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Forum Post: The land of the free?

Posted 2 years ago on April 18, 2012, 8:33 p.m. EST by toukarin (488)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Really? A country where cops are allowed to take kids away from schools in handcuffs?

Saw a report of a 6 year old being taken away with hands cuffed behind her back for 'disruptive behavior.' No mention was made of her having a weapon of any kind or of having her 'assault' specifically directed towards any living thing.

Personally I would like to see how much damage a 6 year old could possibly inflict and why, instead of calling the cops... the teacher did not call the child's parents and simply have her removed from the class and sent home...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/17/justice/georgia-student-handcuffed/

96 Comments

96 Comments


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[-] 6 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Did you even read the article you linked to? The school called the police and reported an assault. The girl was crying on the floor, things in the office were damaged. According to the report, when the officer tried to calm the child down she began fighting with him.

The police couldn't get hold of the parents, and finally released the child to an aunt. The article doesn't say if the school tried initially and also failed to reach the parents.

The parents managed to find their way to a reporter and asked the reporter about school policy regarding misbehavior. That question should have been directed at the school. Most schools these days send a book home at the beginning of every school year outlining their policies.

[-] 2 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

Reporting a 6 year old for assault? Makes perfect sense... she might kill someone or break their limbs right?

Police should not have been involved. Any adult onsite could have just as easily restrained her while relatives were contacted and she could be released into their custody.

I find it sick that the school felt it necessary to call in the police to deal with a tantrum from a 6 year old. With or without any history of mental illness.

[-] 2 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

In fact teachers get assaulted all the time by children as young as this one. I had a roommate once who was a teacher of very young children. She was sent to the hospital for being pushed down the stairs by one of them. She often had bruises and bites from being attacked by children , punched, kicked and bitten enough to draw blood. (And she was utterly devoted to these kids nonetheless, always ascribing their behavior to bad home lives and poverty).

I have no idea what happened to this child or if what was done was appropriate or not. It sounds like there should have been different alternatives.

But it seems to me to be one of those stories that is just more diversionary MSM bullshit, designed to stir outrage, and shed more heat than light.

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

I agree the police in most cases like this should not have been called, but they were, they can't exactly ignore the call. Once there, they follow whatever their procedures are for restraining people. That wasn't what actually happened first though. It states that the officer there tried to calm the girl down. The article didn't mention any charges just that the authorities couldn't reach the parents. We don't know if the child was 2'6" tall, 50 lbs, or 4'6", 150 lbs. Since the cuffs fit the child may very well have been on the large side of the growth curve.

The school may have a history of bad relations with this family causing them to take a perhaps cowardly way out to the whole mess. Schools all across the country publish discipline handbooks and hand them out every year. If calling the police is the procedure, the time to take issue with it is when you read the handbook.

The story is a poor example of a rising police state. I think the most ardent anarchist would expect the police to come and assist if he called them.

[-] 3 points by gforz (-43) 2 years ago

This has nothing to do with a rising police state, but rather nervous school districts afraid of being sued and doing CYA. A by-product of our "it's never MY child's fault" society with coddled children and insane parents. Common sense doesn't even enter the picture in these situations. Details don't matter. Procedure matters. Speed of reaction to a potential issue (whether or not you could really call it an "issue", such as the story above). It is merely the school district responding quickly so they can absolve themselves from blame and not be accused of NOT doing anything (you can just hear an attorney in deposition asking the school administrator why he/she DIDN'T call the police before the little beast threw a pencil and put someone's eye out).

[-] 1 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

Exactly! My point in my first response is that this particular incident has nothing to do with a police state. It is simply a school reacting to a situation. I agree with your assessment there too.

