Forum Post: The opposition is A-Political. The only thing they care about in politics is how best to use this tool - Politics..
Posted 12 years ago on June 1, 2012, 10:25 p.m. EST by DKAtoday
(33802)
from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The opposition. They are non-partisan. Though they would like you to believe that they are. They love to see the battle between political party supporters. They love to see the fighting between supporters of differing ideologies. They love to see fighting between liberal and conservative, between left right and center. They love it all. Why? Because it pulls us apart and distracts from their plan of action.
George Carlin has seven dirty words you can't say on TV.
Echelon has thousands of words that it is keyed to recognize and monitor the conversations where these words come up. Social media is one of those words. Media Blackout is a phrase.
Anyway Echelon is not really here or there. It just is something that is going on.
The opposition - the greedy corrupt criminals that are bribing government and is in the business of making and selling arms and is in the business of fossil fuel etc etc etc WallStreet Halliburton Shell BP Con ED Center point energy the Tennessee valley authority Koch Wells Fargo Goldman Sachs etc etc etc
They are all afraid of the rising unrest of the American people and in extension the people of the world.
Sure this is a small forum - but it is on the internet with world wide access.
The opposition is afraid of ideas and ideals. They are afraid that one is going to find fertile ground and grow.
Like perhaps the idea of a more direct type of Democracy.
Or the successful pushing of legislation like OSTA or reinstate Glass-Stegall or remove corporate personhood, or get money out of politics or green energy implementation or fossil fuel speculation regulation etc etc etc
They are terrified that we will become People Partisan, that we will realize that we have more in common then we have differences. They are terrified that we will unite.
And so they send out their blind marching foot soldiers to keep an eye on things everywhere and to keep things stirred up and contentious.
That is the enemy that is so concerned about a little insignificant forum.
Conservative Outside Groups Plan to Spend $1 Billion to Retake the White House.
Republican spending will dwarf that of Democrats.
By Suzanne Merkelson :
May 31, 2012 "Information Clearing House" ( http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ )
We always knew that the 2012 presidential election would be expensive. While President Obama’s super PAC has struggled to raise cash, a network of conservative outside groups, including those led by Karl Rove, the Koch brothers, as well as the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is planning to spend about $1 billion on the election in November, Politico reports :
That total includes previously undisclosed plans for newly aggressive spending by the Koch brothers, who are steering funding to build sophisticated, county-by-county operations in key states. POLITICO has learned that Koch-related organizations plan to spend about $400 million ahead of the 2012 elections – twice what they had been expected to commit.
Just the spending linked to the Koch network is more than the $370 million that John McCain raised for his entire presidential campaign four years ago. And the $1 billion total surpasses the $750 million that Barack Obama, one of the most prolific fundraisers ever, collected for his 2008 campaign.
The total also includes Restore Our Future, the main super PAC supporting Romney. That group spent $50 million in the primaries and looks to spend $100 million more. Karl Rove’s Crossroads groups are aiming to spend $300 million. Beating Obama is partially responsible for coalescing these different groups :
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fiat lux ...
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Suzanne Merkelson is the Associate Web Editor for United Republic, where she curates and comments on the day’s top money-in-politics news. She previously produced web content for Foreign Policy magazine and has written for the Chicago Tribune, Foreign Policy, and The Atlantic, among others.
[This this article was first published at United Republic http://unitedrepublic.org/2012/conservative-outside-groups-plan-to-spend-1-billion-to-retake-the-white-house/ & is copied here under "Fair Use" from : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31468.htm ]
Yep - we really need to get money out of politics.
The main problem is people who dont have a lot of money cant seem to get anyone to vote for them.....
government budget is ~3.7 trillion / year
Well said.Every day they post there garbage on this forum.Why would someone care less about OWS that does not share it's views.I can not imagine spending countless hours on a site I did not agree with or care for.They are either Paid or scared.
Paid by the scared? Mercenaries of the greedy corrupt criminal status-quo?
I must admit you do have a very good way with words.
No no just common sense stuff. Really.
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Goodnight EverBody.
Your delusions of grandeur have birthed the most ridiculous conspiracy theory yet.
