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Forum Post: Tear Down the AMA and Give the 99% the Right to a Good Doctor

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 1, 2012, 1:05 a.m. EST by owsleader2038 (-10)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

This is why I invoked the 'Cuba' model, where anybody that wishes can become a doctor, that long ago Castro pledged an MD education to any child that could muster through the program, the result is the finest care in the world for the poor.

Folks in the USA live so deep in the shit and lies they have NOT a fucking clue about the real world.

Almost all the pill's sold in the USA cost penny's to make, so they can be sold for nothing virtually anywhere outside of the USA.

The AMA has been a gatekeeper to keep good people out of the medical field since they banned home-remedy years ago.

Funny that outside of the USA you can walk to a pharmacy anytime you wish, and show the pharmacist your problem and get a treatment for a buck, anywhere in the world its this way outside of the USA.

So let's have the debate, and watch these leeches on society squarm like hell and go on about how the USA has good equipment or good doctors and clean hospitals and other bullshit.

99% of the world doesn't spend a dime on medical insurance cuz you don't need it cuz drugs and doctors are cheap and plentiful, but what the ASSHOLES that run the USA have done is make it impossible for the 99% to have cheap high quality care.


17% of GDP spent by the U.S. on health care with the 9% of GDP spent by much of the rest of the world, noted that the U.S. has fewer doctors and nurses per person, and said, “[t]hat kind of a cost, compared with the rest of the world, is like a tapeworm eating at our economic body.”


American Medical Association (AMA) has lobbied the government to highly limit physician education since 1910, currently at 100,000 doctors per year,[109] which has led to a shortage of doctors[110] and physicians' wages in the U.S. are double those in the Europe, which is a major reason for the more expensive health care.[111]

An even bigger problem may be that the doctors are paid for procedures instead of results.[111]

AMA has also aggressively lobbied for many restrictions that require doctors to carry out operations that might be carried out by cheaper workforce. For example, in 1995, 36 states banned or restricted midwifery even though it delivers equally safe care to that by doctors, according to studies. The regulation lobbied by AMA has decreased the amount and quality of health care, according to the consensus of economist: the restrictions do not add to quality, they decrease the supply of care.[109][112] Moreover, psychologists, nurses and pharmacologists are not allowed to prescribe medicines.[clarification needed] Previously nurses were not even allowed to vaccinate the patients without direct supervision by doctors.

47 Comments

47 Comments


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[-] 1 points by neizuc (52) 2 years ago

They cost a penny to make if you don't count R&D. What was the last new drug Cuba came up with?

[-] 0 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

All drugs are now made in India, including Viagra, for penny's.

Your an apologist whore for the AMA & Big-Pharma, ... like anybody else on earth pay's for the R&D,

This is the same fucking argument that lawyers use for billing $200-$600/hour, because while it might take them five minutes, ... you have to pay for their education and research.

Fuck of all you apologists, nobody else on earth pay's the BIG fucks for PHARMA, only US citizens, cuz the AMA has them by the Ball's with the Prescription racket, ... and no where else on earth requires a fucking prescription.

Once you do away with prescriptions, then you have real competition.

See the USA is a kleptocracy, way more fucking COMMUNIST than any commie country, commie's care about people, USA cares about fucking people.

Fuck the R&D argument, most R&D was paid for by NHS or some federal agency, rarely does Pharma invest money as they like to suggest. 99% of all pharma costs are from lobbying and marketing.

[-] 1 points by neizuc (52) 2 years ago

I am sure your statistic are very well researched - nice job keeping it civil

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I had Pink Eye

I heard I need a $70 and a day off to get a prescription of anti-biotic eye drops

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

Matt that really stinks. You can ask your druggist if they have a generic. Walmart drug prices are usually pretty good.Make sure that you use some soap and water to wipe down places you touch (steering wheel of car, tooth brush handle! wall swithced your computer!!) otherwise it will go away and you can end up getting it right back.

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Go any where else in the world and walk into a corner pharmacy, and ask for eye-drops, point at your eye, and walk out 1 minute later short about $1.

For me in the USA, I have to wait 4 hours to see a doctor, prove I have insurance, get billed $300 for the visit, and then take a the prescription to a pharmacy, wait a couple of hours to have it 'filled', and then pay another $100 or more.

FUCK THE USA.

