Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: The 16th Amendment, The Federal Reserve, and gutless politicians

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 10, 2012, 9:15 p.m. EST by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

(From Infoplease "History of the Income Tax in the United States")

"In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. The amendment gave Congress legal authority to tax income and resulted in a revenue law that taxed incomes of both individuals and corporations."

(From Wikipedia "Federal Reserve System")

"... was created on December 23, 1913 with the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act"

Hmmmmm...coincidence?

Now the truth of the matter is, politicians knew that the 16th amendment would be very unpopular with the voting public and with corporations. Since they also knew that the 16th amendment would likely never be repealed, they needed a way to generate revenue beyond what the public was willing to pay by increasing taxes. So...voila!... The international bankers sold them on the idea of a central banking system which would allow Congress to borrow instead of tax...and the Fed was born. Americans didn't then know (and until recently largely didn't care) to pay attention to Congress borrowing from the Fed. As long as their paycheck wasn't/isn't impacted by raising taxes, Americans were/are largely oblivious.

Until now.

(From Wikipedia "United States public debt")

"As is apparent from the chart, a little less than half of the total national debt is owed to the "Federal Reserve and intragovernmental holdings". (about 47% as of Sept 2008)

Look at who actually owns the Fed (a little complicated but will illustrate my point)

http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

American politicians are gutless wonders. They knew starting in 1913 that America would one day likely end up with an unimaginably large debt. And to who would they owe that debt? From the above link please notice that many of the Fed owners are household names. Rothschild, Morgan, Lehman Brothers, Rockefeller, and many others you probably never heard of.

One could argue that the politicians were naive and intended to pay back the loans from the Fed. But only if you were naive would you believe that the simultaneous passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913 and the creation of the Fed in 1913 was nothing more than a curious accident.

And thus the American Corporatocracy was born.

As Paul Harvey used to say, "...now you know the rest of the story".

81 Comments

81 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

"All money is created in the form of debt to the privately owned banking cartel. Imagine if you could create money out of thin air. Imagine you have the credit cards of all the nations in your pocket. Your first impulse is to lend money to your nominees so they can buy most of the world's real wealth for you. Your second impulse is to establish a totalitarian system ("world government" globalization) to prevent any nation from challenging this system or defaulting on their "debt" to you. To make them accept "world government," you need to weaken them by having them fight among themselves, run up huge debts for armaments (which you will sell them), kill off the cream of their manhood, and become demoralized and decadent. You accomplish this through your ownership of politicians and the press and your control of MI-6, CIA who will carry out assassinations and acts of terror. This is the real history of the last 300 years." - Henry Makow

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications, whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I was aware of the Rockefeller quote but not the Makow quote. Thanks for providing it.

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

Greek Film Shows Way Out of Debt Bind

"Debtocracy" a 75-minute documentary made for $15K has inflamed popular resistance in Greece by casting the debt crisis in a new light.

Seen on the Internet by over a million Greeks, the film convincingly argues that the debt is a neo-liberal ("Economic Hitman") scam and there are strong precedents for repudiating it.

Watch full length film with subtitiles - click link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKpxPo-lInk

http://www.henrymakow.com/greekfilmmakescase.html

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

You are welcome.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I finally was able to watch all of "Inside Job" in it's entirety. Quite simply, there is no video anywhere, that I have seen, that surpasses this expose' of Wall Street greed, global corruption, and sociopathic displays of egomania. The film is, admittedly, a bit one-sided, but that is due to it's holy mission of driving home in utter clarity and completely unambiguous terms the blatantly criminal and continuing remorseless behavior of these utterly dangerous and reckless individuals who are hell-bent on putting themselves first and foremost above the welfare of the entire world. They deserve much worse than fines and jail-time. I leave it to your own judgement as to what they deserve. My comments on that are not subject to public disclosure.

This film just goes to show that if people think they can get away with something, then they are going to try to get away with it. These types are devoid of any morality. They are so completely alien to me that I would probably have more in common with real aliens than with them. This film raises very serious questions in my mind like:

1) How on this earth do people like this rise to positions of power and influence in the first place? These people should be meticulously studied to understand the psychological and sociological processes of their minds and what leads to their ascendancy into positions of influence whereby national and world economies can be destroyed.