Do you really believe the government, the 'Elite", the Illuminati, or some other magical force is really scared of this website which is full of nonsense and has like 20 regular users? Please...
The only people tearing OWS apart are OWS protesters themselves.
OWS is made up of people from various ideologies; socialists, capitalists, communists, anarchists, etc... Even the anarchists have various view points; anarcho-syndicalists, anarcho-communist, anarcho-individualist, etc... It is an inclusive protest.
We can all agree on the current problems in US and we can rally together against them, but we start to fall apart when we propose solutions and that is why we must remain a-political. OWS cannot become a solution machine or it will break apart. The labels socialist, capitalist, anarchist, etc... are used to point to systems which offer different solutions to similar problems. That is why we start seeing the ranks break up when some propose one type of solution over another. The solutions anarchists propose will not be acceptable to socialists. The solutions socialists propose will not be acceptable to capitalists, etc...
There's no evil force trying to tear us apart, except ourselves.
OWS must remain apolitical. It must remain a protest, and not a solution machine. There should be no talk of voting on this site, and the moderators should delete all political speech. This is destroying us from the core.
Sorry newbie.
It was bots and sock puppets that ruined this site, and it happened a while back. Toss in all the trolls ,that came here to bash everything OWS in any way they could, and this is what you get.
They chased many of the good, supportive posters away with their chat room, script kiddie behavior.
I've even seen redirects. Script kiddie crap.
It's been political from day one, whether that's what they wanted or not.
It's always been political.
Now all I seem to hear is people that what to stifle free speech and impose their own kind of tyranny.
Sorry Charlie, man is a political animal, and even your position is partisan in it's own way.
You should stop trying to push conspiracy theory anyway, I hear some folks around here frown on that kind of thing.
I disagree. When I used bots it was to go against conspiracy theorists. The last person who used bots was to go against fake OWS protesters trying to co-opt the protest into some kind of political group.
When an anti-government protest has many users who post free adverts form the Obama party in its forum, you know you have a problem.
I am not pushing a conspiracy theory, I am pointing to one. Where is the proof that some group is paid to attack this site. None whatsoever. There's only about 20 regular users here. Who would bother with that, except for OWS protesters who care about OWS and want the forum to be a better place (like me). The problem is the moderators who are not dong their job.
I'll repeat myself here. The forum rules were decided in a GA. As such, going against those rules is going against OWS consensus. Posting pro-Obama material is going against OWS consensus. Posting conspiracy theories is going against OWS consensus.
Blah, blah blah.
You just repeat yourself every time you come back.
If you repeat the lie often enough, it really doesn't make it true.
Bots are cowardly and childish..
Nothing more. Nothing more at all.
You are an admitted conspiracy theory, all by yourself.
You just postulated a whole 'nuther one too.
All about how progressives are tearing the movement to pieces.
You yourself, have done more damage to this web sites reputation than anything or anybody else, and you have done so repeatedly..........
And then you lie about it.
You are nothing but a contradiction.
Do you want to know how I help the movement? Do you have an open mind to check for a second. Drop your ad hominem and look. I wrote this piece 4 months ago. Yes, 4 months ago. I talked about a serious problem, a problem that was never rectified by anybody. This is one of the ongoing problems that has hurt the image of Occupy, but nobody cared or cares about this problem. Why? I don't know.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/learning-from-a-canadian-or-ows-marketing-follies/
Take a moment to read that piece, and tell me who's the one destroying Occupy? Those criticizing certain aspects of the protest like myself, those who accept everything the anarchists decide to do, or those who actively promote this type of problematic marketing?
From my vantage point, it is you who is always repeating himself.
I haven't used bots in 3 months. The only person talking about bots all the time is you.
You should deal with my arguments (if you can), instead of always throwing logical fallacies in the wind. I thought you had understood that I was all about the scientific method. You should be too.
Please.....shooz,you're such a whiner and complainer. Give it a rest will ya?
delusions of grandeur?
You came to that conclusion - How?
Who did you used to be? I mean if you were new I would understand your not knowing about the constant attacks on this site. But I think you have had experience here before this current character of yours.
And you turn up with an attempt to belittle.