[-] 1 points by l6griffin (5) from Oakdale, CA 2 years ago

There is a problem with most professional organizations. They are more interested in membership, and do little or nothing to improve the profession they represent.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

and not only has the commercial medicinal corporations ignored many of the natural cures that can cure diseases, or sickness because they cant patent something found in nature, them and attorneys suing the medicinal corporations continue to pollute our entertainment tv time with their worthless piles of crap with their anything goes for a profit mentality, Grow some integrity I say. It reminds me of the mentality of some who have chased the dollar at all cost of integrity one day, while wondering why they are jobless and losing their houses and familes another day. Or the jobseekers who constantly looking for that job at one place and then changing to another for a dollar an hour more. I myself has gone thru several of these people, who if anyone would have stuck around would be making $20-25 an hour today. Duh, further proof that the masses intelligence is that of an idiot. If they would have only learned the basics, whatever you sow, so shall you reap.

[-] 0 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

The US public is now reaping that what they have sowed upon the earth for 50+ years. It couldn't happen to a more deserving pool of larvae.

[-] 1 points by ancientmariner (275) 2 years ago

insurance companies first. Keel hall them.

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Find the article, but this past weekend the NYT declared US medical insurance DEAD, in ten years it will be gone.

[ ok, I found it for you, .. this is why I leave this issue alone, they have destroyed themselves ]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/30/the-end-of-health-insurance-companies/

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

Folks in the USA live so deep in the shit and lies they have NOT a fucking clue about the real world.

That is a FACT: Peek your head above the propaganda machine aka the "lame street media."

Good article - The Truth About the Rockefeller Drug Empire: The Drug Story http://www.whale.to/b/ruesch.html

" . . . a business which makes 6% on its invested capital is considered a sound money maker. Sterling Drug, Inc., the main cog and largest holding company in the Rockefeller Drug Empire and its 68 subsidiaries, showed operating profits in 1961 of $23,463,719 after taxes, on net assets of $43,108,106 - a 54% profit. Squibb, another Rockefeller-controlled company, in 1945 made not 6% but 576% on the actual value of its property."

"Financed by the taxpayers, these Drug Trust persecutions leave no stone unturned to destroy the victim. If he is a small operator, the resulting attorney's fees and court costs put him out of business. In one case, a Dr. Adolphus Hohensee of Scranton, Pa., who had stated that vitamins (he used natural ones) were vital to good health, was taken to court for 'misbranding' his product. The American Medical Association furnished ten medicos who reversed all known medical theories by testifying that 'vitamins are not necessary to the human body'. Confronted with government bulletins to the contrary, the medicos wiggled out of that one by declaring that these standard publications were outdated!"

The medico-drug cartel was summed up by J.W Hodge, M.D., of Niagara Falls, N.Y., in these words:

"The medical monopoly or medical trust, euphemistically called the American Medical Association, is not merely the meanest monopoly ever organized, but the most arrogant, dangerous and despotic organisation which ever managed a free people in this or any other age. Any and all methods of healing the sick by means of safe, simple and natural remedies are sure to be assailed and denounced by the arrogant leaders of the AMA doctors' trust as fakes, frauds and humbugs.

Every practitioner of the healing art who does not ally himself with the medical trust is denounced as a 'dangerous quack' and impostor by the predatory trust doctors. Every sanitarian who attempts to restore the sick to a state of health by natural means without resort to the knife or poisonous drugs, disease imparting serums, deadly toxins or vaccines, is at once pounced upon by these medical tyrants and fanatics, bitterly denounced, vilified and persecuted to the fullest extent."

  • from The Drug Story by Morris A. Bealle
[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

You talk about Rockefeller getting rich on PHARMA in the 1960s, ... how about talking about what Rockefeller did with that money? How he invested that money in Rockefeller Family future ...

Winthrop Rockefeller ( Governor of Arkansas adopted Bill Clinton ) sent him all the way to Oxford for scholarship and on to be a Rhodes Scholar, after back to being Governor of Arkansas.

Rumors are that Bill's mom was one of Winthrops whores and Bill could have very well been one of his own, its also established that BIll's view of women came from his early years. Winthrop kept Bill and his mother in a trailer behind the Arkansas white house, when bill was a child.

Old man Rockefeller ( big oil ) had a dozen son's and everyone became a governor or senator.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

