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Forum Post: The heart of the problem with the government, corporations and the people.

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 23, 2012, 5:01 p.m. EST by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The Heart of the problem is:

The government has forgotten that they are employees. Whose employees? "THE PEOPLES" employees.

Corporations think that they are people, that they are part of "The People". Which people? The government of "THE PEOPLE" by "THE PEOPLE" for "THE PEOPLE". Those people. They have been wrongly accorded the rights of people ( Bernie Sanders among others is trying to rectify the mistake ). But even if they were to be considered as people, our system is set-up for one vote for one person. So government and corporations should recognize that even if a corporation was a voter they would still be a very very very small minority.

"THE PEOPLE" have forgotten that they are The Board of Directors, The Executive officers, The major Share Holders, The Boss, Top Dog of the Government of "THE PEOPLE" by "THE PEOPLE" for "THE PEOPLE". Every single person in government is "OUR" employee.

Instead for some unknown reason elected officials are accorded a celebrity status or are treated as if they were Royalty.

All of these things ( listed above ) are the heart of the problem with what is wrong with this Country and how Corporations seized power and ruined the economy.

Until "WE THE PEOPLE" recognize these facts and then take the responsibility that is ours and act on it to reclaim "OUR" government. Things are not going to get anything near better or good. We need to call our employees out on the floor and chastise them or fire them.

It does not matter who is elected to office. What matters is that they recognize who they lawfully work for. "THE PEOPLE" and no-one else. Then that they listen to us and act on ( for ) our needs.

Unite in common cause. Hate the things that are wrong in this world. Support each-other in making things right. This is where the healing will begin.

52 Comments

52 Comments


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[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Tacoma, WA 2 years ago

You are right. Alongside that is the historical grievances which must be addressed for the nation to stand on its principles.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Grievances are most certainly petition/Lobby material. Get them articulated fully get them signed get them submitted.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

corporations each have ten million votes (it's called lobbying and contributions), while people only have one. what a scam of democracy.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Therein lies the fantasy or misconception of the people having no power. If we the people stand together, we are the overwhelming majority. Corporations can throw all of the money they want, but if we band together we can still remove people from office and by weight of our voices ( one person one vote ) we can regain control of our government. The people have a mostly unused and free Lobby. It is petitioning. You want your voice to be heard? Petition! Demand the government return to work for the people.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

it's the regulators (eg., FDA, SEC, FERC) who most directly affect business, and therefore they are the ones with the most direct impact. outside washington, it's very hard to see how the lobbying of a congressman will affect these agencies. politicians under this structure are literally middlemen between corporate money and the regulators, it's a complex web.--i'm just pointing out how tough it is to get change. as to your point, political activism is good, and has been dormant since 1969. most people agree with the 99% declaration.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The A B C institutions you have listed above are our employees as well. We just need to remind them of who they work for and that we are not happy with their non-performance. It's not just congress failing to do their job.

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[-] 1 points by Lardhead2 (67) 2 years ago

Isn't congress able to overturn supreme court decisions according to the constitution?

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

yes but constitutional amendments require super-majority votes--2/3 of congress and 3/4 of states--in other words, it cannot be amended in this political climate.

[-] 1 points by ShockSMH (18) 2 years ago

Marbury v. Madison established the practice of "judicial review" which means that the supreme court can overturn acts of congress. Not the other way around. The 9 supreme court justices (in the opinion of some) are among the most powerful people in the world and this is highly controversial, but not very familiar to most Americans.

The Supreme Court of the United States is the sole arbiter and interpreter of our constitution.

Around 162 acts have been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court since (and including) Marbury v. Madison in 1789.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/pdf2002/046.pdf < -- this a listing and brief description of those acts, in their entirety.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 2 years ago

only by Constitutional Amendment......and that requires a majority of states to sign on too...not just congress.....

Once it's "Unconstitutional" it remains so until the constitution itself is changed...

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I do not know.

What did you have in mind?

There are a lot of politically savvy people on this site perhaps one of them could tell you or point you in the right direction.

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[-] -2 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Government has forgotten that they're the employees. That goes for the unions too. They hand select their bosses at the ballot box. That's exactly what they're trying to do in Wisconsin. Re-establish the idea that government works for its citizens, not just the people that happen to work there.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So what is happening in Wisconsin.

Is a good thing? Is a bad thing?

Why?