I am thrasymaque and I have always worked to help this site. I fought against the conspiracy theorists, I was one of the first to understand what OWS really was, and now I am trying to explain to you why OWS must remain a protest and not a solution machine.
Yes, there were some attacks at various times. So what. The latest attacks in which you were being down voted can from an anarchist group who does not want OWS to become political and for good reason (the reason I explain above).
Open your eyes. The only people who care enough to attack this site are OWS protesters themselves who want the site to be really useful. The true people who attack it are the ones trying to change OWS into some kind of political machine.
The real problem is the moderators don't do their work. There are rules that were decided in a GA, but when people break those rules the moderators don't do anything. Look at all the conspiracy theories posted by Renaye, Reneye, and Renneye. Those are against the rules. Look at all the political talk lately. That is against the rules.
Again, the rules were decided upon in a GA by protesters on the ground, not the arm chaiir slackivists on this site. Breaking those rules is going against consensus.
OWS is not putting forward solutions. OWS is pointing out issues - the main issue being the rampant WallStreet white collar greed fueled crime and it's corrupt influence in government.
Well apparently the moderators do do their work as you keep getting booted. Your just to stupid and stubborn to take a hint and then take a hike.
The people who come here are not OWS though many support OWS.
The only one I see break rules on a regular basis would be you and the other attackers of this site. Hence your butt seen frequently flying through the door on your way out again.
Some in OWS are. Some people are running in the upcoming elections under the OWS banner. Some on this site spend countless hours each day advertising the solutions proposed by the Obama administration. There are countless other examples.
The moderators are not doing their job because they are not enforcing the forum rules, one of which is no conspiracy theories, another which is no political material. These types posts are all over the place. As for me, the reason I get banned is because I am sometimes critical of OWS. You see, OWS is like a cult in many aspects. One of those is the no tolerance policy towards criticize. However, I believe we can't reach truth without being critical of ourselves and of OWS. Auto-criticism is of upmost importance. I'm sad you don't see that.
You get criticized all the time - prior to your getting booted.
You continue with your crap without taking proper consideration of what your critics say.
I postulate that it is you who is blind and determined to fuck with this forum.
Well said.
Once again, this forum is given far too much credit.
You're actually proving DKAtoday's point, just as tupacsugar--who's always so sour--does. You won't see DKAtoday or (I don't believe) any of us trolling right-wing sites. To paraphrase Rhett Butler, Frankly, we don't give a damn about the right-wing sites.
You and others of your political persuasion, obviously care about this site, otherwise you wouldn't be posting here.
Thank you. It is obvious to almost all but not apparently to those doing it.
No, it's obvious to the real OWS protesters that the real problem is fake OWS protesters trying to turn the protest into a political machine. The right wingers are the least of our concerns. Everyone hates them anyways. The true danger for OWS are posters such as yourself that promote Obama instead of fighting against him like we should. OWS is supposed to be an anti-government protest, not some machine that advertises for the Obama camp.
Yeah, but you lied again.
You can't be trusted.
Why would a movement that proudly marches with unions try and prevent progressives from having anything to say here.
Why do aim your barb and bots only at progressive posters?
Far too many and nothing but lies from the persona of many names.
You don't need to trust me. My opinion is not based on pseudo-science, it is not based on faith. I provide logical well founded arguments. You can counter-argue properly if you want. Your use of ad hominem does nothing at all. My arguments remain standing tall.
The truth is, OWS is a protest machine because we can all agree on problems, but it cannot be a solution machine because different ideologies cannot agree on solutions, i.e. capitalists are not socialists because they have different solutions. No faith is required to follow this point. You can analyze what I say using logic. If you don't agree provide a logical reason why, don't just spite logical fallacies like a 5 year old child.
Use the scientific method. It's important. Logic, not logical fallacies. The only thing ruining this site is the ad hominem you and others love so much.
I don't use bots. I have said this many times.
I am partisan but not in the way you accuse - I am People Partisan.
But you can't or won't see that and I do not know if you can even grasp the concept.
I agree completely.
Honestly, I've never been to "right wing sites" - if you know of any good ones, please point me in that direction. Who knows, it might even divert some of my attention.