well, that follows a pattern

[-] 1 points by zoom6000 (430) from St Petersburg, FL 2 years ago

I agree,Also free education for every one

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

Well, where do I start with you? The AMA does not keep good people out of the field of medicine it just keeps out the people who are not smart enough not to kill their patients (and it doesn’t always work 100%). Go to college for four years, then on to medical school and then do a residency and you can put those two letters behind your name also . MD. If, you want to heal with herbs, moving body parts and natural medicine become an osteopathic doctor, you do the same school and get to put the letters D.O., behind your name. There are no short cuts you have to do the school if you want to practice on other people. Home remedies have never been banned you can stick a pitch fork up your ass to cure hemorrhoids if you like, but only your own hemorrhoids. What amazes me is the young people who believe that herbs and crap oil that cost you a fortune can kill cancer and make the dead awake. Other than a fantasy story from the herb store that is taking your money I am yet to see one person who has been magically cured of anything other than the runs. There is not a doctor I know that would not be much happier giving you some herbs rather than having to just about kill you to cure you. Next, your limited knowledge on Socialist and Communist medicine. These are the two worst medical systems in the world. Canada has an awful time retaining physicians because who wants to spend half their life in school only to make as much as a carpenter when they are done. Canada has a horrible shortage of doctors and many of them are not the best and brightest. Here is a tale from the crypt for you..I broke my leg skiing in Canada. A rather bad break that left a good section of my femur shattered and 4+ inch gap in there to boot...Now I know you probably think you can wave some snake oil over that and fix it but the sucker was never going to let me stand on it properly again and it need a rod to be placed in it. I was hurt on a Saturday and with the socialist medicine and shortage of doctors I had to wait 5 FIVE days to have the rod put in. You ready for the next tale let’s talk about the doctors in Cuba you rave about. While we all know the numbers say the life expectancy in Cuba is very high but don’t be fooled by the number because they come from the communist. While medical tourist are treated in very nice facilities most of the population is treated in facilities that look like 1950 and are filthy. Furthermore if you watched the Michael Moore documentary “Sicko” read this: http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm and I can tell you second hand, this information is much more accurate. I agree medical insurance is much too expensive. However, our country has not for profit hospitals and clinics and a whole slew of programs to help someone pay for medical care. It is not right that someone has to lose their home and everything they own to get medical care. For the most part the uninsured get treated and we don’t have large numbers of people dying in the street. If you want to be a doctor, take off your jammies and occupy a seat in a classroom. You would most likely make a fine doctor. If you don’t want to do that just remember keep the pitchfork to yourself.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 2 years ago

I like your Link. We need to end our war with Cuba, TODAY. The Economic Embargo of Cuba is WAR, and when ended the Internet and free flow of info will change Cuba.

I disagree with your conclusions in some cases obviously. I benefited from your comments. I'm a little more grounded perhaps. Many countries now have private hospitals and medical services for people with money (with American Trained Doctors). Cuba is an extreme of 3rd World Medical Care. But the USA has to claim a lot of responsibility for the state of medical care in Cuba.

Corporations like pharmacies and the AMA do bad things. The current State Of The Union for US Medical system is Bad. Everyone looks out for their own self interest don't you think. Health Insurance industry is very bad (everyone knows this). And most people go bankrupt in the USA after a major illness (everyone knows this). I don't believe it is as simple as "you just need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps".

I agree with you on wasted money in my case. I do have a box of supplements that were expensive to buy, that I don't use, and that I don't think have any value. I also think doctors don't know about nutrition, don't help with health maintenance, don't do much for prevention, and are limited in their vision. I don't think we know the truth about micro-nutrients yet. And I don't think the practice of medicine is a science (it is a practice and in the US we have plenty of psuedo science going around). I think corporate interests suppress the truth and cover up or avoid studies that could be valuable.

We are sort of control freaks in the US in regards to medicine. And I don't think we face the truth about poor cancer treatments, about poor health insurance coverage, and about medical expenses. And we are brain washed that the medicine is only good in the US. I agree with others that cures for cancer could have been suppressed over 50 years because they were not profitable. See link. CDA Drug

http://www.naturalnews.com/034823_cancer_industry_patent_protection_drugs.html#ixzz1l3girz6p:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10971

http://www.sawilsons.com/gonzalez2.htm

http://www.cell.com/cancer-cell/retrieve/pii/S1535610806003722

http://www.dca.med.ualberta.ca/Home/Donations/

http://www.khanacademy.org/video/glycolysis?playlist=Biology

I had a doctor in Germany that was good. He consulted with me in his office and then we went to the examination room. I always felt like he gave me enough time with him and found his fee comfortable even though I didn't have insurance coverage. I've used doctors in Poland, Philippines, and in South Korea as well.

I have a nurse here in the USA that comes into the exam room to rush the doctor or me for the other patients... I often felt unheard as a result.

I totally agree that we should be able to get drugs at the pharmacy when we visit and consult with the pharmacist. Matter of fact I needed a refill when I was out of state recently after some long term travel for a simple item, for a simple reason, and was refused even 1 or 2 pills.

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

When I figure out how to provide the world with low cost medical care I will announce it right here! Most of the doctors that I know really hate even dealing with cancer and if there were a low cost CURE or high cost CURE or any CURE they would be very happy.

