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Forum Post: The Answer: Bitcoin

Posted 3 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 7:52 p.m. EST by brecknock (23) from Regina, SK
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The OWS movement is a continuation of the Arab Spring. Rather than tyrannical political oppression there is a revolt surrounding economic repression and political unfairness. The discontent is justified but the issue is being framed incorrectly as the real issue at stake is the anachronisms of our economic and political systems to be functional in a global information age. The words of the wise Canadian sage Marshall McCloughen should be heeded "the medium is the message" for if solutions are to be sought they will not come out of the political and economic sectors but from the new online global community.

Here is why and how. The basic problem with the financial system is how very sophisticated financial transactions fail to add value to the process of business and as such are exploitative. If you are among the elite who can actually understand the intricacies of quantum mechanics, derivatives and collateral debt obligations you cannot aid in fixing the system because you are already profiting from it. Simply, these transactions are too complex for regulators; they are not illegal but creative mechanisms to make money on transactions.

Well what is this based upon? None of these mechanisms can exist without the compliance of fractional banking. This system at best is supported in a convention on the value of currency, which is why it is illegal to start a run on a bank. The legislators empower this system as it all utilizes sovereign currency which allows them to set the fractional reserve/lending rates. Looking for answers within this system are at odds with the system itself. The real answer must lie outside of this system and I posit that it may through non-sovereign currencies and electronic ones at that.

Because there is already a medium of exchange in bitcoin whereby you can exchange your bitcoins for dollars there exists in the power of the Occupy Wall Street movement the ability to rewrite money.

If everyone supporting the OWS movement puts $10 into bitcoin the exchange rate will go from 1-$4.30 to 1-$50. This will be the first example of non-sovereign currency going viral and the rush will not stop. Because of the returns available there will be a rush to invest...early adapters will not only invest they will convert all assets to the new medium of exchange as the standard sovereign currencies devalue. finally institutional investors will follow suit and last but not least sovereign governments.

This change will disenfranchise the 1% so identified with the movement more than any other group. Finally when sovereign nations are forced into converting they will not have a ready means of taxation whereby a Robin hood or transaction tax may be implemented causing speculation to pay for its participation in the economic process.

Smarter people than me please expand on this thread but remember the ideal of viral is very new and there are no reasons that this would not be a solution.

30 Comments

30 Comments


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[-] 1 points by Febs (824) from Plymouth Meeting, PA 2 years ago

SolidCoin is more secure.

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 2 years ago

I agree and I have already started to leave the USD moving into Bitcoin. I'm not doing this to speculate or make money. I'm doing this as an "enlightened disengagement". Making a personal decision to leave a corrupt system, moving to a more ethical system.

One, of the people, not centrally planned by the so called elite. I don't expect everyone to do the same, but I do expect more people to do what I'm doing as they wake up and attempt to unplug from this matrix.

[-] 1 points by Etienne (2) 2 years ago

The timing couldn't be better.

The value of Bitcoins did not "crash" it just pulled back from a speculative bubble produced by technologically ignorant oportunists. Bitcoin's value was just 15 cents around last year's end, and it's currently trading at USD 3,2

http://blog.bitcoinwatch.com/2011/10/october-21-2011-bitcoin-charts-and-bitcoin-price-analysis-bubble-or-no-bubble/

On the other hand, the fact that several online bitcoin "wallets" or banks were either hacked or plain old scams doesn't mean that OWS must suffer that fate. Money is money, and if you put it in the wrong hands, it's gone. It's just a matter of solving the wallet file issue in a distributed manner. There are some rough edges to the software that can be improved, no doubt. But that is all, the technology is there and it's safe if you make it safe.

I'd love to see a Bitcoin demonstration right there on the plaza! To let the people know that there is a way of exchanging value among people around the world without middle men can be a tipping point IMHO.

Bitcoin is OPEN SOURCE AND PEER TO PEER. Just as unstoppable as the peaceful rEvolution that's going on in the world as I write these lines.

Peace!

[-] 1 points by gwynplaine (8) 3 years ago

anyone considering this should consider the fact that bitcoin is a speculative investment with bagholders like any other currency. this can be a pump and dump more than anything else.

also there are no regulatory protections. your bitcoins are held online in exchanges and the guys operating the exchanges can just shut up shop and keep all your money. don't think it's true?

http://buttcoin.org/the-bitcoin-week-in-review-the-beginning-of-the-end

"MyBitcoin, the largest online “bank” for bitcoins, simply vanished from the net. They have been around for quite a while but have always seemed a little shady. Like, having a private whois on the domain and using parts of their website through the Tor network. Despite all this, a very large amount of people had their wallets in MyBitcoins, including Bruce Wagner, the owner of OnlyOneTV, producer of “The Bitcoin Show” and hosting the Bitcoin Conference who personally lost 25k bitcoins ($250k USD). Ironically, the 3 restaurants accepting bitcoins as payments also stored their wallets in MyBitcoin. The FBI was notified (lol), but the owner is believed to be living in Barbados currently but there’s no chance in hell anyone will or care to find him."

these guys are scammers like the bankers. new systems need good regulatory oversight.

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 2 years ago

By the way, the default storage of Bitcoin is in your own personal wallet. You have to send them to exchanges or central wallet services.

Looking over the last few years, how well has this regulatory system protected your interests?

These regulators are not fairy godmothers! It seems they are bankers in disguise.

Don't blame Bitcoin for any specific human being's bad behavior. No one is saying that Bitcoin can change human behavior!