I don't have much interest in going to RW sites, I guess because I would find more people that I agree with rather than disagree with, I find the disagreement much more enjoyable - and productive. Granted, there will be an equal number of crackpots on RW sites that I would enjoy calling out for their crazy and unfounded ideas.
I have never searched for right-wing sites, probably because I don't consider that viewpoint valid. I hear enough right-wing propaganda spewed over the airwaves and from blow-hards, like Sean Hannity..
It is important to hear both sides though. I will admit listening to Hannity hurts, and that right-wing radio has a lot to do with the vitriol that is in politics today. That is why we should not get in the gutter with those guys. We should keep this struggle on the high road as much as possible.
Once I almost made it through the first paragraph of a Rush Limbaugh diatribe. Does that count?
No that's not enough. I listened to Hannity after visiting one daughter in VT which is a really cool progressive state. All my warm fuzzy feelings from being there went away on my trip home listening to Hannity. It is no wonder that this country has become so polarized. He is one hate-filled MFer. I'm getting ready to go into the 'belly of the beast' to visit my two other daughters in Alaska. There are little bastions where people still are able to think critically, but not many of them.
I would make a blank statement about right-wing windbags, but the left-wing mouthpieces are often just as bad. Very few seem willing to reasonably discuss issues. Instead, they quickly degenerate into name-calling fests.
Once, in a cab, the driver had some right-wing nut mouthing the typical party line. The commentator, whoever he was, could only spit the president's name as Barack HUSSEIN Obama. I asked the driver to turn off the radio.
Those "name-calling fests" are what this corrupt system has relied on to keep us under control, and it is something that has to stop if we are to succeed. Good story...you knew the quickest route though, right? I mean the cabbie didn't take you for a 'ride' after that, did he? lol
It was in San Antonio, so it wasn't much of a trip or a big fare either. At any rate, not to offend anyone, but San Antonio is a big disappointment, unless you're into ersatz Mexican, an abomination they cleverly call TexMex.
The only city I have been to in Texas is Austin, visiting friends on our way to NZ, which despite the fact that W resided there, it is quite progressive. It too though was a cultural shock to my friends, after having resided in NYC for several years. I was under the impression that San Antonio was one of the better cities in TX though. I guess not.
If you can get around the Alamo cult's worship of the past and the ersatz Mexican atmosphere, it is pleasant, especially along the Riverwalk.
I personally prefer the Dallas-Fort Worth area to San Antonio. I do like El Paso, aside from the overall gritty feel of a border town. Still, I usually wander across the border to Juarez, in spite of the crime problems, for some good food and beer.
Oh, I believe Austin is consider the San Francisco of Texas, the most progessive city in Texas. My friends in eastern New Mexico refer to their neighboring state as Tex ass.
Yes I've heard the river running through SA is gorgeous, and I suspect there are cool, cutesy places to eat, and have a good time. 'Real' is always better to me though, but the unreal fantasy is always good especially after a a long cold winter in Vermont, and and on the 'boats' as an MM. After that there is nothing better than warmth, and a rum and coke at a pool-bar!
I always get a 'kick' out of parochial, 'my city/state is better than yours' attitudes.' Vermonters view New Yorkers in the same light as Oregonians view Californians, and it is not in a good way. NYC is the least parochial, I think, cept'n of course those f...ing Red Sox. The Onion did a great really funny article on NYC, asking if living there with all the crap that goes on is worth it just for bigger bagels. lol Both Vt and OT are very progressive states in that they are both enviromentally, and socially conscious. The two best enviromental law schools are located in these states, Lewis and Clark, and VT Law School. I remember Susan Anton getting booed at the OR state fair when she said that she was up form Ca. In NJ, we know it is screwed up, and don't try to defend it, so that is healthy anyway. In Alaska the saying is, 'if TX pisses them off anymore, they are going to cut AK in half, thereby making TX the third largest state.
Come to Vegas: gorgeous women, free booze at a lot of places if you do minimum gambling; downtown (the old Las Vegas) most of the bars will give you free call liquor while playing the quarter machines. It's cheaper to play the machines and lose than buy the booze. There's also plenty of pools at various resorts with (sorry ladies, but good for the guys) topless "beaches."