The problem with Dichloroacetic acid is that it causes CANCER of the liver in humans...at low doses it some helps with tumors was thought but if the dosage was up to levels believed to make this work the mice got live tumors and so did people...

Drug companies have poured billions into cancer research and finding a cure and as everyone knows we are not much better off than we were 10 years ago. (better off than 20 years ago!). For the amount of money that has been put into cancer research vs. the amount of money made cancer is a losing adventure everytime.

Fidel does not have drugs for the people of Cuba because GUESS what...he trades the drugs for oil also. Cuba manufactures drugs and they export them all.

The embargo needs to end and someone should ummm....remove Mr. Castro. The people of Cuba rise (and then duck quick because they will shot your eye out).

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 2 years ago

Good Discussion. Thank for being part of it.

You have a lot to offer with your experience. I kind of wish I had gone on to higher education like in medicine or law. I'm a bit old now to carry the college debt though.

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

Never stop learning. Take a class at your local college or your town might offer low cost adult education night classe If you have never been to college and you are a little older you can get an amazing number of college credits for your real life experience. If you didn't graduate high school most colleges will let in older people anyway! Being in class with younger people can be so much fun! If you live in the city and have $1000 to spend take a class at NYU http://www.scps.nyu.edu/academic-programs/continuing-education/ they have a great school of continuing education and professional studie with no undergrad degree required!
If you just want to learn on your computer watch the modules at Kahn Academy: http://www.khanacademy.org/ This guy is great and if I had teachers like this in high school!!! Try something that is way out of your comfort zone. Take a painting class at the senior center (if you are old enough). And last but not least read. Read books written by smart people and then check out what they are saying.
The point is to never stop learning, never stop meeting new people (everyone has something to contribute) and never stop listening. At this point its not about the degree because somethings they just can't teach you at school anyway! Give yourself credit for what you have learned in life!

I have been so lucky (and worked really hard) and I had the chance to do amazing things. I have been a farmer worker, a waitress, a travel agent, an analyst for a fortune 500 company, an owner of an internet company ( I was awarded a patent and then sold the company), an auctioneer and an Auction House owner. I have trained horses and kids and a husband and myself (only kidding about the husband and myself-untrainable!). I have been lucky enough to travel quite a bit of the world ..always off the beaten path..and lived to tell about it. (Mexico in the hills got vey ugly and I am suprised they just didn't shot us because that is what they usually do.) I have lived in a few countries and know an amazing number of people. Our world has its faults and short comings but it is an amazing place to explore and learn about. Now go and find a class to take. I think you will find some fun stuff at Kahn to start you off! PS I come from an old political family and I am the blacksheep. I call everyone out on everything and I am CENSORED at this point. haha.

[-] 1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

You know my argument? Why change the subject, I know Canada is fucked, they too have an AMA gatekeeper limiting doc's.

I'm advocating doing what all country's outside of North America do, open up medical school to anybody that wants to go, flood streets with doctors, ... shit with real unemployment over 15% and a shortage of doc's your yourself admit surely we should let poor bright kids become doc's if they can pass the work.

OH, ... I see not killing your patient is why the AMA gatekeeper operates, ... what fucking bullshit. Killing is killing, if you kill your patient your career is finished, ... well except the USA where you can hire a lawyer and have the AMA protect you, ... cuz see the AMA is a UNION to keep BAD doctors in power.

Fuck MEDICAL insurance, if your visit to a doc never exceeds $10/day you don't need medical insurance, and almost all governments outside of North-America have dreaded-disease coverage for citizens,...

It's only the USA/Canada that have this FUCKED system of causing people to file bankruptcy after they have worked all their lives.

Fuck anybody that apologizes for the AMA, ..

KILL THE FUCKING AMA

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[-] 0 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Long ago I read, maybe over 30 years ago that US citizens in the future would once again simply die of simple diseases like they did over 100 years ago, but in the future for the simple reason that medical treatment would become un-affordable to the common man.

Just another reason in my mind why NOT to live in the USA.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

No one's keeping you here. (Of course, no one wants you elsewhere, so it may pose a dilemma.)

[-] 0 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

Bye, bye. Just remember when you get to that communist country with the free medical care that isn't so great KEEP your MOUTH shut because you will get 20 years behind bars there. )

[-] 0 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

the only communist country in the world I fear is the USA,

I'm already a free person enjoying high quality health-care outside the USA for penny's on the dollar, I bailed out of the USA years ago.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

Then, once agin, why do you pollute us here? Enjoy your other country. Byeeeeee.