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

A bad thing. Government unions are able to subvert the normal employee/employer or even union/employer relationship via elections. They get to vote for their bosses. Once they own both sides of the table, no one is left to represent ordinary citizens. We get sold out.

Look at the outrage in Wisconsin and how it's handled. The union went straight for the ballot box. They took a shot at electing a stooge to the Surpreme Court (but lost) and went into recall mode (but mostly lost there too). Now they're trying to replace the governor. And if they do, they'll once again own their boss and can expect to be rewarded accordingly, like before reform.

Government should represent the citizens, not just its employees.

It's broken.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

There were over 1,000,000 signatures. How many union workers are in the state? How many signatures on the recall petition are of union workers? These would be good questions to forward to the media as they would be likely to pursue it. Could not the rest of the citizens of Wisconsin stand up for what they want? If they were informed that this was all a union action?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21460) 2 years ago

I really doubt that the teachers of Wisconsin, or their union, voted in Scott Walker, therefore, they don't own both sides of the table. I don't know what he's talking about.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Unions have a history of being good for workers rights. But like any organization they can also be corrupted. That is what I think he is talking about. So like government we the people who are in unions need to police our unions the same as we need to police our government.

At least that would be my take on it.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21460) 2 years ago

Yes, but he's arguing that, in this case, they elected the governor. I don't think so. I don't think unions always have who they "want" in office.

[-] 1 points by BonTon (57) 2 years ago

Nor do corporations always have who they "want" in office. The issue with public sector unions (esp. teachers unions) is their practice of flooding state and local races with cash in support of candidates who are ultimately going to be across the bargaining table if elected. Foxes, henhouses, etc., and taxpayers foot the bill. Where's OWS on this, other than parroting the usual union talking points (unions good, employers bad)?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21460) 2 years ago

I'm for getting all money out of politics including corporations, unions, non-profits and any other groups I can't think of at the moment.

[-] 1 points by BonTon (57) 2 years ago

that's nice, but getting all money out of politics is not feasible, realistic or desirable. How about starting with the obvious, inherent, conflict-of-interest situations, of which public sector union spending is among the most blatant?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21460) 2 years ago

Fine. I didn't mean all as in every red cent.

How about starting with corporations and wealthy individuals whose funding has been much more pervasive and deleterious to the American public. How about we'll start with Sheldon Adelson and his wife?

[-] 1 points by BonTon (57) 2 years ago

nice dodge!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21460) 2 years ago

Did you really think I would fall for that. Of course, you didn't. LOL!

[-] 1 points by BonTon (57) 2 years ago

Fall for what? Engaging in dialogue? No, not really. There's not much of it on this "forum." Lots of pontificating, smugness, and more pontificating. Not much dialogue.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21460) 2 years ago

That is true of both sides. And, this is our forum, after-all. You guys come on here to kick up the dirt. I don't mind debating. I enjoy it, actually, as long as ad hominem attacks are not part of it. And, see, we found an item that we can basically agree on - getting money out of politics.

[-] 0 points by shooz (17724) 2 years ago

There is a significant troll infection.

It's like a revolving door of them.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I agree and I believe that all of the people in Wisconsin will have a say in who replaces Walker.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21460) 2 years ago

Can't wait!

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[-] -2 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Yes, everyone's just really upset that government workers can't get a better deal in Wisconsin. LOL.

That's that gross number that's being claimed. We'll see what ends up being valid in the end. But what we do know is that virtually every government employee and every government retiree in the damn state would've signed it. Add family and some friends. Add liberals that haven't figured out yet that the retirement benefits are crowding out the programs they claim to care about and there you go.

The point remains. When unions can't get their way across the negotiating table, they simply replace whom they're negotiating with and the citizens' representatives get replaced with the employee's representatives. They've subverted the process. Wisconsin lays it bare for anyone dim enough not to know it already.

Funny how OWS-types hate corporate control of government but yet support union control of government. Government being run for corporations is no worse than having it run for the small cliche that happen to work there.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

maybe it's because unions are comprised of people who are simply trying to survive and not abuse the system to make obscene profits at the expense of their fellow countrymen.

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

That's really funny. Unions have rigged the system and anyone that falls out of line gets disciplined at the ballot box. Sadly, it's now the people that don't work for government, the ones paying for it, that are simply trying to survive.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

voting is how things work. unions have not crashed the economy have they? unions have not been bailed out with taxpayers money have they? unions have not lost touch with the everyday working man and woman have they? union workers do pay taxes btw.

