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Forum Post: [DELETED]

Posted 11 years ago on Aug. 27, 2012, 7:10 a.m. EST by anonymous ()
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59 Comments

59 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Skippy2 (485) 11 years ago

Based on the lack of participation I have witnessed in Tampa during the RNC, this movement may already have ended. Biggest protest crowd so far is 250-300! And that was just once. Hung out at Romneyville camp for a few days. Everbody sat or stood around spouting the same old crap at each other. Very little time attempting to reach people outside the group.(mental masturbation) A few kids presented themselves as Black Bloc, but even they just stood around trying to talk edgy, cool or progressive. I tried to get some Direct action going and ran into,"there's too many cops" "too many cameras". Inb4 Go Lonewolf......why should I risk prison for a movement with all noise and no heart.

[-] 2 points by Honzanin (2) from Prague, Hlavní město Praha 11 years ago

Hello guys, just wanted to say hello from Czech Republic. i see u have quite a discussion here, iam bit tired now to take part in it. Just wanted to point out that cultivated discussion is one of our best weapons, one may not know the truth, but one can lead others close to it if they listen to him, and vice versa. I know from occupyczech how difficult such discussions can be.. but we need to be able to share our minds effectively if we want to achieve anything... on local or on global scale..

So heads up and keep thinking, keep going and keep connecting :D Honzanin

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 11 years ago

When you are rested, tell us what is happening there in the Czech Republic, and how the fight against injustice is going.

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[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 11 years ago

Ignore the organization focus on a goal. OWS will grow or fade based on people's perception of it's goals. If that goal is too vague it feels like there is nothing to support.

[-] 1 points by jake303 (1) 11 years ago

convince yourselves all you want OWS is DEAD!!! Kids that get bullied in school then bring a gun have more guts to make a change than the OWS movement. A peaceful protest might have worked 50 years ago. Times have changed. As I have read people are scared to be arrested, that tells me even they have little faith in getting results from the protest, that its not worth taking a misdemeanor charge, yet you want the government and wall street to change? good luck, things need to get even worse before they get better

[-] 1 points by timirninja (263) 11 years ago

once i had chance to visit charge free festival in the middle of downtown. i get off the corridor to get some food. at the time i come back the gates were close by police. park was crowded by people who wants to see live show for free. people were leaving the park but couldn't get in. only one police barrier dived hundreds of us and two police officers. i didn't thought about public safety. my mind was at the urban Woodstock at that time. i said: "Come on, we are better then Canada!" - nobody catch the idea. So i desided to do not provoke young folks to disobey the order. seems like we can only argue with our parents our teachers with powerless people. no power to believe in ourself no passionate love nor hate nor anger didnt occupied our minds et. So we'll wait.Let the wisdom fall in the hands.

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[-] 1 points by timirninja (263) 11 years ago

im from BK. and yes you are right. no revolution were made without sacrifice. we need some smashed cars and broken glass. and also warriors who not afraid to be arrested. some lightning striking hehehe :)

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[-] 1 points by timirninja (263) 11 years ago

listen, not only warrior role. this is might sound insane, but OWS need arab money. i dont know why those people in middle east didnt fund money to OWS and to extension of american democracy. Why OWS need donations? to have well organized system with green red and black blocks. why OWS need black blocs? because somebody gotta do it. its gonna give us tremendous media coverage. Why OWS need support? to maintain special OWS young distinguished lawyers to defend black bloc and others who got into trouble(system) Why OWS need money? to pay pension year after year to such political prisoners like Bradley Manning ... this is could be WILD

[-] 0 points by Emalm (12) 11 years ago

The OWS never had a chance because everybody was too stoned to know the difference.

[-] 0 points by TheRazor (-329) 11 years ago

OWS is just a forum for disgruntled leftists and anarchists. It was never going to work in its original design. Its only chance was to create a 3rd party, collect money and create electable platforms. The original protests were a good symbol but it had to morph into boots on the ground grass roots fundraising and local canvassing. That takes work, something tea partiers understand.

Put on a shirt and tie, eschew drug use at every corner, clean cut, hard working organizational wonks building a 3rd party.

Instead its a bunch of whiny, rock throwing, pot and extacy using couch potatoes who just hope their dreams will come true.

It had a chance early on, but wasted it in fits of childishness.

