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Forum Post: The end solution.

Posted 6 years ago on Sept. 21, 2011, 6:58 p.m. EST by Rlado (7)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

This isn't any sort of short term solution, or probably even a within-our-lifetime long term one. It is just the goal we must strive to reach. this is what I posted in response to "What is the solution?": "How about no money and no bartering, since that would only be money in disguise? I heard somewhere that there used to be a word called 'dineo', which meant gifts, which later became the Spanish word 'dinero' (money). Even if this is not true, it shows you the difference between a natural economic system, and a greed based one. After all, you do not usually barter with family and friends."
The world is our family, and its people are your friends. It is frustrating that I have only read two other people in my life with this idea, and the rest of people think it's just money or bartering.



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[-] 1 points by trose23 (3) 6 years ago

if wall street is all about bankers and big wigg corp. we need to start talking about boycotting what is all involved with the fed, government and wall street..we need to start looking to alternative goods, and everything along that line--small business all of that sort..is we are purchasing these wall street influenced goods and they are taking out tax money as well..driving health care and education up..we are only fueling their means of a good life by..purchesing main stream--go to alternatives!! spread the word..the way the economy is now..wall street and the big wiggs cant afford the people not buying their goods!! Which is poisoning us anyway or brain washing us! look what the government allows into our food! fast food common!! processed foods!! our water! Arsenic in Apple Juice http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/dr-oz-investigates-arsenic-apple-juice--go there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSDHvlcW_aw--good info about whats in our water--investigation!

everything we purchase is involved with the enslavers! they will take our money, our lives, our education, our health! why wouldnt they approve brain washing!

go to the alternatives!

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 6 years ago

its not true, trade and division of labour have no necessary connection. if you think otherwise then make an argument instead of claims. (@zenbowman)

[-] 1 points by ZenBowman (59) 6 years ago

Unless you are 100% self-sufficient, how do you expect to obtain food, water and shelter apart from through trading?

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 6 years ago

by making gifts.

[-] 1 points by aowie1 (1) from Westminster, CO 6 years ago

Perhaps getting some legislature thrown in about penalizing corporations for sending jobs overseas would add to the solution. Making it not worth-their-while with tax hikes in specific areas would solve a lot of the decay in the job market while also putting a lot of the money we shell out to the corporations back into our own economy.

[-] 1 points by gracie789 (1) 6 years ago

Corporations have so much power because they legally have the rights of people. We have started a campaign for an amendment to the Constitution: The People's Rights Amendment. If passed it would repeal Citizen's United and take away much of the sway corporations have in court. Please check us out at freespeechforpeople.org. This will require massive national mobilization, so we need help! Sign our petition and get involved in anyway you can! Slavery wouldn't have ended, and women wouldn't have the vote, unless we'd fought for those amendments. There are solutions to this problem, and this is a really good first step!

Here's our proposed text:

Amendment XXVIII

Section 1.  We the people who ordain and establish this Constitution intend the rights protected by this Constitution to be the rights of natural persons.

Section 2.  People, person, or persons as used in this Constitution does not include corporations, limited liability companies or other corporate entities established by the laws of any state, the United States, or any foreign state, and such corporate entities are subject to such regulation as the people, through their elected state and federal representatives, deem reasonable and are otherwise consistent with the powers of Congress and the States under this Constitution.

Section 3.  Nothing contained herein shall be construed to limit the people's rights of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, and such other rights of the people, which rights are inalienable.
[-] 1 points by ZenBowman (59) 6 years ago

Unfortunately this is hardly a solution of any kind. Trade is an essential component of a society that has division of labor.

We could do away with division of labor, we'd just have to kill off about 99% of humans, which isn't particularly viable or desirable.

[-] 1 points by Rlado (7) 6 years ago

I am not saying do away with division of labor. I'm saying that everybody wants to do a certain job(s), and they want to so badly that they would do them for free. In a literal free market society, people would give to those they think should have what they are providing.

[-] 1 points by ZenBowman (59) 6 years ago

Are you sure there would be people willing to work for free? I highly doubt this.

[-] 1 points by Rlado (7) 6 years ago

Well, yes. It's better than debt-bondage. Also, a person who doesn't work for no reason would not receive many gifts from hard-working people.

[-] 1 points by pariscommune (205) 6 years ago

if everybody works for free.. where does all the work go?

[-] 1 points by Rlado (7) 6 years ago

It goes to whoever the worker thinks deserves it.

[-] 1 points by ZenBowman (59) 6 years ago

So basically you propose continuing trade, but without the convenience that money provides.

You call it "exchanging gifts", but in essence what you have described is trade.

[-] 1 points by Rlado (7) 6 years ago

There is no exchange made, so it is not trade or bartering.

[-] 1 points by Rlado (7) 6 years ago

If everything including ourselves initially came from the earth, which asked nothing in return, what right do we have to tax these gifts?

[-] 0 points by theocraft (0) from Milwaukee, WI 6 years ago

Again if we could advance technology enough to grow materials, there would be no need for money. (Much like how they are now able to replicate blood cells, mineral crystals & grow them; the same may eventually be possible for gold or other precious metals.) Thinking further along those lines, you could grow duplicates (to the sub atomic level) of any type of currency; thus rendering it useless. Only thing left for mankind would be to do what you want, work because you like to work in any field you like. There would be no external material motivations anymore, except for possibly land... you may have to work in order to stay on a piece of land....

[-] 1 points by Rlado (7) 6 years ago

True. Or, even before this, when more people learn about lucid dreaming, they'll soon discover that no matter what material things or power you have, it won't make you any more satisfied.