2) Why does our socio/political/economic system allow these types to dominate the entire framework of our Corporatocracy? Could any of them be classified as Type-B personalities? I seriously doubt it. What is it about these Type-A maniacs that has allowed them to rise and maintain such commanding positions of influence and power for not only decades, but hundreds, and even thousands of years? What in the world is wrong with humanity that we repeatedly allow this to happen decade after decade, century after century, millennia after millennia?

This film should be required viewing for every adult on the planet. The sad thing is, even if it were mandated, I'm afraid most people would just shrug their shoulders, toss up their hands and say "Well, what can I do about it? It is all too depressing. I have enough problems just making a living, paying bills, and raising my kids. I don't have any time to devote to this, and I wouldn't know what to do anyway."

How does Occupy overcome such a seemingly overwhelming obstacle/attitude on the part of the average American citizen?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Thanks for all of your links. I will order "Web of Debt".  I started watching "Inside Job" and got about 20 minutes into it, then my video app crapped out and wouldn't replay right then. I have been meaning to watch the whole thing, and I will, but just haven't got to it yet. 

Sounds like you're way ahead of the average American when it comes to understanding the Great Evil of the world.

"The love of money is the root of ALL evil." -- JC

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 1 year ago

more and more I am realizing that all of this is a spiritual battle . . ALL who call upon the name of JESUS shall be saved !

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Corporatocracy or a .......................................

Kleptocracy, alternatively cleptocracy or kleptarchy, (from Greek: κλέπτης - kleptēs, "thief"[1] and κράτος - kratos, "power, rule",[2] hence "rule by thieves") is a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often without pretense of honest service. This type of government corruption is often achieved by the embezzlement of state funds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

;(

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Sounds about the same to me. Below is description of Corporatocracy from Wikipedia. For ease of reading, I have removed the bracketed reference numbers. If you wish to see the sources, please go to the actual Wikipedia site and refer to them there.

==========

Corporatocracy is an imprecise pejorative term describing a situation in which corporate bodies interact with sovereign power in an unhealthy alignment between business and political power.

It describes an elite, sometimes termed the "1 percent", which maintains ties between business and government, sometimes by lobbying efforts or funding political advertising campaigns, or providing bailouts when corporations are seen as too big to fail, for the purpose of controlling government and dictating policy to serve its financial interests.

It is a negative term, likened pejoratively to cancer, fascism, and Orwellianism, perhaps because, according to this view, business-government ties are seen as secretive, lacking transparency and accountability.

The term has been used to describe what some see as economic exploitation, and has been used to explain bank bailouts, excessive pay for CEOs, as well as generalized complaints such as the plundering of national treasuries, people, and natural resources.

It has been used by critics of globalization, sometimes in conjunction with criticism of the World Bank or unfair lending practices, as well as criticism of free trade agreements which, according to these claims, move high-paying jobs overseas.

Corporatocracy is viewed as anti-democratic or opposed to democracy or used to describe situations in which democracy has been manipulated negatively, sometimes resulting in a passive citizenry and subservient media.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

I knew I was splitting hairs when I posted. I guess one identifies 'who' they are and the other describes 'what' they do. I concede - Same difference. I think for me it's the descriptor "rule by thieves" that caught my eye, but both reflect our current state of affairs ...................... I just have a hard time pronouncing Corporatocracy.

Cheers :)

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

:) Actually, I like the way Corporatocracy rolls off my tongue :)

[-] 2 points by votersway (15) 2 years ago

The big problems are two: the monopoly and the secrecy of the Fed. This leads to unaccountability and corruption. The government has been completely corrupted by this system.

votersway.com

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Yes, I have always been particularly concerned about the unaccountability part of it. I must admit that I don't know a lot of detail about the Fed yet...but I am learning more and more every day.

[-] 2 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

"Some people think that the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders."

– The Honorable Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee in the 1930s

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10489

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 1 year ago

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild."

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Ironic how that quote applies as much, or even more, today, as it did then. Since TPTB use the same methodology (money control) as their predecessors from the past - you'd think we'd be the wiser.

"I am afraid that the ordinary citizen will not like to be told that the banks can and do create and destroy money. And they who control the credit of a nation direct the policy of governments, and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people."

~Richard McKenna~

Cheers :)

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 1 year ago

great Anthony Sutton site here:

http://bigeye.com/antonysutton.htm

More and more I see that our battle is spiritual.

great site here:

http://www.JosephPrince.org

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 1 year ago

Thanks PC - good stuff !!