[-] -2 points by stinkyows (-9) 11 years ago

The future of OWS...

Back to living in mom's basement, playing World of Warcraft. Enjoy an ass wuppin come November assholes. The village idiot Obama....the next Carter

[-] -2 points by cajunMan (-10) 11 years ago

Sadly this site is all OWS has left to cling on to.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Still talking to yourself, you sock-puppet-saddo !!!

Get a fkn life and go make up with your poor wife !!

Otherwise only a "Schizoid Embolism" awaits u !

cave et vale ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

You do pretty good with what you've got & 'SE' above, is taken from Philip K. Dick's "Total Recall", lol !!

pax et lux ...

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

It's a short story, a film & actually now a remake too apparently. "S.E." was a phrase that always stuck in (one of) my mind(s), lol !!

Here's one of the things that it it's all about here, 'Proteus' :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

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[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

LOL !!! Keep that to yourself tho' bro' !! As ECHELON ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON ) Is Always listening - apparently, lol !

Another OWS pertinent link :

fiat lux ..

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[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Northern Light ; Why Canada's 'Casserole Movement' is All of Ours", by Chris Hedges :

You "Quebeckers" have given all The 99% a lesson in Solidarity !!!

Your struggle is all our struggles !!

Onwards & Upwards 'et en avant' !

per aspera ad astra ...

[Deleted]

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Consider : The Quebec Caserole Protest Movement has not "died" !!! Though it may be nascent and dormant right now, IT Has Been Born !! Re. "like OWS", what d'you mean ?! Why are you thinking 'glass half empty' so much ?

ad iudicium ...

[Deleted]

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"The Quebec Student Protest Movement and the Power of the Radical Imagination",

by Henry A. Giroux :

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Cool ! "K.O.K.O" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-l91O9VxN0 :-)

et en avant ...

[+] -4 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

The protests died when Jean Charest called the elections. Then it became all about politics, about sovereignty, etc... It's a real shame. A real shame. It started with CLASS which was about anarchy, about protesting from outside the system.

The same thing is happening to this forum and Occupy. Our enemies are trying to make it all about politics, just like Jean Charest did. When that happens, all the anarchic energy coming from a fight from the outside, a fight in which we can all unite against the system, gets hopelessly lost in a lame struggle about the parties.

The democrat shills on this forum, shadz66, shooz, DKAtoday, VQkag2, are the Jean Charest's of this website. They are here to kill the protest energy. They do it by infusing this forum with political babble.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

You think that I'm "democrat shill" & bracket me with Jean Charest ?!!!

You're really quite sad, bad & probably more than a li'l mad !!

Your "Schizoid Embolism" awaits !

ad lucem ...

[-] -2 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

Hmm... That's not Thrasymaque. It's some new user you are insulting for no reason at all. It's kind of sad that you push new people away in that manner.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"It's kind of sad" that your head is so far up your (x) really !!!

nosce te ipsum ...

[-] -1 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

Pointless insult, as usual.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"No Way to Avoid Global Financial Collapse, Says Predictive Software", by Susanne Posel :

There's the 'point' ! Now go impale yourself on it !!

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"Romney and Ryan : Right Wing Billionaires Think it's Time to Take the Gloves Off", by "The Real News" { http://therealnews.com/t2/ } :

"The right wing elite think they can make a major breakthrough, they can end the last vestiges of the welfare state".

e tenebris ...

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

You're joking right? This site means nothing to Occupy. It's not even about Occupy. It could, and should, be taken down, or, better yet, it should be changed to reflect what Occupy is all about. It would only help Occupy since new people coming here just get confused about what Occupy is and isn't.

Read the news section. There are all kinds of activities and events being prepared by Occupy.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

'Tr@shytron' ; BLAH ; Blah ; Fkn blah !!! Like a stuck record !! For someone who claims not to be "boring", you are boring the balls off me !

Above is your true voice and intent re. The OWS Forum & you clearly want it shut down !!! All because they kicked your insufferable (x) out very early on and rejected your 'little bit of computer code' !! You mean spirited ; self absorbed 'half-wit', shame on you !

et cave - angius in herba ...

[-] -1 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

My preference is that the forum would be changed to reflect what Occupy is, but, if that's impossible, I do think it should be taken down. It's a question of first impressions. The news section is great, but this forum has nothing to do with Occupy. It's become a political forum. As such, it only hurts the protest. Not that it's important to the protest, it really isn't, but it's a problem when someone who doesn't know anything about Occupy comes here as he or she will only get confused and mistake Occupy for some type of political group.