[-] 1 points by gforz (-43) 2 years ago

It pisses me off to no end. I got a call from my son's 6th grade administrator saying he had received a call from an anonymous lady after school saying my son and another boy may have been "bullying" a girl. No questions asked, nothing. Once all three kids were talked to, turns out they were playing chase. The girl hadn't complained, just some lady on the street seeing kids chasing each other. Another kid in the school got accused of raping a girl at a friends house the previous week. This came to light by an administrator standing outside the school overhearing some girls asking this kid why he "raped" their friend. The administrator called the cops, the cops showed up and hauled this kid away in handcuffs. They kept him in juvenile for 2 days, all the while rumors were flying all around the neighborhood. After the detective fleshed it all out, turns out the girl made up the entire story to make an old boyfriend jealous. She hadn't made a complain to either the school or the police, none of the parents involved were called, no discussion took place, nothing. Just accusations and handcuffs, and a ruined reputation (now the girl's as well)

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

We all seem to live in a constant state of fear. We've made laws, regulations, and procedures based on a single case rather then careful study of the entire situation. I don't know where to go with it.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

We're already in a police state. It just gets worse with each incident that is blown out of proportion.

[-] 0 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

People always seem willing to trade little bits of freedom for some promise of security. If we're in a police state it's one we've willingly, if stupidly, constructed for ourselves.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

You got that one right man!

[-] 2 points by 4TheHumanSocietyProject (504) 2 years ago

This world has yet to see freedom.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

On the other hand I was in a doctor's office/waiting room this week and a little boy (probably 4-5) was throwing toys and also a fit and fighting his mother who was basically letting him get away with it. Where are they headed? I don't know but we need to stay out of range.

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

If your child has sever behavior problems in Georgia. 1. Take it to mental health and get it diagnosed. 2.Call the special ed department. Tell them your child's problems and diagnoses. 3. Demand an IEP. They will talk to teacher and test your child. Ask about placement in a psycho ed center instead of suspension. Teachers in the psycho ed centers are trained to deal with tantrums. Psycho ed centers do not call the police on children younger than 12 generally. My own daughter was arrested at age 11 almost 12 for terroristic acts and threats on the school bus. (The bus driver told my special kid she'd have to do something really bad for me to be called to get her, she said she'd stab everybody!)The juvenile judge told her he would hold it for one year and if he didn't she her back, it would go away for good. She learned freedom of speech does not extend to death threats. The psycho ed centers try to keep kids in school and learning and do not suspend students as much at all. If the parents will take the kid to the doctor, and contact the special ed department, they can get the kid out of that suspension and back into a classroom.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

mot parents are to embarrassed or too proud to get one of those test done. The only reason i know this is my sister in special needs and the hardest part of the job is telling the parents that there kid isn't perfect.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Especially when they've stopped answering their phone! I had issues in school but I managed to get threw them. But I had the kind of parents who didn't want to allow any testing. I had been in a bad car wreck with no seatbelt, they were afraid something might show up. In high school I forged their name and took part in the testing to see what was up. After she told me the results, I had to tell her she had to bury them. The special ed teacher wanted to kill me for forging the papers. I had thing about only wanting to step on certain tiles while I walked, she helped me with that during her lunch. She said special needs kids deserved to be in the least restrictive environment possible, and I certainly was. She told me my issues were not from a car wreck, I probably shouldn't marry the boy I was engaged to, and not to have children if I did. Then there I was years later, married to that man and hauling my child in to her husband for special ed testing...UG talk about HARD!

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

yeah i could see that being hard

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

It took awhile, but I'm glad I married who I did. I love the kids I have. My other child is gifted and in mainstream school. My autistic daughter faces challenges but can lead a fulfilling life. She's not perfectly normal, or gifted but she's going to be ok. When I fist found out there was problem, I grieved like I had lost her. Then a distant relatives' perfectly normal child got cancer and died suddenly. I stopped envying the parents of normal kids because anything can happen to anyone anytime. My autistic daughter is alive, happy, and healthy and that's its own blessing. Parents of special needs go threw a lot but avoiding the issue doesn't serve the kids very well.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

good for you i put so much respect into parents who love there kids.

