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Forum Post: Tariq Ramadan: The question to ask is if the West is ready for Arab democracy

Posted 5 years ago on Jan. 26, 2013, 8:49 p.m. EST by GirlFriday (17435)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

If you are unfamiliar with Tariq Ramadan, this is a link to his website and an article from June of 2012.

Some call him the “Martin Luther of Islam,” while others see him as the “most dangerous man in Europe.” In 2008, Britain’s Prospect and the US Foreign Policy magazines ranked Swiss-born Islamic scholar of Egyptian descent Tariq Ramadan number eight on their list of the world’s top 100 contemporary intellectuals.

The interview is here

In your book “Islam and the Arab Awakening,” you particularly focus on the question of whether it’s wrong to consider recent events in the Arab world to be revolutions or whether they are more uprisings that are being manipulated and, to some extent, controlled from all sides, not just from the West. Can you please elaborate on this?

I never used -- from the very beginning -- the concept of spring or even revolution, because revolution means much more to me than what we are witnessing. … What we are now seeing on the ground in Egypt and Tunisia, expecting that this movement will change everything -- it’s not happening. All this perception -- that nothing was known by the West and the revolutions came all of a sudden, out of nothing -- was not true. We have facts now and they confirm what is now happening in Syria. We know that Freedom House, Albert Einstein Institute, the State Department in the [US] but also many [other] institutions and international institutions ... trained people to push towards what they were calling the “uprising” in the Middle East.

Yep, I went ahead and pulled that out so I could skip the ketchup posts. That's right. I'll just go ahead and do this one too.

A number of the groups and individuals directly involved in the revolts and reforms sweeping the region, including the April 6 Youth Movement in Egypt, the Bahrain Center for Human Rights and grass-roots activists like Entsar Qadhi, a youth leader in Yemen, received training and financing from groups like the International Republican Institute, the National Democratic Institute and Freedom House, a nonprofit human rights organization based in Washington, according to interviews in recent weeks and American diplomatic cables obtained by WikiLeaks.

Great got that covered.

If you are still playing ketchup, please also read this :Revolution, Elections, and Betrayal: Hard Lessons from Egypt

ElBaradei called for a second round of protests on top of the death sentence verdict handed out to 21 football fans. Link It's all allegedly under control..

Am I missing anything? Oh, yeah. Agreement between Egypt and IMF to be renegotiated

So, there I was reading and I came across two articles Egypt’s Transition Needs Some Quiet U.S. Help and On Revolt’s Anniversary, Egypt Needs Economic Miracle

and as always the oil

and I came to the conclusion: No, Ramadan the West is not ready.
Just ask them

So, why so quiet on the second anniversary?



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[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

isamists elect islamists why would we support that?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

What? Say again.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 5 years ago

is there some sort of disagreement on the fact that islamists elect islamists? kind of how right wing christians elect michele bachman it was a nice idea that some sort of secular democracy could emerge from egypt but lets be serious here it was never going to happen. come on take a look at turkey it is far removed from being the secular republic of the 20's and 30's http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/06/10/turkey-continues-its-irrevocable-slide-to-an-islamic-theocracy/ so yeah please speak.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Underneath religion is cash. Bachmann is a great example. The military stepped in to assume control quite nicely, yeah? When has the IMF ever brought loans without special conditions? There is a very real fear that what has been nationalized will be privatized. It is not uncommon for two (or more) groups that have nothing in common to unite and defeat a common enemy.

Turkey has protests taking place because the first NATO Missiles are on the border. I believe they arrived yesterday, or maybe the day before. Many of the people no longer want to pursue membership with the EU. Further, many of the people are still ticked off because the constitution was altered. So, Turkey has it's hands full at the moment especially with a lot of Syrian refugees.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 5 years ago

The great contribution of religion has been its power to crush the human spirit, through dogma, which is in itself the antithesis of the divine.

There have been exceptions to this rule, MLK, Ghandi and DKAtoday, for example, but I still think they and people like them are the exception that proves the rule.

More on topic - I don't think the US has been a promoter of true democracy anywhere in the world since WWll., not even here in the US.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Awww come on, Gypsy.....you're not buying this? http://www.iri.org/

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8719) 5 years ago

OMG!!!! Now I've seen everything!

[-] 0 points by mideast (506) 5 years ago

What scares me is what "Arab Democracy" is

1000 years ago the pope was elected and we had centuries of wars sparked by a desire for a "catholic caliphate"
Mary burned 250+ protestants in England
England attacked the Holy land
Thousands of Jews were burned in Span in the 1400s

How will the muslim brotherhood in Egypt protect its minorities?
It took the catholic church 1500+ years to stop violently conquering the world & killing people of other faiths. Muslims have killed 11,000,000 - OF OTHER KINDS OF MUSLIMS - in just the last 60 years.
How will Muslim leaders lead away from war and hate and vengence?
How will Muslim leaders lead away from using the Quran as a blueprint for world conquest a n oppression?

certainly America is not perfect -
our crazies
teach that the more guns the better,
the earth is 6000 years old,
our president is not an American,
and a woman should not control her own body
but most of them don't kill people just because they disagree

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

I just want to make sure that I heard you correctly. You said that you were against labor rights and strikes.

You are against women's rights.

You are pro oil and possibly pro multinational banks. You completely stand for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Further more, you are aware of the Entebbe agreement.

Get back to me when you're ready to engage in actual dialogue. I dislike copy pasta.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33641) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

GF - I have been Missing You - ( BTW ) good sound off.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Missed you, too. Thank you.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33641) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Check this out - thimk about it for a bit as it is kinda out there:


[-] -2 points by DeathsHead1 (-111) 5 years ago

So we as a movement should embrace Islam?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Where did you get that from?

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33641) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

So, why so quiet on the second anniversary?

I must plead illness - but liked your post.

If I get the gist of it - the revolution has been hampered by western influence ( wow rare occurrence that - Hey? ) Being that communications there are even more restricted then they are here - very few individuals there have anything approaching an accurate understanding of the world outside of their own neighborhood.

Hope for us all lies in the communications we can do over the internet.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

I hope you're feeling better and thank you. I wasn't meaning you D.

Orchestrated/sabotaged and what looks like economic coercion.
IDK, I think they have a pretty good grasp of what is going on.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33641) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

I know ( you were not tasking me ) - I just had to add my perception of part of the problem. Thank you for the well wish - but today is a nasty day among 365 nasty days - noticeable mainly for the different areas of extreme nastiness - otherwise no different then any other. {:-])

And I would say that some very well might have a pretty good idea - but - now play telephone to get the news out. You ever try that a circle of like ten people - the 1st person whispers something to the 2nd and so it goes around the circle - did you get something back that sounds remotely like what you 1st sent out? Now have groups spreading information to thousands.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 5 years ago

Sure, but the great thing is that most of the information is easily found from different sources.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33641) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Yep - all you really need is an internet connection - but if word of mouth - then patience and follow-up verification from other wide spread sources.