Finally, away from the Strip (modern, glamour Vegas) you can find very nice rooms for very little money. Try the Station Casinos or Sam's Town.
I'll cancel my trip for Tuesday to AK to see my prodigies, and just tell them that I am going to Vegas for warmth....nothing shallow. That will 'go over like a led baloon, but sometimes a man has to do what he has to do. Don't tell GirlFriday though as I do not want to catch her wrath! lol
Ah! New Mexico! Great State!
But "eastern" New Mexico has several different demographics depending on how far north or south you are. And to make such a broad - and erroneous - generalization tells me you have no clue what you're talking about.
You certainly are hostile. I don't remember putting down a culture; I only said I didn't care for San Antonio because of the ersatz Mexican atmosphere and the Alamo cult. I do have a perfect right to give my opinion, even of Texas, whether you like it or not. You can criticize Nevada, I don't care. It's the place where I live, not some beloved piece of earth.
You're welcome to publish your real name and address, if you so choose, next I'm in Texas, I'll be glad to meet you. Maybe we can share a beer as you beat your chest and give a real Tarzan call.
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Besa me cula, cabrón...
And kiss mine, too, hijo de puta.
Pseudoanonymity is the only thing saving your ass, coward.
Care to pierce the veil?
You guess wrong, Pendejo!
San Antonio Texas enjoys a higher quality of life and lower cost of living than any other city its size in the United States.
My lack of that knowledge is only matched by your being an obnoxious gilder.
Pendejo!
Tex-Mex and Old-Mex are more different than they are similar (unlike the Ds and Rs, who are more similar than they are different).
The best Tex-Mex food IN THE WORLD is served in San Antonio, and there is no debate about that. The best Old-Mex food IN THE WORLD is served far south of the Rio Grande, and there is no debate about that either.
Tonto. Tex Mex is an abomination that can hardly be called food. At any rate this is no place to discuss the relative demerits of San Antonio.
You threw it, you chew it, vato.
And FWIW, there are millions of people worldwide who consider Tex-Mex - I mean real Tex-Mex - to be the tastiest and most satisfying food in the world.
Google it, Gavacho...
The next time you want to start a name-calling fest, remember many people speak, read, and write more than one language. You are touchy about Texas, but I understand that, I've been there.
I can google McDonald's as the most popular hamburger in the world. That doesn't make it good.
You arrogantly ignorant little prick,
You cluelessly put down a state, a city, a culture and even a cuisine - as if you had a right to judge any of them - and then you accuse ME of starting a name-calling fest?!?
Again... pseudoanonymity is the ONLY thing saving your ass, you smug little coward. Care to pierce that veil, or just wanna wait til we do?
Not everyone who disagrees with you is a right-winger. Rather many of your critiquers care more about this struggle than getting dems elected You believe either they are one in the same thing, or the former is not more important than the latter, don't you? This is a protest site. Allen articulated that point very well on another thread. To bring your get out the vote partisan politics on this site, which is often dressed up in an "ISSUE'S" dress is bullshit.
I think the right wingers who come to this site just come for fun. I don't think they are paid or part of some kind of government program. There are far more important targets for them. This site has like 20 regular users. Come on. It's already been destroyed from the inside. Bad moderation, OWS accepting the posts of conspiracy theorists and people who want to campaign for a certain party, etc... What is destroying us is the fact that we spend all day protesting against the current government (Obama), then half the people on this site spend their day posting free adverts for the current government (Obama). We are completely illogical.
A good laugh is always worth trading insults and generally behaving like a boor.
Part of anarchy is learning to accept many different points of view and approaches to problems, which explains why some anarchists tolerate and even encourage black bloc tactics. The anonymous, sometimes destructive approach garners more headlines and awareness than thousands of protestors chanting, "We shall overcome..."
Actually, black bloc tactics were born from anarchists. Those who use these tactics are mostly anarchists. They don't have to tolerate these tactics. And, in fact, they don't tolerate them, but actively promote them.
The OWS Disobedience School promotes the use of black bloc tactics.