Have you not been on Occupy forums where protesters take part. It's completely different than this forum. Most people here have never been to an Occupy event, and, as such, they are living in some kind of illusion as what Occupy is.

By the way, your rants are extremely repetitive, predictable, and boring.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Consider : OCCUPY is many things ; in many places ; to many people !!!

Who The Fk made you arbiter of anything around here ?! Who gives a flying fk for your "preferences" ? Cogitate upon the answer : ONLY U & OWS's Corporate 'enemies' !!

You are NOT a real well wisher & your persistence despite all the opprobrium speaks to a thick skin ; sociopathy and a deeper motivation. Perhaps even pecuniary !

ad iudicium ...

[-] -1 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

You like the fallacy of appeal to authority and appeal to motive. It seems an obsession of yours. I write ideas. Some will agree, some won't. It's really simple. Other people here also believe the forum needs to be taken down or modified because the moderators are doing nothing to keep in on topic.

Saying Occupy is many things to many people is too easy, and, it's a fallacy. If this site became a site on biology, or a site for the republican party, you would most likely agree it should be taken down since it would be off topic. Occupy isn't everything. I believe it has strayed off topic, you don't. That's all there is to it. I'm not here trying to "destroy" Occupy like you claim.

This forum was destroyed long ago when it was abandoned by jart, zoe, and the moderators. They don't post here for a reason. It has been co-opted by politically inclined shills, most of them democrats.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

You are The Definitive "Logical Fallacy ; Conspiracy Theory" on this forum & one only has to do a cursory search of my forum-posts and comments to get to know where I'm coming from.

You have issues with 'jart & zoe' and you seek to undermine this forum at all costs. You have put a lot of time and energy into your nefarious work here. You speak with forked tongue & malice aforethought.

You rightly don't like DemoCraps but never have a word to say about RepubliCons !!! How & why is of course rather obvious !! It is clearly you who is The Real Shill here !

temet nosce ...

[-] -2 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

Appeal to motive.

Nice dem shill logic, VQkag2 style. "If you attack the dem shill, it means you're a republican." Way to understand OWS.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

... & Common Sense !!

ad iudicium ...

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

About your book, if you want your ideas heard I suggest you take out the most important concepts and write short descriptions of each. Perhaps you could post them here. You'll find a lot of people are too lazy to read a full book. If you had a really good abstract, then it would help to get people interested. They could understand the core concepts, and, if they wish to learn more, they could then read the book.

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[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

It could also be because you have not yet learned to accept criticism. When I read your book and commented on what I believed were flaws, you responded in a very aggressive and disrespectful way. I read other comments, and you did much of the same to other users.

As the author of a book, you must remain professional. You must be like René Descartes in this manner. He went as far as ask that people criticize one of his books (meditations I think - too lazy to check), and then responded to the best of ability to each criticism with respect.

René Descartes understood that critics are you best friend. Criticism is what will make you grow and become sharper as a thinker. You don't learn from high-fives, you learn from criticism. High-fives make you feel good, but that's about it.

The people on this site should also consider this. People who criticize certain aspects of Occupy like myself are not necessarily here to "destroy" the protest. We are here to help it. At least I am. I criticize what I love because I want it to become better. Someone who always agrees with everything and gives high-fives to everyone is useless for Occupy. Those people follow Occupy like they would a cult.

[Deleted]

[+] -4 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

I'm probably one of the few people here who took the time to read your book. I'm a speed reader. One of the few on this forum. I read a 200 page book in 30 minutes.

But, my argument still holds even if I didn't read your book or if you think I didn't read it. If someone criticizes your work and you think they didn't read it, then you should still be professional. Simply tell them in a nice way you don't think they read it. Attacking them and being disrespectful hurts your reputation and that will hurt your book.

Note, I said reputation does not matter, only ideas. Unfortunately, most people always get caught up in the logical fallacy of thinking that reputation is as or more important than ideas. In another comment, you make this mistake. So, the real intellectuals will not care about your reputation at all, but most people here are not intellectuals and function by logical fallacies. They will be bothered when you disrespect them. I don't care, I'm just pointing it out. If you don't think it's a problem, then you can certainly keep disrespecting those who criticize your work.

