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Forum Post: The Coming War With Iran

Posted 11 years ago on Aug. 14, 2012, 3:30 p.m. EST by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Saber-rattling against Iran among top Israeli officials has become something of a national sport in recent weeks.

Though much of the rhetoric is nothing new, many observers say the amount of public debate about an Israeli attack on Iran— driven by leaks "from unnamed officials" and prominently placed op-eds alike—is 'unprecedented' and has now 'reached a fevered pitch.'

As The Guardian reports:

In the past few days, the Israeli public has been hit by a blizzard of speculative articles suggesting a military strike against Iran's nuclear sites is imminent.

The talk is now of a timetable of weeks, rather than months and some observers believe that Israel will act in the runup to the US presidential election – at a time when it could be difficult and damaging for President Obama to withhold his backing in the face of a hawkish and vehemently pro-Israel opponent, Mitt Romney, who has already indicated his support for unilateral action by the Jewish state.

On Tuesday, an article in Ma'ariv suggested that Netanyahu and Barak have set a deadline of 25 September for Obama to clearly state that the US itself will take military action. [...]The implication is that, in the absence of a public declaration, Israel will press on with its own plans to strike at the Iranian nuclear programme. Reuters notes that the selection by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Avraham Dichter as his new civil defense minister comes amid a "heightened public debate over a possible strike on Iran" but was inconclusive about what direct impact Dichter may have on such plans. Previously the head of Shin Bet, Israel's domestic intelligence agency, Dichter has warned against attacking Iran without direct from the US.

Reuters continues:

In a sign of mounting Israeli concern, Netanyahu told his cabinet on Sunday that most other threats to Israeli security were "dwarfed" by the prospect of Iran producing an atomic warhead.

Israel has been "investing billions in home-front defence," Netanyahu also said, adding to media speculation his cabinet might be mulling a possible attack.

The Israeli military has this week been testing a text message emergency notification service in about a dozen cities. A television station reported on Sunday that Israel expected to sustain as many as 50,000 missile strikes in the event of any conflict with Iran.

In remarks to reporters in February, Dichter said that Israel "is not a superpower" and should "not lead a world offensive against Iran" although it needed to prepare in case the world did not take action. The Associated Press adds:

A poll released Sunday suggested the public, normally hawkish on security matters, has big qualms about a solo Israeli strike on Iran that does not have Washington's blessing. The survey, conducted by Israel's Dialog Institute, showed 46 percent oppose such an attack as opposed to 32 percent who support it and 22 percent who have no opinion. A total of 504 people took part in the survey, which had a margin of error of 4.3 percentage points.

Ezrahi, the political scientist, applauds the public debate.

"Every democracy should discuss the issue of going to war with such potentially fateful results," he said.

But Nachman Shai, a lawmaker with the opposition Kadima Party and a former military spokesman, thinks drawing in the public was a "bad idea."

"It frightens people to live in a country that is talking about war all the time," he said. "What does it do to us as a country, a society? Even though we're a society that is familiar with this, it's a very heavy dose." Ray McGovern, former CIA analyst and frequent contributor to Common Dreams, analyzed the long push for war by Israel and the manner in which the Israeli establishment thinks it can apply pressure to the Obama administration in the midst of this year's campaign season. He writes this week: Netanyahu gives every evidence of believing that — for the next 12 weeks — he is in the catbird seat and that, if he provokes hostilities with Iran, Obama will feel compelled to jump in with both feet, i. e., selecting from the vast array of forces already assembled in the area.




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[-] 5 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 11 years ago

And Equador has accepted Julian Assanges bid for asylum!

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 11 years ago

The problem is going to be getting him from the embassy to the airplane.

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 11 years ago

A war with Iran would be very difficult for American Elites,I think.Such a war would cause the oil to stop,When the oil stops,the gasoline for American cars stops.When the gas for American cars stops,martial law will have to be declared by the POTUS.This would almost certainly lead to open revolt by a heavily armed population-soon repressed and followed by an underground resistance movement that would be hard to control.This sort of thing is also sometimes called Shitting the Bed.I am not too sure more false flag type operations or Propaganda Gin Ups could smooth things at the outset-maybe they could put one over again,since The American People have already swallowed a series of Big Enchiladas.Whether they are able to accept a Super Sized Combination Plate remains to be seen.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 11 years ago

Like your mix of food analogies. Enchiladas are a favorite.

Wouldn't war cause oil to skyrocket? For those heavily invested in oil the profits would be tremendous. Besides, the war is over there in a foreign country far away. Lots of cruise missiles shot off that will need to be replaced, good for the military industrial complex, plus all of the extra fuel needed to run the war will raise oil prices further. It's a win win for some at least. And the people will be rootin' for our guys no matter how many innocent women and children they kill. How can we possibly lose?