[-] -1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

Great if you are so happy in your new found home why do you want to post here? Most POOR people with top grades that can pass the exams and get admitted to medical school end up having most of it paid for from financial aide and grants. Its the middle class that gets hammered on medical school costs. But what the hell a doctor can afford to pay his loans off when he is done with school so whats your problem with the high colst of medical school?

[-] 0 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Well that's my point,.. the problem is that the AMA has created a shortage of doctors, ... what we need is FREE 100% FREE medical education that is what Chavez did in Venezuela, and it works.

I completely agree, that Medical education is expensive, ... its all crazy, in most country's its about $2,000-$3,000/year for a graduate education, in the US its 20X, ... or more.

Make medical education free, the hospitals are already in place, ... any way's this is not so much the issue, as in the majority of the world there are plenty of quality low-cost physicians, because there is no AMA gate-keeper.

Once the government was paying for education doctors even here virtual capitalism of USA you would have schools competing to provide low-cost education to get the money.

The entire racket now is like insurance, all the high costs are just passed on the future doctor's see their $300k debt as an investment, trouble is from the day they start practice,

All the high costs of pharmaceuticals is passed on, nobody cares, the end result is nobody can pay except government and insurance company's and now most people can no longer afford insurance.

The fact is the majority of the world can deliver cheap quality medical care and the USA has 10,000 excuses why its the most expensive.

WRT to your 'middle-class' as you know its long gone, ...

There should be 10X more doctors than there are today the entire system should be flooded with doctors, so there is a clinic or doctor on every corner, ... and then prices will drop to the floor, just like in the rest of the world.

[-] 0 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

Haven't you noticed the more the GOVERNMENT sticks its nose in anything the worse off we become. Since OBAMA care my private health insurance as gone from $2050 a month ro $2698 for 5 people. I pay for my own health insurance and it is enought to make you want to barf.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 2 years ago

Isn't it true that there is a lack of competition within each state?

So that it is kind of a monopoly or oligopoly that you face working with the Health Insurance Companies.... I'm just thinking we need to break down the monopolies.

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

There are get this...federal regulations that limit the purchasing of insurance across state lines. States have regulated health insurance since the 1945 passage of the McCarran Ferguson Act, which, among other things, forbids interstate sale of insurance (health, auto, homeowners). States have regulated insurance ever since. The only exception is if you are a company and employee people in multiple states you may purchase a policy that covers across state lines. It is really twisted.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

The overwhelming majority of the Affordable Healthcare Act hasn't begun yet, and won't until 2014. Your insurance premiums going up is not a direct result of that legislation. It is a result of private insurance companies lining their coffers before the law takes effect. After it does, the health care mandate plus the price controls embedded in the legislation should either bring your premiums down or slow down their inflation. One of the many reasons for the law in the first place is because of the nearly unfettered extortion of the insurance industry. Rates were going up astronomically long before the legislation was even being considered, long before this president was even in office.

owsleader2038 is a paranoid schizophrenic, but this particular response to him is fact-challenged.

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

here is the problem with my medical insurance. the company the wrote the policy for me wrote it in 2000. They no longer write insurance in my state. They can raise their rates as high as they want and I am not allowed to change the plan one iota. I am not allowed to increase the deductable to try and lower the cost. NOT one change. Ok so go get insurance from someone else. I have tried and we have been rejected by every insurance company that writes. I am stuck with the highway robber insurance company.

[-] 1 points by epa1nter (4650) from Rutherford, NJ 2 years ago

And once the Affordable Care Act kicks in, that will no longer be an issue, since no insurance company will be allowed to reject you. (As long as this pernicious conservative, politically motivated Supreme Court doesn't kill the law.)

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

2014 can not come soon enough. To get in a program now we would have to drop our health insurance for six months, which I will never do because we have very bad luck...... :(

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

OCCUPY MEDICAL - Why in the hell do you live in the USA? For what?

Most country's don't even require health insurance cuz medical is less than they spend on fuel, it would be like having to buy fuel-insurance for your car.

The USA public can no longer afford health-care, cuz its the most expensive in the world, cuz US doctors are the biggest crooks in the world, bigger crooks than WALLSTREET.

OCCUPY MEDICAL

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

"Most country's don't even require health insurance cuz medical is less than they spend on fuel, it would be like having to buy fuel-insurance for your car." Many countries don't require health care insurance because there is sadly no health care available and the people can't afford insurance and neither can their governments. In countries that have medical care available their is a two tier system. If you are rich you go to the private hospital and get good care at amazing prices compares to the prices here. If you are not rich you go to the other hospital, and that one is not so nice. There is no good health care ANY PLACE IN THE WORLD IF YOU DO NOT HAVE MONEY TO PAY FOR IT. You really are such an elitest it is unbelievable.

