Forum Post: That Chevy Volt Really Sizzles !
Posted 12 years ago on June 22, 2012, 8:39 p.m. EST by commonsensefolks
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"commonsensefolks" Joined June 9, 2012 ... and you joined just to inform us about the Chevy Volt? Oy, what a fucktarded nation :)
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No, I post other things too, but I have a life outside of this zoo, so I don't have a super high post count like you do.
Thanks for bumping the thread, pussnutz!
Yeah Franny doesn't have a big attention span and gets kinda cranky cause he/she has their whole life invested in a loser movement that can't even get press anymore.
Sure gets your attention now doesn't it.
Actually not so much,more of a mild diversion. Just a little something to piss time away.
Back to the subject at hand:
The failure that is the Chevy Volt, pushed by the leftists to payoff yoonyenz at the expense of the American tax payer.
Throughout history there have been winners and losers in R&D. Take the Spruce Goose built by Howard Hughes. That was built under a defense contract issued to Hughes Corporation to build the worlds biggest cargo plane in anticipation of the invasion of Japan. We never invaded Japan, and the jet age came upon us..... wasted money? I don't think so.
The Chevy Volt is needed in the same way. We have to get off of fossil fuels. There will be winner projects and failures, thats the nature of life. Do you just want to pick on the failures or do you want to be part of the solution to our problems? Choice is yours.
A subsidy of $250,000 per copy of a Chevy Volt IS a failure. Get it now ???
Each Chevy Volt sold thus far may have as much as $250,000 in state and federal dollars in incentives behind it – a total of $3 billion altogether, according to an analysis by James Hohman, assistant director of fiscal policy at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy.
Hohman looked at total state and federal assistance offered for the development and production of the Chevy Volt, General Motors’ plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. His analysis included 18 government deals that included loans, rebates, grants and tax credits. The amount of government assistance does not include the fact that General Motors is currently 26 percent owned by the federal government. …
GM has estimated they’ve sold 6,000 Volts so far. That would mean each of the 6,000 Volts sold would be subsidized between $50,000 and $250,000, depending on how many government subsidy milestones are realized.
If battery manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824. For example, A123 Systems has received extensive state and federal support, and bid to be a supplier to the Volt, but the deal instead went to Compact Power. The $256,824 figure includes adding up the subsidies to both companies.
The $3 billion total subsidy figure includes $690.4 million offered by the state of Michigan and $2.3 billion in federal money. That’s enough to purchase 75,222 Volts with a sticker price of $39,828.
Want to talk about other industries? 50% of all R&D for the Pharmaceutical industry comes from government funded research. Government facilitates industry... its been happening for a very long time. Our competitors do the very same thing. You don't think the Japanese and Chinese governments don't subsidize their industries to give them an advantage?
You are supposed to have common sense... or is that just a meaningless name to you?
Cite your source for that figure. It's not the government's job to fund pharma research; that should be done by private industry. It's why we're going broke with a debt of $50,000 for every person in the United States ( http://www.usdebtclock.org ). Common sense dictates that gubment doesn't pick winners and losers, doesn't insert itself in every aspect of our lives (because it DOESN'T know better as history shows), and that it does only the functions spelled out in the U.S. Constitution.
This gubment does way too many things it's not supposed to and doesn't do the things that it's supposed to do. It just wastes money hand over fist.
Yup that was an older number, it is less now since cuts were put in place. Common sense says you go with what works. If gubmint subsidies are making our competitors out perform our industry, then thats what works.
You should take the time to really read this.... its full of common sense:
http://www.unitedformedicalresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Leadership-in-Decline-Assessing-US-International-Competitiveness-in-Biomedical-Research.pdf
And the US Navy keeping the Straights of Hormuz open for US Oil companies is a direct subsidy totaling a whole lot more than that.... got it?
No it's not a direct subsidy at all. The U.S. Navy does many things around the world, not just policing the ME. You can show no realistic situation where America not using ME oil would stop the U.S. Navy from doing the work it does. No Chevy Volt will ever replace gasoline. If you want that, you'd better come up with some other solution.
The first solar cell was made over 50 years ago and solar still can't meet baseload power requirements after all this time. Solar is maybe 1% of our total electrical supply after 50+ years. You idiots better come up with something better and stop tossing money out the window. Hell, even the batteries and solar panels and wind turbines are made in China!
What's you plan? Keep wasting more hard earned tax payer dollars and getting us deeper in debt to Asia?
The U.S. Navy does many things around the world, not just policing the ME. You can show no realistic situation where America not using ME oil would stop the U.S. Navy from doing the work it does.
Why do you think we are in the ME in the first place? Are you that naive? Even Alan Greenspan, who ran our economy for 20 years... a DC insider at the Executive level knew why and stated it in his memoirs:
"The man once regarded as the world's most powerful banker has bluntly declared that the Iraq war was 'largely' about oil. Appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1987 and retired last year after serving four presidents, Alan Greenspan has been the leading Republican economist for a generation and his utterings instantly moved world markets.