And, OWS used the news part of this site to call for the use of black bloc tactics in one protest (Solidarity Sunday - Wear Black Fight Back). I wrote a piece about it 4 months ago: http://occupywallst.org/forum/learning-from-a-canadian-or-ows-marketing-follies/
So, black bloc tactics are actively being promoted by anarchists, they are not being tolerated by them.
I did say "tolerate and even encourage."
The bloc tactics are designed to allow protestors, especially those bent on property destruction or violence, anonymity. Anti-government groups, whether anarchist or of some poltical belief, often belief banner waving, demonstrations, and protests do not deliver a strong-enough message.
Except for the part about, "spend all day protesting," you have that right. Most of these dudes wouldn't get caught dead out in the streets, or even supporting those that are out there, 'cepting of course for an occasional rah, rah, rah!
True. Most users on this forum have never been to a GA nor a protest.
I don't think that I would have the patience to sit through a GA, but i admire those who can. There was a really neat GA assembly in Central Park that I liked a lot. i wish I had kept a log of all my trips, and protests in NYC, but i would estimate about twelve protest/marches. Many people here, I do understand cannot for one reason or the other take part in these activities, but this should be a place of coordination and support for those that can. Instead, it has devolved further, and further into election central, and now it has the ISSUE DRESS which is code for get out, and vote dem. They just don't seem to understand that this hurts this movement far more than it helps.
Ya, they don't understand. Too many uneducated people perhaps, or just too lazy. The people here don't read with an open mind. They feel the need to tag someone first. If they consider you a troll, then whatever you say is deemed wrong and against the movement. If they like you, then everything you say is met with a high five. It's like a cult in many ways. OWS is stuck because it isn't open to criticism from the outside nor the inside. It's really sad.
Yes it is sad. I do think though that many of the people here promoting partisan politics do so, because they are unable to look at the bigger picture. They are set in their ways, but their intentions are not necessarily bad. The irony is that those who purport to be the voice of this movement are not. Their views fly in the face of the people at the heart of this struggle, and the ones who are truly making the real sacrifices. I'm off to NYC now to get rejuvenated by those truly dedicated people at Summer Disobedience Class. I can't help but laugh at the title of this. See you
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Of course.
I agree, to a large extent. There are a few good true OWS people here though, who really care about the success of this movement.
"A-political" is gibberish, Old Man Dan the GeriTroll:
"Apolitical" has a meaning, but not one that you understand.
Stop polluting this forum, and go take your meds.
IronButt? or trashy troll? So hard to tell apart the BS PR POS from the regular dead horse beating forum troll. Both are hemorrhoids on the sphincter of the world.
Old Dan the GeriTroll Man,
You serve no purpose here, pendejo. Go take your meds and watch Lawrence Welk.
IronButt who is we? You and your sock puppets or are you demon possessed?
[-] 0 points by PiedrasNegras (-8) 7 minutes ago
You arrogantly ignorant little prick,
You cluelessly put down a state, a city, a culture and even a cuisine - as if you had a right to judge any of them - and then you accuse ME of starting a name-calling fest?!?
Again... pseudoanonymity is the ONLY thing saving your ass, you smug little coward. Care to pierce that veil, or just wanna wait til we do? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Ironbutt who? What we?
Take your meds and go back to bed, GeriTroll. Then the Boogeymen won't get you...
apolitical - definition of apolitical by the Free Online Dictionary ... www.thefreedictionary.com/apolitical a·po·lit·i·cal ( p -l t -k l). adj.
No I would say that covers it fairly well. The greedy corrupt criminals only care about politics as a tool. They care not for democratic, republican, independent, state, federal, domestic or foreign.
Nope all they care about is controlling it - whatever it is.
Old Dan the GeriTroll Man = Tits on a bull.
DK this is the exact kind of conspiracy theory that will get you banned..............Ha,...NOT. When you run this forum and call the Mod shots you have a lifetime membership without any worries.
Are there any other changes you'd like to make to the forum that maybe we all should know about? Please give us a heads up the next time you want to revamp everything okay?
There you go - you have nothing - And so you take your usual shot at trying to discredit. If this were my forum do you think I would put up with lame assed attackers such as you?