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

The subject here is getting good health-clinics for cheap on every corner for the average poor american soul.

Bullshit, I have lived abroad my whole life, and do so currently,

You don't need health insurance, cuz going to the doctor costs about $10 at best, shit I can go for the whole day in day-care surgery for $20, and get pill's I can go for a casual visit ( flu ... ) and see a doctor within 5 min walk any direction from my house not more than a minute and find a clinic, see a first rate doc, and walk away with a bag of pill's ( manufactured in India :) ), all the world is this way,

Most country's I have lived I have tried to get health insurance, and its not available, you can buy life-insurance, ... but health care is so cheap, and almost all governments cover 'cancer', ... so called dred-disease so most people don't bother,

The USA you can't even get in the door when you have a cold if your not paying $1,000/month or more for 'insurance' and that's just the beginning of the FUCK,

Don't fuck with me 'learnthis', your just another thrassy apologist for the system, most likely the OWS is on contract to defend 1,000's of interests from unions to the AMA,

Yes, in most of the world, including China if your rich you can go to a special hospital, but why even bring this up, we're not spokesmen for the rich, it seems like everytime one of you 'apologist' debate health care you bring up the fucking 'exception' like 'brain-surgery' and now rich-people.

The subject here is getting good health-clinics for cheap on every corner for the average poor american soul.

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

You just don't get. A construction worker in Thailand makes about 4863 bahts a month..or $157.00 USD. So is a $10 doctor visit cheap to someone who makes $157 A MONTH? A construction worker in Mexico makes about $300 (top rate) a month so is $10 cheap to him? What you don't seem to realize is that in these CHEAP countries when doctors are busy giving you, your $10 cheapie cheapie exam they are no working in the places were people who can not afford $10 go. These medical "destinations" and places that serve expats take away resources from the people who live in those countries. Cheap is relative to the income of the people who live in the country not relative to YOUR wallet. What people forget is there already are heath care clinics for the poor. No one can be denied emergency medical care at a hospital. You may have to wait (and every now and them someone drops dead waiting but so do people that have health insurance!) but you will NEVER be denied emergency care, which you will be denied in many other countries if you don't have pesos or bahts.

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

An ounce of prevention is worth more than a mountain of AMA greed.

In Greece your never denied,

In Mexico or Thailand, in general you go to the neighborhood clinic, they all know your family, ... your good for $5, if you don't happen to be carrying that much cash.

Why the fuck are you such a WHORE to protect AMA, all your arguments are based on bullshit.

In case you don't know, the USA is heading to Malaysia, India, and Mexico wages and quick, the only thing that Uncle Sam hasn't done is make health-care affordable.

The USA is a 3rd world nation, but its got the most expensive doctors in the world, and don't to talking to me about how rich you are because I can give a fuck, most people I know in the USA are out of work and have been out of work for a long time and live on less than $200/week, which isn't enough to get your ass into a clinic.

If the USA is going to treat its people and destroy the middle class like it has, but then only have doctors that service the rich, because NOBODY but the rich can afford to be sick,

Well fuck you and all the AMA apologists like you.

My premise is simple, use 10% of the 3 trillion we spend a year on medicine,use that money to build clinics all over the country,and give anybody that wants the opportunity to be a GP doctor,

I don't give a fuck about your special cases of brain-surgery, ... or such, ... I'm talking about just simple shit, cuz in america folks have DRED problems cuz they can't afford to take care of the little shit.

An ounce of prevention is worth more than a mountain of AMA greed.

[-] 2 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

First of all. I said it 10 posts ago...The heathcare system in this country is in SHAMBLES. I pay $2600 a month (5 people) for health insurance for my family. That means I have to make $31,200 before we can eat or put gas in the car. I am far removed from the top 1%. Since my husband had a heart attack and I have two young adult children with a genetic eye disease that leads to blindness I am not insurable with another company. I can just about walk since I was severly injured in 2004 and yup...again in 2005. My husband owns a construction company that went from employing 40 people to employing NONE. I make whatever money I can however I can so that we can pay for the health insurance, kids college, gas for the car and food. So you having the never to even think that I am unaware of the state of medical care in this country makes me want to fly to Thailand or wherever you are and punch your little upturned elitest nose in even if I have to stand on my tippy toes to do so.