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

No. Yes. Yes.

Unions were bailed out with taxpayer money and there's more to come. The stimulus payments to states were largely a union payoff as the money allowed the states to delay reforms.

Unions have very much lost touch. They're become tone deaf to the typical taxpayer that has a worse situation than they do. In order to preserve their own retirements untouched, the advocate policies that take more from people already dealing with economic insecurity and shrunken 401Ks.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

so voting is not how things work? and the unions have received government bailouts and lost touch with the working people? this is simply not true. sorry, but voting is how our country works and wallstreet has received much, much more bailout money than imaginable and unions are working people. what kind of reality are you living in?

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

It is how things work. But government unions are how things don't work. Elections can be hijacked. Government workers seek to self-select their bosses via the ballot box. And once that's done, no one's at the table to represent the citizens; both sides represent the union. For those not able to understand this, there's no more blatant example than Wisconsin.

Yes, they did get a bailout. That's what the stimulus did. It dumped money on the states which delayed the day of reform. It was a gift to public unions and the government class.

They have lost touch. Pensions work like this: contributions get made by the employer and sometimes the employee. But Mr. Market pays most of the bill. But when returns aren't there, that disappointment falls totally on the employer. That's what's happened and the disappointment is huge.

Private sector workers have no one to make up the disappointment. They're retirement security fell with the market. Not so for the government class. They simply say, "fuck you, pay me!". "Raise taxes". So, we have government workers insisting on not being touched driving tax increases against people whose retirements are already dramatically altered. It sure as hell is out of touch.

[-] 2 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

hardly! if the majority of the voters vote for a candidate that is not 'hijacked' that is how the process works. the financial crisis caused by the policies implemented by wallstreet with the help of washington (rep and dem) is to blame for the problems many pension holders are now facing and to say that government workers should also suffer is not logical. wallstreet should not have got the bailouts, the pensioners who lost out should have.

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

That's pure propaganda.

That may be how elections work, BUT IT'S NOT HOW OUR EMPLOYEE RELATIONSHIP SHOULD WORK. Leave elections as the are, but take away government unions. The two when combined are toxic for ordinary citizens.

Wisconsin is right to reform. The entire relationship needs to be re-worked. Wisconsin was even collecting the unions' dues for it. That's crazy.

I know the union is now out to scare any politician that dares to speak of reform. The Wisconsin people seem to get what's at stake given the earlier poor union results in the recall and Supreme Court election. So, ordinary people will hopefully turn out to take back their state. We'll see.

If it goes badly, WIsconsin will just decline and become an eventual New Jersey or Illinois. Wisconsin college grads already disproportionately leave the state. It'll only get worse and the unions can tax themselves.

Government workers are paid by non-government workers. That's what's real. They're "non-suffering" is coming at the expense of people that have suffered already. That's the ignorance and tone deafness of the government union employees. They're shameless advocates for higher taxes on people that've already been set back to preserve their own situations as untouched.

Unions shouldn't have gotten a bailout either. We've had two. Obama bullied the GM bankruptcy process to hand over to the UAW value that belonged to bondholders (an ignored group of retirees) and taxpayers. Obama also did a stimulus that handed over huge sums to the states. The states used that to pay their union employees and delayed reforms in hopes it would all just pass. Two bailouts, both going to unions.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 2 years ago

union influence is nothing in comparison to the influence that large financial institutions have in our government. unions have not caused the global financial crisis. if you wish to ignore the real problem and concentrate on unions that's your business. i'm not buying any of your diversions. you are just hardening my resolve to support ows and work against large financial interests. so keep up the good work and make ows stronger! :)

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

Unions are a real problem. Government employees in Wisconsin are attempting a coup via the recall. They desperate for a more compliant governor. They think government should exist to serve them, not the people.

Here's a secret: supporting government employee unions isn't sticking it to the Man like you libtards think, it's sticking it to your neighbor that doesn't happen to work for government. And when they fire real teachers because of crazy union benefits, stupid fuckers like you are to blame.

[-] 1 points by unimportant (716) 2 years ago

The following reserves all Constitutional rights for the individual and not groups of individuals and/or created entities.

http://www.nycga.net/groups/constitution/docs/constitutional-amendment-to-define-the-status-of-created-entities

Resolved by the CITIZENS of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and presented to the House of Representatives and the Senate of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of two-thirds of the several States within twelve [12] months after the date of its submission for ratification:

“ARTICLE—

“SECTION 1. We the people who ordain and establish the rights protected by the Constitution of the United States to be the rights of natural persons.