[Deleted]

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

Yes, you are right, I lacked professionalism when i used insults, whatever you read me or not. But you didn't do much better in the end, if you remember.

I'm not here trying to push my book. I have no reputation to uphold here. I can use all the tactics I need to convey my message. And, this is not an excuse for you to wreck your reputation. You're a serious author her to promote your work. Are you really going to defend being disrespectful and insulting because someone else on the forum does the same. That's a really weak argument.

It's also a logical fallacy: two wrongs don't make a right.

I should add that you just proved that sandysterling was you,

I read her post, but she's not me. She provided arguments for technology, and I checked up on them. She was right. Solar power seems to be the future. She linked to a news article on the subject.

In any case, she left her contact details so you can always verify who she is. You're in the same timezone. Just call her editor if you think her reputation is more important than her ideas.

[Deleted]

[+] -4 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

No manipulation, only truth. As you said, people here don't care about your ideas or your book. I was only trying to elucidate the mystery as to why. You have no reason to get angry. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps people avoid your ideas for a whole different reason. Perhaps they are just bad?

[Deleted]

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

You shouldn't be here to meet "nice" people. You should be here to exchange great ideas. Period.

It's normal if you don't get an instant reaction to your news ideas. People are naturally scared of change, even though the people on this site come here for change. Don't forget that this site is flooded with shaky theories concerning a new better world every single day. Give your idea some time. Accept criticism. Improve the flaws that are reported, and the flaws you end up seeing (there are always flaws in each system). If you really believe in your ideas, you won't give up. When people aren't looking improve them. When they are looking, share them with respect and honesty.

It seems to me you spend a lot of time on this site insulting others and not being professional.

You should be happy that I bump your thread by posting comments in it. Without me, this posting would have died a long time ago.

[Deleted]

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

That's not true, I haven't met a single post on the matter of a "new better world" here except mine.

You haven't seen postings regarding RBE (Ressource Based Economy) of the Venus Project type? You haven't seen postings talking about a world without money. There are all kinds of flaky new world theories on here.

Thinking you're the only one here with a "new system" is arrogant and myopic.

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

The problem with OWS is that it lost its definition, not that it needs to shed it. We have to go back to the roots that made it strong. It must once again become an anarchic protest which attacks the system as a whole from the outside, and which does not play into politics or attack the system from the inside.

OWS is also about grassroots activism. It's about understanding that we have the power to change things, that we don't need to wait for politicians to do it for us. It's about building better communities.

This forum has little to do with what OWS is all about. If you go in the streets, you'll see that OWS has retained its anarchist roots, its only here that it has fallen into the demise of political discussion.

If everyone on this forum took the time to go to at least one OWS event, the forum would become better. Like I said previously, the problem is that there is no bridge between the protests/activities and this forum. This website has lost touch with what is the reality of OWS. It has essentially become irrelevant to the protest and the movement.

Even if you can't make it to an OWS event, you can help your communities directly. Go out in the street and work with the people who need help. Build bridges. Talk to the needy. Form groups. Shelters. Don't spend all your time on this site babbling about Obama.


If you desire to talk about politics, find a group that is about that. We need to keep OWS pure and unique. There's only one anarchic protest of this size at the moment. Let's not wash it down with politics.


And, of course, one thing you can do to help this forum is to discuss ideas, instead of discussing the proposers of ideas. If an idea is good, comment on it. If it's bad, ignore it and move on. Push the good ideas. It doesn't matter who is writing those ideas at all. The only thing that matters are ideas.

I would personally remove the scoring system if this was my site since it encourages hierarchy instead of ideas. People need to start reading the comments and stop worrying about the score of a poster, his intentions, etc...

[Deleted]

[-] 3 points by Endgame (535) 11 years ago

Proteus I agree so much with the substance of what you said. Probably could of went without calling it "retarded" since that will cause some people here to automatically jump to being aggressively defensive.

But what you pointed out is exactly why this movement is weakening and becoming more irrelevant in the U.S. as time goes on. Having the small minority of Occupy attempt to turn this movement into a pure bred abolish government Anarchistic movement is what is holding the movement(especially here in the states) back. And if we continue down this path its what is going to kill it.