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 1 year ago

you are welcome ;)

[-] 1 points by ciceroantonius (1) 1 year ago

What did you notice about the last names? Guess? Lehman, Warburg, Rothchild? Ring a bell. More hints, Schwartz, Bloomberg, -burg, -man, -berg. Still need another hint? Israel? United Stated of Israel? Who is in control of everything financial, educational, and news related in this country? WE have no freedom of press anymore.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Good post.

Seek the truth. Know the heart of the problem/enemy.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Correct. If you don't know the cause of the problem, how can you craft a solution?

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

many of the government employees that ran up the debt are wealthy, when change comes, we could seize their assets, and their decendants assets for running up the debt. What else would be just and fair to us, who did nothing to run up the debt?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Personally, I am not an advocate of repeating a financial French Revolution, where the French Aristocracy were seized and guillotined. As I have said before, I really don't blame people for using a system to their fullest advantage. Our Corporatocracy is a humongous machine. People within it are just cogs in the machine doing their thing. The wealthiest 0.1% just understand how the machine operates a whole lot better than the rest of us do. It's the system that needs to be reformed/replaced. Change the rules of the game to make the game fair for all and the Aristocracy will "bleed out" naturally.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

here's some very good links from The St. Louis Fed

The St. Louis Fed’s FRED® (Federal Reserve Economic Data), is Fantastic… this tool will allow you to build your own custom charts from their data banks…

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/

—————————————————-

The St. Louis Fed is home to FRED® (Federal Reserve Economic Data), a publicly available database of more than 20,000 U.S. economic time series. The charts in this section and the publications listed below make select FRED data series related to the credit crisis readily available. For data and information about the recession, see the St. Louis Fed’s Tracking the Global Economy web site.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/

—————————————————–

Tracking the Global Economy :: http://research.stlouisfed.org/economy/

Welcome to “Tracking the Global Economy,” a collection of charts reporting the current trends for several economic indicators. The charts are designed to provide accurate and useful information on the current economic environment and behavior of economic data around business cycle turning points.

For additional details, see Understanding the “Tracking the Global Economy” Charts.

——————————————–

The Financial Crisis Timeline :: http://timeline.stlouisfed.org/

and, http://timeline.stlouisfed.org/index.cfm?p=timeline

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Brad, this data is great! Thanks for providing it.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

yeah.... amazingly transparent... huh ?.... it looks like some new young ideas have infiltrated the evil empire.. ;)

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

And here is the video that inspired me to do a little research and to create this OP. 8m51s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe0fGXzKb1o

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

UD, I'm not sure I entirely agree with the video.... but I admit I do not fully understand it yet...

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Out of curiosity, what do you not agree with? Bear in mind, the authors of it are obviously not big fans of the Fed (I'm not either) and they do not exactly engage in unbiased reporting. Nevertheless, I think they have hit on the essence of some of the things that are wrong with the Fed system.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I'm just not sure they are currently as evil as most seem to think .... I used to think so ... but as Iearn more ... I'm starting to wonder .... how-ever I won't make that stand until I know ...

however I do believe that there are many banks involved that will do ANYTHING for profit ...

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I wonder what truly objective information is available about the Fed that could explain what they are all about pro and con? I don't think they are necessarily all bad either, but I too need to know what they have really done over the decades that could not have been done by the government independent of a central bank. The country did not have a central banking system between Andrew Jackson, who abolished the first central bank, and Woodrow Wilson who ushered in the Fed. That was 80 years without a central bank. So, from a historical perspective, a central bank didn't exist between those times and the government got along fine (apparently).

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

crime, greed, apathy & corruption is what's killing the middle & lower class economy... I don't believe that there is any other rule fit's all that can be applied to any group

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Would you be in favor of the US Government absorbing the Fed into it as another Department? We have Departments of Defense, Education, Commerce, Agriculture, Homeland Security, etc....15 in all. How about making the Fed the Department of Economics and Finance?

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

Department of the Trasury - perhaps a fourth branch of government - we have three at the present time, Executive, Legislative, Judicial.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Why a 4th branch instead of another Dept. ?

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

Due to the power that stems from creation and control of currency, perhaps a fourth branch of government would be appropriate. Of course, that might require at the very least, an ammendment to the Constitution. However, returning the duties of the Federal Reserve System to the Department of the Treasury would require nothing more than a bill to repeal the fradulent Federal Reserve Act.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Huh. Ok, I see your reasoning. Yes, pretty sure creating a 4th branch of government would require pretty significant amendment and detailing out what that 4th branch could and couldn't do. In the Constitution, the 3 other branches are spelled out in detail as to their powers and limitations.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

not to support the mess that the Fed & the Treasury's irresponsibility has gotten us into ....