“SECTION 2. The words people, person, or citizen as used in this Constitution mean “natural persons” and do not include corporations, limited liability companies and other private entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state.

“SECTION 3. Such entities not identified as a “natural persons” in SECTION 2. of this Amendment, shall be prohibited from making contributions or expenditures to, for or against, any candidate for public office or to, for or against, publicly elected official or to, for or against, any legislation before the Congress, the Senate or the people.

“SECTION 4. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to limit the people’s rights of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, freedom of association and all such other rights of the people, which rights are inalienable.”.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You see if you are correct? I'm not leaning one way or the other on that. Don't you think that is all the more reason to wake up the populace to the fact that this is their government? Also to wake up government that all of the people are their employers? Then get everyone to take part because they will know that what they do make does a difference? Most do not take part because they are tired of receiving lip-service. So they do their own thing to insure their future bypassing the true road to security because they feel that they can make no difference in how government operates.

[-] -1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

People in Wisconsin did seem to get it that they were about to be hijacked by the employees during the Supreme Court election. But it's tough, union turn-out will almost certainly be near 100%. The majority will need to defend the store and decide if it's the people in charge or the employees. I guess if the union stooge wins, one could say that the people deserve it. But it doesn't change what it is and it's still something that's broken.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

See that is the thing about realization. It is never too late ( unless of coarse we are all dead due to toxic poisoning ). Once the people realize that the government works for them then it does not matter who is in office, it only matters that they ( the office holder ) follow the bosses ( The People's ) direction.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Unite in common cause. Hate the things that are wrong in this world. Support each-other in making things right. This is where the healing will begin.

The Government of "The People" by "The People" for "The People"

We are the 99%. Take part in "The Peoples" Lobby.

Take action. See samples of how below.

195,747 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 10:06am central time 01/26/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures. We picked one up at around 11:07am 01/16/2012. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Now 22,063 signatures as of 10:08am central time 01/26/2012.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/re-establish-and-maintain-separation-between-investment-banks-and-commercial-banks/ywCMKDfn

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

21,744 signatures as of 9:32am 01/24/2012

Forum Post: Petition to reinstate Glass steagall at White house website.

Posted 1 month ago on Dec. 20, 2011, 12:36 p.m. EST by demcapitalist (931) This content is user submitted and not an official statement

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/re-establish-and-maintain-separation-between-investment-banks-and-commercial-banks/ywCMKDfn

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 2 years ago

the petition is not adequate. it is too simplistic and off the mark, but has a good step in the right direction. the large money center banks need to be broken up into their constituent parts as separate companies. this includes I-bank, capital markets, insurance, lending, payment processing and trade clearing.... they should all be separate to isolate risks unique to each function.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I placed a copy of the petition link here not because it is a very good petition and there are better sites to launch a petition from, but because it is a very good and needed step ( example ) in the right direction. Petition to reinstate Glass steagall is a very intelligent move to regain stability.

21,744 signatures as of 9:32am 01/24/2012

Forum Post: Petition to reinstate Glass steagall at White house website.

Posted 1 month ago on Dec. 20, 2011, 12:36 p.m. EST by demcapitalist (931) This content is user submitted and not an official statement

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/re-establish-and-maintain-separation-between-investment-banks-and-commercial-banks/ywCMKDfn

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

194,984 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 9:13am central time 01/24/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Unite in common cause. Hate the things that are wrong in this world. Support each-other in making things right. This is where the healing will begin.

The Government of "The People" by "The People" for "The People"

We are the 99%. Take part in "The Peoples" Lobby.

Take action. See samples of how below.

194,984 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 9:13am central time 01/24/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures. We picked one up at around 11:07am 01/16/2012. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Now 21,969 signatures as of 9:04am central time 01/25/12.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/re-establish-and-maintain-separation-between-investment-banks-and-commercial-banks/ywCMKDfn

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (35002) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Unite in common cause. Hate the things that are wrong in this world. Support each-other in making things right. This is where the healing will begin.

The Government of "The People" by "The People" for "The People"

We are the 99%. Take part in "The Peoples" Lobby.

Take action. See samples of how below.

194,285 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 9:51am central time 01/23/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures. We picked one up at around 11:07am 01/16/2012. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/