In his long-awaited memoir - out tomorrow in the US - Greenspan, 81, who served as chairman of the US Federal Reserve for almost two decades, writes: 'I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/16/iraq.iraqtimeline
The first solar cell was made over 50 years ago and solar still can't meet baseload power requirements after all this time.
There are over 30 utility scale solar generators in the US right now with the number growing. One example is below:
http://www.largescalesolar.org/technology.php
Solar is the only future. It's what powers earth naturally, and for our purposes is inexhaustible. Maybe if idiots like you were on board for the only obvious choice to our energy problems instead of being a roadblock more progress would happen.
Hell, even the batteries and solar panels and wind turbines are made in China!
Yeah because the Communist Chinese are smart enough to subsidize the solar manufactures. They understand what is at stake.
NASA is a perfect example. It was the best run R&D project in the world with everyone from industry to consumers benefiting far beyond what was spent (from 1958 -2011 an average of 9$B/year, chump change), but now has been decimated. Without R&D there is no progress. This isn't difficult to understand.
Our debt to Asia is not a problem, but the typical bogeyman that is brought up by conservatives... learn how the macroeconomics really work on the federal level before making such proclamations.
I will never understand why there are Americans who want us to fail to be a world leader in technology development because of their ideology.
"idiots"? insults=weak arguments. Your lack of faith in new tech is irrelevant. Internal combustion is so 19th century. We must divert all efforts, money to the tech of the 21st century. We must take back the jobs you claim now reside in China in Alternative energy. We must stop subsidizing fossil fuels, we must cut the military (incl patrolling ME) and use any monies to create American jobs in Green tech NOW!. NOW G@d Damn it. Stop playing your partisan games. And you reliance on the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney are ineffective! Don't you realize that intimidation does not work unless you can physically harm someone? C'mon. Grow up!
Internal combustion is OK - it is the fuel for such that is NOT - end fossil fuel use.
Hydrogen fuel cell - internal combustion with water vapor exhaust.
Ok. I incorrectly associate Int. Comb. with gas engines. But I'm good with hydrogen fuel cells. I think they have a great application in residential homes as well.
Not incorrectly - but out of habit as to what is in use today.
Hydrogen can be a viable future for private as well as commercial use.
You've seen it before - but for the benefit of others - here it is again:
Green Tech. Sustainable and healthy. Profitable and exportable.
This is where we should be going: Green Energy we have the technology we just need to use it. This is what I am talking about. A clean future to be implemented NOW!
http://www.hopewellproject.org/
http://ecat.com/
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/ff_new_nukes/all/1
FuelCell Energy http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/news/progress_alerts.cfm/pa_id=600
You have got to watch this vid: The liquid Metal Battery - another piece to the puzzle.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/donald_sadoway_the_missing_link_to_renewable_energy.html
Additional Liquid Metal Battery links.
http://lmbcorporation.com/
http://lmbcorporation.com/files/flyerFinal.pdf
I'm with you!
This is part of our common cause to unite in pushing forward to a healthy world a prosperous world - a world without fuel/energy strife.
Besides ending a culture of white collar crime as evinced in the Wallstreet world wide economic meltdown.
We need to change the energy industry - public and private use.
Create jobs changing over our infrastructure - energy supply - energy use - public/private.
End the destruction of our world over fossil fuel profits.
People over profits - and still prosperous for all.
green tech = left wing scam.
You are a right wing plant. You are anti 99%. You advocate for the 1% criminals who crashed the world economy and continue to prey on you and your family. The 1% cannot succeed without half the 99% (right wingers) blindly betraying their own class. Support OWS! Vote out anti Alt energy politicians!
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green "energy " will never get a plane off the ground.
Small solar plane just flew between 2 continents. But plane use will be the last to go green. Its true. Even large trucks can't really go green yet. but soon. Yes.
Again - Trucks can go green just like cars can - Hybrid buses are already in use - gas/electric - just needs to go all electric or hydrogen/electric or just hydrogen powered.
We need to shift our thinking we have been to long indoctrinated into fossil fuel thinking.
Change/shift of paradigm.
I have seen fedex small green (I think hybrid) trucks. But I do think that the largest 18 wheelers might be beyond current electric tech (maybe not fuel cell). We should be moving more freight to electric trains.
This is our common cause for unity - the unity of all of humanity - in health and prosperity - THIS - as well as ending white collar crime and corruption manipulation of government and abuse of the world for profit.
[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (1200) 1 minute ago
I do not doubt that more can be done. And I wouldn't be surprised if 18 wheelers can be managed. I am there. Support it wholeheartedly.
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We have to have real goals to support other than prosecuting the criminals ( along with ).
Positive goals are most preferable because they bring people together with improvements for all, and because it lasts forever, improvements are never done, it feeds on itself with positiveness for all.