This movement went from a big tent populous movement to now being lead by the 1% of the 99% that wants to abolish government and not fix it. Something that the country will NEVER get behind. Hell most of Occupy won't even get behind that.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by Endgame (535) 11 years ago

lol trust me I understand your frustration on this subject.

I also like what you laid out. Basically we all agree that there needs to be a complete evolution from the current system we have. But what the Anarchists want to do is so unrealistic in terms of just jumping to the system we have now to the system (or lack there of) that they want. Like you said "anarchists want to shoot the guy dead and live from the resulting mess"

I happen to believe our first realistic and actual achievable goal should be to end the bribery in our current system. Make it illegal for elected officials to take any money, promises, etc from any special interests groups,rich individuals, etc. That is the core of the problem. And it ties to all things. Fix that and we can create a system where we can actually have a genuine conversation on how to evolve to a much better system.

[Deleted]

[-] -2 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

Honestly, I don't understand why people want to cap salaries. There's no logic in this. What does it matter if your neighbor is making millions. It has no effect on your life. Dropping salaries won't mean that the poor will get richer. The idea of equality in salaries, or more equality, is bunk.

The problem is that wealth is not static. We can create more. When the agricultural revolution happened the wealth around the globe was multiplied many times over. This could happen again. The world is not made of a limited number of things we have to distribute evenly. We can always make more things. In other words, It's not about distributing 100 tomatoes evenly, it's about making more tomatoes if you don't have enough.

In about 20 years, we will reach a new revolution. The power revolution. At this point, the power we use around the globe will by multiplied many times over. We'll have a lot more energy than now, which means we will be able to grow more food and make more things.

200 years ago, pretty much every body was poor by today's standards. Now, people have houses, cars, TV's, etc... Not everyone, but a lot of people. Even in poor countries. When we get another revolution, this will increase again.

It's false to think there are many poor people in Africa because there are many rich people in US. Absolutely false. Before US existed, the people in Africa were already poor.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

money is relative

the value is based on how much money each has compared to each other

[-] 0 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

You're one sharp mind.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Hark the Deeply Naturally Conservative voice of an instinctive reactionary and 'pro status quo', anti-Occupy shill !!! You really need to stop pretending to be any kind of "anarchist", desperately trying to talk about what is or isn't "revolutionary" !! You are in more than two minds and you are unravelling !

multum in parvo ...

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

I tried but though he instantly down-voted me (lol & [-] 0 points by shadz66 (6641) 2 minutes ago : Hark the Deeply Naturally Conservative voice etc.) - he wouldn't bite, lol !!! We can draw many conclusions but can be absolutely assured of his abiding ...

mala fides ...

[Deleted]

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

You're very esoteric. Did you just come back from your yoga class?

[-] -2 points by April (3196) 11 years ago

I mostly agree. But I think the issue is what country or countries are in a position, or will get themselves in position, to make the most of the advantages associated with the transition from a manufacturing based economy to an information/knowledge based economy? And what's the best way to get there.

China is clearly taking advantage of their entry to 'capitalism' since becoming the global leader in lowest cost of manufacturing. Which leaves the developed countries that have relied on manufacturing, in a bit of lurch. Where the transition to a knowledge based economy is happening faster than the ramp up in education to fullfill the needs of that economic transition. The 'demand' for highly educated knowledge based workers is greater than the supply. This is great if you have the education and skills to be part of the 'supply' of knowledge based workers. In some degree it leads to increased wages for knowledge based workers. But it's leaving many others behind. In some part it leads to further outsourcing overseas to get the 'supply' that is demanded.

As globalization and the transition from a manufacturing based economy has been happening in the US, college gradution rates have not increased in 30 years. It's remained stagnant. I would say that our economic position would be far different had we ramped up college graduation rates many years ago. Instead, the cost of college has sextupled over the past 20 years. Rising faster than even the cost of healthcare. Making it increasingly out of reach for many people.

There were similar problems when the economy transitioned from agriculture to large scale manufacturing (assembly line). There were lots of people left behind. The people that could take advantage of the transition went crazy doing that. Which led to the Great Depression.

[-] -2 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

US is clearly in the best position to transfer towards an information/knowledge based economy. IBM, Apple, Facebook, Google, etc... are all from US. I don't see many countries competing so strongly in that arena.