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 11 years ago

The food analogies were used by the American writer Randy Shilts III to describe the discomfort of San Francisco gay leaders being told that HIV was probably a contageous disease already widespread among gays(big enchilada)and that gay leaders would need to find a way to persuade gays to cooperate with closing the bath houses(the unpalatable combination plate).Randy Shilts died in the early 2000's of complications of HIV-he was a person who is greatly missed and he remains among my favorite writers

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 11 years ago

The ensuing occupation will make us loose. Our leaders still have not taken the hint from Afghanistan. Iran will be Afghanistan times ten. Money will be sucked out of the U.S.A. as the U.S.A. has to bribe everybody in the Middle-East to do anything. Legend goes right now the U.S.A. is flying C-5s into Jordan filled with pallets of money, and that money is being stolen by the people we have to bribe before we can bribe them. Imagine how much more money will have to be flown in to keep everybody bribed in Iran, and all that money leaving the U.S.A. has a multiplier effect. It is no longer circulating around the U.S. thus screwing every American ten times over. Notice our economy here in the U.S.A. is on the rocks. Its not the banksters; they've always been there stealing. Its those wars in the Middle-East causing that. Any occupation of Iran will be the straw which assures U.S.'s total economic collapse.

Oh yea, as an aside, Iran has torpedos and missiles faster than anything we got moving. I'm not so sure doing war with Iran would be so easy. Look how hard it is for the creeps to do little Syria. Pray the dumb dumbs in Washington, or whoever is running this U.S.A., ain't really so stupid to get into a shooting war with Iran!

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 11 years ago

Sorry my tongue in cheek humor of corporate America's view of war was not more obvious. I don't support any war, except the one that needs to be waged on the American people, to wake them from their media induced trance and see the political and economic oppression that is crushing their freedom of expression and livelihoods.

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 11 years ago

One would hope there would be mass protests if this war breaks out and Israel would be marginalized so thourghly that it forces a settlelment to the palestinian situation but for some reason I doubt it.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Re. Iran - some hard facts ... may bring some 'Light' to matters, rather than all the unpleasant 'Heat' being generated by the constant fear and loathing & WAR-mongering :

a) Iran has The World's 3rd Largest known 'Total' & 2nd Largest 'Liquid' Oil Reserves : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Iran ,

b) Iran has The Worlds 2nd Largest known Gas Reserves : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_reserves_in_Iran

c) Further consider and cogitate upon the fact that in Feb. 2008, Iran opened a Hydro-Carbon Bourse at The Kish Island Mercantile Exchange (see http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11613.htm and also http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28646.htm ) - trading in a basket of currencies, including Euros, Roubles, Yuan and Iranian Rial BUT NOT in U$ Dollar$ and thereby challenging both Reserve Currency, Dollar "HegeMoney" as well as the Monopoly of the existing Oil and Petroleum Bourses.

d) The Iranian Central Bank is State Controlled & Entirely Government Owned and NOT Privately Owned { http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-currents/2011/12/15/senate-passes-sanctions-on-irans-central-bank/?mod=google_news_blog & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_of_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran } . Thus do 'a-d' here actually constitute the Real "Casus Belli" ?!

e) The same NeoCon, Neo-Colonial, Paleo-Imperial WARMONGERS who beat the drums for The Unconscionable, Illegal & Immoral WAR on Iraq [where The Only "WMD" = Words of Mass Deception !!] are now beating the Drums of War and this time Iran is in the Imperial crosshairs. Pls. Research PNAC [eg http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC etc.]


Also perhaps see the documentary film, "WHY WE FIGHT ; What are the forces that shape and propel American militarism ?"

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

China and Iran are so closely tied now, that it would take a huge shift in interanational relations before any bombing could occur in the southeast of Asia.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Reasons for WAR on Iran are just more 'W.M.D.' :


cave - bellum se ipsum alet ...

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 11 years ago

Hypothetical situation. Israel attacks Iran, but Iran does not retaliate directly against Israel. Instead, Iran sinks several of it's super tankers and container ships in strategic waterways such as the Strait of Hormuz, the Strait of bab el Mandeb seperating the Red Sea from the Gulf of Aden and in the Red Sea and Mediterranean Sea approachs to the Suez Canal. Imagine the worldwide financial chaos when the world discovers that it has been cutoff from the worlds three largest oil reserves! Even if the US, Saudi Arabia and Egypt were able to clear the Suez Canal in a week the world economy would be shaken to it's core! And what would happen to the Canal if the Egyptian people were to rise up in solidarity with the Iranian Government? How much sympathy might Israel lose from countries around the world after such a move? One final hypothetical question for Muttley, Barky and Nutsandyahoos. If after you bomb the hell out of Iran and it is discovered that there was no nuclear weapons program in progress. Exactly what are you going to say to the people of the U.S. and Israel? And the people of the world for that matter? Can you say pariah, rogue state, state sponsors of terrorism, warmongers, how bout, all of the above!