[-] 2 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

they did try to call the parents. but i agree.. this is beyond the pale. those cops should be charged with child molestation and put in jail.

[-] 2 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

Also... kid gets handcuffed for breaking a few things and possibly bruising a couple of people... but grown men are allowed to essentially walk away after shooting unarmed strangers? Quite a paradox.

[-] 1 points by MsStacy (1035) 2 years ago

More a non sequitur I think then a paradox comparisons and conclusions from one just don't follow from the other. Different States, cops, situations. Cops arrive and see damage and the child acts out when they try to calm her. Witnesses claim she damaged property and hit the principal. She's taken away and later released to her relative. No mention of charges.

Zimmerman, if that's the case you're referring to, offered no resistance to the police and there were no witnesses. He was questioned and released. The death was investigated further, even before it became big news, and he was eventually charged and held in custody (bail hearing April 20).

If anything you're likely to find that police in both cases followed whatever their local procedures were.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

hopefully,, these parent will sue the school district and the police. i hope the aclu gets involved.

[-] 1 points by MichaelB (128) 2 years ago

That's probably why the school called in the police in the first place rather then deal with the problem themselves. They were giving themselves legal cover from the parents when the kid decided to throw a tantrum. The police got there and independently documented more bad behavior and enough property damage to lessen the possibility of a successful lawsuit.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Depends on whether or not this was the child's first and only tantrum. If a child has sever tantrums they go to a doctor and get diagnosed with a mental condition. The parents' consent to special ed testing and placement. The child is sent to a specialized school with a more highly trained staff. Once the child is stable enough to attend classes without disrupting them, it is sent back to mainstream school. When you have parents who are in denial about the mental health of their child, this kind of thing can happen. Georgia has psycho ed centers in every region that can handle any kind of six year old. Getting the kid diagnosed and calling special ed will get this kid back in a classroom way before this suspension ends. If the child does well for a bit with no new tantrums, it can go back to regular school. Calling the police is usually only done after other interventions have failed and failed badly.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

sorry but i dont care what a 30 lb 2 ft human at 6 yrs of age does, it is beyond belief that any sane adult would handcuff them. what the hell is the world coming to when a 6 yr old causes that much fear in adults? what kind of adults are we allowing to be around our kids. how did such individuals without coping skills get into the school or police system? people that cant handle a kid during a tantrum should not be allowed to be near them. teachers are suppose to be able to take care of children , any children especially kindergarteners. and what type of big bad cop is so inept that their only recourse is handcuffs for a 30 lb 2 ft child? ridiculous.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Seriously if your kid acts like that, its place is not in a mainstream school. We have resources here in the state of Georgia for all kinds of special needs kids. We have mental health centers for children that work on a sliding fee scale if you are uninsured. We have state insurance for low income families. The resources we have besides the police and juvenile courts are MANY! In this state if you have a special needs child they get an IEP and have rights to an education and to not be suspended for extended periods. The parents of the child need to get it treatment and an IEP get it back in class.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 2 years ago

i understand all that, but an adult being unable to control a small child screams something is wrong with the adults. and for them to go to this extreme show their incompetence as child workers. and the police incompetence as officers of the law.

[-] 2 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

The teachers can't do anything for fear of being fired, sued, arrested and whatever else can be done. The teachers hands have been tied and their options are very limited these days.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Handcuffs aren't proper restraints. I am the parent of an autistic daughter. I wouldn't let her go to school until I knew the staff was trained in how to properly restrain her and owned a straight jacket and knew how to use it! Luckily she never needed it. They said she was being careful not to actually hurt herself. I didn't own a straight jacket, I had to hold her to keep her from running her head into the wall. I've had busted noses, black eyes etc from trying to keep her from hurting herself in her tantrums. Now I think the principle could have called on councilors, the special ed department, or local mental health rather than calling the police. However, if he called mental health, the child would likely have been committed for a week stay and observation. If the parents couldn't be found and no one would sign her in, them you'd have to call family and children's services and have them take custody of the child so it could receive mental health care. That my friend would leave you wishing the child was just arrested. I have no idea if this guy was just trying to avoid getting family and children's services involved, or being a royal dick.