Let's go back to the construction worker. The average salary of a construction worker in the US is 3329.00 per month . The Mexican construction worker makes 300 a month and your Thailand construction worker makes 150. Stay with me for a minute. 3329 300 150 the doctor in Mexico and Thailand costs $10 (you now changed it to 5) American workers salary = 10x Mexican and 20x Thailand So reatively speaking the $10 doctor visit out of this country would cost you 10 to 20 times more here $100 to $200. The $10 visit in Thailand to a person that lives in Thailand is like a $200 doctor visit here. The $10 visit for the Mexican is like a $100 visit here. The cost of medical care is relative to the salary that you make. To a Mexican or a Thai the $10 doctor feels just as expensive (and maybe more so)as it feels to an American who has to pay a $100 doctor bill.

Everything is relative to your income. When you go to Thailand or Mexico or Africa or the Middle East or South America it may feel incredibly cheap to you but to a person who lives there and earns their money within the local economy it is not cheap.

People scream about companies using cheap labor in China and other countries. Are Americans and Canadians and Europeans any different from the companies when they move abroad for the purpose of obtaining goods and services at rock bottom prices? Are you exploiting others when you pay $10 for dinner at a resturant in Thailand or Mexico (not in the tourist areas!). I can go to Thailand and rent a nice house for a month in Koh Chang and pay my house boy to wait on me hand and foot 24/7 does that make me any better than Microsoft using cheap labor in China? So while you brag about living outside of the US and how medical care is cheaper..it is only cheaper to you using your US or Canadian dollars against a much weaker currency.

With respect to training a doctor for every corner how do you propose we do that? There are about 130-140 medical schools and probably only 40% of them are public. Before we can even address the problem of health care we need to address the problem that there is a shortage of medical schools HERE and we need to train doctors now. Then we can address the next problem which is how to build or exand these schools in the next 20 years so we can put a doctor on every corner. It would be morally wrong to drain anymore doctors from overseas because those doctors are needed overseas as well. Why are there so few schools with medical programs? Because medical programs are money losing programs for Universities but public and private. To open a medical program at a University it cost around 200 MILLION dollars. At the present time 25,000 residents are need a year and there are only 17,000 who are ready to begin their residency. EVERY single doctor that I know and I know alot of them are fustrated, angry and exhaused because there is such a shortage of doctors and EVERY doctor says the patients are the ones suffering. Every doctor I know is in disbelief at the number of hours they are working and again disbelief at the care patients are getting. Add to that reduced payments from the insurance companies and medicare and many doctors are leaving practice because the headaches are not worth the income. I know 3 doctors that just quit in the last 2 years and 2 more that went to work for drug companies. The AMA has written report after report warning that while the health insurance companies are making huge profits, many consumer's can't afford basic insurance and the insurance companies dictate what they pay the doctors. May doctors make 150000-250000 per year and are working 80 hours a week or 2 75,000 a year jobs if you can understand it better that way. To say that the AMA is greedy is pointing the finger at the wrong person. The AMA has said for years if medicare and medicaide don't get it together the payments they give doctors will not even cover administrative costs and guess what..they are right. Along with that we have doctors going bankrupt http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/05/smallbusiness/doctors_broke/index.htm These are the facts Jack. Don't blame the doctors blame the system they are just the rubber on the tire not the wheel.

While I know you think doctors make trillions of dollars I would like you to be so kind as to read this report. I have double checked it for errors and find none: http://benbrownmd.wordpress.com/

So while you scream that I am some kind of rich bitch let me correct you that is not so. What I really despise is people that have no idea of the history of why things are the way they are decide that they are experts on how to fix things when then have not even considered the most teeny tiny details let alone the HUGE fucking details. ANd here is a little more history kid. The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul­dered by a small group of the very richest Americans. The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab. Meanwhile, the bottom 50 percent—those below the median income level—now earn 13 percent of the income but pay just 3 percent of the taxes. These are proportions of the income tax alone and don’t include payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare. (these numbers are from 2007 but remain basically the same today.
The bottom 50 FIFTY percent pay just 3 percent. So when someone talks about balancing the budget on the backs of the poor that is the most fucking stupid nonsense that one can utter. You can't get water out of a rock and the more you take from people in taxes the more they qualify for public assistance. So what we need is for the poor people to step up to the plate and start working triples at Wally world so they can move up to a higher tax bracket and take some of this pain off the rich. Only kidding. What many people fail to realize is that many people who are wealthy got there and stay there not by working 40 hours a week or 60 hours a week they work 80 hours a week and sometimes more. Didn't have enought time to get it done son? Did you have time to sleep? Then you had enough time to get it done.

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

With respect to training a doctor for every corner how do you propose we do that? There are about 130-140 medical schools and probably only 40% of them are public.


The AMA hates it but we already have the INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL CERTIFICATE, that a doctor can go anywhere in the world and be a doctor, even the USA, which the AMA is the gate-keeper.

