Forum Post: The first deaths at an Occupy Camp...Zucotti Park
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 6, 2011, 12:59 p.m. EST by thomasmiller
(163)
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Well, it looks like these are the first round of deaths at the Occupy camps caused by drug overdosages. In this situation, I do not blame the Mayor's action to shut the camp down. It had to happen at some point...someone was going to get hurt or killed because of it.
Can someone please tell me will anyone come forward to take personal responsibility if someone dies at Zuccotti Park? Does anyone really care?
this movement is for all of us, the poor and sick as well. If you find someone strung out on drugs you should help them, they should not be out "occupying" they should be in treatment, getting help.
However the fact that this happens all the time in our society is even more tragic.
They should had taught proper dosage instead of war on drugs. The war on drugs is just like abstinence only education with more violence.
Why should I take responsibility for their actions?
Drugs overdoses are generally caused by the dead drug user. As for rape, evertime someone acts as if it the rape was, likely caused by anything but a rapist( learn before you make ignorant and rampant accusations) 97% those who rape in the military where rapists before they enlisted(give or take 2%) to allow for anomalies. Rape is a crime that is completely without a color, creed, political opinion and or type of employ. The statements similar to @aquainted comment are dangerous. When ever there is opportunity to rape, a rapist will take that chance. The women should be safe and not sleep alone in a tent with out some form of patrols. Rape is a compulsion and that leads to the reality that a rapist can want to be part of OWS and change, but it doesn't remove the need to rape. Take precautions absolutely but have no hope that you can predict or stop a user or Sex offender. Use energy to help the victim not blame without any substantial reasons or proof. The only thing that gets done is letting a rapist win.
My point is is this...yeah rape is mostly the fault of the person who did it, but were there preventable conditions inside the camp which contributed to the rape? When a woman is raped inside a parking garage, ultimately the parking garage gets sued. Ever notice how parking garages are designed? They are purposely designed so as to maximize security and prevent such lawsuits. If a crime happened to me in Zucotti Park then you bet, I would sue Occupy.
I am long in the pen but you just repeated a large portion of my response in short form. Rape is going to be a problem in all community's. As a woman I want better protection even if it begs a question about "peaceful occupation ". I wanted to point out that ultimately we are our neighbors keeper and that using rape as a political agenda is dangerous.
Personal responsibility is a lost art. Due to governance and indoctrination by public school systems and people requesting governance constantly, I can see where one would believe that someone should be "held" responsible for another's actions. So theoretically, I don't attend OWS because I work and don't have the time... But I constantly spread the word of the occupy movement and possibly some of those that I contact could be people that use "drugs". Lets say they attend OWS and OD... Am I therefore responsible for the actions of that person? Because me being 20 miles away and less proximal than say someone 5 feet away has the same bearing IMHO. This is something I have been yelling for quite some time now. I do not need or desire to be governed by the likes of the idiots currently in office, I also am trying to figure out what i have done to consent to their rule of law since I never consented to being governed.
"Fault" is something which a court determines. Ultimately, in situations of death, small percentages of fault are placed on different people and entities. The question which must be asked is if it were not for <name of company or individual here> would this have happened. People and companies are sued all the time over such things, juries place percentages of fault all the time and settlements are made all the time.
I understand what you stated, however my paradigm is one of this nature. If I never consented to be governed how can courts establish jurisdiction over me the person. In order to be adjudicated you have to give consent. Without it there is no lawful charge that can be applied. In this though, under common law as opposed to color of law, statues, and ordinances which apply to "corporations" I concede that causing harm to another directly can be lawfully charged against another human being. With that I cannot see where personal responsibility can be contrived to mean that another human being should be charged with the legal term "Fault".
definition blacks law dictionary- FAULT. American Law. Negligence; an error or defect of judgment or of conduct; any deviation from prudence, duty, or rectitude; any shortcoming, or neglect of care or performance resulting from inattention, incapacity, or perversity; a wrong tendency, course, or act; bad faith or mismanagement; neglect of duty.
And these are just the crimes we know of. How many have died and been buried in the garbage that is festering in Zucotti?
lolwut
Death of their spirit and ambition wutnut, is a no less a death!
I think we would have to know a lot more about this woman and what happened before speculating on the factors which led to her death. Maybe OWS bears some responsibility, maybe not. It may be that people die every day from drug overdoses in that city, but this only made the news because she was at the Occupy camp.
If I didn't kill the person then I don't bear responsibility. Its called PERSONAL responsibility. I am only held to account for my actions. People OD all the time, you only care if you think it enbarasses us.
It seems to me there is no captain of this ship...there is no one to take responsibility for anything. So if a woman dies in the camp then there is no captain to say that it was their fault because of a lack of security or something like that. I see how it is. If there is no one to be held responsible, then these camps are dangerous places to be and the city has every right to shut it down.
If a women is killed in Wal-mart, is it the fault of the store or the killer?