[-] 0 points by ChemLady (576) 2 years ago

You are a good parent though. When your child's school sends home it's discipline manual each year, you probably read it. The article states that the parents couldn't be reached by the police after multiple attempts. The parent's first move was to go to reporters, not to the school or police to find out what had happened, but to comment on how their daughter had been a victim.

As for the school's reaction, we don't know if the girl has any medical or emotional problems. The parent's dash to the media makes me think the school had experience with them before and took the safe route and called the police and passing the buck.

[-] 1 points by ClearTarget (216) 2 years ago

Free to become a footstool for authorities and the 1%ers... unless we fight back of course.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

What? The Land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy! - Rage

[-] 1 points by darrenlobo (204) 2 years ago

The land of papers please & liberty's grave.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by bobgnote (-55) 2 years ago

No matter what actually happened in this case, the US is the land of the scam and the home of the fee, no doubt. As for cops and courts, they conspire against USCA 1,4,5,14, and Congress conspiires to violate the separation clause, standing army clause, royal favors exclusion clause, RICO, and the Sedition Act, for starters. The USDOJ does what it wants, which lets cops and courts do what they want, AND THEY SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT TO. So you cannot believe every last word, in just about any police report or newspaper or tv story. Cops and mainstream media profiteer.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 2 years ago

I'll let you know i like the police i think they do a good job 80% of the time.When i read this i mad i read the report and it sounds like the teachers overreacted and made everyone freak out. My sister deals with special needs kids everyday and she says that when there six they hit even if they dont have any mental problems they still hit.

predictions. Police will say sorry teacher will say sorry life will go on

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Land of the free is the land of police state.

The only thing we are #1 in is our ability to shallow our own shit.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

Sad... but apparently true...

Then again... there is always North Korea... if that is any comfort... LoL...

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

This video was always good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8znhEhxl3s

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 2 years ago

Totally a threat to national security and the general public there. Or maybe the just did not like the dance? Perhaps they were expecting something more...

[-] -2 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

This is only a police state because no one wants to do anything on their own. Have an argument with the neighbor, call the police. Have a disruptive kid at school, call the police. The people (including OWS) want the government to provide, so they will and when you give up more and more liberty for your "social justice" and whatever pet cause you have, sit back, shut up and let Uncle Sam rock you to sleep. The liberal/progressive dream can only end in a police state as there is no other force to enact all of their dreams but the government which must rule through force and violence.

[-] -1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

I love the way you frame that. But here, try this one. I have been run ragged and put away wet by conservative policing. As a progressive, I'd like to pass on to my more affluent brothers the policing their property hording asses have been bestowing on me. It is a bitch having state cops police my every behavior because some punk ass conservative feels I might steal his property. So as a equal opportunity provider, I want to pass laws that will be as burdensome to them as their laws have been to me. They send the state boys around my neighborhood to make sure I play by the rules so I will vote in such a way that will reciprocate the love they showed me. They use state police to secure their property so I will use Federal regulation to police their dealings. Seems fair to me. What says you?

[-] 0 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

WTF are you even talking about?

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

If you don't understand what I just said, then you are one of those idiots who should not be allowed to vote. Simple, Conservatives have been making this a police state for the last thirty years. So I believe it is only fair that the working poor show them how it feels to have a cop, Federal regulator, breathing down their necks. They take my civil liberties away from me, so I will take away their economic liberties from them. Quad pro qou, baby.