I may support prosecutions, agitate for it, and use the angry rhetoric of revenge, but I am at heart more concerned about what we can do to help the 99% (and their 1% supporters).
The common cause for unity as you say would bring more people together, and have them stay together longer than the immediacy of angry revenge which by definition is over quickly. Burns bright and dies out quickly. If IT feeds on itself we would be looking for new enemies to prosecute continually, We would become blood thirsty and wind up likethe french revolution consuming ourselves. Its deep but true.
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Yes anger burns bright and hot and much too quickly it burns out - the key is to channel that initial burst of energy into a self-sustaining drive for excellence. Show how these positive goals as achieved will drive the reform/reshaping of this country the business world and the world in extension/inclusion.
[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (1200) 0 minutes ago
Positive goals are most preferable because they bring people together with improvements for all, and because it lasts forever, improvements are never done, it feeds on itself with positiveness for all.
I may support prosecutions, agitate for it, and use the angry rhetoric of revenge, but I am at heart more concerned about what we can do to help the 99% (and their 1% supporters).
The common cause for unity as you say would bring more people together, and have them stay together longer than the immediacy of angry revenge which by definition is over quickly. Burns bright and dies out quickly. If IT feeds on itself we would be looking for new enemies to prosecute continually, We would become blood thirsty and wind up likethe french revolution consuming ourselves. Its deep but true.
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There are heavy lift trucks - electric trucks available right now for use in short range transportation - about a 100 miles under a full load - combine that capacity with a hydrogen powered electric generator assist and how far can those trucks then travel? These trucks are already beginning to be used in some port loading off-loading operations now.
There are many options available today - and more will become available as we implement more fully.
Continuous process improvement - as well as R&D to new discoveries/uses.
Got to get the process implemented so we can improve upon it.
I do not doubt that more can be done. And I wouldn't be surprised if 18 wheelers can be managed. I am there. Support it wholeheartedly.
Why not ( and I believe you mean "off" the ground )? Do you not understand that hydrogen is a great power source? Combustible just like gasoline with a water vapor exhaust instead of co2.
of the gound, go to a cruising altitutde of 39,000 feet - 41,000 feet , fly at that altitude, non stop , for 10- 15 hours.
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Except that I'm also a lawyer, also working towards a grad degree in molecular biology, I'm also involved in a number of other civic groups (more traditional progressive sort of stuff), etc. But nahhh, I guess it makes you feel better to think I have all my eggs in one basket (what-fucking-ever)!
I wonder what all the self proclaimed movers and shakers and doers were doing while me and my buddies were sweating it out in the Iraqi desert? Let me guess, couch patrol :)
Can you file some civl suits against some of these banker crooks running around?
I raised my profession to respond to an implication that I'm some slacker who wants to protest all day long (same old silly shit, dirty slacker, unwashed protesters, bla, bla, bla) -- not because I was bragging (not that being a lawyer is really anything to brag about these days, but just to be clear).
Civil suits against bankers?? Haven't researched the possibility, but couldn't give bonafide legal advice over the internet even if I had (sorry).
The justice department was supposed to investigate this, but I'm not aware of anything happening (and if my cynical view of government is correct, we probably shouldn't hold our breath). If it's any consolation, I use a credit union for my banking :)
thanks for the response. It's just a thought which would be nice to float around. The way I see it, and OWS bless 'em all, but just occupying parks and parading around isn't going to get any ruling psychos from changing their ways. OWS needs some teeth, and I was thinking that may possibly be one means of achieving such.
Who Killed The Electric Car, the movie http://www.veoh.com/watch/v12581888HJGJyt6s?h1=who+killed+the+electric+car
big oil corporations. But now i can see Nissan electro commercial on TV. In order to maintain the competition chevy release VOLT
Green car? Where does the energy come from when you plug a chevy volt in for a recharge? My guess is with 20% probability its a nuclear plant, and over a 50 % probability its a coal plant.
What are you going to do with the batteries when they go bad?
If you want to save energy and the environment the best solution is to avoid driving in the first place.
Very true. There is no such thing as a green car. The greenest people are the ones who spend the least.
This vehicle is about to be released on the Australian market.
Apart from the R&D costs to the US taxpayers, is the Volt a viable alternative to the Toyota Prius?
http://gm-volt.com/2012/04/13/cost-per-mile-comparison-2012-volt-vs-2013-prius-plug-in/
Thankyou. I'll pass that information on.
The Volt reportedly gets 60 mpg when under gas-electric (hybrid) power. That I believe is pretty close, if not better than the Prius. So, the answer, as far as fuel economy goes, I would have to say is yes.
Thanks for the info, Shule. Just mentally doing the miles to kilometres thing, so 100 kilometres to five litres, and I get 100k/11.2L in my SUV.
There are little buzzbox three and four cylinder rice-burners that come close to the mileage of the Volt.
It would take some clever marketting to convince me to buy one. They will sell for around 60G here, and I can get quite a smart BMW for that kind of coin.
come on you. dont be such a shark. just let it be
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