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Forum Post: The Bigger Picture of That for Which We Double Amputees Should Stand

Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 7:31 p.m. EST by joseph (6)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

First of all, prepare for the text wall. (TL;DR at the bottom)

I posted all this on the facebook groups, but it seems discussion isn't really the main focus there, so here I am. I'm not really in a position to be able to contribute to this movement physically at the moment, but I feel a really strong conviction to put my ideas out there in hopes that someone with more skill and better position can expound/expand on them and put them to some use. Feel free to pick them apart, contemplate them, be confused, laugh at me, scoff, move on, what have you.

Note: All of what I have to say is in the first two comments way at the bottom.



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[-] 1 points by joseph (6) 12 years ago

PS. thanks for continually calling me a jerk for having a lot to say. This forum really needs to be better designed.

Second, this movement really needs to congeal what it is that it stands for (I know, a lot of you guys are working on this) before it gets hijacked by something that will turn it into something it wasn't meant to be. The most popular faction of the movement is "Occupy Wall St." This is what all the news media talk about, and they characterize a few things about us, none of which we should allow to creep into our own thoughts of what we stand for:

A) That we are simply against Wall Street and mad because of the bailouts. This isn't a good thing. We can't just be "against" something. We need to be "for" something, and it needs to be loud and clear and on nearly every sign everyone may hold. What I feel it should be and why, I'll get to later.

B) That we are "the left" response to the Tea Party. No! No! NO! DO NOT let them ingrain this into your or the general public's way of perceiving us. We shouldn't be related to the Tea Party in any way, even by that of an analogue. But, furthermore, we shouldn't be part of "the left". We need to stand for greater change than any "rights" or "lefts" could possibly hope to allow. If anything, we are Double Amputees. Also, at least unequivocally state that we are anything but "pro-big government" so Fox News and all the right-winged goonies will have one less talking point to ignite fervor from their base against us.

Now, onto the meat.

Over the past several decades,industry (corporate powers) + military have had much (if not total) dictation over this country's foreign and domestic decisions. It has slowly been draining this country and the lands beyond, and also poisoning the philosophies of a lot of the rest of the world. That's the main thing I think we all feel internally, and why Wall Street was a natural place around which the movement could first unite.

The best change we could hope for and, I think, the one we should rally toward is (yes, I've seen this elsewhere on here) to have lobbyists and corporate political donations done away with. These aspects of our governmental machine are way too exploitable, and there's no way our founding fathers had the system we find today in mind. It's a circus and a joke and a seething shame.

Just like with the separation of church and state, just like with the abolition of slavery, just like with giving women the right to vote and expanding their equality of treatment, just like civil rights, if we attain this goal, it won't be the end of the struggle for what America is supposed to stand for, or that of humanity. The struggle will always continue.

It may very well be America's fate to die like a clueless rockstar, with there being so many apathetic and cynical mindsets and such a harsh division of its people over nonsense and charades. Contrary to our beliefs, though, humanity wouldn't end with the death of the US as we currently know it, even though we seem to have absorbed into our beliefs that we are "the chosen ones". Hell, it could actually do the world and ourselves some good, and God knows we deserve it, too. (It's not coincidence that a good portion of the world has begun to abhor the idea of us.) Ancient Rome fell, and the world didn't end, though the people of that dynasty no doubt felt they were the chosen ones as well. The world learned a lot of things from Rome, in fact, and they will no doubt learn some things from us as well, when it's all said and done. Epic downfalls have many lessons to teach to our descendents.

But the separation of very large estates and the state should be what is sought. I see it as really no different than having church and state combined. It turns our government an institution that is not really of the people. . . at all. It's just a fundamental thing that must be tackled before deciding all the nitty-gritty of the specific things that also need to be done--like changing this tax rate to this %, giving us better healthcare, so on and so forth.

[-] 1 points by joseph (6) 12 years ago

But it will likely require a generational shift in the government in addition to the backing of this movement (unless the movement really does become huge), since those who are on Capitol Hill now grew up in an era where they were conditioned into believing that that their convictions are somehow sacred, and that those who disagree with them are morally inferior. Add to that the fact that they also get caught up in the circus of our political system and are pressured by those that pay for virtually all of their campaign funding. And they have to spit out and stand by non-sensical ideology without budging in order to keep their office, when all the districts have been redrawn for the very purpose of keeping incumbents in office more easily, to the point they are actually rewarded for this spewing this BS ideology. They also have to worry about re-election by these constituents who have been zoned into ideal ideological havens, which can cause them not to vote on numerous bills and never get anything done. Not to mention that throughout history people in high authoritative positions such as government officials and corporate execs tend to be on the psychopathic side (the true definition of the condition/state of mind/what have you). To put it frankly, there's just too much baloney, times 1000, for the government to govern effectively and make the adaptations that are necessary to deal with this rapidly changing world.

So fixing all the things in that last paragraph should be the secondary focus, if we can schism the corporate tumor off of our government (can't really do much about the psychopath thing, though).

Also, I am tired of hearing this "you right-winged moron" and "you liberal socialist" nonsense. It's all playing right into the cards. We are not each other's enemies, but our strongest allies.

Why are we so divided on the whole? It's probably pretty common sense, if you think about it, but I'll post a link in a different thread momentarily ( http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=294421993905616&topic=517 ) that will pinpoint the exact reasons, scientifically.

Basically, our corporate-government conglomerate obviously already knows by now that we will believe what we want to believe, and that they just have to present two opposing sides and use things like religion to have us endlessly bickering with each other and not really uniting to our potential for any cause, whatever it may be. It truly is ridiculous what some people believe that is spewed out in the news.

And ofc, these bastard children of corporations and politics--whether it be Fox, MSNBC, CNN, or only some of them--are the front and center stage for this. Seriously, when Fox started behaving as it does now back at the time of the 2000 election, I didn't know what to think (unless it was like that beforehand and I just didn't pay attention). Thanks, Karl Rove! (just an assumption for the lulz there)

The reason all of this is so hard to overcome and that we are so deluded as a whole is like this: Think like we are looking out a window at a circus that is going on out there. We cannot focus on the glass itself to recognize it is there and causing our problems. It's keeping us from actually going out to the circus to make it a more respectable and true government, because we are just so damned intent on gazing out beyond it and being caught up in all the pageantry of all the pretty talking points. You get the idea. Can't see the forest through the trees, etc. But I've been thrilled to see dialogue like this popping up more and more lately, so the idea is definitely making its way around.

But, seriously, the chance of us doing anything to alter the status quo in the nearest possible future may be drawing short if the government pushes the internet blacklisting bill. I'm not saying it will or what a bill that is passed would contain or implicate, but it is a real possibility. It's ironic how we slam countries like China and North Korea for censorship and yet set ourselves up to have the possibilities of the same thing come about here in the future. You know damned well that this sort of thing we are attempting now is the biggest threat the companies have to losing dictation over our government, and that they would want to do everything they can to slim our ability to lessen their power. The internet is obviously the thing that unites us as an entity, so if the companies get their way and it is sanctioned before we can truly coalesce, it could be damning for the short term of our movement. If such a bill gets passed do you think it wouldn't be exploited at some point in the future? It's hard to speculate, but I think as many things as possible should be considered, as any could be what we find ourselves faced with.

In conclusion, even if we get these kinks in our government that I mentioned ironed out, it's only the next chapter in the continuing of the struggle, for our country and for humanity. There's a lot of work that lies ahead of us.

TL;DL There should be a separation of very large estates and the state.