[-] 0 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

I didn't understand what you said because you cannot string together a coherent thought. As for the "working poor" being over regulated, you obviously have never been in charge of anything other than your own talk box. So, you think you are in a police state because of conservative policies? Are you really that delusional? So you think that the liberals, who want to tax any and everything you do for your own good somehow protect your liberties? Your last line shows how childish and immature you really are. Maybe you need to get out more and see the world and realize that you actually have it pretty good while you sit at home typing away on the internet all the while bitching about the police state we are in. Irony, thy name is JesseHeffran.

[-] 0 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

Sure, i'll go see the world when I can afford it. Peace, I'm through with you. see the world," that is rich, no pun intended.

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Children are never to blame. Their behavior is simply a function of the adults and the environment around them. Shame on the school. Shame on the police officers. Shame on the parents. Shame on Georgia.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Many parents of children with mental health issues are ashamed to get them diagnosed and treated. I was afraid my family would treat my autistic daughter differently if they knew. I didn't take her to the the doctor until she was six and I had to enroll her in school. I had to seek help from the special ed department and secure special placement for her with a staff who could deal with her properly so that no one got hurt. I am from Georgia. Usually the only older kids who get arrested here are the ones who are 12 and up and insist on attacking the teachers and other students on a regular basis. One boy tried to hit my daughter but she dodged and he broke his hand on the wall. He wasn't suspended for it or arrested, they thought he kinda had a broken already. Another student bashed her in the head with his fist, he was arrested. That one, he punches people a lot, serious anger issues. Believe it or not Georgia has regional psycho ed centers that can deal with just about anything. Some parents are asked to let their children be tested and placed and they refuse. To me the length of the suspension is most telling, this probably was not this child's first tantrum. When the school says, "I'm not even going to look at you till next year!" its bad. Children with special needs are generally never pushed out of class for that length of time. The other alternative to the police is to have the child committed to a psychiatric facility. They generally can hold the child for up to a week. Its usually more traumatic for the kids to be committed like that for observation. If the parents won't co-operate and allow the child to have any kind of help and the child might harm itself, they are supposed to report it to family and children's services.

[-] -3 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Thanks for sharing, JadedGem. You sure know more about special ed kids than I do. And, I can totally understand parents who try to delay facing the reality that their child has a big problem. It takes time to wrap one's head around something like that. But, still there's no excuse for how they treated this child. And, how about all the other kids that may have witnessed the arrest? You never "arrest" a 6 year old. For goodness sake, how far have we lost our way?

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

The principle is a serious idiot. He was probably trying to force the parents into getting help for their child. He could of called on school councilors, the special ed department, mental health. To me he comes off looking like some authoritarian dick. My other daughter was depressed and talking about suicide, the councilor sent to her mental health, and she was sobbing when her doctor came in so she got the trip to the mental hospital two hours away. I seriously don't get why he called the police to make a point instead of using all the other resources available to him.

[-] 0 points by MichaelB (128) 2 years ago

It starts to get funny when these news stories have gaps in the information. We tend to fill in those gaps with whatever story agrees with our personal bias.

[-] -3 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Yup. No excuse.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

What gets me is we have all these resources for special needs kids, mental health, low cost insurance. The schools have councilors, occupational therapist, speech therapist, psycho ed centers, specially trained special ed teachers. Procedure was not followed in this case. The procedure in the state of GA when a child might cause themselves bodily harm is to have committed to a psychiatric facility. If the parents will not sign the papers, then you must call Family and Children's services and they must take custody of the child and get it help. This is way more traumatic, but the unavailable parents would have lost temporary custody of the child and it would have been held and observed for up to a week in a mental facility.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Further more here the police are used to transport a child to a mental healthcare facility if it is for their own safety and treatment and it is a mandatory commitment. I'm unsure why the police didn't take the child straight to mental health. They go there to pick up kids and transport them to mental hospitals all the time. Its kinda mandated by our laws, they have codes for these runs to hospitals. The local police are the ones who drove my child to the hospital. So nobody there followed our procedures for this kid.