We have to acknowledge that Fractional reserve lending ... is just that ... another form of credit .... personally I believe that w/o it or something to replace it ... 3rd world development would be greatly stalled ....

so it does have it's merits ... however the corruption and abuse must be removed ... and further ... why is the debt passed on to the people ... when the benefits are given to the banks ? ...

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

in reply to PublicCurrency's post ....

It's my understanding that the Fed only suggests to the Treasury what to print ... the decision whether or not to print is up to the Treasury

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

I am not sure how the Treasury is to blame as they only print money as directed by the Fed.

Fractional Reserve Lending is the source of our money supply. The problem is that creation and regulation of our currency and credit is privately controlled. And the private banks benefit by receiving interest on all the money which they "create out of thin air."

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money.” – Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England (appointed 1928). Reputed to be the 2nd wealthiest man in England at that time.

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks…will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. – Thomas Jefferson in the debate over the Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809)

If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations. - Andrew Jackson

The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity. -Abraham Lincoln

Issue of currency should be lodged with the government and be protected from domination by Wall Street. We are opposed to…provisions [which] would place our currency and credit system in private hands. – Theodore Roosevelt

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

really ?

that would not make the number of loans in american dollars by banks go away

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

Over time, whoever controls the money system, controls the nation.

The creation and regulation of our currency has they have been tasked to Congress by the United States Constitution.

Fractional reserve lending by private banks should be revoked.

The money power should be returned to the people where it rightfully belongs.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

as the govt is right now... do we really want them trying to agree on any fiscal policy ? ... they can't even agree on a budget in 6 months....

maybe after we fix it.... but if we make it all transparent why would we want to ? ... in reality all they do is "suggest" policy.... it's still up to the Treasury if it's followed... maybe we need to look at the Treasury first ? no ?

further the Fed is privately owned ... it would be like the govt absorbing your car ;)

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Good points. I just have always been bothered that a private institution could have so much influence on the national economy and not be accountable to the government which, in theory, is supposed to be looking out for the nation's best interest. I have always thought the Fed needed greater accountability for their actions, decisions, and monetary policy.

[-] 1 points by lithosere (65) 2 years ago

ya maybe if we end the fed, the us will no longer be a bloodthirsty empire. maybe it will return to what it was before 1913: a bloodthirsty empire.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

The U.S. was absolutely NOT a bloodthirsty empire before the creation of the Federal Reserve System. The majority of Americans were opposed to entering WWI by a wide margin.

[-] 2 points by lithosere (65) 2 years ago

Oh yeah so I suppose North America was an unpopulated wasteland when Euroamericans arrived then.

Or maybe the indigenous people asked the Euroamericans to take it over, and asked them to cut down all its forests. And then one day msybe they just decided to consolidate themselves into concentration camps and die in poverty.

Or maybe it doesn't mater what happened because that was all before history started.

By the way, most United Statesians are opposed to war in the Middle East, and were opposed to war in Vietnam. It didn't stop their nation-state from being a bloodthirsty empire.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

The settlers at Plymouth had friendly relations with Indians. Jamestown (English) settlers followed a different pattern. Although they wrote in flowery language of their intent to share the gospel, in reality they did not even plant a crop for twenty years. preferring to raid the Indians and steal their provisions, instead.

http://www.henrymakow.com/veteransdayrequires.html

[-] 1 points by lithosere (65) 2 years ago

so tell me then, was it an empire back then? If not why not? You are sidestepping the question. Beyond first settlers, what about the westward expansion?

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

Elements of the Empire were present from the beginning. The power of the Empire is derived from private issuance and control of money.

Do you not agree that the U.S, has become much more of a warrior nation since 1913?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

yeah... and try to remove the Fed ... that's a BIG battle ...

I say start our own Fed .. much easier .... give them some good old fashioned competition

since it's going to be paid by the people... why not owned by the people ?

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

That is a really interesting point. I'm trying to think that through. Congress borrows $$$ from the current Fed which, in theory, must be paid back with interest. The only source of revenue besides borrowing (which actually isn't real revenue) is through taxing the people. The American public always has to pay for everything.