There are millions of doctor's that would love to come to the USA and practice their craft, as you know rural america is in desperate need to have GP's.

Thanks for the long response at least your human, unlike the majority on this site, .... Bu I feel that the above was the most important issue.

We obviously need to create 100's of new medical schools, but there are 100's of 1,000's of doctors that would love to come to America tomorrow to practice, and they all speak english, as every doctor on the planet learns english in his educational program.


With regards to the economic issues, your obviously one of America's working poor, ...its taken 50 years for our government to destroy the middle class, but its gone and NOT coming back, there is NO solution, except to take what little cash you can and go live in Mexico until you die, if you stay here you will die sooner,

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

For some reason I can not reply to your last post..at your last post so I will write to you here. Let's talk about Cuba and I will share with you what I know.
"I'm sure CUBA & Venezuela are more than willing to manufacturer plenty of doctors, and many other similar country's that don't have an AMA acting as gatekeeper to those wanting to be doctors." At the present time Venezuela gets its doctors from Cuba. Cuba trains the doctors and then trades them for oil to Venezuela. WOW. 100 percent correct. When you go to medical school in Cuba your education is free in exchange for you being traded for oil. So we can't get doctors from Cuba or Venezuela since we don't have oil to trade. I would like you to ready this article with an open mind. Again I have checked the facts with "sources" and the article is correct. If you want to really learn about the real Cuba and not the one shown to the world you can visit Cuba and be smuggled out of the tourist area for a real tour. (you are risking jail and so is your tour guide) but if you want the truth you really need to go see or you can take a look at this website run by Cubans http://therealcuba.com/index.htm look at the videos and you can see how poor the country is. So while Cubans can not even get an Advil people like Michael Moore try to portray this country as great. After you read the article and look at the website tell me if you still feel the same way.

[-] 1 points by learnthis (120) 2 years ago

Worldwide are going to be short AT LEAST 4.3 million health workers (doctors and nurses) vey shortly. WHO came up with that number I believe that number to be very low.

To use money to lure doctors from other countries to ours is immoral and unethical. We have no right to drain resources from other countries. Canada has been trying that trick for years and they can't get enough.

There is a fix for this problem and it is a simple one. Many patients seen by a doctor could be just as well served being seen by a Physicans assistant. However training for a PA takes 6+ years and the pay is about 75,000 when you are done. Revamp the PA program into an intenstive 4 year program so when people graduated college they get a degree that is some thing like a BSPA. Then have them practice for 1 year under a physican and then let them pratice in clinics. I doctor and 15 PAs can do alot of work. Right now no one wants to spend 6 years in college and then make 75g. People in the PA program would have no elective classes like pottery and wind chime making, it would be and INTENSIVE program.

[-] 1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

I agree, I'm saying essentially the same thing when I keep saying GP,

The entire rural america now has a shortage of GP's because all doctors become specialists to pay off their debt,

I'm sure CUBA & Venezuela are more than willing to manufacturer plentyty of doctors, and many other similar country's that don't have an AMA acting as gatekeeper to those wanting to be doctors.

The AMA has limited doctors in the USA since 1910, time to KILL THE AMA.

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

17% of GDP spent by the U.S. on health care with the 9% of GDP spent by much of the rest of the world, noted that the U.S. has fewer doctors and nurses per person, and said, “[t]hat kind of a cost, compared with the rest of the world, is like a tapeworm eating at our economic body.” - warren buffet

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Case Closed: USA spends almost 3 Trillion a year on doctors, at 10% of that cost we could pay for their educations, and put them into service for free to the American Public.

The AMA has lied and cheated the US public since 1910, its time to quit their game.

American Medical Association (AMA) has lobbied the government to highly limit physician education since 1910, currently at 100,000 doctors per year,[109] which has led to a shortage of doctors[110] and physicians' wages in the U.S. are double those in the Europe, which is a major reason for the more expensive health care.[111]

An even bigger problem may be that the doctors are paid for procedures instead of results.[111]

AMA has also aggressively lobbied for many restrictions that require doctors to carry out operations that might be carried out by cheaper workforce. For example, in 1995, 36 states banned or restricted midwifery even though it delivers equally safe care to that by doctors, according to studies. The regulation lobbied by AMA has decreased the amount and quality of health care, according to the consensus of economist: the restrictions do not add to quality, they decrease the supply of care.[109][112] Moreover, psychologists, nurses and pharmacologists are not allowed to prescribe medicines.[clarification needed] Previously nurses were not even allowed to vaccinate the patients without direct supervision by doctors.