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 2 years ago

Your Bitcoins are NOT held online unless you CHOOSE to do so. I highly recommend that you keep them in your own digital wallet! Not doing so, requires a high level of trust and like you mention MyBitcoin, that amounted to individuals trusting an anonymous stranger. Not very smart is it?

Bitcoin, and crypto-currency in general imposes a higher level of discipline than average computer users are used to. Understanding security is essential, we are talking storing real money digitally now. This is different than storing documents, pictures, and email - discipline and study. Financial liberty and independence is not free. It requires work, Not for the lazy and uninformed!

Don't believe everything you read (especially in this forum). Do your home work and make your own informed decisions. Many people who do not understand Bitcoin (and it is hard to get your head around it) announce a lot of incorrect statements and some knowingly promote disinformation. Again do your own research and make your own decisions!

[-] 1 points by Coreupt (294) 3 years ago

Is legality an issue? Why cant the 1% but lots of bitcoins? Other than those questions I have been a bitcoin fan for a while.

[-] 1 points by technoviking (484) 3 years ago

value of bitcoin has crashed over the past few months.

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 2 years ago

Don't think of it as a stock or get-rich-quick scheme! The so called crash is a result of that type of thinking. Instead, think of it as a currency. Under that line of thinking, what other currency in the world today has a higher value?

[-] 1 points by commonsense11 (195) 3 years ago

There will always be the have and the have nots. I take you have a fast computer you can leave unattended that will earn you lots of these Bitcoins putting you into the top 1%. Deplorable. This is not a solution only a shifting of problems.

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 2 years ago

You sound angry. What's wrong?

[-] 1 points by libertarianincle (312) from Cleveland, OH 3 years ago

I think you need to do some research on what constitutes "money". I would start here:

http://mises.org/rothbard/rothmoney.pdf

[-] 1 points by chrischrischris (143) 3 years ago

So... what exactly does moving from one currency to another solve?

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 2 years ago

You are moving from a currency controlled by the 1% - to one that's not!

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 3 years ago

I wonder why Mayer Amschel Rothschild said:

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws."

Control of the money is what the 1% have through the Federal Reserve and fractional banking system. They create money from nothing and control everything by controlling our corrupt monetary system.

R. Buckminster Fuller once said: "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."

Bitcoin makes the 1% obsolete!

[-] 1 points by chrischrischris (143) 3 years ago

Is the only difference in that we move away from a fungible currency into a currency that has a tracking number?

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 3 years ago

My good friend Johnny Silver Bear explains it well here:

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/natureofmoney.html

To understand the extent of the fraud associated with the Federal Reserve and fiat banking, I recommend that you read a book titled The Creature from Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin.

[-] 1 points by chrischrischris (143) 3 years ago

I just don't buy into the propaganda and conspiracy theories.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 3 years ago

As soon as I get a phone number (I don't have a cellphone right now) I'm putting $15 into BitCoins just to see what happens.

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 3 years ago

This is so incredibly true.

Printing imaginary money is impossible with bitcoins. There are a certain number of bitcoins, and they have a unique identity.

Fractional banking is transparent with bitcoins. You know exactly how much the bank has on reserve, because bitcoins are traceable by their very nature. Fractional reserve banking is, in fact, possible with bitcoins, but it is a bit complicated and does involve promissory notes. You know when you're being handed a promissory note by a bank instead of a bitcoin.

Laundering money is impossible for the same reason - you know every transaction every bitcoin has been in.

Mastercard, Visa, and Paypal have all attempted to suppress bitcoins. Something must be special about them.

By the way, if there is suddenly huge funding for the study of quantum computers, this is quite possibly the reason.

[-] 1 points by libertarianincle (312) from Cleveland, OH 3 years ago

How again is bit coins NOT fiat currency?

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 3 years ago

There is no inherent value in a bitcoin, so yes, it is fiat currency. Perhaps the silver-backed dollar is a good alternative too, if we really don't want a fiat currency.

[-] 2 points by hairlessOrphan (522) 3 years ago

There really isn't anything wrong with fiat currency qua fiat currency. Gold was also a fiat currency - simply put, there was nothing backing gold. The only value gold had was what the people using it attributed to it.

What intrinsic value does gold have? The only thing I can think of is it's a pretty good conductor of electricity.

When Paulies gabble about "centuries of economic law" defining value, they think they are talking about gold, but they are really making the argument that we should return to a monetary system that uses cowrie shells. Historically, the cowrie shell has a longer, broader, and richer history as currency than gold.

[-] 1 points by maxkoda (52) 2 years ago

I would argue that there is intrinsic value to Bitcoin because of it's unique characteristics: + near instant transactions (requires about 10-minutes for full confirmation. This is the cost paid to ensure no double spending) + free to use (no minimum deposit, no minimum balance) + fully transparent and auditable + little or no transaction fees + not centrally controlled and can not be fraudulently manipulated. + anonymity (not complete but can be untraceable when extended with technology such as "Open Transactions). + users can have multiple accounts + limited supply. + requires no third party payment processor. + highly secure encryption (beyond that of the current banking industry) ...

These characteristics are of value to me! Paper dollars don't have these very valuable characteristics. So I disagree when people say that Bitcoin has no real value (knowing that the value is relative to the observer).

[-] 1 points by libertarianincle (312) from Cleveland, OH 3 years ago

Now you are talking.

[-] 1 points by brecknock (23) from Regina, SK 3 years ago

ok so you accept the thesis how do we make it go viral?

[-] 1 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 3 years ago

I don't want to make it go viral. Enough speculation, as people have replied to you in other threads.

[-] 0 points by velveeta (230) 2 years ago

at some point the Feds are going to have to introduce eCash, or an electric dollar, issued or "printed" if you will, only by the Feds