[-] 1 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

Many school districts do not have nearly the resources needed for kids with special needs. My son has been to three schools in two and a half years in the same district and will be going to yet another school (school number 2 before) because there are not enough resources to spread them to all schools in the district, so they will all be focused in to one school again. Then there is the lack of training when it comes to dealing with disruptive kids. The teachers and schools are not meant to raise our kids, but many parents feel that they should and you get what we have here...which is the way they want it. Well, they get it.

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Yes, when my daughter was able to be placed in a regular behavior class, all them seemed to bused to one school for special ed. The psycho ed center serves several counties and kids have to be bused to it. As far as for training with autism in particular, that is lacking in our area when it comes to special counseling. Our occupational and speech therapists are spread a little thin. But the school systems I've encountered have all been trying to do the best they can. They will work with you, ask questions, value your input, redesign an IEP, develop specialized plans and strategies. All the school really needs is for parents to agree to testing and placement and show up and be making an effort. But some parents won't agree to testing, won't take their kids to see a doctor, don't want anybody to lay a finger on their baby no matter what, never show up to meetings, don't answer their phone (the school begins to think this is on purpose after awhile).

[-] 2 points by TheMisfit (48) 2 years ago

I agree. My wife had become a bit of a thorn to our school district as she has been fighting the good fight for better autism awareness and training. More than a couple teachers and a principle were quite butt hurt when they were called out.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Once the director of metal health made back down to my daughter over buying her food after the visit to stop tantruming and be good. I was told I had to make her quiet or leave, I was not allowed to stand my ground with my kid. The councilor's jaw dropped that the director pulled that! I've been kicked out of doctors and dentist offices etc on and on. Luckily the school finally had a dentist come by she doesn't a single cavity, but still! She argued with her sister's dentist and what he was gonna do to her sister and he refused to take her on. Odd thing is our kids aren't mean and spiteful or dishonest and sneaky but people act as if they are worst thing they've ever seen.

[-] -1 points by MichaelB (128) 2 years ago

No blame was attached to the kid, she was just removed and handed over to a relative when the parents couldn't be found. The police were probably not too thrilled being dragged into it in the first place, but they don't get to decide who to respond to.

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

So you think handcuffing a 6 year old is okay? Wow.

[-] -1 points by MichaelB (128) 2 years ago

At what age, height, weight do you draw this arbitrary line and say it's ok to restrain? A charge was made and the whole mess had been dumped into the lap of the police department. They had to transport an out of control child, doesn't even matter now who started the whole thing or who's at fault.

There is a police procedure for transporting. You want them to violate it and risk the child maybe making a dash from a moving car or grabbing at the driver causing harm because she wasn't restrained? What alternative do you offer? Two officers with her in the back seat holding her firmly? Some kind of straight jacket? Would you advocate allowing an upset child with self control issues simply be escorted out of the school and allowed to sit in the patrol car and risk something happening?

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Wow. Your response really disturbs me.

[-] 1 points by MichaelB (128) 2 years ago

Sorry I didn't mean to, but you offer no alternative to the spot the police were placed in. The kid has been throwing things around the principal's office, jumping on office machines, breaking shelves. The police try to calm her and she starts hitting them. It's not enough to say well she's six you shouldn't handcuff her. She appeared out of control.

Nothing in the article suggests the cops acted improperly, but they have their procedures and have to follow them. Those procedures evolved from incidents where something did go wrong. I don't see anyone ignoring them without risking being disciplined, sued, or both.

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

None of these people were trained properly to deal with children. You wait. You wait as long as it takes for that child to calm down. You wait and you wait and you wait.

[-] 1 points by MichaelB (128) 2 years ago

Sounds ok on the surface, I'd like to know what experts say, or if they can even agree on an approach. Never having had anyone tolerate that kind of behavior in me gives me a prejudice against letting a child over 1 or 2 throw a tantrum until their exhausted. If she hasn't been taught tantrums don't work by to get her own way by 6 then it's time to look for deeper problems. Personally I don't see letting a 6 year old take control for however many hours she feels the need to throw around things as a viable solution in a school with of hundreds of children.