[Deleted]

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

I never considered you as an enemy, this is something you came up with yourself. I'm not here to agree with people and get high-fives. I'm here to exchange ideas. It's not because I disagree with certain ideas someone might have that I consider him or her an enemy, similarly, if you agreed with everything I wrote, I wouldn't necessarily consider you a friend.

Actually, my "friends" are those that disagree with my ideas and provide strong counter-arguments. Those that just say "troll" and disagree are worthless. Those that just "agree" are also worthless. Those that matter are those that disagree and say why, I can learn from those people.

I've always been 100% honest on this site. If I play a game, it is to teach a lesson. You should never worry about the proposer of an idea, only the idea itself. I could have 50 usernames here and it wouldn't matter. I actually like to change usernames simply so that people look at the ideas instead of the proposer. Most people here will eventually stop looking at your ideas, they'll just start looking at your username. They twinkle you just because they agreed with something you said in the past, or they'll stinkle you because they disagreed. They'll give you high-fives when they agree, and ignore you when they disagree. They'll label you because of what you said at one point. Proteus will become more important than the ideas of Proteus. If you change usernames often, this problem is somewhat alleviated.

It's normal, people often fall in the trap of logical fallacies. Ad hominem, appeals from authority, appeals to intention, etc... All those are rampant here. They are logical fallacies and do not lead to the truth. Only the ideas matter, not the proposer. It does not matter who someone his and what is intentions are, just look at the ideas.

[Deleted]

[-] -3 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

The idea that reputation is important is a logical fallacy. Once an idea is expressed it lives by itself. If the most vile person on earth and the most honest and wonderful person on earth both have the same idea, the idea won't magically be different because of the different reputations both of these people acquired throughout their various actions in life. The idea is the same. This site should be about ideas, not reputations. If you can't look passed a reputation to see an idea, it is your problem not the problem of the proposer of the idea.

We can't create a future world based on listening to people with better reputations and ignore those with bad reputations. We should simply listen to the ideas and pick the best from the bad no matter who came up with them.

[Deleted]

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 11 years ago

You'll have to develop a thicker skin with trashy! Lol! Tell him to go pound sand!!

[-] -2 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

You fail to understand the logical fallacies of appeal to authority, and appeal to motive. An idea is an idea. It doesn't matter where it came from.

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (331) 11 years ago

I agree that ideas will stand on their own merit. But I believe that some prejudge the idea prior to comprehending and evaluating it based on source or perceived credibility. Would be interesting to be able to post ideas anonymously and then have the conversation begin.

[+] -5 points by electron (-492) 11 years ago

As far as this website is concerned, and I really don't think it has much to do with Occupy and has much impact on the protest at all, perhaps no impact, I'd like to know your thoughts about how it has turned into a political discussion. Do you think this is bad or good? I think it's horrible!

I ask, because the same thing happened to the Québec protests and you surely know about them as you are in Québec. CLASS which is an anarchist organization that functions much like OWS with general assemblies, etc... was leading the student protests in Québec and they managed to get many people in the street marching constantly. This is a big achievement! Although the protest started by being about student fees, it quickly became a generalized protest much like OWS.

The protest died when Jean Charest called for elections. It was a smart move on his part. Very smart. He probably won't be re-elected, but he was able to diffuse the whole protest in one blow. Many Québecers are now talking about independence instead of protesting against the government. He completely changed the topic of discussion.

The problem with OWS is that many people here think it's a solution engine. It's not. It's a protest. It creates tensions against the government. That's why it cannot become political. It has to remain outside the system so that it can always create pressure on the system no matter who is in office. It comes with the idea that the system is broken. If you do not believe it is, then OWS is not for you. This is the most basic concept.

A major hurdle for Occupy is that people are not patient. They want to see results, fast. That's the modern world. That's why people are lazy to read your book. That's why Occupy is becoming about politics instead of being a protest. People think they can get change faster from politics than they can from a protest. On the short term, this could be true, on the long term it is not. Occupy is the only anarchist protest in US today, it should remain like this. It should go back to its roots. If someone wants to create a political party with Occupy ideologies (which is really impossible because the basic concept of Occupy is that the system is broke, so, if you create a political party, you automatically don't believe in this idea), then they need to use another name so that Occupy can remain solely out of the system.

It's a long term thing. Solutions won't happen tomorrow. Occupy should be there for the long run as a protest engine. Nothing more, nothing less. Others will provide solutions.