Depends on whether the store itself and/or personnel, policies, etc., provided an environment that caused or contributed to it. If not and it's simply a case of chance that something happens there, then not. If they have an environment where people can go to hit up, it's known to management, and they do nothing to discourage or prevent that, then yes, they likely would be held responsible.
Yes, it is partially the fault of Wal-mart. Usually in these instances an insurance company steps in to attempt to adjust the claim, the victim's family usually files suit against the Wal-mart and then there is a settlement. Usually we can place like 20-30% fault on Wal-mart for various reasons such as a lack of security, lighting, etc. It happens all the time...
What happened to personal responsibility. I guess if you murder someone you are only 70% to blame, "Hey it was dark and there was no security guard, what was I supposed to do, respect human life or something?"
If a drug user ODs on your doorstep, I guess thats your fault.
If a pedophile priest molests dozens of children, and the diocese knew about it after the first time and kept him in ministry and around children, do you think the people who failed to remove him from a position where he could continue to harm children bears any responsibility for their failure to act?
Thats different now isn't it.
It may or may not be different depending on other facts. If, for example, Walmart had reason to know that a particular person posed a threat to its employees or customers and failed to take reasonable steps to protect people from the killer, I think it is the same situation.
I want to let you know that I am a personal injury attorney and am an expert on this subject;) Occupy is now a non-profit and can be sued...lots of $$$ in the general account.
Well that explains why you have no concept of personal responsibility. "Your kid died of an overdose in a school bathroom, sue the school!" Its not like the kid or the parent have any blame in that.
Here is how fault works in most states...you can attribute a percentage of fault to each incident...so lets say you trip, fall and die on my sidewalk. Of course, it was your fault, but a small percentage of blame can be put back to myself for not shoveling the walk. The question is did I do everything that I could to make the walk safe and the answer is no. I didnt shovel the walk so some of the blame is on me.
The question you have to ask yourself is if Occupy is doing all they can to make sure the environment is safe. For example, do they have an event plan filed with the NYPD? Do they have adequate security? Do they conduct safety meetings with the camps occupants? I could keep going.
So if someone dies in one of those tents of anything then we could probably attribute a percentage of fault back to the Occupy people. Afterall, if it were not for that camp and the unsafe conditions that exist then that person would not have died.
They have security and safety meetings
The "Occupy People" is all of us. Are you really willing to argue that a drug addict wouldn't have found a different place to OD?
"Fault" is up for a court to decide. If my daughter died in one of these Occupy camps then I would then turn around and sue whoever I could and can more then guarantee that a judge or a jury would decide some of the blame could be placed on Occupy. If it were not for this event, then this would not have happened. These deaths at events, stores, businesses, etc. happen all the time and a percentage of fault is always placed.
If you think about it, there is a percentage of fault on the Occupy camps. To say the Occupy camp had no part in this is unrealistic. The fact is there is obviously more they could have done to prevent this and if it were not for them then this would not have happened.
Anarchies don't have captains.
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Can't wait for it to happen in NY. I give it 2 maybe 3 weeks.
I cant believe no one cares or wishes to acknowledge these deaths. I guess these people who die at the camps...its their own damned fault and they dont matter.
That is exactly right. The more the better. Soon will be cold and snowy, even more deaths.
Sadly drug abuse is everywhere. Were drugs legal and regulated there would be many many fewer deaths by overdose or by dangerous "fillers". These sad events happen every day in many places. This is the result of the war on drugs.
Visit LetsGetTheFactsStraight.com
There was also a death at Occupy Vancouver a few days ago.
All I am saying is these camps are not safe places to be and Occupy is doing little to improve the safety and security. A regular event in New York City has to go through a huge process in order to maximize safety and security. There is none of that in this park and when someone dies no one seems to care. Thats wrong.
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I can't make ends meet, all I can do is educate. It is very hard to capitulate to the "Everyone gets a trophy generation", or the contingent of failed baby boomers who want a shot at revolution again. I am a40 yo NYer, raised by left radical parent and instead of joining with my parents I have struggled to raise 3kids 17-22 in ny and by lost sleep,lost social time, etc. I am responsible for my actions and never let my kids lose that sense of responsibility. My adult children are lucky enough to make a living. I wonder when OWS will take a position on more than a sense/feeling of not getting. Maybe they should have only gotten a trophy if they won! I am waiting for a statement or specific request for change in society. Then the other 90% of the 99% can choose to agree.
[Deleted]
I visited and left with all I expected (nothing). Suggestion..... Don't advertise before you have a product, as people who have a full plate will probably not look again.
Visit LetsGetTheFactsStraight.com
They're dealing drugs at ows. If someone didn't OD , it would be news.
Drug overdoses and rapes are likely caused by black ops groups to shut down the movement.
I would blame them and take precautions.
Moron.
Well, how did you think they were going to subvert the movement?
They did the similar thing with the Tea Party and the unions to control them. Now who is the moron?
WHAT did WHO do to the TEA party?
The Tea Party was instantly infiltrated and steered into the ditch. OWS is next.
the TEA party in a ditch? where do you get your propaganda?