It's certainly not reasonable to tie up a police officer for hours, there should be real crime somewhere to deal with, but then I didn't think it should have been a police matter to begin with. Once brought in though you're at a whole new level. If the child has emotional problems then she obviously needs a different school, one set up to address them. If this is "normal" behavior for her then the parents need to face the fact they have a problem.

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Look, you never handcuff a 6 year old, no matter what. To me it sounds like there was no one available to this child who could handle the situation and all the adults, including the parents, and most especially the principal, are to blame for that.

[-] 1 points by MichaelB (128) 2 years ago

We can agree at least that the principal overreacted, or was too worried about covering himself, by calling the police. I see them as stuck with their procedures that don't make any allowance for age. If you are going to take a child prone to tantrums somewhere then you've probably got to make sure they are secure somehow. Like it or not handcuffs are all they have. Difficult for me to say at what age kids are too dangerous to themselves or others and need to be restrained.

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Most likely this child shouldn't have been in this situation in the first place. It's a big fail all around by all of the adults.

[-] 1 points by MichaelB (128) 2 years ago

I could certainly agree there. Education has to be a partnership, parents and school have to work together, not point fingers and run to lawyers or the police when something goes wrong at school.

Maybe this will get the policies reviewed. Better still if there is some underlying emotional problem with the child maybe it will lead to some real help for her. We can argue all day about handcuffs at 6 years old, but 6 is absolutely too old to be throwing the kind of tantrum described in the article.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Hi BW. I hate to disagree with you as I like a lot of what you contribute. But anyone who is out of control needs to be restrained for their safety as well as the safety of those around them. Perhaps the principal should have called medical services along with the police but the police were necessary I believe because of a litigious society where authority is always presumed wrong. Perhaps cops should have soft restraints for situations such as these. But out of control is dangerous no matter the age.

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

You guys are all nuts!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Sorry. But what would you do with a child that goes off on you, in a room full of other children and who knows what kind of furnishings at hand?

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Lots of things, but certainly not call the police expecting them to handcuff the child. Restrain? Yes. Handcuff? Never! I'm talking about the handcuffs, here. This child is 6 years old. If they could get handcuffs on the child, they could restrain the child in another way. Wait it out in a quiet room. Yes, you might have to do some overtime. And, make a plan so that this child is in a better circumstance and appropriate place in the future.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

{:-])


[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (5766) 0 minutes ago

Me too! ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I understand completely. The only thing that can possibly convince you is a personal experience. I hope you never have one as they are quite upsetting to say the least.


[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (5766) 3 minutes ago

Honestly, I appreciate your valiant effort at trying to get me to agree to this, but I'm stubborn and I'm just never going to agree that a 6 year old should ever be handcuffed. Handcuffed! As in, like arrested! ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Me too!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You would really think so. But like I say hysterical strength is awesome and very frightening. It is like people who have smoked angel dust and then been handcuffed and they break the handcuffs then they get a couple sets of handcuffs and they break their own arms while they break the handcuffs. It is like a flood gate gets opened and all of their physical energy is able to be called on all at once - this is like what happens to an individual who loses it while sober - the hysterical strength is unreal. My sister had a friend a young mother in her twenties and she had a developmentally troubled child, she was a single mom and she got beat up quite a bit before she was able to get help. This was also a very young child.


[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (5766) 0 minutes ago

Sorry for your experience, but you were a child yourself. An adult can restrain a 6 year old. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Honestly, I appreciate your valiant effort at trying to get me to agree to this, but I'm stubborn and I'm just never going to agree that a 6 year old should ever be handcuffed. Handcuffed! As in, like arrested!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I love ya BW but sometimes there really is no choice. You have a wonderful heart as I wish everyone had. But for one small example of a minor experience of mine.