So if we create our own Fed owned by the People, Congress borrows from it, with interest owed. They borrow our money, then are expected to pay us back, with interest, with our own money. They have to tax us more in order to pay back with interest, so, let's see...doesn't that mean that in the end we would actually have to pay more taxes to pay ourselves back on a loan congress made from us????

This hurts my head. I feel like I have entered a surrealist Salvador Dali painting.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hehehe I'm still laughing ... hehehe ... and I know UD was joking around ... but.. the interest is paid by the banks who borrow the money from OUR Fed

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hehehehehehehe ;) that's a GREAT post UD

[-] 3 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I'm glad you liked it. If it wasn't so blatantly sinister, I could laugh right along with you. But mostly, I feel like going on a shooting rampage. Since I can't time travel back to 1913, I guess I'll just go have a beer, crawl into my bed in a fetal position, and suck my thumb.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hehe ... well in reality you pretty much nailed what is taking place...

the banks need more money.... the Fed agree's and asks the government to print more ... the Fed then loan's that new printed money to the central banks of their choosing at near zero interest ... the central banks in turn lend it to the next banks at a little higher interest ... and so on.... now those banks do owe the govt the money back ...

how-ever when they default... they simply ask for more... and the people are required to pick up the tab on the defaulted loan...

well the people can't afford that... so they then go to the high interest bank to borrow money so they can pay off the loan the banks defaulted on

and I agree ~~~~ signed Salvador Dali

;)

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I feel like I just got off the Teacup ride at Disneyland.

So let's just play the Inflation game. Banks need more money...but what about Fractional Reserve Banking where they create money out of thin air via loans? They can create money from nothing about 10x the amount of actual reserves in their vaults. And yet they say they need more money.

Grrrrrrrrrrr......

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

yep ... but we could do the same... if we had our own "Reserve Bank" and control where the money is invested... ie. education, healthcare, new energy's , new industry;s ... etc... everything the banks could care less about...

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

In the People's Fed, are we allowed to print money from the US Mint like current Fed or no (yes I know most new money is not actually paper printed today but just exists electronically in banking computers and is transferred around)? Would we have the same power to create it and inject it into the money supply? If not, how do we fund our PeopleFed?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

---->Would we have the same power to create it and inject it into the money supply?

as far as I can tell ... (and I'm 99.99% sure) ... the Fed makes the rules... so if we the People had a Fed ... we would make the rules too ... we just can't go bankrupt ...

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

You know, I have been following your comments all over these forums for a while now, and you seem very knowledgable when it comes to how money works. If you don't mind my asking, are you in the Banking or Finance sector? If not, how did you get so knowledgable? I know you are an intelligent person, so assume you are not an economist (hehe :-)

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hmmm... well I studied math & computers in college... was always interested in fixing poverty problems... hated text book economics because I thought it was BS.... and until OWS started I never looked into banking or finance ... the little bit I know now is from what I've read since Sept 27 .. ;)

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Interesting...

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

UD, but I also know a lot about our govt... I lived downtown DC for 11 yrs... spent 2 yrs lobbying congress & agency's trying to fund a school for the Architectural Art's focusing on drug abuse recovery and homeless issues... all to no avail ... I very well understand the corruption of our govt...

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

More interesting. You're my first actual lobbyist. So what are your opinions on how lobbying and/or influence peddling can be reformed? Can it?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hmm... that's a good one... first not all lobbying is bad,,, honest lobbyists bring needed & valid information to whom-ever ... some lobbyists black-mail whom-ever ,,, I think the real issue is corruption.... how to fix it ? ... not sure... strong punishment would help... but our courts are corrupt too ....

I think as far as corrupt politicians ... we need to recall them as fast as we can.. whenever we find their on the take.... I believe if we had a People's Veto ... a lot can be fixed quickly.. and long standing ....

all in all I think most of the problems and solutions are surfacing at the Occupy sites & related blogs... I think we simply need to get organized by spring/summer and a lot might happen towards fixing this mess ...

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

well... I don't know all the details yet... but we can base it on what is required of the Fed... they need a certain % in deposit for each requested issue ... (I can't remember the proper terms... but the data is available) ... and if the people wanted it... we could certainly raise the funds ... and I believe we could demand a people's Fed... especially considering the irresponsibility that has just taken place .... if we can get this organized with experienced bankers and economists ... we stand a chance... we have the Bank of North Dakota who would like this... and there are more state banks trying to organise ... I say we do not try to immediately or ideally ever go in competition with the Fed... let them play their global economic development games while we pick up the social development stuff they ignore...