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 11 years ago

After the American invasion of Iraq, the Bush regime claimed the WMD had been whisked away to some mysterious land of the lost. I imagine the Israelis and American government will come up with a similar transparent excuse.

There's really no need to offer excuses anymore. The rest of the world pretty well recognizes American imperialism by any other name.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

It's gone past imperialism. It's rape, murder and pillage.

There's not even an attempt to present it as being civilized. The bulk of the population is either self-drugged, or otherwise occupied. Nobody seems to give a shit. Just keep the power on, and tele talking.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 11 years ago

I once thought the entire American imperialistic adventure since World War 2 was some type of Machiavellian scheme. Now, however, I just believe the imperial Presidency madly passes war from one generation to the next to keep the ships of Yankee trade sailing.

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

I think there are politicians that are looking for a distraction. Just as the Argentines were looking for a distraction during their social unrest in the 80s, they started the Falkland island war.

Economic collapse usually means war, for various reasons. This could turn out very badly. Russia has committed force to an incursion, and china is not happy about it either. If these fools are stupid enough to start a war, it would likely create an economic war against the dollar / collapse, then possibly a hot war. With nukes, that could suck.

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 11 years ago

We live in dangerous times.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

We live in the same times as anyone has lived. The fact that people sit around allowing others to commit heinous crimes without batting an eyelid makes us the most unfeeling bunch of arseholes ever living on earth.

[-] 1 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

They're going to start WWIII... Unfuckingbelievable. How many people have to suffer for these fools.



If you haven't seen it, Rick Steves did an awesome show on Iran. There was a TED talk and PBS travel show (him) there very recently. Wonderful people. It's absolutely heartbreaking what these fuckers are doing.

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 11 years ago

The majority of people in Iran are great just like the majority of Americans. The problem is how do a hand full of war criminals, both here and abroad, always get into positions of power and bring the world into the terror and savagery of war?

Patriotism does, the foulest word in any language. That single word held high blinds every concept of decency and humanity and instead glorifies death and destruction.

Many take pride in their soldiers, but I hold all of them, worldwide, in the utmost contempt!

[-] 2 points by kaiserw (211) 11 years ago

I used to be a soldier, but I left out of protest to the Iraq war. Soldiers have a place, like the Swiss used to maintain, for protection of the country, and community against outside aggression. Unfortunately, our military is an empire of mercenaries, eerily similar to the Roman empire. Chalmers Johnson wrote 3 wonderful books based on the American Empire, and he's got some awesome interviews on Youtube. His books are: Blowback, Sorrows of Empire, and Nemesis.

"The man who prefers his country before any other duty shows the same spirit as the man who surrenders every right to the state. They both deny that right is superior to authority." Lord Acton

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 11 years ago

One more time I'd like to say thank you, for having the courage to do the right thing. Some people think the greatest soldiers were Sergeant York or Audie Murphy, both the most decorated of their eras. But in my opinion the bravest are those who refuse to cooperate with injustice, no matter the cost, no matter how much society ridicules and despises them, they are the true heroes, who without we would be less than animals.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 11 years ago

I admire your decision and method of protest. If only more would stop blindly following orders and follow common sense instead, this world would be a much nicer place.

Like the Acton quote. Still working on the Johnson link. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Don't screw with your own mind.

The Patriot Act was more about extremist fascism than anything tabled before in congress before that time.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 11 years ago

The Patriot Act is one of many poisoned fruits harvested after the terror attacks on 9/11/01.The Patriot Act itself had been already constructed and hanging around since at least the Clinton Administration,and is thought to have been created during the First Bush Administration.It had been delayed in being introduced to the Congress on account of it being...entirely unconstitutional and ballot box poison.The main obstacles to its success in the senate were named-Paul Wellstone,Sam Daschle and Pat Lehy.On 9/18/01,two of these obstacles were dealt with when letters containing weapons-grade anthrax were mailed to the congressional offices of Senators Daschle and Lehy.The other impediment was removed when Paul Wellstone died in a plane crash on 10/25/02, along with family members,staff and the crew of the plane.The origin of the Anthrax was later determined to be a US gov't laboratory and the plane crash was highly suspicious,the event being characterized by numerous unexplained circumstances such as-no apparent cause,a super hot conflagration which burned for days,and an inexplicable failure of GPS units not only on board the downed plane,but also experienced by crews on other planes in the area.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 11 years ago

Thankyou. It seems we are only just scratching the surface of this real "axis of evil". Like the guy said, "how deep does the rabbit hole go?"