It was back in grade school and at about this same age. There was this pretty little and very skinny girl in my class. She was about my height, but anyway someone had told her that I did not like her ( a lie ) so she tried to beat me up one morning on my way into school. Nothing much happened as I don't fight girls and as I tried to straighten out the miss-understanding she tossed me around pretty good - and I mean I left the ground a couple of times. That was not even hysterical strength just plain and simple anger.


[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (5766) 1 minute ago

Geez, maybe your nephew will play for the Lakers. We just disagree. I don't think there is any circumstance under which a 6 year old should be placed in handcuffs. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

LOL .. hell hath no fury :-]

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Sorry for your experience, but you were a child yourself. An adult can restrain a 6 year old.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

What kind of restraint would you suggest? As I am not keen on handcuffs either. But to restrain is a physical intervention and those involved can and will get injured. Again it goes back to our society and the fear of those in charge of getting sued or fired or both.

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

The child was 6 years old. 6 years old is very little. I do think a burly police officer, or even a not so burly police officer, could handle that without the handcuffs. And, that would be scary enough.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

yeah thats it .. give the poor child some milk and cookies .. [ spoiled as it is ] and perhaps ask the child what we should do ?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

LOL was really kind of funny. I think that was it too. I think she had a crush and someone was jealous of me being liked by her instead of them ...........so.


[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverB (1303) 1 minute ago

LOL .. hell hath no fury :-] ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

You assume the child who misbehaves is spoiled. Interesting.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (22310) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

BW have you ever experienced an individual who is violently out of control? I have it is not a pretty sight. Ever hear of hysterical strength - it is awesome and scary. As for size of the child? My nephew was 5' tall at six years and over 90 lbs. Many children are large today at young ages due to what is in our food - hormones steroids etc. to fatten up and accelerate the growth of our livestock. Handcuffs are a poor choice of restraint for this kind of intervention but if it is all you have what are you gonna do? Holding the child you are looking at the possibility of taking a beating by head butting biting scratching gouging punching kicking etc. not to mention being more likely to injure the child by trying to get them under control in a struggle.


[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (5766) 0 minutes ago

The child was 6 years old. 6 years old is very little. I do think a burly police officer, or even a not so burly police officer, could handle that without the handcuffs. And, that would be scary enough. ↥like ↧dislike permalink

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Geez, maybe your nephew will play for the Lakers. We just disagree. I don't think there is any circumstance under which a 6 year old should be placed in handcuffs.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

BW, listen.. what the police officer did was with all due respect honorable. The child was out of control and in need of serios discipline. We should all be thanking the officer , and hope the child has learned a valuable lesson from all this. Behaviour has to be taught. I am surprised though the principal did not have the skills to deal with this.. ? probably was covering his own and not wanting to be liable in anyway .. can't really blame him neither.. Things just aint the same when we were growing up .. Children have gotten way out of hand.. It's absolutely terrible to see this kind of behaviour...

I am sure the child will behave a little more appropriately..

Thank you, Mr. Police Officer.

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

NO! You never handcuff a 6 year old child.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Well , ..obviously they do .. lol

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

No. Never. No excuses.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

no harm done , if anything this will be good for the child .. discipline is always good..

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

No. Lots of harm done. Unnecessary harm.

I'm done here. We just disagree.

[-] 0 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Do you have a degree in child psychology.. or child behaviour.. where do you base your experience with this ? I mean , look at the situation .. was the officer supposed to drag the kid out of their while it kicks and struggles to break free .. holding the childs arms behind its back .. Seriously , that would have been a lot worse.. IMHO ..

It's not like he pulled his hand gun out and shot the kid .. ! geezuz

Personally , the officer should go straight to the mother and handcuff her too !! because that sounds like the bigger problem in this whole mess !! lol

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22225) 2 years ago

Have you been around a 6 year old child in your life? Do you know how little that is? The child should not be permanently scarred because the adults in his/her life are a bunch of morons.