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Oh...ok, I gotcha now...

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

it just might work.. huh ? ...;)

and I think we should call it the "Social Reserve Bank"

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

Have you considered using google docs to create a data set of statistics and legislative options? You can build some elaborate stuff that will create flowcharts for you and linking to other documents or spreadsheet, ect.. If you would be interested and need any help, it's free.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

I think we need all the help we can get... and this site is more visible than google doc's at this point imo.... but I would love to see that some point... I think this do-able

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 2 years ago

I'm sure you wouldn't get in trouble for sharing a link to the lead document with a summery. The thread on this forum could be used to gather opinions and other fact or news and the thread and documents could work in tandem to create a living document and thread. Just an idea. I don't know enough about the fed or I would.

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

;) yeah... and I don't know enough yet either ;)

[-] 2 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

Perhaps an easier way to accomplish this can be found in the excellent articles written by Ellen Brown J.D. posted at:

http://www.WebOfDebt.com

Publicly Owned Banks such as the Bank of North Dakota

North Dakota is the only state to be in continuous budget surplus since the banking crisis of 2008. Its balance sheet is so strong that it recently reduced individual income taxes and property taxes by a combined $400 million, and is debating further cuts. It also has the lowest foreclosure rate and lowest credit card default rate in the country, and it has had NO bank failures in at least the last decade.

If its secret isn’t oil, what is so unique about the state? North Dakota has one thing that no other state has: its own state-owned bank.

[-] 1 points by votersway (15) 2 years ago

Private banks aren't problematic as long they are accountable, transparent and there is no monopoly or oligopoly (like the Fed and the big banks). The problems with the financial system are five:

  1. counterfeit
  2. monopoly
  3. secrecy
  4. unaccountability and lack of personal skin in the game
  5. mixing investment banking and lending.

The public banks you mentioned fix only the 3rd problem... somewhat. If they go national, corruption will flourish again - it has repeatedly happened throughout history. The system must be thoroughly and meticulously redesigned. Returning Glass-Stegall would be good starting point.

votersway.com

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

“Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money.” – Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England (appointed 1928). Reputed to be the 2nd wealthiest man in England at that time.

http://www.TheMoneyMasters.com

http://www.Monetary.org

http://www.WebOfDebt.com

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks…will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered…. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. – Thomas Jefferson in the debate over the Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809)

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.” – Thomas Jefferson

“The bank hath benefit of interest on all moneys which it creates out of nothing.” William Paterson, founder of the Bank of England in 1694, then a privately owned bank

“Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

[-] 0 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

hmmm..... Federal Reserve Bank Ownership

The stockholders in the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks are the privately owned banks that fall under the Federal Reserve System. These include all national banks (chartered by the federal government) and those state-chartered banks that wish to join and meet certain requirements. About 38 percent of the nation’s more than 8,000 banks are members of the system, and thus own the Fed banks.

The concept of "ownership" needs some explaining here, however. The member banks must by law invest 3 percent of their capital as stock in the Reserve Banks, and they cannot sell or trade their stock or even use that stock as collateral to borrow money. They do receive dividends of 6 percent per year from the Reserve Banks and get to elect each Reserve Bank’s board of directors.

The private banks also have a voice in regulating the nation’s money supply and setting targets for short-term interest rates, but it’s a minority voice. Those decisions are made by the Federal Open Market Committee, which has a dozen voting members, only five of whom come from the banks. The remaining seven, a voting majority, are the Fed’s Board of Governors who, as mentioned, are appointed by the president.

The Fed is a little defensive about the question of ownership. In its Frequently Asked Questions section, the Federal Reserve Board says: "The Federal Reserve System is not ‘owned’ by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects." It continues:

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/federal-reserve-bank-ownership/

more: http://federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/default.htm

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

-------->>> "The Federal Reserve System is not ‘owned’ by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects."

Based on everything I have read and heard so far, that statement sounds like a lie. If it isn't owned, then what about the link in the OP above that I will reproduce here:

http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

Who is right and who is wrong about this?

[-] 1 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 2 years ago

that's a good question... however the "whofed" doc is Published 1976 ... and it could be referring to the stock holders... I think wikipedia and treasury searches are needed ... I just havn't had time yet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_the_Treasury

http://www.treasury.gov/about/role-of-treasury/Pages/default.aspx

[-] 0 points by kikenvermin (0) 2 years ago

kikes