed, I'm not against real reform of monetary system, but the users on this forum who spew on it seem more interested in using monetary reform as an excuse to avoid other necessary action (job creation, taxing the rich).

Theyuse it and the supposedly inaccurate inflation rate as a distraction from the real action we must take.

But you always have the right action, and are never distracted.

Well done.

[-] -2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah, I like John Williams Shadow Stats. And it is easy to see that in the basket of goods - the government takes out anything that gets expensive. I don't buy beef or steak anymore. Fish looks expensive too. I buy chicken, but you can't fool me. Food is expensive.

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I believe the "basket" has been redefined many times, but the reaso I posted this was to show how inflation is NOT the problem, and how we fund a jo bs program and avoid Europe's austerity.

[-] 0 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I'm with you. Jobs Committee was terminated as successful. But it was only successful for the banking Cartel to keep power and keep grinding us all down into austerity.

Washington DC has no Creativity, they have no vision. I was thinking last night ... It really takes a Tough Leader to Fix this country. A real Leader has to buck all the crap about how the system works. The system is defined by the control freeks that took over the White House and Congress.

We can redefine the system and its structure. But it takes a leader willing to put his life at risk and his family at risk ... and he has to fool the Lobbyist until he gets in office. FDR seems to have supporters and detractors. But he put people back to work ... and he force Interest Rates at banks down. Today the banks are no loaning money. The incentives for the banks is to invest in High yeild Risky Derivatives or get into casino type gambling. 5 years of low interest rates ... and the banks are not investing. There is no structure or support for new Jobs.

Obama must know this, but he has conflict of interest. He is trying to keep a lot of people happy. But no real Jobs program.

How about a Huge $200 Billion dollar a year Solar Energy Project in all 50 States, phased development, small starts after purchasing or annexing the land and setting up perimeter security, start slow to stimulate R&D, Stimulate university projects, Stimulate K-12 laboratories and contests with federal grant money. Think how to source the labor, materials, designs, managment in the USA only, use smart university types to managment the start and development of the project,... maybe use the Army Corp of Engineers to find the many cites in all 50 states... except probably wind would be better in Alaska not solar?

The jobs part of the project would have to take a lot of work. Thinking like upstream and downstream. Edcuation helps starting in K-12. There would be few on site jobs for Solar Power or Turbine power I'm thinking. But would be manufacturing, robot maintenance maybe in manufacturing, designs change, materials change, who will test materials ... maybe the university level and K-12 level people.

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

While I realize Obama has to deal with political realities, I have been disappointed in Obam's not hitting back at thr R lies for four years.
By going diectly to the people ( finally ) he can get things done.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

Political realities like indefinitely detaining Americans like the hero that is Bradley Manning?

Political realities like keeping America at war as long as Bush?

Political realities like pushing WMD lies?

Republicans definitely share this blame, but if you want to talk about political realities, don't forget you support a mass murderer too! How many civilians died in Afghanistan after the surge? Wasn't it record numbers according to the UN?

You party hacks on this forum are a joke. You support people giving trillions of dollars to the banks on Wall Street that we are protesting. That is your political reality.

Your propaganda is bullshit, Bensdad. I'm sick of you republicans and democrats flooding this forum with 2 party propaganda bullshit.

You ignore reality and play politics with blind party allegiance.

[-] -1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

I wonder if he has the Power to force national Referendums. I mean he can do his survey, he can poll on line ... if he knows what the people want ... then force in a national vote in like Novemember 2013. Like yes or No Questions.

Do you want to end the war in Afghanistan, yes or no?
Do you want to pull out American Mercenaries in Iraq, yes or no?

Do you want to limit or curtail the number of US bases or camps in Foregin Countries by 60%, yes or no?
Do you want to close secret bases used for US or NATO Enhanced Interigation techniques, yes or no?
Do you want to end US CIA & Military use of all Enhanced Interogation Techniques, Yes or No?

Do you want to close US Bases in Germany, yes or No?
Do you wnat to close US Bases in Japan, yes or no?
Do you wnat to close US Bases in Spain, yes or no?
Do you want to close US Bases in Italy, yes or No?

The bigger point is to engage all US Voters in what we are doing, start national dialog, and reveal the deeper history and deeper backgrounds ... almost like a FOI request.

Do you want to audit the CIA programs and find out what they have been doing since the Vietnam War, what their mission is, what their operations ahve been, what kind of goals they have for different regions of the world, yes or no?

[-] 4 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Interesting idea. I am sure all pols pay attention to polls. Of couse many choose to ignore them. Some states have legal provisions for putting proposals / referenda on the ballot. Including some that can become law & overturn laws that the state has passed.
Michigan's emergency manager law, enabling the governor to appoint a local dictator and fire elected officials was overturned by the voters.
So the Rs passed another emergency manager law to override the people - with a financial component - so it could not be overturned by the people.


This is my biggest complaint about the Ds
Obama wanting to compromise, or Reid not killing the filibuster
the Ds are not prepared to deal with an opponent that will do ANYTHING for their masters - the 1%

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks the crime is activist & politicians acting like they never heard of a National Referedum. I'm not innocent. I've never protested.

But for a Senator or Congressmen to reply ... well we never though about that. We'll have to check that out with the lawyers and the Law Clerks ... and we'll get back to you. No way.

The system is set up to prohibit National Refernendums and to Suppress all people and all grassroots organizations.

It is just like the agenda for presidential Debates, and the committe that decide who qualitfies to be a third party participant in the presidential debates.

And of course they have a lock on all issues that are published by Washington or repsonded to by Washington ... because it takes money to be a politician, it takes money to pay for advertising, it takes money to set up the news cameras, it takes money to create spots on Radio, and it takes money to put the issues out in Print like newpapers and periodicals.... Game over.

Unless you can create national referendums. What a surprise.

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Neither are the R's. Its a duopoly gone insane.

http://www.occucards.com/republicrats/

The link above does an incredible job of explaining how the two party system, wedge issues and lobbying only a few people on each side work perfectly for the corporatists.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

That's a great link OTP. I've seen their occucards at OWS events, and we even had them on our OTS table a couple of times. I sent for a hundred cards, asking them to break the order up, 25 Wells Fargo info (shitty) cards, and 75 Republicrat cards...and I will distribute them in my area in NJ. At 14 cents (with postage) a piece, to a non-profit altruistic occupy org....that's an excellent way to progress our struggle.

In the comments section, I also asked them to consider producing a La Marea style card, like the flyer that i have made up, and distribute. And to also consider making a stamp for $ bills specifically geared for OWS. Anyway, Thanks, this is an excellent initiative to educate the broader public.

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Just one issue - constitutional amendments to overturn citizens united & corporate personhood - clearly the most powerful & important goal "against" the 1% -
almost all of the support for the 14 that have been introduced have come from ONE PARTY
but I am afraid to mention which one